Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]


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Post Post #725 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:58 am

Post by northsidegal »

Votecount 1.18


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nomnomnom (), Eve (), acryon (), The Limit Does Not Exist ()
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SausasaurusRex (), Karnage (), GuiltyLion ()

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-03 00:18:59).
Last edited by northsidegal on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #726 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:58 am

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Post Post #727 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:58 am

Post by Auro »

ugh
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Post Post #728 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:00 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

In post 721, GuiltyLion wrote:I think if Allo scum flips it would be most helpful to get a cop in Skit/Karnage
We don't get any cop shots after a scumflip.

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Post Post #729 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:00 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 720, Auro wrote:
In post 712, GuiltyLion wrote:I have another tack I want to try to reach out to Auro - in a bit
Heyo, just lynch scumz and I will be happy! :P
this is actually kinda where I was gonna go with it

I think the reason I've been getting frustrated (slash occasionally feeling an agenda to your posts) is because you keep saying you don't really care about who is lynched between Eve/Allo, but then engaging me constantly on these fronts of why I suspect Allo and why I don't really suspect Eve, yet it feels moreso to make me litigate every subpoint for why I feel Eve town and why I feel scum Allo instead of it ever seeming to develop your own thoughts on either slot or lead to you pushing the game one way or the other. At a certain point reads right now are all ultimately hunch and guesswork, it's D1, Allo barely gives any content to engage with, and I think a flip will be infinitely more helpful and game-advancing than continuing to try to dive down into the rabbit hole cross-examination of "I feel this because this reason, which I feel because of this further reason, which I feel because of this further further reason".

Every time I try to explain it feels like it just leads to more questions and disagreement from you and I've stopped feeling like it might get you to understand my PoV. It's fine generally aiming to use this topic to sort me, that makes sense and is the main line of the game right now, but you don't seem to be attempting to meet me at all where I'm coming from with a decently strong scumread on Allo and lack of interest in voting/pushing Eve pretty directly as a result, and IMO it does feel more and more like an exercise in pedantry and walls that may entirely all be worthless if and when Allo flips scum.

With the Molla thing as an example - I'm not really scumreading Molla because of that one post, but it feels like you're trying to pigeonhole me into saying that! It just struck me as kinda odd, potentially scummy, and when Eve voted him I could see that making sense from town. By no means was that meant to be a Rigorous Proof of Molla is Scum and Eve is Town for Voting There, it was just my impression/vibes from reading the interaction. Skitter just recently echoed the exact same sentiment, but you're not also drilling her to explain it.

At the end of the day, yeah Molla might be town who was just trying to summarize previously why you said you were fine being off wagon. He might also be scum trying to make Eve look worse and buddy you. I don't know! I slightly felt the latter explanation and vibed with Eve voting there at the time, that's all there is to it. I really can't justify it much beyond that.
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Post Post #730 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:01 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

Can someone sum up the case on Allo for me?

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Post Post #731 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:02 am

Post by nomnomnom »

In post 730, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Can someone sum up the case on Allo for me?

-Smart
I could write a case of the scummy things he did but a more convincing sentence is that ever since he was pushed he has yet to produce a pro-town content or anything that comes close to solving and that should already be enough of a redflag to lynch there on day 1.
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Post Post #732 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:02 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 728, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:
In post 721, GuiltyLion wrote:I think if Allo scum flips it would be most helpful to get a cop in Skit/Karnage
We don't get any cop shots after a scumflip.

-Smart
yes we do? We don't get a hood created, but we do still get a cop shot
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Post Post #733 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:03 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

though you're right in the grand scheme, that means optimizing the wagon on the basis of a scumflip is pointless, so may as well make the people off wagon the people we want to cop if it's a townflip
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Post Post #734 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:03 am

Post by Allomancer »

In post 707, SausasaurusRex wrote:
In post 705, Auro wrote:There is no wifom, her claim is random, scum will take her to LyLo
What makes you so certain about this? Unless I’m missing something obvious.
There's no way the real cop would claim that early. Given Eve's propensity for shitposting, I think it's pretty clear she was joking.
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Post Post #735 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:05 am

Post by acryon »

In post 730, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Can someone sum up the case on Allo for me?

-Smart
Allo just made the perfect case in his last post just a second ago.
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Post Post #736 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:05 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

In post 731, nomnomnom wrote:I could write a case of the scummy things he did but a more convincing sentence is that ever since he was pushed he has yet to produce a pro-town content or anything that comes close to solving and that should already be enough of a redflag to lynch there on day 1.
That doesn't seem like a red flag to me; a red flag would be something that indicates a scum agenda, but I don't see how this helps further a scum agenda.

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Post Post #737 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:06 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

In post 732, GuiltyLion wrote:yes we do? We don't get a hood created, but we do still get a cop shot
We get a traffic analyst shot, which determines if the target can communicate privately with any other living player. Since the sole remaining scum cannot communicate privately with any living player, they can't be found by that shot.

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Post Post #738 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:06 am

Post by Auro »

In post 729, GuiltyLion wrote:I think the reason I've been getting frustrated (slash occasionally feeling an agenda to your posts) is because you keep saying you don't really care about who is lynched between Eve/Allo
I don't see a reason why my not-really-caring about that means I shouldn't question you.

You should treat them as independent things. If you're scum, a reliable way of "catching" you will be my critique about your logical analyses, therefore I pick them apart. If you're town, seeing where you come from would make me feel better.
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Post Post #739 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:07 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 737, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:
In post 732, GuiltyLion wrote:yes we do? We don't get a hood created, but we do still get a cop shot
We get a traffic analyst shot, which determines if the target can communicate privately with any other living player. Since the sole remaining scum cannot communicate privately with any living player, they can't be found by that shot.

-Smart
ah, didn't catch this, my bad
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Post Post #740 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:08 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

In post 735, acryon wrote:Allo just made the perfect case in his last post just a second ago.
Okay, that's fair.

But obviously the case must have extended further back than that.

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Post Post #741 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:10 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

If we do decide to lynch Allo, they should selfhammer.

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Post Post #742 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:10 am

Post by nomnomnom »

You don't need a wallpost about Allo to understand why he's a good lynch today.
Scum agenda is making people go away by being the most silent you can get away with and let people get paranoid with other slots like Eve.
Again there's no one here with an actual towncase for Allo.
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Post Post #743 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:11 am

Post by Auro »

In post 729, GuiltyLion wrote:At the end of the day, yeah Molla might be town who was just trying to summarize previously why you said you were fine being off wagon. He might also be scum trying to make Eve look worse and buddy you. I don't know! I slightly felt the latter explanation and vibed with Eve voting there at the time, that's all there is to it. I really can't justify it much beyond that.
So? My attack here was subtle; that you're assigning more weight to that Molla post rather than a holistic read. Even if it's a D1 read, and both cases are possible, this is still something that pings.

I know you don't know for sure, I'm questioning your judgement :P that it lacks the nuance it should be. And I don't believe I exaggerated your implication from phrasing.

On a general level with high benefit of doubt, it's very hard to solve someone who can come up with legitimate reasoning on any stance they want to pursue, so it's the subtleties to narrow down on then. Yeah, it results in walls sometimes, and comes off pedantic, but that's a non-cost.
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Post Post #744 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:13 am

Post by Auro »

In post 736, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:That doesn't seem like a red flag to me; a red flag would be something that indicates a scum agenda, but I don't see how this helps further a scum agenda.
Eeeeexactly, I'm with Smart here :P

He says scummy sounding things in his towngames. I've lynched him as scum for that. He often gets lynched.

I am surprised that Nomnomnom calls Eve mislynch bait but doesn't see Allo that way.
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Post Post #745 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:13 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 738, Auro wrote:I don't see a reason why my not-really-caring about that means I shouldn't question you.

You should treat them as independent things. If you're scum, a reliable way of "catching" you will be my critique about your logical analyses, therefore I pick them apart. If you're town, seeing where you come from would make me feel better.
it's not that you shouldn't question me, it's just that I'm feeling less and less good about this questioning me actually seeming to ever possibly help you feel better. every time I state anything I feel I'm being subsequently put to task to justify it, and it feels like I'm getting a disproportionate amount of this "picking apart" compared to every other player who you should also being trying to sort, like you don't seem to ever want to pick apart things I want to pick apart.

I also think "logical analysis" only works up to a point, I don't think of mafia as centrally a game about town being logical and scum being illogical, more so a game of town being genuine and scum being disingenuine. Sometimes I just genuinely feel things a certain way even when I recognize logically it totally could be the other way. I'm getting annoyed you can't seem to pick up on my genuinely believing the points that I'm making, and are attacking them more with a lens on finding things to logically nitpick over
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Post Post #746 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:14 am

Post by nomnomnom »

In post 744, Auro wrote:
In post 736, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:That doesn't seem like a red flag to me; a red flag would be something that indicates a scum agenda, but I don't see how this helps further a scum agenda.
Eeeeexactly, I'm with Smart here :P

He says scummy sounding things in his towngames. I've lynched him as scum for that. He often gets lynched.

I am surprised that Nomnomnom calls Eve mislynch bait but doesn't see Allo that way.
Because Eve is more scummy in tone and that has the tendency to make people think "scum" instantly.
She still could be scum ultimately speaking, in this gamestate. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot her right now.
I might compromise on Eve if needed today.
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Post Post #747 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:16 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

like half the time I can see myself agreeing with you, okay this point isn't as ironclad as I want it to be, but then what then? End of the day I still in my gut want to lynch Allo over Eve here and you're not picking up the task yourself to change my mind. You're ripping on reasons to townread Eve, but not filling that void with reasons to scumread her.
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Post Post #748 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:17 am

Post by Auro »

Genuineness reflects in the nuances of logical reasoning. Yeah, I am disproportionately picking apart your slot for now, I'll be doing that to other slots as well. :P
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Post Post #749 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:18 am

Post by The Limit Does Not Exist »

In post 742, nomnomnom wrote:You don't need a wallpost about Allo to understand why he's a good lynch today.
Scum agenda is making people go away by being the most silent you can get away with and let people get paranoid with other slots like Eve.
Again there's no one here with an actual towncase for Allo.
I mean, that sounds like regular lurking to me.

-Smart

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