Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[mastina]

Mastina can't still be calling NSG scum or she needs to die.

I absolutely can, for the reason I mentioned.
If NSG does something, even in a passive way, then she would be town.
So far, NSG has continued to be active in not doing anything. She's posting, but she's not doing. There's no real continuity in her posts, there's no real followthrough to be had in her posting one thing at one time and her posting again at a later time. When I see that continuity, sure, yes, she can be town but right now the idea of townreading nsg is pretty laughable.

In fact, hey, why not ask that to nsg herself.

northsidegal:

being honest with yourself, do you think you have made actions that warrant being widely townread in this game yet?

[mastina]

As scum, the mindset behind a fake hammer is to earn some quick cheap instant towncred; get people to townread you who weren't before, and increase the strength of existing townreads on your slot--sounds like a pretty good deal, doesn't it?

It doesn't prevent other town from using that information, though, and NSG could've easily faked "analyzing the reactions".

And what information have others used from it?
And, is it that easy for her to fake analyzing the reactions? Is it? I don't think it is. If it was easy, then regardless of nsg's alignment I'd have expected to see them. That there haven't been analysis of reactions from her shows that, regardless of her current alignment, it's not easy for her to fake as scum.

[mastina]

Can we like lynch/push jjh?

I really don't want to.
But as per my vote.
You can see my answer there.

I can't in good faith continue to hold onto the hope that past-me was right on that read.
When jjh is doing shit like he's done.
I want to.
I really want to trust my past self.
But no. I can't. I just can't. He's acting like scum and while I realize many people in my game are acting like scum and they can't all be scum.
His scum acts are just on a level of egregious most of the others aren't.

So I can't say no anymore even though I want to so, so desperately.

[mastina]

Mastina you realize you're alienating everyone with your posting style right now, right?

Not until they've already alienated themselves from me.

[mastina]

Why do you post about nsg, but vote for wonderwall? Like why are you not pushing harder on your scum read? I didn't disagree with you about her doing nothing with her fake hammer but the vote change makes no sense at all coming from you.

I will acknowledge that regardless of whether my read here is right on this being scum nsg,

we're not getting an actual lynch on her today

due to people insisting "but it must've been from a town nsg!!!".

^Tell me farside.
Do you approve of vanity voting?
Because voting nsg would be a vanity vote--a vote that couldn't lead to a lynch and would be out there doing nothing.
A vote on Wonderwall can lead to a lynch.
I will vote any scumread who I think can be lynched.
If I don't think they can be lynched, though, that's no reason to drop the scumread. It still warrants mentioning.

[mastina]

mastina has out and out ignored me from the start and it's bugging me.

mastina has been catching up and this was how I caught up even back when you were playing.

I also recall Mastina could really push a read if she feels she is in the right.

Iso me and DON'T skim. No skimming. Read it, start to finish, in its entirety.

And tell me I'm not fucking pushing my reads here.

Dare. you.

[mastina]

go after her because her reads are bullshit and her entirely approach is bullshit and shes sticking to reads from page 1 that are extremely proscum but dont make sense

My reads are, provably, not the same as page one.
I am quite fond of most of my reads and have explained precisely where I am coming from in them.

[mastina]

for the most part.

Why are you so passive aggressive?

Because he's scum.

[mastina]

I actually caught that from my read as well. I noted and asked her about her reads not changing.

Which reads of hers do you think should have changed?

Precisely.
Reads of mine which have had good reason to change, have changed.
Reads of mine which have had good reason to remain the same, have remained.

[mastina]

literally any of them
nsg obvtowned and the read hasnt changed, why?

Well aside from the fact that nsg hasn't obvtowned yet.
There's the fact that my reads have changed, quite provably so.

[mastina]

like it is factually true that there is no path to a win where nsg and rc are both town for scum in this game that doesnt involve trying to call us scum

False.

nsg is no longer in her scum range. mastina is still calling her scum

Because she's not out of her scumrange yet.

i pointed out at the very start of the game that it was an incredibly scum motivated play to go after both of us because we are both the single most likely person to prevent the others mislynch even outside of our general competency as players

And I have a response to that which is just as equally valid now as it was then:

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

[mastina]

If I had 2 day vig shots, I'd shoot RC and mastina right about now. And that would be the most pro-town move in this whole game.

I'd happily trade my life for RC's since we only need two scum dead so the life of one town for the life of one scum? 100% worth it every. single. time.

[mastina]

like he's mildly asked Oka to help him (sheep onto Vecna I guess) and is pretty laid back

This is anything but laid back from RC.

[mastina]

She cannot accuse me of this while playing honestly.

She absolutely can and I am.

[mastina]

I don't actually have a problem with this.
I would suggest the inclusion of SirCakez--you might note that my reason for townreading Vecna is pretty much identical to him. That while I know SirCakez has a strong scumgame and that it's been years since I played with him, that the overwhelming feeling that I get from his aura is that he is town.

With those four as town, who're the five left in the game?
{RC, Shuichi Saihara, Baezu, Lie Ren, GuyInFreezer}.

I can't think of a way this scumlist could be worse.

I can't think of a way you could strawman my post any worse given that you literally cut out the part where I narrow it down further:

So what does that leave?
{RC, Shuichi Saihara, GuyInFreezer}.

[mastina]

This is laughable. A majority of town are united on reads that oppose yours so you're pretending the opposite of what's happening is what's happening.

Except they aren't.
The majority of the town agrees Trojan Horses is town.
The majority of the town agrees We Are Not Helping is town.
The majority of the town agrees Vecna is town.
There is a slightly lower, but still prevalent, majority of the town who agrees SirCakez is town.
The majority of the town agrees Baezu is town.
The majority of the town agrees Molla is town.
The majority of the town agrees Turkey is town.

I'll profess that there's disagreement in regards to the scumreads based off of the above--but my scumreads aren't the majority of my reads. The town is, mostly, in agreement with those reads and I have been very vocal about the above reads.

[mastina]

do you think that 2 out of 9 chance of RC scum, 2 out of 9 chance of NSG scums, and Mastina somehow figured out that both of us were scum at the very start of the game and has never reneged on that read

There is the very real chance, yes.

[mastina]

Mastina: RC is not providing reasons for his reads and is therefore scum
yes this is a very plausible reason for town mastina to push me good job

Yeah and it's invalid...why?

[mastina]

my entire case btw is predicated around mastinas scumread on me being egregiously fake and the fact that she is accusing me of things that every single player in this game knows are at worst nai for me should make it really clear why i feel that way

"My entire case is OMGUS".

[mastina]

if she is in fact doing this out of spite for out of game reasons

You can sell that narrative all you like RC but it will never cease to be a fabrication of yours given that I know my own emotions and for you I have none--zero.
Nadda.
The entirety of my push on you is because I think you are scum.
That's it. There's nothing else to it. I think you are scum, I think your actions are scum, I think your posts this game being manipulative as they are is scum, this one no different.

mastina has never displayed the level of open disrespect towards nsg that she shows towards me so theres a hole in this

I have a scumread on nsg--that's not disrespect; that's

respect

.

scumreading all of gif rc nsg and townreading you guys is just wrong

That is, again,

respect

for the competency of the players in question as both town and scum.

As town, they are underperforming.
As scum, they are hyper-competent and performing incredibly well.
That is the binary truth of the situation. Either they're town underperforming, in which case I am giving them more respect than I should, or they are scum playing at the level they should, in which case the level of respect is precisely deserved. And to reiterate:

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

I don't give a fuck about player skill. Scum are scum, regardless of how good or bad they are at the game. I happen to think this game has more good scum than bad scum, yes, but that's in part because the players who would be 'bad scum' are just so immensely transparently town.

Like, in a game where most people have towntold, more people have towntold than there are town in the game, which is more likely?
That players who have shown no previous strong scum performances suddenly, miracuously, are performing at a whole new level of talent and are miracuously deepscum...
...Or that players who have a known skill for being good at scum, are just being good at scum?

Occam's razor, the latter is far, far, far, FAR more likely than the former.
Which means, yes.
Players like RC, nsg, etc. as scum here.

[mastina]

this is kind of the same thing mastina is doing where you are saying that lack of reasons to support a claim discredits the claim itself even though i am notorious for having few reasons and lots of correct reads

Again, apart from NSG, which claim did Mastina made which she refused to substantiate?

Yeah people keep accusing me of this.

But then if you look at my iso you realize they're full of shit because my reads' reasonings are

incredibly

substantiated.

[mastina]

I think mastina needs to flip at this point for game progression. Her recent posting is just awful and her feud with RC (and everyone really) is super antitown and destroying the thread.

Do tell.

Because I've been giving plenty of reads and reasons and they are anything but antitown to give.

[mastina]

MASTINA WOULD YOU ENDORSE A VECNA LYNCH

Hell no, absolutely not. Vecna is locktown.

The only lynches on your side that I endorse are {RC, GIF, Shuichi}. Very outside chance of Lie Ren.

[mastina]

brb i need to find when she swapped her reads on jormun

Wasn't on Jormun--was on Vecna:

i am really confused by people townreading vecna entrance but ok

I mean. Vecna makes me want to lynch the slot less--his contributions are probably thusfar nai, his content so far is probably neither town nor scum, not outside his scumrange, not clearing him. But like. Gotta admit.

As hypocritical as it is to say this given my stance on nsg. His content sure does make me not want to lynch him, at least right now. Where in spite of me knowing effort != alignment, his content feels like it's worth letting live for longer. So I'd focus more on {RC, GIF, Shuichi}.

Start of the transition.

Unpopular opinion: NSG feels like she's being coached by someone resembling RC and it's bugging me b/c my hydra has RC as town.

Simple solution; you're wrong because RC is scum this game.
It's {nsg, Wonderwall | RC, ?Shuichi?} as the far most likely scumteam at this stage, with outside options of GIF, Vecna, and farside.

but mastina dying was time sensitive
i dont have the energy to fight her for the rest of my life

He's literally fucking claiming scum here by saying "I needed mastina dead here".

Remember that

I am flipping town here

.
RC can try to bullshit it all he wants.
He can try to give excuses for it all he wants.
But I will flip town and then you fucks WON'T let him get away with it or there will be

words

.

NSG is scum; Wonderwall is scum; RC is scum.
Last scum is RC's partner, pool of {Vecna, Shuichi, GIF}. Vecna unlikely, so in Shuichi/GIF, lean Shuichi.

Transitions.

ur literally voting vecna and just finsihed trying to quicklynch them and now you are trying to townblock with them

Honestly I'm at the point where I'm willing to call Vecna town. I know, been years since I played with him; I remember him having a somewhat strong scumgame; the slot was suspicious before he came in and if Vecna's scumgame is somewhat strong then his contributions shouldn't be enough to warrant that townread.

But at a certain point I have to go fuckit, the excuses to hold back on townreading him are exactly that, excuses, that the overwhelming feeling, aura, I get from him is that he is town and that, yes, he should be included in a townbloc. So in actuality,

Awesome.
{Vecna, Trojan Horses, WANH} townbloc

I don't actually have a problem with this.
I would suggest the inclusion of SirCakez--you might note that my reason for townreading Vecna is pretty much identical to him. That while I know SirCakez has a strong scumgame and that it's been years since I played with him, that the overwhelming feeling that I get from his aura is that he is town.

With those four as town, who're the five left in the game?
{RC, Shuichi Saihara, Baezu, Lie Ren, GuyInFreezer}.
I think that Lie Ren is null-at-worst, with a reasonable chance at being town.
I had an early townread on Baezu and I still think that holds.

So what does that leave?

{RC, Shuichi Saihara, GuyInFreezer}.

And I can see either Shuichi or GIF as being RC's scumbuddy. (I technically could see a Shuichi/GIF scumteam but like. This is RadiantCowbells's scumgame here, so. It's a question of finding him and his partner.)

To put that in readslist format:

We Are Not Helping + Trojan Horses (locktown of locktown of locktown)
SirCakez + Vecna (townbloc locktown)

Baezu (weak townread)


Lie Ren (nulltown read)

Shuichi Saihara + GuyInFreezer
RadiantCowbells.

And final read reversal to townread.

[mastina]

I've given up on trying to engage mastina btw

Yeah and that's entirely your fault because I'm entirely willing to engage with you but when you call me scum, call my posting antitown, call me shit, that's entirely on YOUR end, not mine.

[mastina]

oh my god is mastina really catching up like 10 posts at a time

Yes, this is what I've been doing the entire game long.

The only difference between me doing it in the past and now is that there are people online who keep posting.

I'd have finished catching up if people hadn't kept posting by now, but I'm still ten pages behind. I'll get there eventually and then maybe I can eat my breakfast and go elsewhere. (Yes it's 4:45 pm and I've yet to eat breakfast, this game's more important.)

[mastina]

Who am I tunneling??

Well aside from Vecna?

Me.

[mastina]

SirCakez has such a damn linear progression. Not even an ounce of indication that anything ive written at all has has made him even consider changing his opinion

I mean, yes, that's why I'm so fucking pissed at him for being a tunneling asshat but he's not scum from it.

How is this read real

Because SirCakez, like Molla, is painfully transparently obviously town.

And yet SirCakez, like Molla, is stuck in a shitty-ass incorrect tunnel they refuse to break under any circumstance.

[mastina]

Mastina, can you please just cut out the insults from your posts? Yeah, we're all morons and f-holes, all just part of the game.

I'll cut out the insults when they cease to apply or I am warned to stop. Otherwise I have EVERY fucking right to them because I have NEVER ever had a scumgame even remotely similar to this one and have had a MULTITUDE of towngames similar to this one, I KNOW what aura I radiate and I fucking KNOW that this is my towngame so yes. People scumreading me deserve all the insults because they're either scum or fucking morons.

[mastina]

P-edit: that meta is really old. Farside has admitted she is not playing the same way anymore no?

*cough*

I might be biased

since

I admit I am mostly thinking of her from Steven Universe 2

as

that's the game I remember her from

, but like.

I admit

that that's probably

not the best metric

to use

, but it is an amazingly stark contrast that

does bias me

towards thinking she's scum her.

[mastina]

I'm full on SRing mastina now ftr. That farside meta thing is absolutely ridiculous.

It sure is when you decide to ignore the parts where I emphasize and stress that I am well aware it is probably not the most accurate!

[mastina]

you know full well early bad scumreads tilt me

I was aware of no such thing.

Where would I have gained that knowledge?

I've not had a game where I've seen it from you as far as I recall.

[mastina]

Now you post about people tunneling you and not letting you get in reads when that's exactly what you've been trying to do to me?

The difference is readily apparent enough.
Molla has chosen to tunnel on me in exclusion of all other reads.
SirCakez has chosen to tunnel on me and Vecna and is largely excluding other reads.

I will fully, readily, admit--I've never let up on you so much as once.
But what I have done is scumhunted the entirety of the game thread as well, and I've had votes all over the place.
Wonderwall, Amrun/farside, nsg, all have been voted by me 1-3 times this game and I also placed a vote on jjh just recently too, on top of all that.
I've been giving reads on other players in your game and reasons and strong pushes for things I have conviction in--and you are just one of them. You're not someone singled out above all others.

[mastina]

Mastina, scumreads in Christmas are NSG and WW, right?

And farside, and jjh I guess now.

[mastina]

Everything she's saying is disgustingly terrible

You can say this all you like but if you read my posts that aren't on the defensive they are objectively not--almost every single one of my posts is pushing my reads further, explaining my stances more, elaborating on reads, giving reasons, etc.

[mastina]

I'm not really buying mastina as scum but I am also not taking her reads seriously. I also know that if mastina flips scum that RC will never let anyone in this game live it down.

And when RC endgames you, guess what I'm going to say to YOU?

[mastina]

I don't see why this game is spectacularly different from TM2018

Literally night and day different; my play in that game was NOTHING like this.

given that her being town means she is deliberately playing against her win condition two games in a row out of spite towards me

You can sell this as a narrative all you like but I've never once done this. I

repeatedly replacing into games where a player who clearly said they don't want to play with them

I've never done this.
To my knowledge, the one and only player to have said they don't want to play with me ever again, was Firebringer (a stance he's since loosened up on, obv, but it still makes me hesitant to replace/join into games with him).
And I respect that; I avoid replacing into games with him, and I even avoid signing up for games that have him sign up for them before I do--that was the reason why I initially wasn't going to play this game. It was only specifically after I was invited to the game that I joined, because with Firebringer in the game before me I didn't want to /in and cause him to /out even though I wanted to play the game a lot. (Not the only game, either; I avoided the hydra only game for precisely this reason. I really wanted to play, but Firebringer had already signed up before I had a chance to /in, so I didn't want to cause him to /out by /inning myself. Also, didn't have a pre-prepared hydra partner, but that's secondary.)

If anyone else has stated they don't want to play with me again--they've completely and entirely failed to inform me of it because like I said. Firebringer is the only one I know of.

Sure, yeah. Wouldn't surprise me if there were others--but those others haven't told me and if they haven't told me, I can't be faulted for not knowing, now, can I?

[mastina]

Like her push on Farside? Clearly intellectually dishonest. Her push on me / NSG? Clearly intellectually dishonest.

You can say this but I know my own brain and I know my thoughts. Those scumreads are there and the reasons I have given for them are the reasons I have for them. I know my own brain so I know what was in there--you do not.

You can keep pretending that I'm doing something I'm not all you want.

That won't magically make it so.

The only one who knows what I am thinking, is me, and I don't fucking lie about what I am thinking, and I know that those thoughts happened for those reasons.

I can, and have, admitted to being wrong in those thoughts. When I am off-base, I will admit it, either at the time or after the fact. But being wrong in those thoughts, does not mean they didn't occur.

I know for a fact that she is the kind of player who would consider this approach as scum.

Oh do you now.
Then show me an example of me considering this approach as scum; none exist.

I don't want to play in the world where she is doing this

You guys realize this is the definition of manipulative posting, right? You realize that this is literally the language abusers use on those they abuse to justify further abuse, right?

[mastina]

if she is town she knows full well that she has been spite playing. She is not playing to a town win condition, she is either scum in the game or outside of it.

I've done neither.
If we had technology that could beam my brain's thought process to another I could fucking prove it to you.

There is zero fucking spite in my play this game.

I believe you are scum--period.
That's it.
Nothing else.
There's nothing beyond that. Nothing. Zero. You keep inventing a narrative where there is.
But there isn't.
Because I don't care about you. Spite requires that I care--I don't. I really don't. I don't give a damn about you, RC. I respect you. But I don't care about you. Spite requires a level of emotion, investment, I simply put? Don't have. While I objectively respect you, emotionally I have nothing but utter apathy towards you.

You keep on trying to say that I clearly bear ill will towards you, have negative emotions towards you.

None exist.

I will push people who I think are scum, and I think you are scum.

[mastina]

I've cited TM2018 repeatedly as an example of Mastina faking rage as scum btw since it's the most salient example I can think of.

There was zero faked rage in TM2018.

I also can't think of a single example of Mastina calling someone a fuckhole as town so there's that!

I can name at least six games where I've used similar language as town. Want the links to them?

[mastina]

Does anyone in this game think that if she's town she's not pushing me out of spite, that she believes her case on me for "not giving reasons"? Like you can't be town trying to win accusing someone of being scum for something that they are notorious for.

Does anyone in this game think that if I'm town, I'm lying? Does anyone think that I would push out of spite? Does anyone think that as town I don't believe my case?

Does anyone notice that RC's strawmanning my case on him to a single small point that wasn't the crux of the case against him?

[mastina]

Fire this isn't a conversation I have said what I'm saying and it's not changing. I do not believe there is room for Mastina to be both town and playing to win. One or the other.

And yet I am doing both.

What would

you

do if you had a scumread on yourself? Do nothing? Say nothing? Fuck no. You'd know that you need to make it known and push for it hard.

[mastina]

I cannot believe the mastina lynch isn't happening

It's not happening because I am town.

her reads are straight up from a different game

Oh? Do tell.

[mastina]

Right now she's being passive

I get your point, Mastina, but why would you want to lynch her before she has a chance at doing so? Do you think lynch pressure will magically turn her active if town?

Bluntly?

Yes.

I believe that nsg, if under that extra pressure, would indeed magically turn her active if town.

[mastina]

jjh isn't close to being hammered

Pretty much, yeah.

jjh isn't at risk of being lynched.

So I can vote him to make my stance on him known.

[mastina]

Point me to thoughts that look like they took time and effort for farside to make which it feels like she has followed through on and given more on

It was the lack of awareness that you weren't actually lynched. It both looks genuine (and she'd know it if she were scum) and I get the feel it's not something the kind of content scum!farside would produce.

Not exactly what I asked you to give me, but actually.
That's fair.

Enough to place her back to the null pile for now. Not enough for me to do a full 180 to strong townread, but 90 to null is probably enough for now.

[mastina]

{nsg}
{gobble}
{bbmolla}
{mastina, amrun, wonderwall, ddl}
{jjh, elmo}

wonder if i got it in one

You know in hindsight those reads are a lot less terrible than I remember them being.

And actually.

This

is exactly what I was looking from from nsg, so like.

I know it sounds weird, but this IS a full 180 on my read there.

Which would make the readslist for Christmas something like:

Turkey
Molla
nsg

{farside, DDL, Elmo}
jjh
Wonderwall.

[mastina]

Sorry can you elaborate? What does it mean? Town/Scum?

Lurk out in the game you're scum in but play others

And yet, people think I'm scum here when this is the game I am favoring while neglecting literally everything outside of this game.

[mastina]

She is voting for mostly lurkers and went after wonderwall. Town her would push the fuck out of someone she believed was scum with every fiber.

I can push without using my vote farside.

It's pretty disingenuous to call my posts not fucking pushing--fuck, even RC would tell you that I'm pushing him, and that's out of belief he's scum, but I

can't

vote him, he's in the other game, and I only have one vote.
Speaking of,
VOTE: Wonderwall.
This has never stopped being a strong scumread.

personally I'm torn because I'm going off old memories and seeing her like this is almost reading as flailing around.

And to think people went "what the fuck mastina" for me saying this in regards to farside.

You. fucking. hypocrites.

Do you really think this game will have a day 3 with 2 lynches going on and a White Flag vibe going on?

If RC isn't lynched and I am?

Absolutely, yes.

[mastina]

Wait did Mastina hammer JJh?

I'm pretty sure I didn't. He had like 2, 3 votes on him most. He might've gone to L-1 but I'm pretty sure he's not actually lynched.

[mastina]

No jjh only has 2 or 3 votes on them

^

[mastina]

northsidegal: being honest with yourself, do you think you have made actions that warrant being widely townread in this game yet?

yes.

Followthrough on this, do you think they warrant the strength of townread you've been receiving?

And if so, universally-so, or only from specific players?

If from specific players, which ones?

[mastina]

I wonder if Wonderwell are going to vote Mastina now

It certainly wouldn't surprise me!

[mastina]

No one did anything to you Mastina and you're sitting here throwing a tantrum pretending that you're 2015 me abusing everyone until they do what you want.

This is pretty blatant projection considering that this is what RC's doing here.

[mastina]

for the record, regardless of my thoughts on the conclusion of "faking that analysis would or wouldn't be easy for me as scum", this doesn't seem like a valid logical analysis. you say regardless of my current alignment, but if i'm currently town then i fail to see how my lack of whatever you expect as an analysis has any bearing on my ability as scum.

It's simple, really.
If you were scum and the fake analysis were easy, you'd have given it.
If you're town and faking analysis as scum was easy, then it figures it'd be easy to produce for real as town.
There's no such analysis, so either you're scum and faking analysis isn't easy, or you're town and giving real analysis.

Bit irrelevant now since I'm townreading you now, butstill.

[mastina]

So lets me get this straight. She claims wonderwall is scum, says jjh is a town read, barely gives him a day to come back and hammers him.

No?

I did say Wonderwall is scum.
I did say jjh was a townread. Past tense. Past tense.
And I voted him for not being town.

I didn't hammer him.
I voted him, yes, but I didn't hammer him. And I've since moved off, back to Wonderwall.

[mastina]

Yeah I think mastina is scum regardless of flip

I think you're full of shit.

[mastina]

No way on god's green earth Mastina would not check a vc before hammering.

Well aside from the fact that I am in catchup mode, actively catching up and thus unaware of posts made past this point? Like, have zero knowledge of whatever 2789 is until I read it?
Aside from that VERY obvious 'yes way', there's also the fact that last vc had at most 2-3 votes on jjh.

Point me to a vc, while I was reading, that said jjh was at L-1.

...Can't find it?

...Exactly.

[mastina]

Mastina quickhammers and tries to 1v1 me

RC selling the narrative that I in any way shape or form was aware of a possible hammer when it is painfully obvious that no, I am not working with perfect knowledge of what votes are where.

[mastina]

Who the fuck moved to lynch me when my last post was that I was gonna fully reread and be useful again within like 12 hours

Farside voted you and then Mastina lolhammered you despite you not being a scum read for her
Strange am I right

Sure would be strange if that was actually the truth!
What happened is that I said. Over. and over. "My townread on jjh is at this stage just faith in past-me to have been right, but he's making it harder and harder for me to hold onto that".
Over.
And over.
I can fucking quote these posts to show you that.
And one promise later that I had every reason to believe he'd break, I cast a vote on him--believing it to be L-3, L-2, or at the very worst, L-1.

That's something which makes a lot more sense, now, doesn't it?

[mastina]

Mastina's hammer was soooo bad
She has to go tomorrow

Mastina's hammer was not a hammer.

[mastina]

Unless I missed something, this was a flashwagon that occurred after I made the first and only promise I have made to actually work on getting into this game rather than just complaining about how I couldn't

Yes and people think that for some reason I'd be aware of the exact number of votes that flashwagon had, that it'd be exactly 4/5, then would hammer you knowing that it wouldn't cause the thread to close and that I'd be instantly 1/2 lynches town would need to win as scum.

Sure sounds like it makes sense, doesn't it?

[mastina]

Mastina, why the hell did you hammer me

I didn't! I cast a vote on you. Under the impression you didn't have much of a wagon on you. A frustration vote, more than anything else, but also for pressure and as a statement of "okay I am now fine with jjh being wagoned".

[mastina]

If Mastina is town I'm reporting her for playing against win condition btw.

Good luck with that considering that I am 100% playing to win by lynching scum--scum which I happen to think is you.

[mastina]

Mastina voted you for that post
So yeah

Because it was an empty promise and jjh wasn't at immediate risk of being lynched as far as I knew.

[mastina]

Mastina should be EXTREMELY aware that posts like that come from scum!me and then I don't deliver on them
and posts like that also come from town!me and then I deliver on them

Yes to the first, no to the second. I don't think I've ever seen you make those posts as town, this many times in a game. Maybe you've made them once, then delivered.

But this was like your fifth time making that promise--why wouldn't I believe that's scum-you not delivering?

[mastina]

I'll claim this again
I'm in a hood with someone on Christmas
So cross game interaction is possible

And I'll claim this again.
I don't believe this and won't until I see who claims it.

[mastina]

Incredibly I am known for freaking out and OMGUSing people as town!

Since when? That's the antithesis of the RC I'm familiar with.

[mastina]

I can't actually read Mastina and just assume she is town

Because it is an assumption that is disproportionately likely to be the truth.

Also, how to read me is really really easy.

Lurking, not contributing, stunted, stilted, artificial, precise, calculated, calm, cool, posting? Scumastina.

Hyperposting, pure chaos, randomness, flow, emotional posting?
That's me as town.

It works 100% of the time.

[mastina]

Ok but real talk if JJH is town that means Mastina is lockscum from my point of view and she hammered because she saw the writing on the wall.

OR.
I voted someone who I had good reason to believe was scum AND good reason to believe wasn't currently already being wagoned to L-1.

[mastina]

BBmolla is town I think, but I could be fooled

lol dude you've seen my scumplay
I'd be a lot more miserable if I was scum here

And yet you scumread me when this is doubly applicable to me.

[mastina]

If there's daychat I can't imagine what the scum thread looks like right now lmao

"Score! mastina lolhammered and we get a free mislynch on her D2 which gives us a free pass to lylo and allows us the chance to instantly win!"

[mastina]

Can you please just accept this quickhammer as your contribution to scum win condition and shut the fuck up already because nothing you do is going to change anything but it will make everyone enjoy this game less.

I am town.
Period.
I am not going to let my fucking game go into lylo when I have any iota of a fight left in me.

I did not intend to hammer jjh. I did mean to vote him, obviously, but I did not intend to hammer him. If I did, then, yes, that is very pro-scum. An accident to put the town in a disastrous spot.

So what.

You want me to accept that I'm going to be the D2 mislynch and instantly put my game in lylo, no fight back?

Fuck. no.

I'll go down kicking and screaming because I don't want to fucking lose. I want to fucking WIN and that requires doubling down on scumhunting--not giving up on it.

[mastina]

Because SirCakez, like Molla, is painfully transparently obviously town.

I'm failing to see this. His desperation to get a lynch somewhere doesn't square.

There are too many players who had that mindset for them to all be scum and I don't think that mindset in of itself is scum-indicative.

That mindset coupled with other factors, sure, yeah, but those factors are absent from SirCakez.

[mastina]

You caused me to want to stop engaging with your constant flaming, cursing and general aura of anger

Hey guess when that happened?
IT HAPPENED WHEN YOU FUCKING SCUMREAD ME.

Gee, wonder why?

When all you do is scream at people there's no point trying to reason.

I've done PLENTY beyond 'screaming'.

[mastina]

You wrote wiki articles on scumplay IIRC and you think it's easy to sort you?

Considering I wrote a fucking flowchart to let people read me, AND that I've

never

had ANY scumgame remotely close to this one and yet several towngames are similar and I KNOW what aura I exude and KNOW it's a town aura?

YES.

Sorting me should be easy.

[mastina]

Mastina stop fucking posting

The moment people stop scumreading me, deal. I'll stop posting when people stop fucking scumreading me. Done deal, easy.

Good luck getting people to stop scumreading me.

[mastina]

Is mastina just ignoring that jjh is hammered and flipped town

Considering I read the thread as I go?

That this is immensely obvious and WIDELY public knowledge?

No, the answer is I didn't know jjh was hammered and didn't know he had flipped town. 2930 didn't exist to me until right now when I was reading it, and 2931 won't exist until I read it, and I will read it after I read this. Until then it doesn't exist. Because I haven't read it.

I can't know about something I haven't read.
And I am reading as I am going on.

The post I comment on is the furthest I've read.

With how fast this game is moving.
It's literally impossible to do anything else.

[mastina]

Is mastina just ignoring that jjh is hammered and flipped town

Yup. Which is weird since she was responding to "latest posts" during catchup earlier, no?

Um.

No?

By the time I was replying to the "latest" posts, they were no longer the latest posts.

I've been catching up since, what, noon? It had to have been around then, I woke up before noon and this game was one of the first things I came to, and I've been catching up constantly, consistently, but in spite of my efforts to catch up, for the longest time I was

consistently

ten pages behind. Sometimes even eleven! By the time I reached 108, you were already on 118. I'm closing distance

now

, but you have my exact fucking point of reference, via seeing what post I am quoting.

[mastina]

If Mastina is town she's a fuckwad who should be banned for this game

And people don't think RC is being manipulative...why?

[mastina]

mastina is open wolfing at this point lmfao

Uh huh.

Keep telling yourself that.

And then, postgame.

Admit.

You. fucking. don't. know. fuckall of SHIT. about how I play.

Because this is my towngame and the more you say that I'm scum the shittier you'll look when I flip town.

[mastina]

RC who is mastina's buddy?

Good question!
It's almost as if I have none!

[mastina]

I'm not ur abuser u called me scum on page 5 and quickhammered a town and I'm scumreading u for it shut up mastina

I never called you an abuser.
I said you used the same language as an abuser--which is objectively true. Because abusers can and do say stuff like, "I don't want to live in a world where you ('you' being their abuse victim) X", e.g. "I don't want to live in a world where you leave me".

That is literally the language abusers use. That doesn't mean you're one, sure--but it does mean you're using the language of one. And that language is, in a word: manipulative.

[mastina]

Also fuck you to hell comparing me to a domestic abuser.

I did no such thing.
I said you used the language of one, because you DID. Nothing you can say or do will change what you posted and nothing you can say or do will change that abusers use the language of that post. It's just facts.

I made no comparison of you to be one. Nor should I, nor would I. Because my point was that you're using manipulative language. Not laying an accusation to you.

[mastina]

The more I read this, the more I realize that in TM, the anger was really towards RC and not me from mastina.

I beg your pardon?
There wasn't anger in team mafia.

I said I had a scumread on you.
It was just that. Purely a scumread.

[mastina]

Mastina doesn't get to call me a domestic abuser when there was no conflict from me to them before they started one

The 'conflict' you're referring to is me having a scumread on you.

Unless someone is confirmed town, I am allowed to scumread anyone. There's no rule of mafia saying I can't scumread someone who will, via being a scumread, use manipulative language to consistently discredit me and put me down.

I am sticking to the facts here; you're the one who keeps inventing fictional naratives.

[mastina]

@Mastina, why did you hammerjjh?

I didn't. I voted jjh under the impression he was nowhere near a lynch. That I'd be anywhere from L-3 to L-1, that there was only one or two other people voting him, maybe three.

[mastina]

Could you and Mastina seriously NOT do this? It’s making the game unfun.

I'm not the one doing it. I'm producing content, explaining reads and defending myself.

[mastina]

his early posts felt quite genuine
and I really like his engagements over the last ~20 pages - he's had exactly the same thoughts as me re;the mastina mess

See, I feel like scum would also have the same thoughts, and even then this is such an easy thing to posture with. A lot of his gameplay seems to be that - commentary on the game/players without what I see is legitimate analysis.

Pretty much this, yes.

The push on me is incredibly pro-scum.
Not all of the pushers on me are scum; SirCakez, FB, and Molla all are town.
But that doesn't mean that the push against me is protown; it's still by and large scumdriven.

[mastina]

Mastina, be chill my lady. You cannot be lynched rn. Your game is in night

And what happens the moment my game isn't in night if I don't defend myself, hmmm?

[mastina]

It just seems that you and her had some falling out during TM

If any occurred it was on RC's end.
Like I said.
I bear him no ill will. I respect him. I am utterly apathetic about him and don't care about him, sure, yeah--but that's not due to a falling out, that's just utter apathy towards him. I respect his talents, I just don't care about them. Nothing he has done at any time. Not winning Paragon. Not Team Mafia. Nothing. Has changed anything about him because he's dead neutral to me. He's a 'notable nothing' to me. That is to say, he is notable for his achievements and I am aware of what those achievements are, but he's like, I dunno. He's like Barrack Obama to me--you could replace Obama with any celebrity here who is notable for having made achievements, and the effect is the same. In that he's not someone I know, he's not someone I care about, he's someone I know a fair bit about due to his accomplishments, but I hold zero emotions towards him personally and zero emotions towards his accomplishments.

The narrative that I do? Is entirely of his own invention--it doesn't exist on my end. Not at all.

All that exists on my end is that I think he is scum, and he has declared that to be a cardinal sin against him as a person.

[mastina]

You’re hyper aware of everything.

Since when?

This sure is news to me!

I'm hyperaware, yes, but not of everything--I have blind spots. Much fewer as scum, notably, too!

[mastina]

Frankly I do not buy that Mastina didn’t know it was hammer

Frankly you're wrong and when I flip town you'll fucking know I wasn't fucking lying.
I didn't know.

[mastina]

Yes and people think that for some reason I'd be aware of the exact number of votes that flashwagon had

You seem to be posting while not reading new content. So how would you know if there was a vote on someone or not between the post you're currently reading and the actual current post?

Yes! Precisely! How would I know if there's a vote on someone between the post I'm reading and the current post?

I wouldn't.

So I wouldn't have known about jjh being L-1.

Ergo you proved I did not intentionally hammer jjh.

[mastina]

Ok. Please explain why RC would lie about this?

Multiple reasons.
1: To dissuade the notion that this game is mountainous and thus, that the scum MUST have an edge to compensate for this clear power.
2: To stern up further paranoia about probably-nonexistent cross-game plays/moves.
3: To allow for easy fabrication of a talk between him and a scumbuddy in my game.

[mastina]

Can you link/quote a game, where Mastina played exactly like this as scum?

None exist.

In contrast! MULTIPLE games where I've played like this as town exist.

[mastina]

But you were commenting on stuff in real time

If by 'real time' you mean 'ten pages behind', then yes.
I wouldn't call that commenting on stuff in real time tho.

[mastina]

Please RC, Mastina. You need to both stop now or I will ask Jingle to lock this thread. I’m dead serious about this.

There is no 'mastina' here.
I am giving reads, reasons, and defending myself.

RC is telling me to shut up.

[mastina]

i don't remember if u read molla as town, but has molla ever claimed to know u attentively to know how u play.

Heck if I remember but after this game-long tunnel on me he sure as fuck has no right to ever claim it ever in any game in the future ever given how atrociously terrible his tunnel on me at the expense of everything else is.

[mastina]

There's a huge difference between telling someone to shut up and saying that they are a domestic abuser.

Yeah and I never said you were a domestic abuser.
I never implied it.
I never said it even remotely.

I said the language you used was the same language domestic abusers use--this is a fact.
That's not calling you a domestic abuser, that's not implying you're a domestic abuser, that's a comment on the language type you're using being manipulative, and yes, your language this game

has

been manipulative, the whole game long.

[mastina]

mastina, stop the fake anger for awhile and just apologize to RC for saying he was acting like a domestic abuser.

I can't apologize for an action I never took. And since I never said he was acting like a domestic abuser, I never implied it either, and the intention of my posts have multiple times been clarified, there's not anything to apologize for?

Like, what do you want me to say, "I'm sorry you thought that I was saying you were acting like a domestic abuser"? Because like. I never fucking said he was acting like a domestic abuser, I never fucking said that he was a domestic abuser, and I never fucking implied either of those things, either.

[mastina]

Comparing RC to any kind of “abuser” is beyond uncool, especially to anyone who knows what he’s been through.

I didn't compare him to one, either.
I didn't call him one.
I didn't say he was acting like one.
I didn't compare him to one.
And I didn't imply any of those.

Pointing out that the language he use is the same language an abuser uses, isn't doing any of those. It is calling his language manipulative, which it is.

[mastina]

Why are you so confident on Cakez town?

Well basically--he radiates an aura where I understand where he is coming from, see how his thoughts have developed, understand them, think those thoughts come from a town-oriented mindset, his earlygame had a casualness and naturalness to it which didn't feel force and until the "end the day" posts he was basically spotless for producing high-quality content which came from a genuine spot, even if it wasn't content I wholeheartedly agreed with.

[mastina]

Hint: your scumpartner told you it was L1 and to hammer.

This would work as a justification if not for the fact that I haven't checked my private topics once since logging in, except just before coming to this thread (in part because I log in by refreshing my private topics tab)--that was the last time I checked my PTs and not once have I been to that subforum since.

[mastina]

mastina can you please refrain from posting as you catchup? no offense but your catchups take forever and bloat the thread and deny true real time interactions which is like quintessential 2020 ms.net meta

like i managed to eat lunch, watch some lectures, take a nap, and re catchup on this entire thread and you still haven't finished your catchup yet
-oka

You also haven't posted anything from said catchup now have you?

[mastina]

given you're just looking for some shitty label to throw on me

I've multiple times said that I did no such label to you.
That you continue to insist I did is on you, not me.
I never labeled you as an abuser.

[mastina]

Fyi Mastina, I’ve had plenty of arguments with RC and the way he has handled them, is the absolute antithesis of what an abuser does.

Yes because he isn't one, that is readily apparent enough but this is a nonissue given I never called him one.

[mastina]

What power would scum need against two neighbors? That’s barely any town power.

Presumably, the fearmongered cross-game kind.

[mastina]

Then, just straight up call it “manipulaive” then and don’t compare it to what any kind of abuser does.

I did call it manipulative--I have been calling it manipulative. I've been calling it manipulative the whole game long, and the post triggering it was an extraordinarily other level of sheer manipulation, and the first word to come to my mind to describe that type of extraordinary out of the ordinary beyond all normal level of manipulation, manipulation, was the type of language an abuser would use, to make a point--that abusers use incredibly high levels of manipulative language, and that RC was using incredibly high levels of manipulative language.

I will apologize for an unintended interpretation of my language--that's fair enough. I can be sorry for making a comment that was triggering because it was misidentified as calling someone abusive. I can apologize for that, yes. Sure. Consider this an apology for that.
I can't apologize for something I never did.

[mastina]

you have private topics? elaborate

Yes I always do. Review topics, mod topics, as things outside of games, and obviously I can have game private topics, but even if said topics are fully public knowledge I wouldn't be able to discuss them in this game because I have none from this game and thus the ongoing game rule applies. Saying, in general, "I checked my PTs", is fine, elaborating any past that is not so this is as much as I am legally allowed to disclose.

[mastina]

And with that I am caught up and finally.
Eight hours later.
Leaving the thread.

[mastina]

Mastina was really obv town especially after the RC-mastina flare up. I would still endorse a vig shot on her slot tho.

I mean, yes.
Contrary to what SirCakez was insisting: no, I do not AtE regardless of alignment--I don't AtE as scum at all because I can't get mad at people for having right reads on me; it's literally impossible.

I can be mad at people calling me scum for things that are due to real-life rather than any game reasons,

can

, in theory, but even there, it's been...honestly I think at least two or three years since I have gotten mad at someone for scumreading me for those reasons as scum, and nowadays because activity actually

can

be an alignment indicator because I am far, far less active as scum I don't think I can even be mad at

those

accusations because while they used to not be true at all, now they actually kinda are so I'd recognize that and be unable to get riled up about it because I'd know it was right.

But I digress--my point was that, no, contrary to what was said: I've never lost my temper like this as scum, never. Not once.
This game was far, far, far from the first where I've lost it as town. Alisae vs Pine, RC's Undertale, Tatsuya Kaname's Anime UPick King-Sized, Ank's Restless Spirits, and probably more, all contain similar examples.

And when it happens--sure, I would endorse a vig on my slot, too. Not a lynch, I'll fight to the death tooth and nail every step of the way against a lynch, but a vig, not gonna deny that's deserved.

The problem with mastina was that she was being negative utility as town due to the RC-mastina fight.

I mean I did say at the beginning that I didn't want to push RC for specifically that reason; I wanted to leave him alone. But when people kept pushing me, my response is to push my reads, ALL of my reads, because with the chance that I'd be lynched I need to get my voice, my reasons, my reads, out there for all to see and also doing so is my best weapon to dissuade people from following through on the lynch.

If I keep pushing my reads, there's a chance that people see my logic, my reasons, and understand that they're coming from town. And if it fails, if I do end up lynched, then my reads are out there for all to see.

She almost always is negative utility to town as of late
I don't think ive seen her be positive utility for town in at least 6 games.

This is the first game in 2020 where I haven't been incredibly positive utility. To wit, I played a crucial role in the TM 2020 town win; I had incredibly accurate reads in Krazy's Anime UPick while I was alive; I basically singlehandedly led the D1 lynch of scum in the recent MBoS game. Now admittedly, small sample size of three as those are the only completed towngames beyond this one this year, but overall in 2020 I am quite happy with my contributions to the towns thankyouverymuch.

This game is an obvious disappointment in that front, yes; I have regrets. It's a tarnish on the otherwise quite fine record I had built. The first failure of the year.

I doubt it'll be the last failure of the year, sure, but saying I've been nothing but one is quite objectively false.

She almost always is negative utility to town as of late

Disagree. She had very good solves. I don't think her fights were wholly her "fault" but no further comments on this

Eh. My solves were acceptable this game, but not in any way remotely good. I named many town players, correctly, as town, when those townreads were contentious.
TH, SirCakez, Baezu, Vecna, and We Are Not Helping were all good townreads; jjh, Turkey, and Elmo/Nero were all good townreads; Cephrir was a good scumread.
But while my read on Lie Ren wasn't exactly locktown, I don't think I can in good faith claim any credit for a good read on that slot and to the contrary would have to say it's a wrong read because while Lie Ren was never a strong read, for the vast majority of the time Lie Ren was north of the nullline.
I didn't get either scum on my own side of the game, erroneously townreading both Molla and the NM slot--while I had the NM read degrade later, it never moved south of null and was at null if you're being generous to me by the time of my replace-out so I missed there.
I didn't have good reads on nsg, Wonderwall, or farside; I didn't have good reads on the Titus slot (by the time it was Titus, I was out of the game, mind you; I did townread Titus once I saw her but by then I was out of the game so that doesn't count), and obviously on RC.

As far as read accuracy goes, I think that comes out to be not worse than random, but it's definitely not better than random by any margin that would denote being 'good'. I think my reads were

acceptable

, and I did have a

fairly

good townbloc. But my reads weren't good.

And yes, I am also of the opinion that the fights were not entirely my fault, but I fully admit I'm not exactly blameless either. Sure, not entirely my fault...but still

mostly

my fault. Mostly my fault is still fault enough on my end for it to have been a failure.

To put it another way. I said this and I hold by it:

they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

I always strive to try and put on a Paragon-level performance. I am obviously not a paragon, yes, but I always strive to try and be as good as one. (Who wouldn't?) I try, and yet by my own metric I had the largest of large failures;
Incorrect scumreads on my slot rattled me and that is a failure on my part.

I wish that they had resolved whatever their issues were from TM, before this game. Wtf happened in TM anyway to cause this massive blow out?

Beats me.
I have zero issues with RC from TM; any issues in an RC-me dynamic from TM thus originate from him because there's literally zero from me.
I have never held issue with RC and I had no issues with RC this game.

I incorrectly scumread his slot--that's literally it. He was a scumread. The invented narrative of there being some sort of carrythrough on my part was from RC and simply put? It doesn't exist on my end. Maybe it exists on his end, maybe he has a beef with me, but hey. Like I said. I don't have any clue because it's literally not anything on my end. I hold zero emotions towards RC negative or positive. He's just another player to me, no different than any other. Well, different in that I hold respect for his talents, in that he is better than 95+% of the site regardless of his alignment, but I don't treat him any different than any other player.

[mastina]

She basically hates RC so much that she basically started shitting on my slot because they assumed I am RC.

Same thing happened there that happened here, and that's literally it. I thought you were scum in Team Mafia; I was wrong.

I thought RC was scum here; I was wrong.

Those wrong reads have zero emotions in them.

[mastina]

She basically hates RC so much that she basically started shitting on my slot because they assumed I am RC.

Same thing happened there that happened here, and that's literally it. I thought you were scum in Team Mafia; I was wrong.

I thought RC was scum here; I was wrong.

Those wrong reads have zero emotions in them.

Like literally, if I were able to telekinetically beam my thoughts and emotions to you.

You'd see that the only emotions I am feeling are some form of negative ones at not being believed at not having the emotions.
I am not a fucking liar, I don't fucking lie, and when I fucking say that I have no emotions, it means I had no fucking emotions, but when people call me a liar, well surprisingly, guess what; I gain emotions at that because I know I am not one.

[mastina]

I don’t want to think about a Nancy/Auro hydra that drew scum. It would never die

It would if I was in the game and not their scumbuddy.

[mastina]

I will say as someone who has seen u death tunnel people a dozens times. Everytime I see it, it looks personal. Like you won't reconsider it because of some personal animosity. I don't really know if ur telling the truth here so I am just gonna assume u are. But u probably should rethink ur approach if ur gonna hyper focus a player because ur death tunnel pushes don't look completely like its just a read.

Yes well. This I think is probably legit just due to the fact that I am incredibly blunt. I don't hold back from speaking my mind, even if it'd be smarter to do so. Part of my autism I suppose. But I don't really know what I can do to have a fix.

When I have a really strong read, what am I supposed to do? Not push it? The stronger a read, the more I want to push it. This game I had really really strong reads really really early. And I cared this game. I really really cared. I invested in it--I invested more into this game than the entirety of my site-wide presence anywhere else. With that level of investment, with that level of care...I don't know how to tone it down. I don't know how to, when I am that invested, when I am that "into" a game. To not push.

When I am less invested, when I am less "into" a game, sure, yeah. I can very very very easily not push, comes easy. Like, there was a time in this game, however brief, where I wasn't doing much. A brief, like, half-week period, where I was a little more distanced from the game and in that state, I didn't do much. But once the fire was reignited, I

couldn't

give less.

[mastina]

I do agree that Mastina needs to watch her language more, ie: the whole abuser language thing.

On that note; yes that is something I regret.
I may not know what language is too far to use--but when someone says "hey, that's not cool", then the language was too far to use.

To give an example of that--say I was unaware of the stigma behind the word 'retard' and used it--when someone would inevitably call me out on it, saying, "hey, that's not cool", then that language being used was something to regret, something to note to try and avoid, and even though I wouldn't instantly understand why the word 'retard' was unacceptable (this is perhaps not the best of best examples because it's a word I

do

understand why it's unacceptable, but this description is quite apt because there are plenty of things that I DON'T understand why they are unacceptable and, yes, an explanation for WHY they are unacceptable is something that does do good), I

should

have the capacity to note, "okay, that's not a word to use anymore" and to feel bad about having used it even when not having known of the stigma behind it.

[mastina]

Its that u don't look for any evidence

Eh. This is a sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I put a lot of effort into looking for evidence. Other times I mostly just wing it on gut combined with relying on others' perspectives to refine things.

or flat out ignore anything else that could contradict it.

This I don't do though. If I did, then my reads wouldn't have changed at all--but they did. The reads that didn't change had good reasons to have not changed. That's not "ignoring anything contradicting the read", that's, "all the evidence is supporting the read".

[mastina]

Like look back at how many successful lynches I had this game, once I said something was scum it became tainted

To be fair--you said I was scum.
That was your mistake.

Saying I am scum when I'm not, will invoke an entirely different reaction than saying Not_Mafia is scum when he is.

One will be tainted because it's ME you're calling, wrongly, scum; one will become sheepable because it's a nothingness slot you're, correctly, calling scum.

[mastina]

Also sorry if anything I said upset you Mastina I was literally just trying to push your lynch through

Oh you being scum erases all the hard feelings, literally everything about me being upset about you was being so sure you were town and yet you having that tunneled scumread on me. You being scum gives that action the explanation that you were just scum, playing to your wincon, because coasting off of a tunnel on my slot meant you didn't need to give reads on many others.