Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[GuiltyLion]

Actually there was that one earnest moment where I felt Molla eas genuinely trying to resolve the Allo wagon and not just grandstanding

Maybe Karnage would be a better lynch. The progression of null->town->null of his Allo read feels disingenuous

[acryon]

i don't get your reasoning there Auro - maybe i'm not on your realm of thinking but could you dumb it down for me with more "no u"s?

nomnom is a strange player who might be a scum person in this game of mafia

Also worth highlighting that Eve was picking up on potential scum nom early and that has also made me revisit it, more townpoints for Eve here

Let's not give Eve townpoints for that before we know Nom's alignment.

I do agree that we're just in a tough spot here. We have several people with very little actual content.

Pedit: I will never be able to support a Karnage vote today. Gut town vibes and need more time/content to sort.

[GuiltyLion]

re: allo

calling him town was inaccurate. my 453 better reflects my view

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

apologies. i'll be back later to get caught up.

allo is likely town imo

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

Acryon how do you feel about this though, do you see Town going through this sequence? Have you played with town!Karnage before?

[GuiltyLion]

It's in reverse order there because I went back to quotepost but you get the idea

[acryon]

re: allo

calling him town was inaccurate. my 453 better reflects my view

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

apologies. i'll be back later to get caught up.

allo is likely town imo

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

Acryon how do you feel about this though, do you see Town going through this sequence? Have you played with town!Karnage before?

Unfortunately I've never played with any of these people I don't think. But I actually would expect scum to come up with a better reason for a seemingly contradictory read. That does actually feel like a town response to me, because I know my feelings on slots flip-flop throughout the game.

[Auro]

Do you feel like he was simply reflecting general consensus?

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I feel like I should probably read a Karnage post.

(Not that I haven't been I just haven't been paying attention to him at all.)

-Smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Did a quick ISO skim, his posts seem reasonably dynamic. They don't really look that agenda driven.

I wouldn't call him a townlean but I would say he's > rand town.

-Smart

[acryon]

Do you feel like he was simply reflecting general consensus?

No, mostly because I wouldn't characterize the rest of his play that way. The multiple "I need to catch up" posts don't give me good vibes, but I don't have a massive scum feeling there.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I mean, sometimes you get behind and need to catch up. What don't you like about them?

-Smart

[acryon]

I mean, sometimes you get behind and need to catch up. What don't you like about them?

-Smart

I don't like a bunch of them in a row. Eventually you need to catch up... I'm not saying this is what Karnage is doing, but it's a good way for scum to excuse not getting involved in things.

[GuiltyLion]

Did a quick ISO skim, his posts seem reasonably dynamic. They don't really look that agenda driven.

gonna put on my Auro cap here and ask you to elaborate which sequences of posts were dynamic in a way that scum couldn't fake. I agree he doesn't seem to have much of an agenda, but my point is if Allo and Eve are both town then he hasn't

needed

to have an agenda

[GuiltyLion]

Unfortunately I've never played with any of these people I don't think. But I actually would expect scum to come up with a better reason for a seemingly contradictory read. That does actually feel like a town response to me, because I know my feelings on slots flip-flop throughout the game.

I can understand where you're coming from with this but I think I just disagree. I can imagine scum!Karnage wanting to position himself to look good on a town!Allo wagon and let townies get their slots dirty, but then realizing he went artificially too far in the townread direction and having to walk it back

the way I can see it coming from town is if he meant "likely town" as in "8/10 odds of town solely because that's the a priori probability" but it's still also worrying to me that he said there's a better lynch out there and then basically has done nothing to find or push it.

[acryon]

but it's still also worrying to me that he said there's a better lynch out there and then basically has done nothing to find or push it.

I do have an issue with this, which is is why I don't like those catch-up posts. I don't like trying to influence the game and make those kinds of claims while doing no work of your own.

[BBmolla]

Tbqh I don’t think Eve and Allo are both town

If they are we’re in trouble to say the least

[acryon]

Tbqh I don’t think Eve and Allo are both town

If they are we’re in trouble to say the least

Agree more with the second line than the first, but I wouldn't be opposed to an Eve lynch.

[BBmolla]

GL I’m here trying to solve this game, why do you believe I’m more likely scum than a player who is decidedly lurking

Do you really think you’ll read them better later this game than me

[GuiltyLion]

idk the more I think about it the harder and harder it is for me to imagine genuinely believing a slot is not strongly town/scum, then graduating it to "likely town" but not explaining why, then saying the original read was more accurate.

It'd be a more plausible progression if he had given reasons for leaning more into a townread and/or then reasons for changing his mind, but absent of those it's really hard for me to grok where the "likely" town came from if he was so willing to then later say he didn't actually think Allo was "likely" town.

@Molla I was wavering on you but now I'm really talking myself into this Karnage/nom theory. their early game interactions fit S-S too

[BBmolla]

Karnage seems gut town to me

[BBmolla]

I think 827 has merit though

[BBmolla]

And I think pressuring nom has merit too

[GuiltyLion]

GL I’m here trying to solve this game, why do you believe I’m more likely scum than a player who is decidedly lurking

if this is referring to Allo here, I really just have one specific reason to townread Allo rn regarding his latest few posts. if that reason is wrong then I'm all aboard the Allo wagon again but I'm starting to think I had kind of an axiomatically wrong scumread and it was borking my view of how a lot of this day played out

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

gonna put on my Auro cap here and ask you to elaborate which sequences of posts were dynamic in a way that scum couldn't fake. I agree he doesn't seem to have much of an agenda, but my point is if Allo and Eve are both town then he hasn't needed to have an agenda

Can I put on my Auro cap and ask you not to put words in my mouth?

I never said that scum couldn't fake it; in fact, I think I pretty conclusively suggested the opposite by saying that this wasn't even strong enough to be a townlean.

68, 168, 169, 201, 298, 305, 453, 457, 461 are some ones that stand out as not really pushing a specific agenda.

-Smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

People were townreading noms? What for?

-Smart

[GuiltyLion]

Can I put on my Auro cap and ask you not to put words in my mouth?

I never said that scum couldn't fake it; in fact, I think I pretty conclusively suggested the opposite by saying that this wasn't even strong enough to be a townlean.

sorry I guess I just misunderstood what "> rand town" means if not a townlean... since 80% random odds any given slot is town this game from town!PoV.

68, 168, 169, 201, 298, 305, 453, 457, 461 are some ones that stand out as not really pushing a specific agenda.

-Smart

thanks I appreciate you compiling these. This is how I would imagine these might benefit a scum!Karnage:

68 - potentially distancing with scum!nom
168, 201 - these are just fluffy mechanics comments, that's freebie posting as scum. I agree with you there's no agenda but I don't think most scum!players are robots who only crank out wincon-advancing posts, there's an important aspect of just participating in conversation and sounding like you're involved/engaged.
298 - walk back early distancing with nom to disengage from pushing there, shade on skitter
305 - fake scumhunt against acryon
453 - fluffpost on town!Allo to participate but not actually get hands dirty
457 - actually somewhat interesting point here, but it's kinda just mechanics nitpicking if he never evolves it into either an Auro or Skitter scumread
461 - wait I don't wanna attract skitter's attention by pushing her for lynch

169 stands out as the most potentially town post there, because the more early game town reads you throw out as scum the harder it is to map a plausible trajectory later. but even that is kinda invalidated by his 305? Which he walks back again in 306? The whole sequence of posts in his ISO from 298-326 is a lot of posts/commentary but no actual scumhunting intent other than ostensibly 305 and 318