Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.03

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With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

midwaybear

(2): Ydrasse, Apogee

Maduisha

(1): DkKoba

Clemency

(1): enomis

DkKoba

(1): midwaybear

Not Voting

(4): joqiza, Lij00, Clemency, Maduisha

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-15 10:45:00).

Mod notes:

• joqiza is the new RandaAlzifahri.
  
• Looking for a replacement for Lij00.

[/area]

[joqiza]

when I say clemency is towny, I mean lines like “"i prefer taking the path of least resistance" and “"but honestly i just started making shit up.” There's a sort of absolute disregard for being townread and its usually the sign of either a villager or a pretty strong scum player, in my admittedly limited experience

[joqiza]

Also I’ve looked through the other posts and I have some thoughts but I kind of want to see how things develop first. Like there is just not enough content with only 5 pages to go off of.

[DkKoba]

Alright, I've reread and I'm ready to play. I'm still getting used to the new interface here, so going to apologize in advance for badly formatted posts.

I usually hardpush one player at a time, but tbh this game seems a bit slower-paced than what I'm used to, so I'm gonna try to get a couple balls rolling at once.

First, I don't think clemency scumslipped. I followed the logic, but it's a huge reach. I often address players who's alignment I'm not sure of as though they are town, I just intuitively like giving people the benefit of the doubt. In general, I'm hesitant to try to determine someone's alignment based on individual lines. This is a lesson I've learned recently, but these sorts of "slips" don't end up being as alignment-indicative as I used to think, and I'm trying to move towards more holistic assessments of players and slots. With that in mind, I actually think clemency is pretty towny based on the opening pages. Rn I wanna hear from enomis on that.

The second thing is, the most questionable post I saw on re-read was probably #66 by Maduisha. I’m gonna quote some of the lines from that post:
[referring to a TR on clemency]: “this slot stays null for me as I don't find his content to be alignment indicative, but I'm getting slight town vibes from it and I want to see more”
[referring to a TR on Ydrasse]: “Ydrasse looks town for me. I know it's early to say this, but I get a gut feeling from her posts. Maybe it's because we seem to coincide in opinion about stuff right now and I'm being a bit biased.”
[referring to a TR on DkKoba]: “DkKoba seems to really want to get the game moving, which is a good thing, so I'm townleading him right now too.”
It’s kind of wild to me to have three TR’s on page 3 of a forum game, but more than that I find the way the reads are phrased really questionable. There’s a sort of hedging tone w.r.t. each of the three reads and honestly I’ve just seen lines like this from scum players. The one in Ydrasse in particular, the sort of “hivemind” read has always been really weak to me. Like, someone outed the same general read at the same time as you, so you TR them? Idk just feels ingenuine.

stop stealing my posts and also making them sound better

[DkKoba]

but yes that is exactly what I saw LOLL was mainly the upvote post on me that prompted it.

[DkKoba]

So - to add onto what joqiza noticed about maidusha. I'd like to know why she pivoted to midway as well. I'm going to go hands off here to get more interaction from around the table but the urge to steamroll is within me so it better be good.

[midwaybear]

She(maidusha) pivoted to me? I didn’t notice that lol
Time to reread

[joqiza]

Lmao yeah I probably look like I'm opportunistically jumping on a wagon but it's what I noticed on initial read.

I don't see where she pivoted to bear tho can you link it

[joqiza]

Although I'm also aware of the benefits for scum to create townblocks around them like Midwaybear said, I don't think scum blatantly says "let's build a townblock" and rather tries to get townread by people they're going to townread back as to create the block in a way that feels organic and non-suspicious, since scum cares about appearances.

If you're referring to this it just reads more like a mention than any sort of pivot @Dk, they were actually referring to you here not midway.

Anyway, I'm gonna just wait for more people to post, I don't think I can mine anything else out of this thread for now. Tbh I'm used to the my EpicMafia forum games where we all know each other and we can rack up like 80 pages in a day (Dk can back me up on this) so I figured this was gonna be a bit of a culture clash but I'll try to be patient ^__^

[DkKoba]

Although I'm also aware of the benefits for scum to create townblocks around them like Midwaybear said, I don't think scum blatantly says "let's build a townblock" and rather tries to get townread by people they're going to townread back as to create the block in a way that feels organic and non-suspicious, since scum cares about appearances.

If you're referring to this it just reads more like a mention than any sort of pivot @Dk, they were actually referring to you here not midway.

Anyway, I'm gonna just wait for more people to post, I don't think I can mine anything else out of this thread for now. Tbh I'm used to the my EpicMafia forum games where we all know each other and we can rack up like 80 pages in a day (Dk can back me up on this) so I figured this was gonna be a bit of a culture clash but I'll try to be patient ^__^

my brain mixed up apogee and mai lmao. please disregard that point, my brain thought it was part of it too. overall the tr on me seemed unnatural to me which is what was my MAIN trigger for wanting to push mai.

[DkKoba]

also as a note: joqiza's early game is never explicitly apparent in either direction, he usually alignment tells much more mid-late game. at least judging on the one game I've hosted with him. His strong start however is more townquiza tho, fwiw.

just dropping this as a note in case needed for a future date and I'm not around.

[Apogee]

Spoiler: DkKoba Post 105 and 109

So - to add onto what joqiza noticed about maidusha. I'd like to know why she pivoted to midway as well. I'm going to go hands off here to get more interaction from around the table but the urge to steamroll is within me so it better be good.

Although I'm also aware of the benefits for scum to create townblocks around them like Midwaybear said, I don't think scum blatantly says "let's build a townblock" and rather tries to get townread by people they're going to townread back as to create the block in a way that feels organic and non-suspicious, since scum cares about appearances.

If you're referring to this it just reads more like a mention than any sort of pivot @Dk, they were actually referring to you here not midway.

Anyway, I'm gonna just wait for more people to post, I don't think I can mine anything else out of this thread for now. Tbh I'm used to the my EpicMafia forum games where we all know each other and we can rack up like 80 pages in a day (Dk can back me up on this) so I figured this was gonna be a bit of a culture clash but I'll try to be patient ^__^

my brain mixed up apogee and mai lmao. please disregard that point, my brain thought it was part of it too. overall the tr on me seemed unnatural to me which is what was my MAIN trigger for wanting to push mai.

I feel like I should clean up my reasons for moving onto midwaybear then cause its apparently caused a little confusion. It was not a particularly deep move and much more interesting (and seemingly well thought out) accusations have flown since then, but I felt moving onto even a (quite) tenuous scumread made sense as other people moved out of RVS. Still not super comfortable with all of his posts but I'm not going to heavily push either at this point

[Ydrasse]

hi, i've reread now that i'm sitting down and off of work. this thread got even more epicmafia-y and i feel like i'm back in 2016 again.

It's something DK does. pretty normal for DK, so I'm not too concerned about it
@Apogee I don't know why you are commenting on my supposed lack of opinions when we don't even have everyone here yet. Your thoughts about my townblock comments seem to be more off of gut than logic, so yeah.

i don't want to let this get overlooked. while we haven't heard from anyone yet, would you like to give some opinions/point out ones you think are prudent for the town? while it's an incomplete puzzle without everyone here, it feels almost like an excuse to say this and makes you look a bit cagey/defensive. the only read i can find in your iso that's really opinionated is clemency seeming scummy.

-

UNVOTE: midwaybear
VOTE: enomis
i'd like to see more from enomis. i feel that looking over their iso there are a lot of questions that are asked but... overall, when i read it it feels a bit like they're not interacting and engaging as much as they could versus asking questions to feign looking invested, if that makes sense. specifically, posts 20, 63, 69, and 74.

there aren't many posts yet, granted, but it goes from the scumslip to having a scum lean on clemency. which in conjunction with their post prior...

Spoiler: Clemency post 35

i think it doesnt have enough merit to warrant an answer and frankly it hurts my feelings

If this is true I apologize. It was a good way to kick off the game from RVS. Also, the slip could be true.

Spoiler: DkKoba Post 57

Something I found that I didn't like about emonis' questions is:

1) yeah thats fairly obvious
2) this one is the big one, it looks to be reaction fishing for roles to get people to act more of a certain way.(again this post only prompted me to want to push on emonis, not actually scumread him, I am not shading him for this, merely throwing out a theory that I based my push on)
3) fairly useless but also NAI and reasonable to say but also can be interpreted as extra filler.

Which question are you referring to?

Also, do you think me or clemency is more scummy right now?

Lastly, in your experience, is there alot of scums who farm "town points" by mech posting?
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I don't think townblock is a good thing to create purposefully . I feel that it makes people not want to change their townread(Stuck in their town read) and make people defend their townreads more than they should.

Publishing my reads so far:

Apogee

- Town Lean. Feels like genuinely scumhunting and using terms like "wolf" which sometimes newb town uses because they are not used to calling scums "mafia".

Clemency

- Scum Lean. For the scumslip and a few other stuff which i don't like.
Also:

statistically speaking everyone is town until proven otherwise

Feels like a convoluted way to explain the slip. I don't know, probably NAI.
Then:

UNVOTE:
i think other slots are higher priority to push rn
i'd pick one if i wasnt walking home atm

But went ahead to post a few posts without pushing anyone.

My vote stays on Clemency until I find someone else scummier.
@Clemency: I would like to see your push on someone else.

-----------------------------------

Spoiler: Apogee post 64

I've been reading back through the thread, and although I don't feel I have solid reads a few things stood out.

I just keep thinking about the pretty quick 3 person wagon on Enomis that then Clemency withdrew from. Clemency's withdrawal could be a scum move to not be seen as wagoning too hard too early? But I'm not sure it really makes more sense for him to withdraw as a maf than as a town who just didn't want a big push yet. Feel like I still need to see more to make a firm guess on the individual players involved, but either way something with the whole early votes for Enomis feels weird.

Obviously want to see the other 2 players/their replacements. Although it could be a time zone or schedule thing I would like to hear more from Maduisha, who contributed very quickly to that above wagon, answered one question, and hasn't posted since. Again, I don't have scumreads on anyone but think there is something to this situation.

I'll probably not be on much longer tonight but will take another read tomorrow morning.

I think you are thinking too much into the wagon. Clemency and Maduisha votes were RVS. DkKoba pushed the wagon because he thought I was scummy. What was weird for you about this wagon?

But yes, we need to hear more from Maduisha.

just feels a bit antsy, if anything? asking who is scummier then seguing into the read on clemency. i'm unsure if the things that enomis didn't like were the two quoted here or more, so i'd really like to hear them! it just felt sort of off when i read the iso as a whole.

also for what it's worth i think it's not a particular tell one way or another if someone uses vocabulary like wolf versus mafia; i do agree that apogee seems very willing to communicate their thought processes thus far which feels good, but i don't know where the second bit comes into play.

[midwaybear]

does anyone know what a GTKAS is?

[Apogee]

Just looked it up on the wiki -- Get To Know A Scummer.
Apparently like a personal question/interview thread to learn about people on this forum.

[Apogee]

I'd imagine the SE players have better first hand experience

[DkKoba]

quickly gonna un-derail thread so we can get back to game related talk:

GTKAS is in the "hidden" section of the site that requires manual approval after you have a certain number of posts etc. I'm sure a site mod can help better explain this.

But its supposed to be a thing where people are nominated to be asked questions by the site so the community can get to know them better.
Getting access to the speakeasy(a private forum as well) will grant you acccess to this. You can request access within your user control panel. Usually mods post info about it at the end of newbie game threads too iirc.

and we can now go back to the game on hand.

[DkKoba]

responding to ydrasse in 112
I understand your want to keep pushing enomis but I think mai is a better push right now.
Although I will hop onto enomis as they are a scumlean atm as well.

[enomis]

@Datisi: Sorry for the mispronunciation of your username. I think changing avatar color everyone in a while is quite nice though. Maybe I should change my charmander to blue color or something.

@Clemency:

UNVOTE:
i think other slots are higher priority to push rn
i'd pick one if i wasnt walking home atm

Since this is not made up. Could you do your push? What exactly do you mean by push here?

@DkKoba:

Reminder: Could you address my questions in post 63
Also an additional question, what made you not want to push my wagon anymore?

@Joqiza:

What's the meaning of Rn? I will explain my thought process about clemency in another post.

p-edit. Ok You answered my additional question, but could address my post 63 please.

[enomis]

i'd like to see more from enomis. i feel that looking over their iso there are a lot of questions that are asked but... overall, when i read it it feels a bit like they're not interacting and engaging as much as they could versus asking questions to feign looking invested, if that makes sense. specifically, posts 20, 63, 69, and 74.

Not sure if I understand here. But how would a "town enomis" react? Do you think my questions were feigned?(Meaning I asked those questions not because I want to know the answer to them but just to act invested).

just feels a bit antsy, if anything? asking who is scummier then seguing into the read on clemency. i'm unsure if the things that enomis didn't like were the two quoted here or more, so i'd really like to hear them! it just felt sort of off when i read the iso as a whole.

I responded to DkKoba, then thought it would be a good time to give my reads and overview of the game so far. That was my thought process then.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also My whole thought process regarding Clemency since it seems that everyone is interested:

1) I saw the possible Scumslip, thought it would be a good way to kick us off RVS and wanted to see if there is anything I can get out of the reaction of everyone.
2) Then Clemency posted this:

statistically speaking everyone is town until proven otherwise

Which seems a weird and complicated way to explain the slip.
3) Then:

UNVOTE:
i think other slots are higher priority to push rn
i'd pick one if i wasnt walking home atm

This post and his following few posts just pinged me hard. Saying that he will push another slot but not doing it in the next few posts makes me feel that his statement is not genuine and not really what he thinks.
4) Then comes:

eh, im gonna blatantly backpedal by admitting i was trying a different style and it didnt suit me

Which sort of made his post 30 makes sense if he was trying some different style. So I went on to question him.
5)

oh that part was honest

So he is saying his post 30 is genuine but it doesn't really look that way.
6)
I also understand Joqiza and DkKoba put Clemency as town as town tend to make this kind of gambit more than scum as scum would be more careful generally.
But it could be scum Clemency trying this new playstyle because he thinks it will make him look more town if he is less on the backseat.

Abit conflicted here.
---------------------

Writing down my thoughts actually make my thoughts clearer.

@Clemency:

Extra question, what made you want to try this new playstyle this game especially? Did the criticism of you come in the last few games?

[DkKoba]

what was your question. if you want me to respond to direct questions I need them in a separate post bc I'm a skimmer not a reader.

[enomis]

what was your question. if you want me to respond to direct questions I need them in a separate post bc I'm a skimmer not a reader.

..... You just have to click the link to my previous post in post 63.
I am abit annoyed at your attitude.

[enomis]

I mean just go to post 63. You can click the link linked in post#118.

[DkKoba]

Spoiler: Clemency post 35

i think it doesnt have enough merit to warrant an answer and frankly it hurts my feelings

If this is true I apologize. It was a good way to kick off the game from RVS. Also, the slip could be true.

Spoiler: DkKoba Post 57

Something I found that I didn't like about emonis' questions is:

1) yeah thats fairly obvious
2) this one is the big one, it looks to be reaction fishing for roles to get people to act more of a certain way.(again this post only prompted me to want to push on emonis, not actually scumread him, I am not shading him for this, merely throwing out a theory that I based my push on)
3) fairly useless but also NAI and reasonable to say but also can be interpreted as extra filler.

Which question are you referring to?

Also, do you think me or clemency is more scummy right now?

Lastly, in your experience, is there alot of scums who farm "town points" by mech posting?
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I don't think townblock is a good thing to create purposefully . I feel that it makes people not want to change their townread(Stuck in their town read) and make people defend their townreads more than they should.

1) didnt mean questions, meant the tips
2) ur more scummy. I think clemency has more or less townslipped with their tone as of rn.
3) yes yes yes. it more depends ~how~ its done but I did not like how you presented your "tips" and the content of them.

[DkKoba]

i stopped pushing ur wagon bc no one was convinced by it and i'm looking for information over anything so i'm not here to bang my head against the wall.