Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.06

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With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

DkKoba

(2): midwaybear, enomis

midwaybear

(2): Apogee, Maduisha

enomis

(1): Ydrasse

Not Voting

(4): joqiza, Clemency, DkKoba, votato

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-15 10:45:00).

Mod notes:

• ...

[/area]

[enomis]

@DkKoba:

Ok, maybe i didn't phrase myself clearly.

again this post only prompted me to want to push on emonis, not actually scumread him, I am not shading him for this, merely throwing out a theory that I based my push on

)

@DkKoba:

But now you are scumreading me for the exact same thing.

This. I mainly meant to say explain the flip-flopping of this read. Realised I didn't type a question along with this.
Secondly, You mentioned "

3) yes yes yes. it more depends ~how~ its done but I did not like how you presented your "tips" and the content of them.

".
So yes, how did I present the mech post to make it scummy? You only talked about the content of them. Maybe this would be a better way to phrase it now.

--------------------------

You know, If you are town, you could have listed clearly where I was "nitpicking" and clearly type it out instead of just shouting and waving it away. Then I will realise I didn't post my question along with the explanation and all these could have been avoided.
It will also help others understand your argument and see from your pov how "scummy" I was.
You shouting just made us create one page of shouting back and forth and possibly distract the whole town.
This isn't being aggressive anymore, this is just shouting "enomis is so obv scum! Why can't you all see" every post. What's the use of that.

[enomis]

there's at least 1 scum between emonis + midway and I know it. I'll delete my account if I' wrong about that.

Keeping this here. BTW, I am reading midwear somewhat town so there is high probability that you are going to have to delete your account.

--------
P.S please don't delete your account.

[enomis]

And unlike votato, your posts on page 7 did not give me town reads on you. Nor scum read.

[joqiza]

Alright, this is aimed for enomis. My earlier post today was rushed and probably incoherent so I want to try again.

First, I want to address the Clemency scumslip. My argument is that this was not a scumslip, it was a null-alignment gesture.

Clemency's posts:

#6: “the best player in this game is on your side tonight”
#9: “i cant believe you would vote me after i claimed town </3”

enomis's logic:

1) You said you claimed town
2) Your claim of town was "rejoice! the best player in this game is on your side tonight"
3) Meaning you need to know that I am town in-order to claim town (Since only I posted beside you when you claim town)
4) The only ones who knows I am town other than myself is scum.

The issue:

What doesn’t follow is #2 to #3, it’s cracked logic imo, clemency opens the game with saying he is on ‘your’ side the ‘your’ side doesn’t appear directed at particular, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume he just meant this as a general appeal to a town core that he doesn’t yet know. You could argue that he meant enomis specifically when he responds to him saying he claimed town, but that's a logical leap. To me, he’s just saying he claimed town by claiming to be on most people's side. His "claim of town" wasn't directed at any specific player.

I have tried multiple times to reread page 1 with your logic in mind and a scumslip and I can’t. I want to emphasize that

I don't know if clemency will flip scum or not

, but what i am certain of is that

if he does flip scum, this will not be the reason why.

Doubling down:

I have no issue with you bringing up this logic @enomis and questioning clemency with it in the meme part of the game, I just got red flags from #63 and #65. I feel like clemency has clarified his logic here, and additionally he has imo dropped a couple towntells. I don't get why you insisted here on holding on to the notion of his statement as a "scumslip," and additionally you don't seem to be updating your read on them with the new information on page 2.

I don't think noticing and bringing up these sorts of statements and questioning them as slips as bad, it's just I'm used to seeing scum players double down on this sort of small thing, interpret it in the most uncharitable way possible, and continually refuse to re-evaluate as an excuse not to be forced to fake analysis on the other content of the slot. When I see someone avoiding doing analysis, it's scummy!

Moving on:

The good news is I think enomis's post #119 is a lot stronger, here he elaborates on his thought process and provides a lot more substance on his Clemency read. I was scumleaning enomis before this tbh, but I think he brings up some legitimate reasons to question Clemency, particularly Clemency's sequence of posts: #30, #68, #73. I have mentioned my reasoning behind my TR on Clemency, but I am hesitant to mark him town for the simple reason that I haven't seen clemency's READS yet, and I don't make strong evaluations based off early-game tone.

For enomis, I don't think I have any further questions because we haven't seen anything else out of clemency, I guess I just want to make a general statement to the table that I think in order to towntell you need to analyze not just individual lines but the overall slot, and incorporate all the information you have available. And I'm fine with telling the wolves this, cuz even if you know what to do it's hard to do it well.

[DkKoba]

emonis the way you are extremely hung up over a light push that was used to advance the game state is not healthy at all.

i'm no longer interacting with you unless you decide to drop the RVS nonsense bc I have repeated multiple times I'm through with it.

You've yet to explain why you want to keep your vote on me, while not even noticing my vote isn't even on you. Let me pivot to ask you why you are coming after me when Ydrasse actually has a vote on you. And the more you decide to peddle this useless non-argument the more I will be pressed to simply policy lynch you for not being cooperative. Me thinking you are scummier than clemency is a comparison read. I suggest you stop trying to lie to advance your agenda.

If you think I'm scumreading you solely based on RVS posts then you are being ignorant, and need to iso yourself.

Now, how do I appear "informed" in your eyes? You are simply saying I am scum because I upset your ego. That is all. You have no real argument. Drop it.

[DkKoba]

joqiza who would you put a vote on right now if you had to.

[joqiza]

joqiza who would you put a vote on right now if you had to.

deadass I could not tell you right now, I need to see more from clemency and bear before I even commit to anything. Tbh that question triggers my paranoia because it reminds me of every game I've ever played with scum!SPF where she would ask me that to figure out if she can pocket me LOL

[joqiza]

I think Maduisha towntold a bit under pressure so I wouldn't be comfortable hitting her with hammer if I had it. Bear and clem are both questionable rn simply due to inactivity but I want to give them both a chance to towntell if they're town. I have some reads on the rest of the table but I want to keep them close to my chest for now

[midwaybear]

how do I towntell because Idk how to contribute

PS is that dr. Strange?

[joqiza]

Yep, it's a reference to a series of Avengers posts I made in a mafia game once, probably the content I'm proudest of ^^
https://epicmafia.com/topic/94111?page=110

If you're town, all you need to do to towntell is 1. post your genuine thoughts as they come to you, and 2. look through the thread and do the work to find mafia. As town you can indicate your alignment by solving the puzzle. Mafia can't do this, because they already have the puzzle solved. Informed minority vs. uninformed majority. (Making some simplifications here, PRs add a bit of complexity to things). At the end of the day that's all it comes down to.

[DkKoba]

please don't remind me of fruit mafia...........................

[joqiza]

Aw cmon now fruit mafia was a good time

Honestly it's kind of crazy to me, like looking back at that game we cleared 100 pages in 36 hours, whereas here we're gonna be lucky to hit 15 pages over 10 days. Not trying to throw shade I love y'all but it's just a culture difference.... granted fruit mafia was like 90% shitposting but this game sorta feels like squeezing blood from a stone so far

[votato]

Aw cmon now fruit mafia was a good time

Honestly it's kind of crazy to me, like looking back at that game we cleared 100 pages in 36 hours, whereas here we're gonna be lucky to hit 15 pages over 10 days. Not trying to throw shade I love y'all but it's just a culture difference.... granted fruit mafia was like 90% shitposting but this game sorta feels like squeezing blood from a stone so far

newbie games are generally very slow afaik. i dont have much experience on the site but ive seen some games do over 40 pages in a day. most are somewhere in the middle.

[DkKoba]

i was yelled at my first game on here for posting too much, so I started going more hands off oop


not my fault i like making my presence known at all times.

[Apogee]

there's at least 1 scum between emonis + midway and I know it. I'll delete my account if I' wrong about that.

Keeping this here. BTW, I am reading midwear somewhat town so there is high probability that you are going to have to delete your account.

Any particular reason for the midwaybear townlean? Just checked through your posts and I think its the first time you've mentioned that, and most people have them as null/mild scum right now it seems.

[midwaybear]

maybe enomis is trying to pocket me
I read the DK, enomis argument and DK came out on top at least IMO. I'm not sure though...

I WAS AGGRESSIVE THERE TOO.

yeah, but I was scum that game, so I was fine with it.
your aggressiveness led to the jk claiming and two mislynches, so I think it's fair

pedit: I am one of those town player that you mentioned. I think I gain interest as the game goes on though.

i think you missed the point of why I said that bud. sailed right over your head.

ok, then what was your point. That you were town? You were still pretty anti-town that game though no offense.

PS: how do you pronounce enomis? I am thinking it sounds like "enormous", but how a baby would pronounce it.

[Ydrasse]

@apogee: i don't think that it's much of a stretch to have a townread on midway, really. the simplest explanation imo is that they said they were confused and haven't added much because of it.
it could be a big-brained mafia strategy to pass off why they haven't outed much of anything, but... sometimes it's easier to take things at face value and accept confusion is confusion. that he was willing to outright say it gave him a townpoint or two to me.

despite this i do think it doesn't help the town at all to not at least try, confusion or not. and if it continues on as more content comes out, it'll be more suspect in my eyes than it is now.

[Datisi]

Prodding Clemency.

[Maduisha]

And unlike votato, your posts on page 7 did not give me town reads on you. Nor scum read.

I want to ask you about this, because I feel like showing emotion is a tell on its own. Both you and DK getting frustrated at each other for lack of better communication feels town vs town, in my opinion. Not because I don't think scum doesn't dare to 1v1 early on, but because I can feel the frustration from both is genuine. Did you really get no vibes out of this interaction with DK, or are you saying this because you've played with him before and this is within his scum range?

[Clemency]

alright im here
sorry for the inactivity, i found myself very much occupied
if there's any urgent questions give em over, i'll read what i missed in a bit

[Clemency]

oh this game is quiet quiet

[DkKoba]

There's been plenty of content for you to reply to since last you were here...

[Clemency]

it hasnt been a bit yet im very lazy

[votato]

even in death you will become children of clemency

This is a cult claim actually