I just went through valoneast's ISO and almost voted for him after just a couple posts, then changed my mind about halfway through, then changed my mind again about 3/4 through, then changed it a few more times. So I'm just going to post my thoughts on the ISO in raw form and then figure out what it means to me after.
In post 23, valoneast wrote:
Does this mean we have to lynch you twice?
VOTE: Umlaut
Anyways, first time playing on this site since... 7/8 years ago? Quarantine has me bored, but please treat me like a newb for all intents and purposes. I'm sure I'll get the hang of this game again soon enough.
Bad intro. Not because he's voting me, but because he's voting me immediately after two other people whose votes are... well, maybe not that serious but not totally roll-a-die random either, and yet doesn't seem to be doing so for any real reason or to be interested in what the reasons for this incipient wagon might be.
In post 174, valoneast wrote:Heard my name.
You guys are absolutely going at breakneck speeds here. I know the newb card will get me more flak, but I've been reading every post so far, trying to follow along. I mean, about 50% of the argument is linked to your prior game(s), which once again, I CAN'T CONTRIBUTE IN.
Not sure how you guys play your games, but when I've got something to contribute. I will.
First of all not really true (there were meta comments but they were pretty marginal and there was plenty else to discuss), and secondly making excuses for not doing things when he could be finding things to do.
In post 178, valoneast wrote:Just spitballing:
4. Hoctac - I absolutely hate this personality, claiming random shit. Making light of every situation. Generally, just shit disturbing the entire game.
6. Persivul - +1 for being friendly and slightly helpful? Though I'm not sure if this is out of frustration for my lack of game or not.
10. LuckyLuciano - Less scummy the more the game goes on. We'll see.
11. farside22 - One massive post, painting a picture of town to me, but still too early to tell.
12. Klick - Actually, the biggest scumread in my books. He's been bouncing around votes all day here. Seeing what sticks. Just bounces around in what I perceive as a random manner.
13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.
Easy superficial reads, the kind that you give when you're just looking for something to write about and don't really care whether you sort anyone correctly or not.
In post 192, valoneast wrote: In post 187, SirCakez wrote:Atarashi bothers me a little bit but I don't know how to describe it.
Stuff like this! Is there something that they're phrasing that's causing you to be thrown off or bothering you? Personally I think they're trying to prod a slightly crazed character.
This felt kind of fake when I saw it and I should have pointed it out then but I thought it was probably nothing and didn't really think more about it. Looking more closely, I can see it as serving a purpose more of advertising "valoneast is suspicious of SirCakez" than of trying to sort either him or Atarashi.
In post 197, valoneast wrote:
haha, but how else would you interact with Hoctac in this case. Honestly, the sooner we're rid of them the better.
In post 198, valoneast wrote: In post 190, Reundo wrote:Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of
this post does ping me the wrong way.
Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.
These posts are asking better questions than the last post but honestly pretty null overall, anyone could ask these.
In post 204, valoneast wrote: In post 201, Reundo wrote: In post 198, valoneast wrote: In post 190, Reundo wrote:Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of
this post does ping me the wrong way.
Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.
Admitting to copying his past town game down to the exact post is pretty strange. The only reason it doesn't bother me more is because he claimed he'd reveal the town motivation for that later on, so I'm not too concerned about it atm.
Hmm, to me it seems rather neutral. Opening move is the same every time, and keep consistent, as soon as you deviate people will jump.
This is actually the best evidence
defending
valoneast that I could find, because I don't see why scum!valoneast would resist this point so much. Lucky copying his previous opening is definitely
weird
no matter what you ultimately make of it, and I think scum!valoneast would more likely remain open to accepting that as a reason to scumread Lucky down the road. (Unless they're scum together but then I wouldn't think he would want to talk so much about Lucky at all, defending or not)
In post 223, valoneast wrote:any reasons for Luciano? It's been a while since they've said anything and imo there's been people with more red flags than them. Luciano sounds like they're frustrated with us fixated on the, "Im going to try this whole thing where I play the same as this last game I was town, as it seems like a logical thing". And it sounds genuine that he probably regrets it now, and he wouldn't say "all will be revealed to you in the future" as it sounds just SOOO scummy that they can't be scum, nobody's THAT stupid... right?
Actually it's maybe weird that he keeps popping up specifically to respond to suspicions of Lucky?
In post 273, valoneast wrote:Im not really sure on the theory of mafia, but a quick D1 lynch isn't really town beneficial. I assume that you want to read people, see how wagon forms and such. You mentioned that you wanted a quick D1 lynch on post #14 and #26, so that causes for concern.
As the game's rolled on, it just sounds more and more like you took a shot in #36, where you mentioned that you've copied your town game, asking for an explanation how someone's thought process led you to believe that you were scum like. However this completely backfire as that argument itself made it scumesque. At this point I had a bit of scumread on you.
However, as I thought about it more and more, I realized that you were merely frustrated, and commenting on someone's argument of your "ploy" is actually quite logical, maybe executed poorly.
This seems off because valoneast never actually showed any suspicion of Lucky in the first place, he just kept his random vote on me up until he removed it because "it's not doing anything"
In post 276, valoneast wrote:
Generally I like this, but isn't the point of D1 chat to see how people lean? The idea is that scum has limited information, so you for the most part you're just trying to decipher why people feel a certain way towards other. and their thinking behind it. I think at this point all 12 of us is just trying ask you how you lean.
Fluffy
In post 279, valoneast wrote: In post 263, LuckyLuciano wrote:You can take my word for it and keep it in mind later in the game when it's more relevant for me to explain myself, or you can push for my reasoning immediately.
I think this is the worry we all have, why bother revealing this idea anyways? Why not just NOT bring of this argument. IMO I think you were trying a new move and are genuinely frustrated that people are fixated on this idea that you had to "copy your town game to seem town" for whatever reason that is. Your past posts have been all about defending that, and you sound genuinely annoyed/frustrated. Breadcrumbing (I think that's what is called) a little less obvious next time, if you're actually breadcrumbing.
Fluffy
In post 283, valoneast wrote:I find farside more and more towny as the game goes on. Decent questions, always asking for an explanation on why a certain decision was made. I guess scum can replicate this as well, but they mix in their opinions and really try to understand others and what they're saying.
Okay, I guess
In post 284, valoneast wrote: In post 281, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm also worried that he seemed to have operated under the assumption that I was scum prior to engaging in the reaction test, which doesn't show good faith
Why not? Isn't the point to see if any scum alarms get alerted when doing said reaction test? If you don't trigger it, then the assumption goes away? I'm confused about this.
Fluffy
In post 308, valoneast wrote:
Arghhh! It's stuff like this. By your posts and our interaction, you seem genuine and logical. But then you say something like this and everyone raises their eyebrows and all collectively go "Huh? Why?". Maybe this is some advanced play that I don't understand. Maybe there's a "King in the palace" type of role in this open game.
... I keep flip flopping on you for reasons like these. XD
Fluffy (and what raised your eyebrows about that post anyway?)
In post 317, valoneast wrote: In post 309, clidd wrote:I like your comments, but I don't see anything outside of your scum-rage. The reason I'm townreading you is because of your emotional reaction to my push, especially when Zulfy joined the conversation. So basically from my point of view you are a town with incorrect reads about me and I probably feel that my vote on Ragman intensified your feeling that he would be scum on the Scum!Clidd scenario. In this context, your scumreads start from a distorted perception of the game state, which weakens the accuracy of your general reads on the slots, unless, of course, your evaluation encompasses interpretations outside the speculation that I am scum.
Once again, it's fine to read someone based on their initial scummyness, but have you read what he's been doing afterwards? I had the same thought as you, but from reading his iso and his willingness to admit his frustrations, (coming from a guy who was also frustrated), does it not seem like he is actually, just frustrated? He willingly admits this! That can't be a scum thing to do can it? it's just TOO obvious I feel. His explanations do seem well thought out. Even if a bit defensive.
Now, you might think I'm defending him, but the fact that he is hiding something does sound off alarms, I just can't imagine a scenario that he's scum!Lucky, but why so many secrets.
Maybe he as scum!Lucky is playing that obviously so that town WON'T lynch. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit?
This is much better, it comes off like valoneast is confused and can't make up his mind about Lucky and really is trying to get help doing so. I like how Clidd makes it clear he townreads valoneast and then valoneast is like "what? never mind that, what about this Lucky guy?" and keeps pushing that topic.
In post 356, valoneast wrote:
Yep, I think his reaction was acceptable, as with all, but he didn't really have a scumread on you, just that he would vote on you due to what you said. I know you think #46 unvote seems weird, but it's not if you read his explanation in 51, 53, 58, he does back it up. He did his probing, and he got some reactions. he doesn't have to immediate dictate you for these actions for the rest of the game, just he came, got some info, and left.
From a scum!clidd standpoint, I feel like he might've wanted to push the wagon harder, seeing what you had to hide, or keep reminding us of this pressure on you. I mean, it's a pretty big tell IMO, but he was willing to drop it after a bit.
He's leaning more town than you are atm.
Again much better than earlier stuff, and makes me feel like the earlier "I can't find a hook into the game" complaint was genuine if he was capable of producing stuff like this once he did.
Okay, I guess valoneast can be town, because the towny things I found are more convincing individually than the scummy things. Something felt forced about his earlier contributions but I could see them coming from an overwhelmed townie trying to find a place to start.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
