Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

Titus' reasons for skitter being "locktown" from votes is pretty bad

we should end this day already

Eve: I want to learn VCA.
Me: Explains it. Invites Eve to do it.
Eve: Silence.
Me: It's GL, Auro or Eve if I am wrong.
Eve: Titus reason for TRing Skitter sucks. Let's just lynch her fast.

Me: Side eye.

[Auro]

I can teach you VCA Eve. Look at where Auro's voting, sheep that, that's all

:3

[Atarashi Hajimari]

In terms of responding to the case, there weren't really any direct questions, but I'm happy to respond to some if they have them. Otherwise looks like it's just based on whether I'm genuine or not, and I can't argue that.

...you've gotta be kidding me. Are you trolling me? This is the most blatant hand-waving away someone's suspicions on them that I've ever seen.

Like, what person actually reads through someone else's reason to think they're scum and thinks "oh, they don't directly ask me any specific questions, I don't have anything I can respond to here"?

I am saying that you are scum and should die.

I have provided reasons based on your posts and provided analysis as to why you are scum because of things you have said and done. The absolute

bare minimum

you can do is say "hey you're wrong" and why I'm wrong. The

productive

thing you can do is look through them and say "hey, this person looks like town/scum from this push on me" and sort me.

The absolutely tilting thing you can do is just look at it and say "hey none of the questions marks seem directly addressed to me so imma just ignore it".

[Atarashi Hajimari]

Like...do I have to go really bad debate tactics and say "if you're not responding to my arguments then that means you agree that they're true" to get you to respond to me?

[Atarashi Hajimari]

I just woke up and I need a drink. Jesus I havent been tilted this hard in a long damn time...

[Titus]

I just woke up and I need a drink. Jesus I havent been tilted this hard in a long damn time...

Get one for me too.

[Eve]

VOTE: Titus

Titus' reasons for skitter being "locktown" from votes is pretty bad

we should end this day already

Eve: I want to learn VCA.
Me: Explains it. Invites Eve to do it.
Eve: Silence.
Me: It's GL, Auro or Eve if I am wrong.
Eve: Titus reason for TRing Skitter sucks. Let's just lynch her fast.

Me: Side eye.

i was one of your top two scumreads before i asked you for the VCA Titus

btw i feel like an easier way of learning it is to go to completed games and colour in all the VCs with alignments and then look for common trends that mafia do between games

[Eve]

I can teach you VCA Eve. Look at where Auro's voting, sheep that, that's all

:3

you're not even voting anyone???

you must be scum trying to confuse me

[Auro]

VOTE: Titus

There ya go

[Titus]

I am looking at how you treated me. The shift was sudden. Also you have been my third SR. You're only lynched if one of GL or Aurora flips town and I think that is unlikely.

Off to prove Skitter is town.

[Auro]

Oh look, Titus thinks Eve could be scum but isn't really pushing her!

[Titus]

If acryon is telling the truth about not seeing the soft then my point is moot. He was talking about getting back to an Allo wagon before the nom deadline wagon happened though, like it wasn’t just the one vote I’m talking about.

sorry i'm still not following
allo wasn't really viable at that point, i don't think that scum thinks that they were going to get that deadline lynch there really

especially since acryon knows he's vla over the weekend and wouldn't be able to nudge people in that direction

GuiltyLion's vote park looks like scum to me regardless of your alignment, so I want to start there too.

interesting.
which votepark, the current one on karnage?
because the obvious followup is why is my votepark not scum indicative too?

Now I'm going to run the numbers if GL is town.

Very little wagon participation suggests Karnage is town.

why tho?
why aren't scum piling on in this case?

We look at how Skitter treats the thread. First she tries to explain to TLDNE that a mislynch on Allo was impossible. Look at the tone she takes. It's not hostile but is matter of fact. It's not pockets. It's just stating an inconvenient truth.

Second, look how Skitter treats me. I am practically the only slot TRing him and she doesn't try and build me or my logic up. Instead, she tries to analyze my posts.

[Titus]

Oh look, Titus thinks Eve could be scum but isn't really pushing her!

And if Eve flips scum, you would be right to suspect me for it.

[Auro]

Fair enough

[Auro]

But then if your "top two" lynches are both town then I'd have the right to suspect you as buddies with anyone there are other factors too is what I mean

[Titus]

But then if your "top two" lynches are both town then I'd have the right to suspect you as buddies with anyone there are other factors too is what I mean

Not really. I'm hard pushing GL. No one doubts that
Show me his scum hunting since I got here. I'll wait. It doesn't exist.

[Auro]

I'll let GL answer that himself, let's see how this goes

[acryon]

In terms of responding to the case, there weren't really any direct questions, but I'm happy to respond to some if they have them. Otherwise looks like it's just based on whether I'm genuine or not, and I can't argue that.

...you've gotta be kidding me. Are you trolling me? This is the most blatant hand-waving away someone's suspicions on them that I've ever seen.

Like, what person actually reads through someone else's reason to think they're scum and thinks "oh, they don't directly ask me any specific questions, I don't have anything I can respond to here"?

I am saying that you are scum and should die.

I have provided reasons based on your posts and provided analysis as to why you are scum because of things you have said and done. The absolute

bare minimum

you can do is say "hey you're wrong" and why I'm wrong. The

productive

thing you can do is look through them and say "hey, this person looks like town/scum from this push on me" and sort me.

The absolutely tilting thing you can do is just look at it and say "hey none of the questions marks seem directly addressed to me so imma just ignore it".

Sorry--not my intent to tilt you, but the majority of your case is stuff you think doesn't look genuine. My argument to that would be "well it is." You did ask a legit question at the end about what made me back off Auro. I backed off Auro because there was a fundamental issue with my SR on him. It's true that he wasn't a town-read for me just yet at that point, but there's a whole lot of grey between scum-read I want to push and town-read.

I get you being frustrated that your case was ignored, but I'm not sure your frustration should be with me. We're going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of your thoughts because I know my alignment and you don't.

My gut says you're town simply because I'm not sure there's a lot of equity in replacing in and immediately going after someone that is pretty widely town-read. And I frankly don't feel like you were trying to misrep me. You're gut is off, but it doesn't feel like scum.

Auro

I'm not sure I like his play today. Yesterday he had a clear focus, working on the town and copblocs. That is moot today, so his play must be different one way or the other, but I'm just not sure the tone feels super towny.

[Auro]

My clear focus today is getting Skitter/Titus lynched.

[GuiltyLion]

There's no town reason to out a soft.

I already explained why I outed the soft

With the respect to the soft, I definitely saw it and felt it was obvious at the time. I somewhat regret highlighting it so explicitly because I wonder if scum may not have seen it at the same time I did, but I also wanted to see if anyone was going to counterclaim or push Allo harder, which nobody did for about a page so then I backed off and re-evaluated. It also made his early game interactions with Eve make a ton more sense, cause he was skeptical of her for the TA claim when he was riffing on her shitposting but not giving content.

So yes I did see it immediately and I dunno how I would have played it as scum in terms of dayplay but if I were scum I always would have shot him at night there because I think it was pretty blatant. Acryon going back to Allo may be a towntell I feel, cause I don't think he'd miss it as scum if he were looking for TA suspects, and it seems unlikely he was faking not seeing it.

[GuiltyLion]

I agree with flipping Titus before skitter, but I'm not sure I agree that town!Titus makes scum!skitter more likely. Explain that one to me?

eh that was just kind of a POE thought

bc I don't think town!Titus reflects badly on most of my lock-town reads
and I think the way skitter loosely defended Saus is more likely to be WK-y than buddy defending buddy.

but end of the day I don't think it's like Skitter is hard scum if Titus is town, I just was still on the track thinking Skitter is better as scum than to do half-assed associatives

[GuiltyLion]

I did put a suggestion in case I was wrong, but you guys are acting like you have information which says GL is innocent and refusing to even consider he was scum.

because nothing you conclude from your VCA argument reflects at all the reality of Day 1 and how it was played

and when we try to point that out, you post nonsense

[GuiltyLion]

like the fact that Auro has been calling me suspect all game, yet immediately criticizes your sloppy/faulty VCA reasoning, should make you pause and stop, not double down.

[GuiltyLion]

@GuiltyLion You should focus a little on building consensus about 1/0 with Skitter, tbh

And vice versa, actually. Why do you think this is out of skitter's scumrange?

-Smart

I also feel she has this indignant vibe (similar to Lilith) and it doesn't match with survivalism so much as genuine frustration with people disagreeing with her or making faulty assumptions, I generally think that's quite hard to fake, scum either underdo it or it winds up feeling more forced and performative

Isn't scum also

genuinely

frustrated with people not agreeing with them?

so on these questions, I don't know if I can really muster up a great/satisfying answer at this point, outside of when I already tried to explain in 1721. I guess it's not impossible that skitter is scum but I've just agreed with so much of what's she's argued or posted that I feel I need evidence of where she's manipulating the game state or being disingenuous in order for me to reconsider and take a harder look. It feels like everyone is POEing down to her rather than making a case for what she's done that she wouldn't do as town.

I wanna see where she goes now that Atari and Titus are playing

[GuiltyLion]

In the VCs you quoted:

Skitter first vote in 1.1, 1.16.
GuiltyLion first vote in 1.1, 1.23

GL was literally the first vote in equally as much wagons as Skit from the ones you quoted here. Hardly sheepy at all

GL has a bunch of sheep votes in the middle. Also 1.23 is end of day. Second, 1.23 GL is only first because others peeled off. Hardly leading a charge there. Skitter's first vote is on GL in 1.16. Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

Citation needed.

please cop lynch Karnage or Me if this flips green, not Skit

Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

Citation needed.

please cop lynch Karnage or Me if this flips green, not Skit

End of day wagon, Skitter is off it. I was referring to the collective consensus. Since y'all positioned for the TA.

GL wouldn't want Skitter to be conftown. That's conftown pushing him. Town would want to know if their biggest detractor was town or scum.

I think this is also pretty scum-indicative from Titus here

first she argues that I wanted Skitter copped because she was pushing me

then Auro points out that I explicitly said

not

to cop Skitter at EOD (thanks Auro! also worth pointing out that Skitter was townreading me by this point)

then she argues that the reason I don't want Skitter copped is because then she'd be conf-town and pushing me, which is

the exact opposite of what she

just

said!

Like literally she first argues that I wanted skitter copped because she was pushing me, then immediately switches to argue that I

don't

want skitter copped because she was pushing me.

it's motivated reasoning - Titus just wants to assume that I'm scum and fit any and all evidence to that narrative, even when directly confronted with new evidence that is contrary to her original reasoning, she just changes her reasoning completely.

It's also again abundantly clear that she's trying to argue having not even read the game, because calling Skitter my "biggest detractor" is not based in reality of end of Day 1. Auro was my biggest detractor