Open 779: Pick Your Power X/Y Game Over!

[DonCorleone]

hardclaim cop

Yeah, I’m as surprised to have got it as you all are, what can I say, luck of the Irish

[DonCorleone]

Just a note: Please if you sign up for a game. Please PLEASE PLEASE Read the setup. How the game setup is is in the wiki Pick Your Power X/Y This should go without saying.

So who was the silly billy who didn’t understand how the setup worked

Speak now or forever lose your towncred

...it was you, wasn't it?

[DonCorleone]

Yo what up?

VOTE: brassherald

[DonCorleone]

Skitter, why did you change from your normal pick to a more 'optimal' pick?

[DonCorleone]

I looked at the last five (+venrob's) to try and predict what numbers were most likely to come up and to get a good position.Worked out well lol. I actually didn't check alignments, so I didn't realise you were scum in the previous games, meaning that your shift is less concerning and maybe actually a good thing but I'm not gonna give you that much credit for it.

[DonCorleone]

Hello

We did not get our pick.

VOTE: skitter why didn't you pick 42?

-Farkran

Skitter, why did you change from your normal pick to a more 'optimal' pick?

Cuz i'm not scum this time and dont need to ensure at least one member of the scumteam gets in ahead of doubles

You've studied the last few drafts, i take it?

[DonCorleone]

Big +1 on I have no idea how you're calling the top 4 slots town, farkran.

@datisi, I strongly suspect that if skitter is scum that that statement was made as pure WIFOM. I personally disagree with her lowkey idea (I don't know why it's unlikely that scum would choose in both 1 and 2?) but agree that it's unlikely 2 scum would have picked the same number.

[DonCorleone]

Meh

VOTE: farkset hydra

?

I think that farkset hydra is more likely town than scum based on what they've posted so far. I just don't think they have any rational basis to think the top 4 slots are town, but then lots of players don't play rationally.

[DonCorleone]

Scumcase us please

-Farkran

@skitter

I'm assuming you're thinking that it's bold to assume what you're thinking

[DonCorleone]

no idea why I quoted fark there

[DonCorleone]

this feels good for now

VOTE: dunn

I don't think Dunn calling out my cop claim is helpful as he should know that there's 2 main reasons why I would claim cop as town and neither is benefitted by having it become a point of focus. He also should know that if I were doing it as scum then there's little long term benefit to it, so again it makes sense to leave it alone.

But by suggesting that it's an odd thing to do he's both taking it too seriously for how I think town would approach it and he's possibly trying to bait a real cop into counter claiming, in the event where I was meme-claiming.

Plus I don't think his "scum would take the 1s vig or PGO much more than town" is valid, especially now that I've had a look at (only venrob's so far) and seen that the very first pick was town and went for PGO

[DonCorleone]

don, has your main been revealed yet?

No, this is still a secret alt, although guesses have been abundant and possibly correct but possibly incorrect

[DonCorleone]

Anyone else find my posts scummy?

-Farkran

What benefit is there to focusing on my claim from a town!perspective? Feels a lot like you're baiting a cop claim.

[DonCorleone]

I didn't go back to look at alignments at anything other than venrob's yet (yes, I know it's imperfect as.a comparison). I thought Dunn was in that too, but I guess not.

Why is Dunn lowkey townie?

[DonCorleone]

Yes, but my point is that it looks like you're saying that me claiming outright is odd and the implication is that someone should CC.

[DonCorleone]

I may or may not be the cop, but if I am then I'm double bluffing scum and trying to get a doc on me if possible. If I'm not then I'm claiming it seriously to try and draw a NK while being a VT. You calling it out as "huh why did you claim cop?" just helps plant the seed in the mind of the cop (if we're in the latter scenario which I'm not confirming) that I may be scum who should be CC'd. Which would then out them for the scumteam.

[DonCorleone]

scum picked it in the worst's game

okay, so I just looked and can see that AP picked it, which I feel is probably not generalisable to what a scum mindset might be due to AP's... idiosyncrasies. You were on a team with him, why did he go for it?

[DonCorleone]

I'm not retracting, but I'm also not reaffirming. I still don't see why the vig should claim, if there is a vig. All this is doing is providing more information to scum.

[DonCorleone]

Why would you be fake claiming cop as town? Why would I assume you're town?

I explained the first at the end of the last page. In the case that I'm claiming seriously, I'm trying to draw the protective onto me if there is one. If I'm not the cop then it potentially baits a NK.

And because there's a significantly above 50% chance I'm town from your PoV and there's no real benefit to scum!me from claiming cop?

[DonCorleone]

I want to make sure that you're not the pgo.

You just implied that you didn't think I was town by asking why you should assume I'm town, unless I'm missing something? And yes, I do think you're likely to be scum because I don't see the town motivation in what you've done so far. The fact that you're trying to spin me thinking you're scum and being annoyed that if you're not then you've torpedoed what I was trying to do for no reason

[DonCorleone]

Again, I didn't mean to quote that. I also don't want to overrun the thread with comments at this point, I'm trying to make this alt my relaxed account which hasn't gone tremendously well so far.

Can someone else tell me what they think of Dunn and of my points in 66? I don't think I'm being unreasonable and I don't think he's approaching me in a particularly good faith manner but I might be biased because I'm annoyed he's removed a lot of utility from my claiming.

I don't think Dunn is lock!scum but if you think my case makes sense then I think you should vote for him!

[DonCorleone]

scum picked it in the worst's game

okay, so I just looked and can see that AP picked it, which I feel is probably not generalisable to what a scum mindset might be due to AP's... idiosyncrasies. You were on a team with him, why did he go for it?

he thought he could bait people to visit him and then alert and then kill a bunch of people

i think that scum would go for that tactic and/or to try to get a free vigshot, sure

I mean I guess I don't think that would be a bad pick for scum, but I think that scum picks would be more about denying town viability than choosing like maximum scum help. If I were scum and picking first, I wouldn't be choosing 1s vig or PGO, I'd be choosing cop/1s redirector or doc/rb so town didn't get it.

Idk I still don't like Dunn's push for it but tbf the last time I thought that scum was going for the obvious pro-scum play I was wrong and it the slot flipped town

[DonCorleone]

Why did you feel the need to make a readslist already

I don't get why this is worthy of a vote, CSF. I think if anything scum probably are going to be avoiding readslists so as to not give information or to be forced to commit on how they read different slots

[DonCorleone]

Feels like alot of noise

what feels like noise? I think I was top poster (or maybe Dunn) at this point in the game, so why was fark the one you think was creating noise?

[DonCorleone]

If I'm honest I think it's generally not that worth it trying to sort skitter on D1, in reference to the short chat about her on page 5. I don't think skitter falls into the zone of inherently unsortable because she's so good at scum (not knocking her game) but just that I think she's the sort of person where you're very unlikely to catch her on tone, and much more based on what she's doing in the game and how she's positioned around things later on. Also, if she's town, there's always a pretty good chance she just eats a NK

[DonCorleone]

alduskkel, do you actually think skitter is scummy this game? are you scum reading both skitter and Dunn?

[DonCorleone]

11. Datisi - 1
12. Dunnstral - 1
13. DonCorleone - 1
14. Clemency - 1

This is the scumteam. Ingenious really. No one ever expects the "triple stack on 1 to secure bottom spots for

WIFOM

" play.

~Dawn

Spoiler:

shit, they got us, DISTANCE HARDER DUNN

triple D scumteam for the victory

[DonCorleone]

I like Datisi begrudgingly townleaning skitter lol

can we have a chat about this? why do you like it?

I'm actually coming around to Datisi being scum here, I think. Doesn't look like he's very interested in solving the game, just shitposting and hedging quite a lot with stuff like "lowkey think skitt is towny but she could fake this all" and "assuming hectic is a head of melody so I'll sheep there". It's like he's avoiding responsibility for what he's saying, looking in ISO it's the same thing again where he says that aldus may be scum but talks about how he's drinking in the same post.

And then again there's more where he says how he would called jacksonvirgo townie but won't because he'd seen "scum act completely clueless" elsewhere.

Datisi, what are your actual reads on people? I feel like you're shading a lot but kind of avoiding committing or taking responsiblilty whenever you suggest something is off

[DonCorleone]

plot twist: doctor drew is a hydra of doctorpepper and drew-sta and also doctor drew

Dude, this was told to you in secret.

Also, you were in Big 4 Mafia, right Ald?

RE: My one post and vote.

I subscribe to the Titus school of D1 sucks and is only good as a tool to use on further Days. When I see someone so eagerly trying to act as 'town leader' so early in the Day that raises red flags, really seems forced when town leader is something that just happens, whether mechanically or through something like an IC. What Farken did was very LAMIST and imo not genuine. I probably should have used different vernacular than noise, but I was trying to make the point that they are saying alot with out really saying much.

Also, harkening back to my Titus D1 viewpoint, I tend to skim and get a sense of the flow vs over analyzing every post, didn't even notice there were at votes on Farken......but, why is Farken so worried about the lynch, are you at L-1? I won't even bring up the OMGUS vote on me(as I bring it up lol).

Also I figured Melody wasn't Hectic, Hectic wouldn't vote me here. If you are here though give me a sign, we both know I am cult recruiter and totally would recruit you tonight haha.

in reference to this... I don't know what you're saying about D1. if D1's purpose is mainly to inform reads on later days, why does it matter if someone is trying to act as the town leader? if that person then is clearly leading mislynches and trying to force other voices out or establish hegemony, it should make them easy to catch as scum on like D2 or D3, no. I don't really agree with what you're seeing there either, I don't think farkset has been artificially trying to make themselves town leader, I think they're just a fairly intense player (backed up by what I know of them outside of this) and don't think that's a good reason to have a scumread. and I don't think they're making noise either. They also don't seem that worried about the lynch?

Dunn seems to be overthinking the cop claim a bit(ftr, I don't love the timing of the claim but I want to let it breath a bit), but I do think Don is twisting Dunn's words and assuming his intentions a bit. I lean town on Dunn. And since I mentioned them, null to slight scum on Don, but as I said I want the claim to breath a bit before I am moved one way or another.

where am I twisting Dunn's words, because I feel like that's what he was doing to me? I'll grant you I may have been assuming his attentions a bit which is why I was asking people to check me on whether I was doing that.

---

I don't really scumread drew, I think he's in null for me pending on his responses here, but NB that if Dunn does ever flip scum that drew has partner equity with him

[DonCorleone]

Dunn seems to be overthinking the cop claim a bit(ftr, I don't love the timing of the claim but I want to let it breath a bit), but I do think Don is twisting Dunn's words and assuming his intentions a bit. I lean town on Dunn. And since I mentioned them, null to slight scum on Don, but as I said I want the claim to breath a bit before I am moved one way or another.

@Jackson virgo could you link some of your scum games please?

[DonCorleone]

ugh, I don't know how I keep quoting posts when I don't mean to

[DonCorleone]

doctor pepper can you go through your thought process more on some of your posts? for instance, regarding me and Dunn, what do you think is the town motivation in doubting my claim? why do you think what I've been doing that makes it stuff scum wouldn't do? it feels like you're also trying to avoid really committing on things while giving the illusion of doing anything, more so than either fark or drew at this point

[DonCorleone]

I like Datisi begrudgingly townleaning skitter lol

can we have a chat about this? why do you like it?

I'm actually coming around to Datisi being scum here, I think. Doesn't look like he's very interested in solving the game, just shitposting and hedging quite a lot with stuff like "lowkey think skitt is towny but she could fake this all" and "assuming hectic is a head of melody so I'll sheep there". It's like he's avoiding responsibility for what he's saying, looking in ISO it's the same thing again where he says that aldus may be scum but talks about how he's drinking in the same post.

And then again there's more where he says how he would called jacksonvirgo townie but won't because he'd seen "scum act completely clueless" elsewhere.

Datisi, what are your actual reads on people? I feel like you're shading a lot but kind of avoiding committing or taking responsiblilty whenever you suggest something is off

you're right i'm not very interested in solving because i'm still in the "early stage waiting everyone to post" mode, which i get is weird because i'm aware everyone has posted, but i feel like i don't have enough to work with. the main things happening so far are the don/dunn spat (which i think is tvt but doesn't give me an opportunity to actually contribute anything or futher other reads) and the fark/drdrew spat which i've already given my opinion on.

i'm admiting to being aware my skitter read could be complete bullshit because i had a feeling someone was gonna say "skitter is good as scum she can fake that datisi what are you doing are you pocketing skitter" like i get that she's able to fake it. i'm townleaning her anyway.

{skitt, don, dunn, melody, pepper, farkset}
{jackson, cat, clemency, brass} - null
{drdrew, aldus}

these would be my ~feels~ so far but none of them are very strong because the game is what it is.

Spoiler:

nice distancing.

urgh, I don't know entirely how I feel about this. I guess this is reasonable as a position to take, but I'd like to see more. I don't really feel like you address my issue of you not taking stances when you have been proffering stuff, except for explaining skitter, but at least you've committed to a reads list that I don't hate.

I don't think you do explain what your stance is on fark/drew btw, other than that you're sheeping melody on them based on an assumption that I don't think is a great idea. I could see melody having hectic as a head but I wouldn't say I'm confident enough it's him to want to sheep them.

I don't understand what's separating your null line from your more scumread line? I think mine would go more like

fark, melody
skitt
dunn

as people I think are town from more to less confident

then a whole lot of null, and maybe doctor pepper towards the bottom, with you a little bit above.

talking of, UNVOTE:

also, skitter is really good at scum so she can fake what she's done so far, are you pocketing skitter?

Spoiler:

I think this distancing only works if you scumread me as well

[DonCorleone]

I don't really want to lynch in any content heavy slots unless they're really, really obviously scum. I'd rather use today to eliminate slots that are likely to be harder to sort later on due to being unproductive and then try to lynch scum accurately within a narrower pool later on, hopefully with help from investigatives. and if hopefully at least one of the lurker/low content slots should be scum

[DonCorleone]

Hi, I’ll be around this evening

I hate both of the top wagons, why are people on them?

[DonCorleone]

Precluding either of those slots having scumclaimed while I’ve been away that is

[DonCorleone]

So, I’m not caught up (read: at all), but I did take the time to iso a couple of people and this seemed the most egregious of the bunch

VOTE: alimdia

This feels like scum I think. The push on skitter was bad and didn’t really feel like it makes sense but I think he tried to make it make sense. As in, there is a kind of process being laid out of “this is why skitter is logically scum” but I struggle to see anyone

really

believing it’s scum indicative for her. I could see this being scum trying to do something for the sake of it in the early game, followed by what seems to be a pretty major drop off in effort or desire to scumhunt afterward. Stuff like “nice catch” and “nice save”, avoiding taking stances like on CSF, or asking questions that Jaír aren’t super relevant

(Ftr, in answer to 411 I haven’t reviewed them yet)

[DonCorleone]

What are the cases on fark and melody? Has anyone posted a case even?

[DonCorleone]

Alimidia is almost too scummy to be scum i think tbh

Idk if I want to get into the wifom around that. I think that’s more like dunn calling for the pre-emotive claims and fucking up my cop claim, whereas I think alim is trying to variously blend in and look town. Have a look at him in iso

[DonCorleone]

I mean I think it’s definitely preferable to either of the two people who I think are most likely to be town and who are somehow being wagoned

And tbh, even if he’s not scum I’m not overly concerned by that. I’m less bothered about trying really hard to lynch scum today vs removing as many slots that will be difficult to sort as possible and then solving the content rich ones

[DonCorleone]

I mean I can see the argument that it’s a low info lynch, but fundamentally I don’t think he’s ever eating the NK and I think he’s gonna be a nightmare if he’s town and scum are keeping him around until lylo. Plus I think about half the time the TSTBS slots are actually scum, so bonus if he does flip red

[DonCorleone]

I mean, I do think he’s scummy, I’m just saying that in a case where he is actually TSTBS I don’t think there’s a loss to town from lynching him

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: csf

*waves hand*

That’s not the vote you’re looking for

[DonCorleone]

So err, csf, skitt, melody — would you be willing to compromise on alim if I can get a couple more votes there?

[DonCorleone]

Okay, so melody +CSF probably unaligned then

[DonCorleone]

FWIW I think CSF is probably town from skimming her ISO but I think it’s more tonal than it is substantiated in what’s she’s done. I really have no idea what alignment skitt is (I don’t really like where she’s coming from and I don’t think I’m vibing with her, which is sometimes a scumtell for her as I’d expect her thought processes to be more aligned with me if she were town) but a skitter mislynch would be basically any scum’s wet dream on D1 so I’m not interested in doing that

@skitt has any scumteam ever brought you to lylo with the plan of mislynching you out of paranoia? Because I don’t think it has happened, and that csf is why you need to find someone else to lynch for today

[DonCorleone]

How come?

~Dawn

Because you both called out the exact same post to argue that alim is town. If alim is scum I could maybe see one of you being scum, but I doubt you’d both simultaneously post the same defence either as a white knight or for a buddy

If alim is scum I think at most one of you is, probably neither

[DonCorleone]

What do you think about Aldus, DC?

I mean looking in ISO I think he is trying albeit still lurky. I liked one of his interactions with datisi, where he said something about how if she's going to scumread him for caring then he's going to scumread her for not caring enough, and I like that he was with me on Dunn even though I've come around on that.

I don't really get the melody vote which seemed like a limp on, but equally idk if scum would change vote there if already under suspicion which I think he was.

I find datisi calling him "caring" weird because while he's higher effort than several slots, he's still in the lower half in terms of effort.

I think he's probably town for the first couple of points, but low impact enough that I'd probably compromise there if we can't do one of the slots I want

[DonCorleone]

Skitter, I have to say I had a really fun time last night at 3 am engaging your reads you really did earn that rep and I'm sorry it has been used against you in the past and will probably still be done.

literally from last night @don
his whole push on me in lylo was based on paranoia, and i called him out on it

i'm not sure what this has to do with my push on csf tho

yeah, but I don't mean getting pushed for paranoia, I'm saying have scum ever decided to take the risk of bringing town you all the way to lylo to push a paranoia mislynch on you, or do they chicken out and NK you

because I think you're a dumb lynch, but that if scum don't do that (and I don't remember them doing it) then you probably self-resolve one way or another. which means we can move past you v csf and get on with lynching where I want!

[DonCorleone]

(I don’t really like where she’s coming from and I don’t think I’m vibing with her, which is sometimes a scumtell for her as I’d expect her thought processes to be more aligned with me if she were town)

also hmmmm maybe i know who you are now?

also what don't you like?

I just don't really agree with your scumreads? and think you're kind of hedgy on people who I do think are scummy.

like I don't see why csf is scummy, but if you see csf as scummy I don't see why you're not also reading aldus as scummy as I think they're broadly similar (not loads of content but have some stuff that makes me lean them towards being town)

[DonCorleone]

also I'd be surprised if you know who I am, I'm familiar with you but we haven't played that many games together

[DonCorleone]

hello, Iconeum!

[DonCorleone]

datisi, am I right in thinking you have some history with Iconeum? how do you read his entrance?

[DonCorleone]

drdrew

when you get back talk me through this one, or point me at where you went into it before, because it's news. I think you're wrong on melody btw, happy to talk about it if you like. I still haven't caught up lol but I highly doubt melody managed to do anything scummy enough to shake my impression from when I was playing harder end of last week

[DonCorleone]

also, I'm confused: has your read on melody shifted from town to scum or am I interpreting that right as you still think they're likely scum but you don't want to lynch them because they're a high content slot?

[DonCorleone]

okay, in that case, icon can you tell me what you make of Datisi's slot when you get back please and specifically what you think of 208 and whether you think that's consistent with town!him

re:aldus yeah, I meant to write the other thing but I still like it as a take

[DonCorleone]

yeah, but I don't mean getting pushed for paranoia, I'm saying have scum ever decided to take the risk of bringing town you all the way to lylo to push a paranoia mislynch on you, or do they chicken out and NK you

so from like day1, no, no one's ever planned from that point of the game to set me up as the lylo mislynch
but night before lylo, some scum will keep me alive to push that narrative, yeah

right, so therefore it's not very beneficial to lynch you on D1 unless you're like very very obviously scum, so hopefully CSF will leave this alone now

[DonCorleone]

I just don't really agree with your scumreads? and think you're kind of hedgy on people who I do think are scummy.

like I don't see why csf is scummy, but if you see csf as scummy I don't see why you're not also reading aldus as scummy as I think they're broadly similar (not loads of content but have some stuff that makes me lean them towards being town)

right, so who am i hedging on?

i'm pretty sure i know who csf's main is, and i don't think her current behavior is characterisitic of town!her, whereas i do believe that aldu's is, and i also think that aldu shitposting with aldu in thread is townie for him, or at least something that i imagine would be hard for him to do as scum

I think you've been kind of soft-protecting dunn/alim/aldus and you've been hedgy on melody. as in on the first two I think you've been calling them town but softly, as in if they did go through you'd be in a position to get some cred for not being on them but you're not committed to a hard TR on either so you could backtrack quite easily if you need to. and the same on melody, I just feel like your towered-to-gut-scumping could quite easily be you leaving room around them so you can change your position up however you want

and then I don't like your CSF scumread either, although I didn't realise she was an alt which means I'll have another look there. I thought she was a newbie, so if she's not that changes things as I was basically just taking her behaviour as being probably non-strategic

[DonCorleone]

She's not pushing my lynch tho?
Literally nobody is rn

I skimmed a few pages, but I'm basically caught up.

Town:
Datisi, Farkset, DonCorleone(?)

Townlean:
Dunn, DoctorPepper, Melody, JacksonVirgo

Null:
Drew, Clemency, brass, Alim

Scum/Scumlean:
Aldus, skitter

skitter I feel like is defending aldu disproportionately to the strength of her townread on that slot, and I'm not really following her votes. Like why would she try to compromise with Farkset if she's not very sure that slot is town?

her recent iso has been fairly dominated by talk about you but yeah she's not pushing you actively, my bad

[DonCorleone]

right I gotta bounce but I'll be around again later

[DonCorleone]

Yo busy couple of days but I should have time for this tomorrow

Can someone leave an explainer under this on roughly where the game is at since about 10 pages ago

I think I remember someone talking about lynchpools so:

Wouldn’t lynch any of (fark, melody, Dunn, skitt, aldus, csf) today

Willing to compromise outside of that tomorrow, strongly prefer not to go inside that list

[DonCorleone]

To be clear, I wouldn’t say I TR skitt but I don’t see her as a good lynch today whatsoever

[DonCorleone]

I’m still not caught up, and I see that no one took the time to catch me up after my last posts

[DonCorleone]

Right, anyway, here goes: the fact that this game has been so quiet even in light of what would have been imminent deadline if not for the replacement means that almost definitely our two competing wagons are TvT. In terms of where scum is, I think that means a higher than average concentration in the lurky slots. I suppose that farkset or skitter could be playing a deep scum game but that’s to be worried about later.

So now there is a double incentive to go after the slots that are low activity, beyond playing to ensure the late game win. Like for god’s sake, town loses so many games because the “personalities” get into dick measuring contests of seeing who has the biggest one and then scum just have to do enough to not be on the bottom of the pile by the time lylo rolls around. Whereas if you actually just acknowledge that one of the active slots may be scum but that /most/ are *purely statistically* town, then you can get to a consensus point where /if/ you end up in lylo after removing the slots that will be inevitable mislynch bait or really hard to sort behind random, then you end up with people who you can, idk, actually look at the trajectory of and decide if it’s more likely town or scum

[DonCorleone]

Scum here is going to be in the people who are trying to look like they care about the wagons but are secretly just hoping that nobody realises the stasis means they’re happy with the gamestate

Can we please get some more votes on alimdia now, who I don’t really think has improved since my vote on him, and even given the arguments made in favour of his towniness I think his low activity also fits. We could do brassherald!slot too, but I’m willing to see if not_mafia improves that or not

[DonCorleone]

I mean I have a bet on that last question, but we’ll see if I’m right or not

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: alimdia

There is a way to turn this around from lynching two very likely town slots who will be *easy to sort later* onto lynching *very likely scum slots who will be very difficult to sort later* but only if some of you are willing to work together on it instead of feeling like you need to win the lynch agenda today. Alim is my preference, I think he ticks all the boxes for what scum would be doing, but I’ll work with it if we don’t have the votes. Farkset, melody, aldus, skitter — please take a moment to look at what I’m saying here and realise that I’m making sense

[DonCorleone]

Jackson, you should join me on alimdia or state your preference for a low activity slot to lynch if you have strong reasons to object to an alimdia lynch (in which case you should also lay out those reasons and why my gamestate analysis is wrong)

[DonCorleone]

Hello, what the hell is going on

[DonCorleone]

Initial thought after skimming last page is that alim seems to have been resisted heavily since I got him run up, and I think that’s telling. Alimdia, claim which PR you got because I’m sceptical that you got something that low down in the draft

[DonCorleone]

there's still the thing that i have seen huge resistance against his wagon and i feel like the almidia wagon is quite terrible atm and being used as a counterwagon to save him.

I’m skimming because honestly I thought I wouldn’t have to worry about this game until tomorrow if then, but I have the opposite take here fark. Aldus wagon was static for days and the game state lethargied with it —> lethargic game state means that scum were happy with things and not resisting that lynch going through as the compromise at end of day, seeing as the lynch nearly always defaults onto the largest wagon at end of day. Whereas alim wagon became the logical choice when he went up, and there’s been resistance to getting him to L-1, followed by what I now think is a very shaky PR claim that avoids actually specifying a PR (presumably because if scum then he’s taking a punt on which PR might not be already taken)

[DonCorleone]

Doing jackson or N_M today is pretty obviously (1) a bad idea and (2) not something we should do today because it’s obviously a bad idea if you stop and think for half a second about percentages

[DonCorleone]

*Sigh* goddamnit

VOTE: datisi

This may be better. I think he’s been actively avoiding producing content and is basically scum apathy telling. Stronger start followed by a tailing off due to lack of knowing what to say, and I think that him saying he has no reads may well be true but because he isn’t able to due to being informed.

[DonCorleone]

I’m willing to listen on other slots if someone gives me good reasons underneath but so far you’ve been trying to lynch my top townreads all day and I’m not getting on board with that

[DonCorleone]

By “you” I just mean the playerlist in general. Like I think the only good wagon we’ve had so far has been alimdia, and even that is only good in terms of the slot it’s on, rather than having particularly good wagon composition from where I’m sitting.

People need to stop trying to lynch melody. Also, why is Drew not being considered? This latest push for people to lynch skitter is not a hot look, and I still dislike how he jumped in to start defending dunn so early when I made that very very early push on him

[DonCorleone]

Would probably like to lynch alim -> datisi -> drew -> iconeum/drpepper

I’m not willing to lynch outside those names today, be that because of TRs or because of where I think PRs are likely to be stacked. Like I said, I should be back by deadline to move back to alim if he hasn’t claimed a specific role by deadline or because this town is too afraid of a possible PR mislynch to go for what is likely an overly worried scum fakeclaim

[DonCorleone]

Alim, explicitly claim a PR by deadline or get lynched

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: alim

I’m prepared to go back to datisi but I think keeping th pressure here is more important if people (read: dunn) are going to continue to try to misplay this mechanically

If alimdia has a PR and isn’t scum, it’s a lower order PR. If he is scum, it’s much more pressure on him to have to claim the specific role

[DonCorleone]

there's still the thing that i have seen huge resistance against his wagon and i feel like the almidia wagon is quite terrible atm and being used as a counterwagon to save him.

I’m skimming because honestly I thought I wouldn’t have to worry about this game until tomorrow if then, but I have the opposite take here fark. Aldus wagon was static for days and the game state lethargied with it —> lethargic game state means that scum were happy with things and not resisting that lynch going through as the compromise at end of day, seeing as the lynch nearly always defaults onto the largest wagon at end of day. Whereas alim wagon became the logical choice when he went up, and there’s been resistance to getting him to L-1, followed by what I now think is a very shaky PR claim that avoids actually specifying a PR (presumably because if scum then he’s taking a punt on which PR might not be already taken)

I don’t think scum were happy with having aldus as the top wagon? There’s been a lot of counterwagons to aldus

Drew
Melody
Alim

Idk, I missed what led to the melody wagon so if that was a direct CW to aldus then maybe you have a point, but drew never took off did he? And alim only happened to the extent that he did because I hard pushed for that and then stalled out under heavy resistance

I guess we’ll find out now though

[DonCorleone]

Initial thought after skimming last page is that alim seems to have been resisted heavily since I got him run up, and I think that’s telling. Alimdia, claim which PR you got because I’m sceptical that you got something that low down in the draft

In your skim, have you like... even read any of the stuff I'm saying?

there's still the thing that i have seen huge resistance against his wagon and i feel like the almidia wagon is quite terrible atm and being used as a counterwagon to save him.

I’m skimming because honestly I thought I wouldn’t have to worry about this game until tomorrow if then, but I have the opposite take here fark. Aldus wagon was static for days and the game state lethargied with it —> lethargic game state means that scum were happy with things and not resisting that lynch going through as the compromise at end of day, seeing as the lynch nearly always defaults onto the largest wagon at end of day. Whereas alim wagon became the logical choice when he went up, and there’s been resistance to getting him to L-1, followed by what I now think is a very shaky PR claim that avoids actually specifying a PR (presumably because if scum then he’s taking a punt on which PR might not be already taken)

There are quite a few people telling me not to claim which PR.

I mean, only what you’d posted on like the page before this, I’m not caught up and I think I’ve been fairly clear about that

I guess we’re gonna see. If you’re alive tomorrow and aldus flips town then you’re claiming

[DonCorleone]

Don, you are also trying to make everything fit on me, no matter what happens on my wagon

> a bunch of people not contributing -> you single me out
> I start contributing -> my wagon stalled -> you said because scum is stalling my wagon

so if my wagon gets larger, what would you say? Does that mean I'm town? If not, then whether my wagon gets larger or gets stalled cannot be used as part of the argument.

Also, its rich of you to say that I could have not been a PR because I'm so low on the draft when... you hardclaimed cop as 2nd lowest

I mean, that’s missing the additional context of what happened. I did call you out specifically, but I mentioned some other names and I’ve made it clear that my lynchpool is not just your name. What happened was that I wasn’t as interested in jackson or NM due to draft order but didn’t want to draw attention to that, and I was TRing dunn

You on the other hand I wasn’t and I think you’d also avoided putting out a lot of content. I think your wagon stalled before you put out any content and even then if it’s similar to what you put out the last couple of pages I don’t think you’re a content heavy slot even having done that, I think it’s mostly busywork and I can see it fitting with your scumplay from GnR III where my impression was that you were active lurking

[DonCorleone]

Also, its rich of you to say that I could have not been a PR because I'm so low on the draft when... you hardclaimed cop as 2nd lowest

And fmpov... I’m meant to believe that not one but two low draft picks got PRs? Out of like 7 total?

[DonCorleone]

i was town with DonC in G&R, was vibing a lot more there with him

I’m pretty sure you were insistent on wanting to vig me on D1 because you thought my takes were terrible? This doesn’t sound like how you thought of me in GnR from my memory at all. In fact I think you only started treating me as not being someone you wanted dead because I was literally conftown

[DonCorleone]

wait were you in GnR3?

No, I recently played GnR IV and read the previous editions

[DonCorleone]

lmao donc's comment annoys me so much i wanna vote him


lmao donc's comment annoys me so much i wanna vote him

Why, what’s inaccurate there?

[DonCorleone]

Also:

Jv, doctor drew, datisi, dc, and nm really all need to do more

I’m... the fourth most active slot this game and have actively led a wagon, if you can’t sort me based on that with the expectation that my activity will continue roughly the same unless/until the amount of posting reduces then I can’t help you

[DonCorleone]

i was town with DonC in G&R, was vibing a lot more there with him

I’m pretty sure you were insistent on wanting to vig me on D1 because you thought my takes were terrible? This doesn’t sound like how you thought of me in GnR from my memory at all. In fact I think you only started treating me as not being someone you wanted dead because I was literally conftown

i don't remember day 1 at all

only late/end game

it's not about townreading you, but viiiibing

You mean when my mechanical chances of hitting scum were 66%?

I’ll be honest icon, it’s pretty easy to hit scum when you have a raw 2/3 chance. I think you should take a look back and consider how you were towards me on D1 because the main reason why I’m not scumreading you here is because I think you’re reminiscent of GnR only a bit more active

[DonCorleone]

Why is drew not a thing? Someone said he was a wagon earlier, why did that die?

[DonCorleone]

lmao donc's comment annoys me so much i wanna vote him

Why, what’s inaccurate there?

it's funny

towngame after towngame i get shit like
> "datisi is lurking, scum"
> "datisi isn't invested in this game, scum"
> "datisi doesn't have reads, scum"
> "datisi doesn't know how to fake reads, scum"
> "datisi doesn't have progressions and trajectories, scum"
> "datisi isn't as towny as in micro 900, scum"

but

BUT

once i actually do roll scum, everyone townreads me

pedit: holy fuk chill

Iconeum, does this ring true to you?

[DonCorleone]

Wait he claimed neighbouriser and then the wagon disappeared? What page did this happen on and more significantly why does town claim neighbouriser if they have third pick?

[DonCorleone]

You mean when my mechanical chances of hitting scum were 66%?I’ll be honest icon, it’s pretty easy to hit scum when you have a raw 2/3 chance. I think you should take a look back and consider how you were towards me on D1 because the main reason why I’m not scumreading you here is because I think you’re reminiscent of GnR only a bit more active

Ur right about the facts that I didn't take into account. We were both conftown when I vibed with you, despite not entirely agreeing on reads.

Tho I actually did townread you early D1 and I only went full retard when you were pushing me

Right, that was my point, it’s much easier to work with someone who’s conf to you, that’s the whole point of masons. So yeah, I don’t think this is a good take unless you’re still not vibing with me by later game

Also, oog, not the best word choice?

[DonCorleone]

Why are we assuming that scum PR drew doesn’t claim a partner’s PR for the WIFOM?

[DonCorleone]

As in, if drew got roleblocker then he can’t claim doctor and explain why he’s not dead. But if scum lower down got neighbouriser or fruit vendor then he can safeclaim that. I’m really not seeing how the claim makes him town given that he could just... be lying?

[DonCorleone]

Why are we assuming that scum PR drew doesn’t claim a partner’s PR for the WIFOM?

Keep reading

-F

It’s kind of hard to both get some of that sweet real time interaction and catch up simultaneously

[DonCorleone]

Fine, I’ll go read it

[DonCorleone]

I have some other stuff to do so I may be gone over an hour, if people can definitely still be around come deadline I’d appreciate if no one hammered before I get back

[DonCorleone]

I have a clear on CSF

also I feel like an A+ moron, but I think skitter is very probably town based on D1. I don't think she hard defends a buddy that blatantly all day and I also don't think she kills melody (who she'd been pushing as scum) because that feels like it undermines the groundwork she would have been laying.

I also think if scum were going to take the same number they wouldn't do it on a number that high where it would likely bump them to the very bottom. I think it's more likely that they'd take a midrange number twice to still get (probably) reasonable draft position

Datisi felt like he could be bussing there unwillingly

VOTE: datisi

[DonCorleone]

I actually really don't like a lot of drpepper's posting but I think he was voting in the same places as me for like over half of D1 and I think that speaks to towniness. I don't agree with his farkset take though.

drpepper, why do you think farkset are scum?

[DonCorleone]

DC, how interested are you in a defense based on meta?

given that you're aware enough of your own meta to want to defend yourself with it, not that interested.

I'm not gonna tell you to stop if you think you have a smoking gun to prove your innocence though

[DonCorleone]

I have a clear on CSF

why not jv or nm

I felt kinda paranoid about my CSF read after being so wrong on aldus and I figured that the top slots were most likely to eat a NK

[DonCorleone]

why JV?

[DonCorleone]

wow I feel so special

[DonCorleone]

you're all waiting on lil old me? lemme catch up 2 secs

[DonCorleone]

3. i think you should have checked jv or nm because if they're town they're going to end up mislynched at some point, which would suck. that's a very suboptimal check imo

I think I already explained this, but it felt like if either/both were town then they were high equity kill shots for scum which would also be a waste? whereas CSF was someone who I think was unlikely to die but who was within the bounds of mafianess and therefore a useful kill, especially given the arguing yesterday

also your push on alimida kinda looks like trying to divert off a partner @dc

I mean I was wrong on aldus which meant my entire understanding of the game state was wrong -- you were also insisting that aldus was town, so why is it like trying to divert off a partner when I tried to push away towards alim but your attempts to derail aldus weren't, unless you would say that those were like attempts to divert off a partner

[DonCorleone]

you realize that i was given ample oppurtunity at eod to avoid the aldu lynch and i went with it anyways tho,right? i could have forced a nolynch or a melody lynch

also, I'm not a fan of this skitt. I don't think you could have as others (i.e. me) would have compromised onto aldus last minute if needed. and I don't think there was appetite for a melody lynch, because fark asked around at some point like a day or so beforehand and there wasn't sufficient interest. it was one of the things that made me think that aldus was +town as scum didn't seem to want to try to shift onto melody who was like my top TR

[DonCorleone]

I actually really don't like a lot of drpepper's posting but I think he was voting in the same places as me for like over half of D1 and I think that speaks to towniness. I don't agree with his farkset take though.

drpepper, why do you think farkset are scum?

So here the thing. I've had Farkset in my scumdar for the whole day and something didn't sit well with me with how the easily tried to paint me as scum for that hammer.

Btw that was a lol hammer for deadline sake. A lot of people expressed 'oh i think you'll flip town but we gotta get a lynch' yet somehow I was scummy there? That's a whole load of crap.

I mean i don't think he's trying to paint you as scum really? in his most recent post he argues that you're the most likely to be town in the people who sheeped me on alim. and I think the correct position on the hammer is NAI. I don't think scum would be hesitant to hammer their buddy, but I also don't think they'd leap at the chance

I think that more or less aligns with fark's position on you based on the recent post

[DonCorleone]

Ok so turns out my availability might not be as good as i thought so

VOTE: aldus

Might be able to check in here and there but no promises

Yeah Dats could have claimed they weren't online if they didn't bus Aldus

DC dats is probably town

idk, I'm listening but I don't think this is as good as you think given that Datisi had just voted melody and then was coming back onto aldus once fark changed his vote back. that to me looks more like someone realising that there are enough people around that with no appetite for melody, aldus is probably defaulting into being the lynch and wanting to make sure the positioning is good.

the main thing that makes me unsure is couching it in the "not sure if I'll be available so I'm gonna vote now" thing. idk if scum would think like that or would think to make their vote using that justification

[DonCorleone]

Datisi felt like he could be bussing there unwillingly

VOTE: datisi

What about it felt like a bus?

I think I semi-covered this in my last post, but also datisi professing a lack of reads throughout and kind of looking to go elsewhere when it was available, but coming back to it when that wasn't doable. like it wasn't something he really wanted, but something he felt he had to do due to the gamestate to try to avoid suspicion. although my gamestate reads were terrible yesterday lol

[DonCorleone]

dc why do you think you didn't die?

I gotta couple of theories

[DonCorleone]

I counter claim cop

oh, spicy

also, dunn, you're an idiot

[DonCorleone]

I think it's fairly apparent that I'm not the cop, and that scum probably figured that out based on the fact that IT WAS A MEME CLAIM that I then ran with

I was planning to out probably tomorrow but maybe the day after with the hope that the real cop would have more results. alternatively, scum has the cop role and that's why they let me fake claim this, or they have a counter to it like rb or jk (but I wouldn't know bc I have no NA)

I claimed CSF because that's actually my most confident TR now and I didn't want to fuck the game up by claiming a fake inno on someone who I thought could plausibly be scum (JV/NM). there was some stuff in CSF ISO that I thought was very, very clearing for them re:aldus!flip so I felt most comfortable putting them off the table for today.

now I know Dunn didn't investigate me, because if he had then he'd be staying shut the fuck up, so I hope he has a red elsewhere because if not then on top of him fishing yesterday this is the worst play in the history of bad plays

[DonCorleone]

DC, what do you think of me now? I'll have to do some analysis because I did not expect Aldu to flip scum at all. I thought melody would flip scum. The fact that melody died over .... the top draft people or even the cop claim implies that either one of the top draft people are scum and/or they felt that melody was so confirmed town that it was a priority kill over all.

p.s. I may or may not have lied about being a PR

idk, you're also somewhat +town now for aldus flipping 2. I definitely think that my analysis of why you were scum was wrong so you're back in a "to be sorted" pool for me where I'm gonna run through your content again. the main thing I dislike is you kind of retracting your PR claim because if that's true then you risked forcing another PR to out unnecessarily just to survive, which I don't think is very town vs trying to out a PR potentially if you're scum. but equally, this could just be bad play, I don't think you're inherently scum for it especially when balanced against the mechanical reason to clear you of aldus flipping 2

[DonCorleone]

The bad play may have been fake claiming cop and providing elaborate justifications for your night actions

If scum knew you were fake claiming there's no reason for you to continue fake claiming. People won't believe me if I try to cc on day 3

Also, you pushing me day 1 for doubting your claim is suspect considering you're not the role you said you were

But whatever, I'd probably need to out today regardless; I checked JacksonVirgo, he's town

you pushing me D1 felt like you might be TMIing -- I didn't really think anyone as low down as we are would be getting a role that strong, but scum!you could have known that I was fake claiming if a buddy had the role. and I really don't think trying to out the vig/PGO was a good move

and scum may have known I was fake claiming, but it's also very possible that they might have used a blocking action on me in which case I kind of succeeded. although I do now realise what you mean, that they would have known when I claimed my clear today that I was fake claiming

[DonCorleone]

the main thing I dislike is you kind of retracting your PR claim because if that's true then you risked forcing another PR to out unnecessarily just to survive, which I don't think is very town vs trying to out a PR potentially if you're scum. but equally, this could just be bad play, I

If mafia know you're fake claiming, why are you still lying to just the town?

huh? idk what you're saying, how would mafia know alim was fakeclaiming if he's town fakeclaiming?

[DonCorleone]

oh, you didn't mean to quote?

I didn't realise that mafia would know I was fake if I'd been blocked and was giving the result anyway

I still think CSF is a very safe bet for town, so I thought calling a correct TR might enhance the likelihood of them believing me today and NKing me tonight

[DonCorleone]

people I'm not really interested in lynching today: dunn, JV, CSF, fark, skitt, alim

people I could be talked round on: drpepper

people I'm okay with lynching today: icon, drew, NM

people I want to lynch today: datisi

[DonCorleone]

Town fakeclaiming cop is gamethrowing, i'm not going to accept that.

[DonCorleone]

datisi datisi datisi i summon thee

what are your thoughts on dunnstral and alimdia?

(also NM are you planning on actually doing something?)

i don't have any aaaaaaaaaa

alright good talk

alright

prooooobably not S/S interacting?

fairly hard disagree? this reminds me of lilith and Maria talking in GnR -- interaction with very little substance behind it that I think can easily be for show

[DonCorleone]

ftr, I like the dragon a bit more for page 54 and fark a little bit less. I don't think fark being excessively rigid is scum!indicative for him, I think that's just personality indicative, nor do I think I necessarily agree entirely with icon's take on what should be done re: both claims, but what I did like was icon actually standing up and arguing for it while under fire. idk if scum!icon does that

[DonCorleone]

okay I skimmed between there and this post to finish catching up. I have one more deadline for something that's due tomorrow so i'l be working on that today, but I'll probably dip into the forums from time to time to see what's up

fyi, it's not a great idea to just not play the game if someone is unavailable. like I appreciate that needing to sort between dunn and me was important, but I'm still pretty sure there was other stuff that could have been talked about instead of just letting things pretty much entirely idle until I got back today

[DonCorleone]

why does that "make you unsure" exactly? like that's a pretty easy thing to say no?

unsure as in I don't know if scum would think to say it, as in tonally it's quite casual and that's giving me a bit of pause

I still think you're very likely scum. whatever happened to that meta-defence you were going to provide?

[DonCorleone]

why does not lynching outside of me and Dunn lead to such a horrible gamestate, fark?

I actually think Dunn's outing today was a good move because fhpov I was plausibly scum and he made me realise that scum (if they blocked me) would now know that I fake claimed and wasn't the real cop. what's the advantage to lynching in me (town) and dunn (overwhelmingly likely TPR) vs lynching in my scumpool?

[DonCorleone]

I'll be around a little later today, consider this a soft-prodge

[DonCorleone]

so, what's the tea friends?

[DonCorleone]

no idea why Datisi is getting a total pass today but he's not voting me which is mild +points

VOTE: drpepper

would still prefer in [datisi, NM, drew] for today but I'm also okay with compromising on drpepper or icon. it's actually a bad look for both of them that they're on me imo, and correspondingly a mild improvement from datisi that he's avoiding it despite my pushing him. the flip side of that is that if he thinks I'm going down anyway then he might want to stay off in the hopes of me softening on him once people look at where I was trying to go and why scum wanted to lynch me today > the alternatives

[DonCorleone]

why does that "make you unsure" exactly? like that's a pretty easy thing to say no?

unsure as in I don't know if scum would think to say it, as in tonally it's quite casual and that's giving me a bit of pause

I still think you're very likely scum. whatever happened to that meta-defence you were going to provide?

do you think faking tone like that is out of my scumrange? or is that the tone of that post strikes you as different than my tone in other posts?

you were gone for 3 days

i'm debating with myself if it's worth digging around for the links i need when (1) you probably won't care either way and (2) there's a chance you get lynched today kekw

It's less that I don't think you'd be capable of it and more that I just don't know if scum would think "yeah, I should couch my bus in this and make sure that people know I'm only changing because it's EoD" vs trying to get credit for the switch by making the justification around "yeah, I see now how aldus is scummy etc so I think he's a better alternative because of that" sort of deal

and yeah, I was, but that's surely still no reason not to post it so that I could look when I get back AND for the benefit of people other than me (although apparently no-one else thinks you're scummy lol)

[DonCorleone]

The more i play this game, the more i think that town lying or town wanting to keep secrets is a cancer against town victory. I mean, i understand that people want to have fun with their information but it needs to be outed when it's useful, keeping it to your death is not going to help town win, it only helps your ego feel satisfied.

We should not lynch outside of don/dunn because there is no reason to do so, this 1v1 makes neither of them town, the VCA is terrible against both. I'm much more inclined to believe dunn is the true cop, but it doesn't have to be a town cop - that's a theory i want to test later - whereas doncorleone has done nothing towny so far.

The jailkeeper should out because it helps us win. It does not need to say who he's going to block. It doesn't even need to say he's jailkeeper or tracker, just that there is a person occupying that slot which puts his life on the line on the account of saving the cop. Scum cannot kill everyone in a single night.

-Farkran

there is no 1v1 though? why is the VCA so terrible, and how has your position changed on me so fast from "in my top TRs" to "has done nothing towny so far"? because if you thought it was a meme claim, which is what you've said, then you were finding me towny BASED ON PLAY. which means that I cannot see how you're now claiming that I've done nothing towny.

I also don't see the relevance to the first bit of what you've posted here. I outed as soon as it became a risk. I'd thought the cop was probably in JV/NM if we had one, and that they'd check me and let me keep up the fake claim as cover. I didn't think through that it would out me as fake claiming if scum tried to role block or JK me, which dunn pointed out, but as soon as it became clear that it was a risk to town, I outed and explained why I went for it.

do you seriously think CSF is scum here? I don't think CSF is ever scum after that D1, and that means that my calling a fake inno there was very minimal risk, ESPECIALLY given that if I was killed tonight, everyone could look at CSF again knowing that the inno was faked.

and finally, if I were scum here, why would I not just keep up my fakeclaim against dunn and go for getting him lynched? it would buy me and my scum team 2 NKs and a relatively wasted day phase tomorrow because everyone would have known I was being lynched every time. it's also a huge gamble if for scum!me to not keep up the fake claim and go for getting dunn lynched because it would make a lot of sense for him to check me, at which point backing down would just be a guaranteed Lynch on me.

it's like you're disregarding all of the reasons I'm town to keep pushing the idea that one of dunn or me should be lynched today, and that now I've admitted the fake claim, thereby clearing dunn, that it should be me

[DonCorleone]

Dc you really should not have done that. It sounded like a fake-claim, especially the checking csf bit

I wasn't necessarily planning to go for that and was kind of hoping that it would be an issue that could be brushed to the side. like I said, I feel very confident that CSF is town, and I needed my claim to be believable to scum if I still wanted to try to draw the NK. I was aware that scum could have thought I was joking and not targeted me for that reason.

[DonCorleone]

Town wouldn't pick RB over doctor. At least i want to hope so. Therefore it's pointless to have doc/rb claim, if they're town they shouldn't claim, if they're scum they won't.

Anyways, do you guys have experience with doncorleone or dunn to say that this kind of play is town indicative for them? Because to be honest i don't, and their VC is really bad. I'd rather have DC removed today, avoid wifom and go for a partial mech/partial read-based progression than let both of them live and regret it later. Pursuing a pure read-based lynch in this gamestate is a bad strategy imo and it leaves more questions unanswered than we have now.

Datisi could be bussing scum but it's nowhere near my best bet, even when considering outside of the cops.

-Farkran

also, why is my VC so bad when you were removing me from that pool earlier? why are you now so insistent on lynching me, and why would you regret it later?

[DonCorleone]

Do you think that if scum had a PR and a Goon remaining, the Goon would attack? I believe so

yeah probably

[DonCorleone]

I'd still much rather lynch doncorleone today. I don't want him anywhere near lylo. However, with the purpose of cooperating with town if we don't want to go there, i can compromise on {Iconeum, Datisi, DoctorPepper}

you also have practically the same pool as me, and the only way I'm a liability in lylo is if people keep trying to paint my actions as scum motivated as opposed to town motivated, which is the narrative that YOU YOURSELF ARE CREATING in order to push for my lynch because of me being a lylo liability. it's a circular argument

why should we lynch DC? he's a lylo risk
why is he a lylo risk? because he did an anti-town thing
does that mean he's scum? no, but he's a lylo risk

^^^that's damn near to what your argument is, minus that you're now arguing that VCA is worse for me than for others + dismissing all the prior reasoning you had on town!me

[DonCorleone]

I think that what I did was pro-town overall. there was a chance for me to eat the NK last night, and if dunn had checked me then I would have had an even better chance if I'd not made the midl screw up of not claiming "no useful result" or something, in case I'd been countered

ftr, if there's a 1s vig who shot me or melody you should prob claim now because I think it would be clearing for me and confirm that we have a town doc or that there's a jk in the game

[DonCorleone]

The bad play may have been fake claiming cop and providing elaborate justifications for your night actions

If scum knew you were fake claiming there's no reason for you to continue fake claiming. People won't believe me if I try to cc on day 3

Also, you pushing me day 1 for doubting your claim is suspect considering you're not the role you said you were

But whatever, I'd probably need to out today regardless; I checked JacksonVirgo, he's town

Good clear

VOTE: donc

Haven't read past that and won't until Tuesday

lol and we're acting like this slot will be fine to have in lylo, also that he's one of the first people on me

moving icon back down to low scumpool

[DonCorleone]

Do you want him around for lylo?

funny how the scummiest slots in the game are keen to sheep the votes on me and argue that I'm a lylo liability, despite dunn pointing out immediately after this that we're a ways off that yet, and lynching me is just going to get town there faster. also, acting like there aren't multiple other slots that aren't going to be just as hard. like, based on that logic, we should be lynching NM today 100% because have fun sorting 20 posts of content and trying to decide if its scum or mislynch bait being pushed in lylo

whereas if you can't see that I'm town by lylo with me spewing as hard as I can, that's a you problem not a me problem

[DonCorleone]

I'd still much rather lynch doncorleone today. I don't want him anywhere near lylo.

ok
dc is scum fake-claiming cop ... what does he think the real cop is going to do ... not check him? is he just gambling from like p2 that there isn't a cop?

walk me through what scum!dc is thinking all game

right, thank you

[DonCorleone]

jv why are you so scummy this game ?

skitter, what's your take on drew in the PT? has he been active/solving there?

[DonCorleone]

I'd still much rather lynch doncorleone today. I don't want him anywhere near lylo.

ok
dc is scum fake-claiming cop ... what does he think the real cop is going to do ... not check him? is he just gambling from like p2 that there isn't a cop?

walk me through what scum!dc is thinking all game

I thought DC claim was a meme until he offered a inno on CSF. That was the moment when i stopped believing it was a meme a considered DC as a true cop because town lying about innos should never happen if you actually care about winning the game.

As an obvious (since DC isn't a true cop) consequence of that statement, Dunnstral counterclaimed, then DC retracted the claim. As a result, now we have an outed cop and no more info than we had before. This is a perfect situation for a scum gambit if they couldn't get their hands on the good roles - maybe they didn't expect to lose one of their own d1 and doncorleone wanted to bait a counterclaim assuming that only he would fall, but once the cogs started running they had to continue with the plan regardless of d1 result.

It's not just a mech or policy lynch though, doncorleone played antitown + has a terrible vote progression + why wasn't he killed n1? Unfortunately this is also true for dunn, except that dunn would have never been killed n1

Anyways, now DC will never be nk'ed, so we will meet in lylo unless we win earlier, which is not a bet i am willing to make. DC must be removed today, Dunn must be protected without getting blocked (hence why the jailkeeper should claim now) and offer results each day.

-Farkran

I've already made points (just above) that would work as responses to this and I don't want to hit a dead horse but one final point is that you seem very eager to ascribe a scum motivation to what I've done instead of looking at it and trying to discern if it's scummy or towny -- you seem to have decided that it's scummy and are now trying to argue to support that. instead of thinking about my logic from the situation where I'm town and how it makes sense from that point of view. namely, what was the point in trying to bait the NK if it just meant giving up the claim immediately the next day, especially when I hoped that the cop would have checked me and would know I was an inno, so they'd know not to CC, scum would be forced to take my claim seriously, and the real cop would be able to out tomorrow with an additional clear. or if scum were blocking me, maybe they'd have made another day if I'd had the foresight to claim blocked or to refuse to confirm my result.

you seem to be trying to actively create the notion that I'll never be NK'd but that's dependent on everyone choosing to interpret my play as scummy and not seeing how town motivated it was.

not to mention, how is my vote progression so terrible when I have literally the same reads as you by and large? think about what you're saying

[DonCorleone]

farkran has slipped a bit for me but I still think he's town

I've seen him tunnel based on his own (wrong) logic more than once before and I'm inclined to think that's what he's doing here. but I don't like that he's trying so hard to justify pushing my Lynch today or the angle that he's coming at it from. I just don't think him specifically coming at it from a bad angle means he's scum

[DonCorleone]

The slot should claim. If they kill him, you are left alive, which is a positive outcome for the town. If you die, we will know that the doc/rb slot is scum.

doesn't saying "if there's a town JK don't be on dunn tonight" yield the same results without outing the slot?

Assume this ^

What happens tomorrow if dunn claims blocked?

-F

scum has a role blocker or jail keeper..? unless you think scum!Dunn CC's me not knowing that I'm fake claiming and assumes he's winning that if I'm not, and is willing to die tomorrow to do it?

[DonCorleone]

then we know at least one of the doc/rb and jk/tracker slots are scum?

counterpoint: jk/tracker slot claims today, neither dunn nor they die, dunn claims blocked. do we just mindlessly lynch the jk/track claim tomorrow? i still don't see how them claiming today helps us.

this is very reasonable but reasonable =/= town

I do agree that jk/tracker outing today is the Wrong Play(TM) though

[DonCorleone]

if on the very off chance there's a town 1s vig who tried to shoot last night but either failed or hit melody, i think you ought to claim that now

my feelings on town!skitter are getting stronger as well, I like that she's having similar thoughts to me

[DonCorleone]

well more accurately, a non-2 higher than him in the draft
he was a goon, which means he didn't get what he wanted. if he were the highest player he probably would have tried to make a more conservative pick taht he thought was likely to have gone through
(of course, he may have, but it failed anyways)
but i think there's a decent chance where he was low-ish so tried for something a bit more risky from scum's pov and failed to get it, but felt comfortable trying for it since there was someone above him

what do you think are the odds of there being scum in the upper part of the draft, like in drew/fark/NM based on the same logic?

[DonCorleone]

mm, not really, no, but i'm not townreading anyone in the actual sense of the word

might be because i'm feeling pretty demotivated for this game right now (i say right now but it's obviously been like that for a good while)

how similarly does scum!you act towards your partners in newbies and non-newbies? i remember what made me walk back from scum!you in 1992 was you saying you wouldn't bus that hard in a newbie.

if you're feeling unmotivated then are you actually likely to go through and verify what skitter says to you here? because otherwise this seems like a kind of lazy/empty question as scum!skitter could just lie with impunity. I don't think skitter has a set play style as scum either, meaning she'd probably be able to provide a game or two of meta in either direction should she decide to lie about what she honestly thinks

[DonCorleone]

i have alimdia/CSF/skitter/jv/drdrew/dunn as do not lynch today
and n_m as maybe do not lynch due to draft order

okay, explain why for these then

explain what your read on me is. you've made comments about how you think I might get lynched and you don't seem unhappy with it. do you think I'm scum here ?what did you think of my gambit? if you do think I'm scum why have you been hesitant to join on me? what do you think it says that a significant element of your TRs are not voting me?

[DonCorleone]

its really not a good look for drew to be popping in to argue that I shouldn't see lylo and to use that as a justification to vote me while not actually seeming to put effort in which is why I want skitter to clarify if he's behaving differently in the PT or not

[DonCorleone]

@skitter, JV, dunn, CSF where would be willing to lynch today? there is a not inconsiderable effort to Lynch me that I think is flowing mostly from bad slots, but it's going to turn into an inevitability unless you work with me to create a counter

[DonCorleone]

Don you seems to be quite afraid of being lynched. Do you have personal detestation for it?
~ker

I mean if I have to be lynched then so be it, but I'm not just going to sit there and let myself be lynched? I don't think that's a reasonable thing to ask/expect of any player regardless of alignment, and I'm definitely not okay with being lynched when I think that despite having been ass-to-head backwards on D1 my overall play has been very solidly townie and the bad slots are (mostly) the ones who seem to want me lynched

[DonCorleone]

mm, not really, no, but i'm not townreading anyone in the actual sense of the word

might be because i'm feeling pretty demotivated for this game right now (i say right now but it's obviously been like that for a good while)

how similarly does scum!you act towards your partners in newbies and non-newbies? i remember what made me walk back from scum!you in 1992 was you saying you wouldn't bus that hard in a newbie.

if you're feeling unmotivated then are you actually likely to go through and verify what skitter says to you here? because otherwise this seems like a kind of lazy/empty question as scum!skitter could just lie with impunity. I don't think skitter has a set play style as scum either, meaning she'd probably be able to provide a game or two of meta in either direction should she decide to lie about what she honestly thinks

i don't do metareads based on random games i wasn't a part of

i am for reasons familiar with (i think) newbie 1971 where skit was scum and her partner got lynched day 1 and she tried to swing the wagon onto someone else
based on her reply there it maybe would've inspired me to look at that game again

which maybe would've inspired me to do something here
not everything i post/ask serves an exact purpose
some things i post just to see if the responses Spark My Inspiration

i have alimdia/CSF/skitter/jv/drdrew/dunn as do not lynch today
and n_m as maybe do not lynch due to draft order

okay, explain why for these then

explain what your read on me is. you've made comments about how you think I might get lynched and you don't seem unhappy with it. do you think I'm scum here ?what did you think of my gambit? if you do think I'm scum why have you been hesitant to join on me? what do you think it says that a significant element of your TRs are not voting me?

alimdia seems kinda towny also apparently was a counter to aldus
someone linked CSF's posts that are antipartner with aldus
skitter is kinda gut
jv is a cop clear
drdrew is the whole neighborizer claim logic
dunn is a cop claim

fucc if i have a read on you. your tunnel is annoying and i'm so far having a hard time taking it too seriously becuase it seems like you're just shouting in the wind, also you're a contender for the lynch so no point shouting back at you if you die today anyway.

i'm not too unhappy about it because so much of this game has been revolving around your fakeclaim it's getting boring to read and is just killing my interest further. i don't think you're scum, no, that's why i'm not voting you right now. i don't care too much about your gambit in terms of your alignment.

i'm assuming you're gonna get to it, but i'd like to hear your thought on my posts on the second half of pg 63 and pg 64.

see, part of my problem is that I feel like scum a lot of the time are "asking things without a purpose". that's why I was asking icon about you after he joined the game, because that seems to fit with a lot of what you've been doing -- as in, not really playing.

I actually like your reads apart from I don't think the neighbouriser should be a clear for drew, just maybe a reason to not put him as preference 1 for lynching. I think his move on me has been gross from what I've read so far.

I think my absence probably slowed the game down a lot -- I don't think this is entirely my fault btw, you could all have kept playing while waiting for me to turn up -- but yeah, I think it's good to try to move past the fake claim. I'm aware that you could be town who's just apathied out, but without you producing anything like this, and with you avoiding giving stances that are clear, it's very hard to assess if those are genuine positions or if they're just made up and you're not substantiating them to make them more easily changeable in the future. like if you give a reason for a read and then want to completely backpedal it, that's harder if you've said explicitly what your reasons for a read are than if you haven't.

but hey, you're not voting me which like I said is something, especially with NM in the game and his propensity for L-1 hammering.

do you not think that my gambit is an important element in determining my alignment?

I guess partly I think you're not interested in a lot fo things I am interested in, and that's pinging because I want those things focused to try and find scum while you're kind of just passing on them.

I will get to it but I'm making food so I'm just here partially in vivo while I cook and eat -- catch up will resume later

[DonCorleone]

Can we cfd to Not_Mafia?

works for me

VOTE: NM

[DonCorleone]

if we're doing that then someone really needs to change their vote off me before he comes on though, or I'm getting insta-hammered

[DonCorleone]

see, part of my problem is that I feel like scum a lot of the time are "asking things without a purpose". that's why I was asking icon about you after he joined the game, because that seems to fit with a lot of what you've been doing -- as in, not really playing.

-snip-

do you not think that my gambit is an important element in determining my alignment?

I guess partly I think you're not interested in a lot fo things I am interested in, and that's pinging because I want those things focused to try and find scum while you're kind of just passing on them.

from "scum ask things without a purpose" and "datisi is asking things without a purpose" you cannot logically conclude "datisi is scum". am i doing that? yeah. but that's how i play when i don't have a good grasp on the game or my reads.

~

it might be to other people. to me it's not. my first instinct when seeing a gambit like that is "oh it's town because scum wouldn't do that", and i am aware of how worthless that conclusion is. so i disregard the whole thing. if my ability to discern someone's alignment is better by some means than others, i'm generally not gonna waste time banging my head against the wall with things i'm not good at.

what are the lot of things you're interested in here and i'm not, apart from your gambit?

I can't say that you're lockscum from it, but there's a difference between saying "Datisi is doing X" therefore "Datisi is scum" and "datisi is doing something scum do a lot of the time" therefore "datisi is more likely to be scum" because I don't know whether I should believe the justifications you're giving for not being engaged

----

I don't really understand the paragraph. why is that worthless as a conclusion?

and I think that besides my gambit, you've also not been particularly interested in the implications of the NK, or looking at the VCA and what that might imply. or interactions with our flipped scum, particularly.

[DonCorleone]

pretty sure we have the votes without you farkset

[DonCorleone]

provided skitter/alim comes back before deadline

[DonCorleone]

watcher if they have a shot ideally i guess ought to be on dunn but i wouldn't like consider it a scumclaim for them not to be

Yeah, yours gonna wanna keep me alive for one night longer, so I suggest you find a new lynch

To be clear, this is a claim and it's also me claiming I haven't used that shot

oh, so this is what broke the DP lynch train.

I don't really love that so many people are being allowed to claim "a role" and then retract the next day but yeah, I didn't really want pepper today so I'm alright with letting this go.

[DonCorleone]

cum!donc would play it exactly like this. He gets away without being hard scumread for the claim, and scum have a nice and clean N2 cop kill pending protects. Gladiating means even if donc wins it today, he gets lynched on the spot tomorrow for the same benefit.

only this disregards that scum!me would have to gamble on dunn not having investigated me (a likely outcome and what I was counting on happening from the real cop) in which case me NOT gladiating him as scum would lead to me getting auto-lynched without even buying an extra NK

[DonCorleone]

I don't really love that so many people are being allowed to claim "a role" and then retract the next day

I mean, I think there's a difference between fake claiming a specific role to bait a kill and just claiming "I have a PR" only to then go "lol actually I don't I just didn't wanna be lynched" which is what's been happening

pedit: well, alim yesterday and then I'm not sure that I believe drpepper or not but either way he's softing and I don't really see what the benefit is in him not clarifying which thing he's softing

[DonCorleone]

oh, I just finished page 67

[DonCorleone]

I don't really love that so many people are being allowed to claim "a role" and then retract the next day

you mean like that 1 dude who claimed cop and then retracted it the next day?

are you even reading my posts, icon?

[DonCorleone]

i would much rather flip donc and not have to deal with the wifom around his play anymore then lynch NM

Show of hands who trusts DonC as town after the gambit?

If this isn't a plurality, you're gonna be kept alive by scum if you're town with a majority of the game not being able to trust you

what do you mean by plurality? do you mean majority? because you realise that scum can very easily just say they wouldn't trust me to make the numbers look worse

[DonCorleone]

cum!donc would play it exactly like this. He gets away without being hard scumread for the claim, and scum have a nice and clean N2 cop kill pending protects. Gladiating means even if donc wins it today, he gets lynched on the spot tomorrow for the same benefit.

only this disregards that scum!me would have to gamble on dunn not having investigated me (a likely outcome and what I was counting on happening from the real cop) in which case me NOT gladiating him as scum would lead to me getting auto-lynched without even buying an extra NK

either you are town who fakeclaimed cop, which is policy lynch worthy in itself

or you are scum with dunn
or you are a commuter (tho unlikely given the claim today), and if you are then it's a scum!commuter because town wouldn't do that lol
or you are a scum 1-shot PGO who was gambling to getting investigated by the actual cop

take your pick

now I know for a fact that you don't think that policy lynching is worth it just because someone has fakeclaimed. I read a game that you were in not so long back where someone (I think it was mena?) counterclaimed with a fakeclaim and you acknowledged that it made him town. so why are you calling for a policy Lynch on me here when you KNOW that there's good reasons to fakeclaim as town

and you're also just suggesting lol scenarios. do you think those are actually likely? the only one that I think is plausible is the PGO situation, but even then I'm making a big gamble on people not seeing the cop flip and thinking "oh, they made a big deal out of DC maybe being a PGO, maybe he investigated there" which is made more likely by dunn not being a likely NK target given his low presence D1

[DonCorleone]

^ how long ago was that game?

talking to me? maybe a month or two ago

[DonCorleone]

Sorry, majority

But yes. I understand that scum can sway the numbers, but it's actually in scum's best interest to keep you alive if the sentiment isn't to trust you

yes, but scum can artificially make it look like I'm less trusted by town than I actually am like if the breakdown is 4 town who trust me vs 2 who don't then if scum both say they don't trust me it makes more sense to lynch me despite 66% of town trusting me

better imo to look at what the slots that are trustworthy are saying (like, idk, the cop claim and the clear?) who are both not wanting to Lynch me today

vs like drew/icon who do want to Lynch me, you who's been getting on board, and fark who's had a much worse day than I would have hoped

[DonCorleone]

man my ico tr has kinda dissipated and i think i tr dp now too

i really don't know where to vote

Not_Mafia would be a good option

I could get down with icon if we have the votes too, but I don't really wanna bank on everyone on the NM wagon being online again in time to get the pivot off

[DonCorleone]

I imagine datisi will find it faster than me if he modded it

[DonCorleone]

@kerset, would you lynch Iconeum?

[DonCorleone]

i really wish the game woudl be this active more than like two hours before deadline

yeah, that's my bad and if I'm not dead today then I should be around a lot more D3

do you wanna try icon if you're concerned about NM being PR and being checkable by dunn?

[DonCorleone]

menal repped out two hours before the game ended so like

it was his slot 95% of the time

and he was never lynched

wouldn't pro policy lynch state be "lynch him anyway despite TRing him"?

ok

i feel the core of this conversation is getting lost

anyone who is trying to use that game as a meta counter to me pushing DonC lynch here, read the game. It should be the exact opposite as it shows how strongly I pushed the lynch on menal

no, the point is you gave up pushing the lynch on mena fast-ish. and admitted that although you didn't like it it wasn't worth policy lynching and that he was likely town. we know you were town there, so why have you been insistent on policy lynching me?

[DonCorleone]

Subject: Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

This sequence seems to me a strong indicator of town mentality.

i was liking his recent posts from 72off

how do you feel about about a current townblock consisting of clidd/ico/walrus/atari/72?

this is a strong basis

Subject: Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

oh and menal probably too

damn i have a lot of townreads

if this game is solved in doobie/lootz/Elmo this is pretty neat

you were calling mena part of your townbloc by the end of D1 despite him having CC'd a role you had rather than just having fakeclaimed a role in the game

so you're very much capable of re-evaluating, and you're not just not doing that here, you're not interested in doing that here. in that game, you checked yourself, said you'd see what other slots thought, and then looked again. here, you haven't done that at all and in fact you've been outright ignoring the two conf!town slots saying that they don't think I'm scum/don't want to Lynch me to pursue the policy argument

[DonCorleone]

Yeah I'm finding it hard to believe that scum want DonC dead. If DonC was town and he got the scum team right and was pushing for them, he's easily discredit able.

Not saying you're not town, it's just I find it hard to believe that Ico would expend so much effort in your lynch when it's beneficial for scum for you to be here

Plus, I really think NM is a bad lynch. Even if it's just an info lynch his lynch gives us nothing

except if icon is scum then it makes a lot of sense for him to be pushing me, particularly in any scenario where NM is scum -- because the two main alternatives would be him or his buddy

whereas he was happy to divert from me to you, what do you think that says knowing your own alignment?

[DonCorleone]

you were calling mena part of your townbloc by the end of D1 despite him having CC'd a role you had rather than just having fakeclaimed a role in the gameso you're very much capable of re-evaluating, and you're not just not doing that here, you're not interested in doing that here. in that game, you checked yourself, said you'd see what other slots thought, and then looked again. here, you haven't done that at all and in fact you've been outright ignoring the two conf!town slots saying that they don't think I'm scum/don't want to Lynch me to pursue the policy argument

it's a very bad take to meta argue that i've pushed for a policy lynch once, and got around to townreading that person by the end of the day and therefore I HAVE to be doing the same here or i'm scum. Am I capable of reassessing? Sure I like to believe that.

have you given reasons to be called town by now? No i don't think so. Somehow it's proof that I'm scum to you

you haven't been trying to look for reasons I'm town lol, only for reasons I'm scum. you've not even been arguing for it beyond the fact that "oh DC won't be good for Lylo/DC fakeclaimed cop". the lack of desire to actually sort me is there, you're just trying to secure my Lynch, which makes a lot of sense if you want to keep it off you or NM

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: iconeum

[DonCorleone]

would lowkey prefer NM but apparently that's not wanted because of draft order

[DonCorleone]

skitter should probably be re-evaluated if icon/NM flips scum tomorrow

[DonCorleone]

I can see scum her choosing to white knight me today but not actually following through with a vote to keep the Lynch off me, just making sure her positioning is right

[DonCorleone]

err, let's see

dunn, JV, CSF are all lockdown

alimdia is probably town for being the CW on D1 to aldus
skitter has seemed townie but I'm not convinced this play is town
farkset has had a terrible day in trying to force a 1v1 between me and dunn, and through insisting on this policy Lynch. I don't think this makes them scum, as farkran tends to insist on playing mafia according to his "ideal model" of how people should play, rather than based on any empirical evidence of how people actually play, but do revisit him if needed.

drpepper has had really similar reads to me throughout, could be scum but don't really prefer him to the others
datisi is kind of townier for not just hopping on me despite me pushing him, has been very reasonable -- not clearing, but enough for me to not want them today anymore

drew has done very little and again has just sheeped onto me using policy logic, I don't think he's trying to solve
NM has literally not played the game at all, icon and fark resisting the attempt to pivot here means that if he's scum they're likely partners
icon looks like scum to me who's intransigent

[DonCorleone]

I would say lynch twice in the bottom group of names

I always tend to feel like scum is pushing me in situations like this so those reads might be totally wrong and scum are just positioning to be on the right side of my mislynch in which case datisi/skitter might make sense? in terms of people who have kind of not wanted me dead but not really made moves to resist it

[DonCorleone]

is there any one universe where i'm not scum to you donc

bc it's getting old

idek if you're scum

depends on which way scum are playing this. you moved out of my scum pool based on my actual reading of your play, in which case it probably is 2/3 of (icon, NM, drew) and scum is pushing on me to make sure the alternative isn't a scumlynch

OR those are town slots who are just really wrong on me and scum is in my middle pool, where you and skitter are the main ones who benefit from being on the right side of my lynch and making those other slots look worse

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: NM

[DonCorleone]

if you're not going to vote NM then you should probably just vote me skitter

[DonCorleone]

I hope any town on my wagon are going to take a long hard look at how they form their reads come tomorrow

[DonCorleone]

Congrats to the town! I think I played reasonably well here with like one or two things that went wrong that snowballed into things going wrong very fast, combined with bad luck on another couple of key things. Fark’s right that there’s some (I think) interesting and brief comments in dead thread about the way I played it.

@skitter PM me a guess if you like and I might out even if you get it wrong

[DonCorleone]

no release scum PT for 24 hours elmo?

I think there may have been one or two things I wanted to redact

[DonCorleone]

Err I forgot doing it now