SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Quick question; is this a game everyone is treating dead seriously or is it a game people are kinda going to meme about and not take too seriously? Asking because it makes a difference in how much effort I put in. I kinda assumed this game was the latter and am going in with that expectation, but if it's the former I'll need to shape up and put some more work in.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Out of all the games we could be reunited in, I'm kinda disappointed it's one which I am assuming is a meme game. I'd legit be interested to see you and me interact in a dead serious game and to hear your assessment of me, of whether I'm pretty much the same or if I've changed (presumably for the worse but who knows), and if so, how/in what ways.
Alas.
Maybe next time. <3-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Eh, they haveIn post 14, Miss Lane wrote:Nero, are you related to Eddie Came in any way?vaguelysimilar styles of play, but are very much distinctly different players.
Also, might be a meme game but first instinct:
VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies.
Not gonna even pretend I'd have any gauge of ETL's meta years-later. Even if I did have perfect memory of how she played (and I most decidedly do not), the years of absence probably did change said meta anyway. But like.
Instant vibe from her opening?
Even in a meme game (or, you could say,especiallyin a meme game), probably just scum.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Eh.In post 33, Vecna wrote:This type of trying hard is the good type of trying hard though
Tho speaking of tryharding, how's a page two readslist sound to ya?
Nero Cain
Miss Lynch
Auro
Vecna
Tchill13
momo
5G Tower
Hoctac
Jake the Wolfie
Odelschwanck
Allan90
No łynch
Saudade
davesaz
Alchemist21
Elements
Flavor Leaf
50 Judge Powers
farside22
EspeciallyTheLies
Approximately. (As per 49.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I wanted to call FL scum for this post so I'm going to locktown him for it instead.In post 67, Flavor Leaf wrote:Oh damn, what did I sign up for? Idk how to play setups like this-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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*Obligatory post of "maybe this is bad scumVscum distancing" and counterpost of "no, this fight is always TvT".*
(But actually, Miss Lynch is probably town and I think ETL's scum, so I think neither.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Can someone factcheck/refresh my memory on this:
Lurksack Alchemist is scum Alchemist, right?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I believe this!In post 148, Null Vote wrote:I hard claim uninfectable townie.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Can't tell if scum bussing scum or town correctly identifying scum but either way instantly not an immediate lynch target.In post 160, Tchill13 wrote:VOTE: especiallythelies
drama and mod having to remind ppl to be civil this early is fun i guess.
flavor what do you think of Miss lynch and ETL right now?
Gun to head would say town over scum tho.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It's at about this point that I feel like I should give an updated readslist so I don't forget anything:
Nero Cain
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Tchill13
farside22
momo
5G Tower
Jake the Wolfie
Odelschwanck
Allan90
No łynch
Saudade
davesaz
Flavor Leaf
50 Judge Powers
Elements
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
(I think I was too harsh in my initial assessment of farside, she's probably actually town.)
Per 239.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Oops. Forgot to move No Lynch up to the Nero tier. My bad.
Nero Cain
No łynch
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Tchill13
farside22
momo
5G Tower
Jake the Wolfie
Odelschwanck
Allan90
Saudade
davesaz
Flavor Leaf
50 Judge Powers
Elements
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
Actuallist, per 239.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'm less sold on the legitimacy of this claim, so won't be putting you at the Nero tier of town, but sure, this still is probably far more likely to come from town than scum plus I was already townreading your slot so you get an upgrade in my read.In post 241, Hoctac wrote:I have a mechanical innocent on Miss Lynch. She's locktown; trust me on this.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Usually the case with games.In post 286, Nero Cain wrote:this game got boring fast-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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While I had the exact same thought, gut tells me no.In post 310, 50 Judge Powers wrote:And the question was: Did FL roll scum yet again?
You're a distinct possibility tho considering this as your opener feels incredibly off from what I'd expect from you, especially in a meme game.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Wow scum?In post 333, Saudade wrote:wow page 14-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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That, plus obligations elsewhere on-site, and crippling soul-crushing verge-of-siteflaking depression.In post 352, farside22 wrote:
I heard mastina was having internet issues.In post 351, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:what are the chances momo 5G and mastina are the scums? Confirmed but not posted...?
There's a very real chance you see the latter end up radically changing/affecting my presence in this game for the worse; the main reasons I'm posting now are,
1: I didn't remember I had already confirmed, via email knew I had received a PM and misremembered it as being the role PM when it was the daystart PM and was afraid that if I didn't log in today, I'd end up replaced without having played the game at all,
2: This game is a new game, new games always have a certain level of fresh energy to them until the boredom/apathy/etc. hit, and thus until it does there will be that enthusiasm from me,
3: I went into this game expecting it to be a meme game and not taking a game too seriously is an excellent way for me to have more energy,
4: And while I am dead tired, the combination of the above three with having gotten up recently and repeatedly and being in a good mood from good things happening to offset the depression and possibly coffee mean that I had more in me than I would otherwise expect.
We'll have to see if the energy continues. I obviously hope it will, but unfortunately I can't promise it will. Will do my best tho!-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Completely missed this post but feel obliged to mention the utter dead nullness of it. Doesn't ping me as scum, defends someone I think is town in a way which looks town but is probably nai in that it's a low-effort post scum find easy to make, so also doesn't truly ping me as town either.In post 329, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Hey all, I hope all is well. Would anyone on the Hoctac wagon care to explain why they are on it?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Right now? At this very second, less awful than I was before I started posting here.In post 412, Miss Lane wrote:Question for mastina upon completion of her catch-up: How do you feel?
Before I started posting here I was almost as bad as can get.
And honestly I can already feel it--the moment Istopposting, I'll sink back into that bad mental state.
At this very second, I'm relatively fine, but I canfeelit, once I stop posting in here I am going to plummet back to where I was and I'm terrified of it.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Oh. I took your question to be in a different light.In post 413, Miss Lane wrote:Specifically in reference to what you assume to be the answers to the following questions/statements:
I got the vibe that people are, in a weird way, doing half of one but half of the other;
People are mentally categorizing the game as a meme game, butnotPLAYING it as a meme game, where they are treating the game seriously and in spite of mentally filing it as a meme game, are actually tryharding in it in spite of that categorization.
Speaking of said tryharding, caught up readslist:
Nero Cain
No łynch
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Flavor Leaf
Tchill13
farside22
momo
5G Tower
Jake the Wolfie
davesaz
Odelschwanck
Allan90
Saudade
50 Judge Powers
Elements
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
Approximately: locktown of locktown; strong town; townreads; weaker townreads; townleans; utter nulls; scumleans; weakish (but not weaker) scumreads; scumread.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'm always down to chat. Sitechat, discord, PMs, whatever.In post 425, Miss Lane wrote:I'm willing to talk to you outside the game if you need it.
Because you haven't obvtowned yourself to that point yet.In post 428, Auro wrote:Mastina why am I not locktown
Your play right now is far more likely to be town than scum--but this level of performance from you isn't yet utterly outside of your scumrange, not yet at least. Same reason Vecna isn't locktown yet.
To put this in the context of a recently completed game--if you look at what you and Vecna have done in this game, compared to what you and Vecna did in Doubles Mafia, that can give you a fair idea of where I am coming from here. In Doubles Mafia, both of your slots became insanely town and this game I see the starts of what I think is probably similar...but you should be self-aware enough to know thatright now, your level of play here is not the same level of play in Doubles Mafia (and similarly for Vecna; he should be self-aware enough to know thatright now, his play isn't at the insanely town levelsyet),
You're townreads. Townreads with decent confidence. Not weak townreads, not townleans, well and true, proper, townreads. I expect you to move into the locktown tier given more time, but as has been pointed out: game is less than 24 hours old. Vecna's not someone who instantly obvtowns and you're someone who, while theycan, often doesn't. It took you both time to ramp up to those levels, and I am expecting similar here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Everything.In post 439, farside22 wrote:Mastina: what is you scum read on EtL based on?
This instantly pegged me as being far, far too serious especially for a meme game.In post 8, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:no.
Not only did this continue the trend of being too serious, it was also, to use a buzzword, LAMIST; ETL was putting in effort to look like she was being town, without doing anything that was actually town. Furthermore, the asking of the question looks entirely fake, or if there were truth to it, scum asking about the town's role PMs due to not having all the information they think they need.In post 11, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:However, I would like to know how we gain immunity, because nothing in my role PM explained that bit. I didn't know if I should direct the question publicly to the mod in the thread or not, so I asked via PM. <<<@mod: I hope this is ok to post?The rules on this site have changed so much since I last played regularly, I have no idea whats kosher anymore.
32 has her accuse Miss Lynch of trying awfully hard when her own iso is by far the most guilty of that sin. The fight with Miss Lynch in general felt like a forced fight to get early cheap towncred, too, as people are likely to write off a fight of that nature as TvT. It's a common scum tactic for people of her generation; you deliberately enter into a fight with a town player early who is suspicious of you. That way, their suspicions look less likely to be correct, and people are more inclined to think that both participants are wrongly-tunneling town. It gives a way to stay out of the spotlight later on, because people have written you off as wrong-town, rather than scum.
I know ETL AtEs as both alignments and her AtE this game didn't feel town at all; it felt particularly 'fake', for lack of a better word--maybe overblown would be better? In that I have little doubts ETL felt emotions, but her posting here felt like it was overplaying them, for lack of better terminology. Forcing the feelings, I guess you could say.
Everything about her content this game has felt incredibly calculated and precise, with an odd level of calmness. She radiates an aura of cool, collected, precise posting, one of artificial tone.
Better question isn't why am I scumreading ETL; it's why are you townreading her? That's literally why I initially placed you so low initially; your early defense of her felt off. (I later reconsidered and thought it more likely you're town wrongly defending scum.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yeah on that note if you're expecting me to claim when the wagon on me has players like ETL and Saudade spearheading it, you'll be sorely disappointed.
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yeah you sure are gullible and have been played; if you weren't gullible to being played, you wouldn't be joining one of the objectively worst wagons of 2020.In post 454, Miss Lane wrote:I appear to be gullible and have been played, and I am ashamed. Don't look at me.
VOTE: mastina-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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There was an MD thread on that subject.In post 477, Nero Cain wrote:
so ppls alignment could change. boo hoo. I mean, I guess one could argue that its semi-decent play to NOT PLAY so you don't fuck yourself or your team over if you become scum but thats still only half playing to your wincon.In post 470, Auro wrote:Well, you were the one ranting about people not taking a cult game seriously
General consensus, which I agreed with, seemed to be that playing to get recruited is playing against your current wincon for the chance at getting another wincon that you may never actually get and if you're never recruited then playing to get recruited is playing against your current wincon, that it's better to play to your current wincon even if it does risk the recruitment.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 489, Miss Lane wrote:3. This wagon is not objectively one of the worst even in the last two months. It's actually pretty ok, you're introduction has been pretty scummy.X
This has been, by far, one of the most obvtown games of mine all year; I literally never get more obviously town than I am this game.
Aside from that, yes, the wagon is objectively shit:
Vecna's reason for voting me is literally nonsense; he's quoting a post of mine and making a comment that makes no sense and that's his reason for voting me.In post 427, Vecna wrote:
oh yes, here goIn post 394, mastina wrote:Quick question; is this a game everyone is treating dead seriously or is it a game people are kinda going to meme about and not take too seriously? Asking because it makes a difference in how much effort I put in. I kinda assumed this game was the latter and am going in with that expectation, but if it's the former I'll need to shape up and put some more work in.
one of the three
VOTE: mastina
Saudade blatantly OMGUS'd me calling him scum with this.In post 429, Saudade wrote:VOTE: mastina
i've never seen more transparent scum posting ever in my lifeAuro is explicitly sheeping the OMGUS vote from Saudade.
ETL, like Saudade, is making a pretty blatant OMGUS vote.In post 436, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Hi mastina welcome to the game! So glad you rolled scum. Haven’t you learned by now? I know you know my town game. It hasn’t changed at all. You come in saying you’re going to take this less than seriously and then fall right back into your scum game saying I’m scum day one has always been your tell lol
VOTE: mastinaExplicitly a vote for a wagon for the sake of voting for a wagon.
So I stand by my original assessment.
The wagon is one of the worst wagons of 2020, period.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It absolutely is true--the last time I was this obvtown was in Alisae versus Pine.In post 497, Elements wrote:
this is blatantly not true or not so many people would think you're scum no?In post 495, mastina wrote:This has been, by far, one of the most obvtown games of mine all year; I literally never get more obviously town than I am this game.
I can be obvtown and still be wagoned; the presence of a wagon (or even a lynch) doesn't mean I wasn't obvtown--it means the wagon is just. that. shit.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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So?In post 498, Miss Lane wrote:Your assessment is objectively wrong, mastina, and I don't think I've ever seen you hold so strongly to something so obviously logically incorrect (although I guess I haven't known you for long). You may be townie compared to yourself (I don't know you well enough to tell), but you haven't been townie when measured with the standard of the average player.
I'm not an average player; I am me. I am obvtown my the mastina metric, not by the average player metric, but being obvtown by the mastina metric is more important becauseI am mastina, not an average player.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Well. For multiple reasons.In post 503, Elements wrote:why are you obvtown?
I am exuding the aura of townness I normally do, and very very strongly so.
My energy for this gamehasn'tfaded (yet, at least), whereas as scum my energy can and does fade very very very rapidly.
I have a unique presence that is something I can't manage as scum.
My scumgame has very very very obviously atrophied to the point of not being great and there are multiple games in Coney Island where this lack of skill at playing scum has shown itself rather prominently. (Granted, yes, there are extenuating circumstances, excuses which "justify" the lack of performance, but you can only make so many excuses before facing the facts that I just cannot put my heart into scum right now and just am not in any way a good, active scum player.)
My towngames have a unique aura where I just...radiate a level of townness to me. Sometimes it's subtle; in Doubles Mafia, for instance, it was subtle enough that I understood why I wasn't instantly being townread because the aura that game was different from my normal town aura. (I could still tell I was radiating a town aura, but I could also tell it was a different town aura from my normal town aura.) This game though that town aura is stronger than it's been in any other game this year.
The content I have given thusfar has already shown a level of whimsy to it that I can't create as scum, where there's a level of spontaneity to it which is utterly absent from my scumgame. I just instantly went with the flow, just went with what felt right, just went with my feelings, in a way I am incapable of doing as scum, where things clearly had no plan to them (whereas when scum I am always stunted and stilted by having a plan).
There's a nuance to my reads where I have shown my thoughts in a way that as scum I can't replicate.
All in all, the question isn't why I am obvtown; it's why in mod's name Iwouldn'tbe obvtown, and there is, quite literally, no reason, because this is thoroughly my towngame and absolutely not my scumgame.
The closest reason there would be to me not being obvtown would be that I am making posts like this rather than posts where I further scumreads on slots--buteven that point isn't valid, because I alreadyhavefurthered my reads and am more or less posting this because I can and feel like it, because I already did what I need to.
Like.
Nero Cain is the locktown of locktowns because this is Nero's towngame through and through. His alignment is pretty much always transparent and this game is no exception; anyone even remotely familiar with him will be able to tell that he is instantly insanely town.In post 421, mastina wrote:Nero Cain
No łynch
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Flavor Leaf
Tchill13
farside22
momo
5G Tower
Jake the Wolfie
davesaz
Odelschwanck
Allan90
Saudade
50 Judge Powers
Elements
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
Approximately: locktown of locktown; strong town; townreads; weaker townreads; townleans; utter nulls; scumleans; weakish (but not weaker) scumreads; scumread.
No Lynch claimed a role that I believe to be a real role that I don't think scum would fakeclaim (and, inherent to its nature, can't be a scum realclaim). It's basically a half-bulletproof, half-innocent-child claim.
I am pretty sure that this is Miss Lynch's towngame. It's not an absolute the same as Nero, because I am less familiar with Miss Lynch and even if I weren't, Miss Lynch is not the type of player with a night-and-day difference between their towngame and scumgame (whereas Nero Cain is), so the townread is not absolute. It is still fairly strong though because I have liked the content Miss Lynch has given and it has seemed genuine, with Miss Lynch's posting coming across as sincere.
Plus, Hoctac claimed an innocent result on them. While I've my skepticism as to the legitimacy/validity of this roleclaim, the fact is still that Miss Lynch is disproportionately more likely to be town than scum.
Speaking of Hoctac, aside from the claim which is more likely to come from town than scum regardless of its legitimacy/validity, Hoctac's content has felt overwhelmingly town here. Again, not familiar enough with the player to put them on the absolute locktown of locktown tiers that is the Nero Cain townread tier, butstill, far far FAR more likely to be town than scum.
I already explained my townreads on Auro and Vecna--simply put, both are doing the right things that make me think that they're more likely town than not, but they haven't done those things to the extent where I would locktown them, because neither is outside of their scum range yet. While both are far more likely to be town than not, they haven't done anything which pushes them over the edge into definitely town yet.
Flavor Leaf's posts this game have sucked ass and they're not only posts that would make me naturally inclined to scumread any slot, but are also posts that I could easily see a disheartened FL make after rolling scumagain. HOWEVER, I got the impression, specifically because it is FL, that it wasn't disinterest at a scum role PM and that the scummy content wasn't scum, that it was just FL being low on investment as town.
TChill I already explained all there is to that read pretty much--it does look more likely to be town than scum, but Tchill's a skilled enough scum player that it could be from scum and I am not familiar enough with his meta to make a more definitive conclusion about him.
farside I initially thought was a likely ETL partner due to her early defense of content which was self-evidently scummy in nature, especially when farside is the type of player who I would expect to be making the accusationagainstETL about her forced content being, well...forced. But after seeing her continued posting, I got the impression that she was just wrong-town defending a read she sincerely believes in, because her stances feel fluid and organic. It's not a strong read whatsoever though and mostly boils down to gut.
The nulls are all nulls for good reason. Aside from those that haven't posted, Jake the Wolfie's post was the most nai of nai posts possible. And davesaz is...well, davesaz; his posts don't give me any vibes of his alignment at all yet and I don't expect they will for quite a while, possibly not even until D2. He's a player who is incredibly hard to get any semblance of a real read early on but who becomes incredibly easy to read later on.
Saudade's entrance and content in this game immediately reeked of being very probably scum (in hindsight, should probably be below Almost50 here).
Almost50's content this game more or less feels like it's all out of balance from where it feels it should be. A level of seriousness, mixed with a level of inactivity. If Almost50 were town, I'd expect either the seriousness to be accompanied by a slough of posts, or for there to be inactivity accompanied by a ton of lighthearted jokiness. The splitting the difference, half of one half of the other, feels like it is more likely to come from scum than town.
Elements hasn't made a post which looks town all game long. I realize Elements is a frequently scummy player anyway--but I usually can still get some idea of Elements being town when he is town, and I'm not getting it at all this game.
I could go into my Alch read more but right now I'm deliberately avoiding doing so.
And my ETL read I already went into.
So this is literally all the content I can give, in one post--nothing I can say will further game content more than the latter half of this post does, so everything I post past this point is going to be superfluous, which allows me to make posts like the beginning of this post was.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
...It occurs to me that the person I was quoting who asked me the question to spark that post is, in fact, Elements--ironically, yes, this is in fact the spark of town which I think could indicate he might be town.In post 503, Elements wrote:why are you obvtown?
It's not a 180 on the read, where Elements goes from scumread to townread, but itisenough to knock Elements up a tier or two in the readslist, to be something like this:
Nero Cain
No łynch
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Flavor Leaf
Tchill13
farside22
momo
5G Tower
Jake the Wolfie
davesaz
Odelschwanck
Allan90
Elements
50 Judge Powers
Saudade
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
Approximately. That is to say, Elements is not out of the scum woods--but that sort of post does feel like itcouldbe from town, and seeing a post which could be from town from Elements means that there's a much higher chance he's town than there was before.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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How could I not?In post 521, davesaz wrote:1) how you can have that many reads so early if it's serious?
People have posted. Almost the entire playerlist in fact.
You can develop reads off of as little as one post--when almost every slot in the game hasmorethan one post, and I have experience with a fair number of these players, again. How could Inothave serious reads on them?
The scumreads are, rather notably, much much much weaker compared to the opposite-end-of-the-scale townreads, because it is much easier to get good early townreads than good early scumreads, but overall all of the reads (especially the town ones) pretty much all feel good, all feelright.
...Plus. I'm pretty much a player whose strength lies in pretty much the beginning, or very end, of the game with almost no in-between. If I am good in the earlygame I won't be good in the midgame and frequently won't be good in the lategame with me having done all the good I will do; if I am good in the lategame, it's because I sucked ass in the midgame and probably am alive only through having been trash in the earlygame too.
But, being good in the earlygame is happening to me much much much more often than anything else because, I dunno. Just ease of getting reads easily? Heck if I know where the success comes from, it justdoes.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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momo might be added to the list of possible scum for this off of the virtue of momo having confirmed (thus, not getting replaced), but not being replaced in spite of not having posted at all.In post 528, Covid 19 wrote:Seeking replacements for Allan90 and Odelschwanck who failed to confirm.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'd say "effort != alignment", but that'd be a bit disingenuous of me considering that in this case I happen to think that the effort does have an impact on alignment--aIn post 542, Quick wrote:ETL looks pretty townie? High post count and is ACTUALLY excited. But now they are serious.negativeone, so I should instead say:
Effort != town.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Game's short enough that you should be able to read it. There's not much in the way of super-critical content so I'd be okay if you heavily skimmed the 25ish pages of said content, but I'd still prefer you do said skim; it'd make me feel much better about your slot to see you go through that effort.In post 549, Aristophanes wrote:Have I missed anything good?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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For the record, I do think that this Quick isIn post 566, Quick wrote:People are generally more inconsistent then they are consisted. This is no different in Mafia. So you are operating under false presuppositions.probablymore likely to be town than scum at this point, but I'm not really sure because it's mostly based off of a pretty stupid reason of, "I don't think Quick gets into an argument of what amounts to semantics* like this if scum".
*Not the best choice of words, but conveys the thought I am more or less thinking of, that Quick engaging in a trivial thing like that which isn't really important, made me think Quick's more likely to be town than not. Which, again, is a pretty stupid reason but hey, I'm fine with it.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Eh, Ari's alignment will become incredibly obvious once he does his catch-up, and right now he hasn't done anything which is outside of his scum range--but that said? I'm venturing aIn post 578, Elements wrote:Aristophanes townguessthat you're right. It's just a wild guess, purely gut, no real backing at all because again, Ari hasn't done anything really alignment-indicativeyet, and we'll have a much better idea once he does catch up, but hey I'm willing to run with a guess!-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I'm honestly not sure how to. It's basically just, what I think based off of FL being FL. He's not being hyper-invested in this game, not being hyper-active, not being hyper-strong, whatever you'd like to say.In post 598, Quick wrote:@mastina, flesh out your FL read because that cannot be read at this point IMO.
So given that, there's two possible worlds:
FL is not invested as town,
Or FL is not invested as scum.
Those two are the only two scenarios possible here, because FL is self-evidently not strongly invested (at least not yet).
FL has gotten sick of drawing scum, so there's a precedent for him possibly not being invested as scum--however, even when FL is sick of drawing scum, my memory is that he's usually still more active than he is in this game even with him having drawn an alignment he's tired of playing. More than that, I'm not even sure he's tired of drawing scum anymore, because it's been a while since he constantly rolled scum, and that break might've been enough to reset the metric and make him no longer sick of it.
Between those things, I more or less think it far more likely that FL is just not invested as town, because FL as towncanhave games where he's not very invested. It's not an absolute though because I obviously could be mistaken about things regarding FL. Life circumstances, his mindset, his attitude, the exact specifics of his meta, etc. There's lots of things which make the theory not absolute, thus, not a stronger townread but enough of a townread where I don't think he needs focus any time soon.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Eh, not effort exactly, but your reasons were "high post count" (not town indicative for ETL and can sometimes be the opposite; if I remember correctly, ETL can have lurkfest games as town but is always hyper-active as scum*) and "being actually excited"--something which in this game I'd call null-at-best, with the very real chance of it being scum-indicative.In post 608, Quick wrote:
What makes you think I was talking about effort?In post 605, mastina wrote:
I'd say "effort != alignment", but that'd be a bit disingenuous of me considering that in this case I happen to think that the effort does have an impact on alignment--aIn post 542, Quick wrote:ETL looks pretty townie? High post count and is ACTUALLY excited. But now they are serious.negativeone, so I should instead say:
Effort != town.
And it's simpler to roll those two up into my stereotypical phrase, of effort != alignment (or in this case, effort != town).
*And before ETL can point out that she has hyper-active games as town, my post isn't saying she doesn't. It's saying she'salwayshyper-active as scum, whereas she's not ALWAYS hyper-active as town even if she's hyper-active as town most games.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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If the default were 50% for a user, I'd place him at somewhere in the 60-70% range.In post 618, Quick wrote:Put a percentage on FL being Town for me.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In the past? Sure!In post 619, Saudade wrote:can anyone with a history with mastina tell if mastina always puts so much effort into her scum games
In the last year?
Never once! My scumgames have all been absolute zero effort minimalistic posting where I did the bare minimum necessary and often not eventhatmuch.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Nero Cain
No łynch
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
Auro
Vecna
Flavor Leaf
Tchill13
Aristophanes
Quick
farside22
5G Tower
Elements
Jake the Wolfie
davesaz
momo
50 Judge Powers
Saudade
Alchemist21
EspeciallyTheLies
This is about where I'm at right now. It might not be exactly right, might take time to refine it more later, but I'm getting tired and have been wanting to grab coffee for like 15-30 minutes now so I admit I kinda rushed this wanting to leave the thread.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I mean my games are public record so it's not like I'd be lying about easily-confirmed, easily-provable information that is readily available for anyone to search up on their own.
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Shit, I thought I could beat the prod timer. Was way way too tired to play yesterday and didn't want to prod dodge but oh well, actions have consequences; while not playing yesterday was inevitable, not prod dodging means I'll eat the prod.
Anyway.
I'd be all too happy to link to my towngames and my scumgames so people can see the night and day difference between the two.In post 635, Quick wrote:
"By looking at all my games over the past year."In post 632, mastina wrote:I mean my games are public record so it's not like I'd be lying about easily-confirmed, easily-provable information that is readily available for anyone to search up on their own.
Funnily enough...In post 648, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Come up with something that isn’t meta considering I’ve been on hiatus for literally years and the last game we played together was in 2016.
...I already did. That wasn't meta-based and in fact none of the main backing of my reasons for suspecting you have anything to do with meta.In post 397, mastina wrote:Not gonna even pretend I'd have any gauge of ETL's meta years-later. Even if I did have perfect memory of how she played (and I most decidedly do not), the years of absence probably did change said meta anyway. But like. Instant vibe from her opening? Even in a meme game (or, you could say,especiallyin a meme game), probably just scum.
They are things that coming from almost any player, I would be scumreading.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I sincerely doubt it.In post 653, Auro wrote: ETL implied they love the rhetoric and argumentation in Mafia: so isn't the "manufactured tone" likely to be a product of playstyle rather than alignment?
Incredibly shallow, surface-level reads that lack any real depth to them. They reek of reads that are meant to look good without actually being good--with zero genuine thought progression in them, saying what is convenient to say rather than saying something with conviction behind it.In post 653, Auro wrote:How would you evaluate their progressions ans trajectories apart from that?
None of her reads look like they have anything controversial about them. To wit,
The closest to controversial townreads she comes are the davesaz read (and the only thing controversial about that is the strength of the townread, in that it's probably not controversial to say davesaz is north of null) and the Alchemist read (when many people are scumreading him).In post 899, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:TOWN
Auro
Quick
Vecna
Dave
Miss Lynch
Nero
Alchemist
Farside
NULL
Creature
Jake
50
Elements
Flavor leaf
PL
5G
Voted
Saudade
SCUM
Mastina
Hoctac?
Ari?
Tchill
None of the scumreads are controversial at all, and all of them are easy reads to hold. Multiple people are suspicious of Hoctac; I am always an easy scumread; Aristophanes hasn't obvtowned himself yet (I'm not fully caught up btw so not positive about that, I'll find out later I guess), and Tchill's an easy enough player to scumread--he's probably the closest the scumreads have to anything controversial due to how he can be townread, too, but it's still undeniable that it's easy to scumread him.
These reads are all surface-level reads that have no true analysis, no true depth, backing them. And what ETL is doing is mostly complaining rather than pushing.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I mean, that's not something I actually really do.In post 660, Auro wrote:Mastina, have you been pushing them just to observe reactions?
I never push something I don't believe. I can push something I'm not sure of, andeverypush of mine, every push, is meant to garner reactions, and from those generated reactions, give me more information to reform my stances from. But every push, I believe in. Some pushes I have doubts about, but these doubts usually become readily apparent and right now I have almost none.
There's always the chance I am wrong about the likes of ETL, Saudade, Alch, and the like. Heck, there's a high probability that at least 1-2 of them are town because I never nail the scumteam on D1, and while I am usually not so off the mark as to have no scum in my initial suspects, it's also not unheard of so there's even the chance all three are town!
But those doubts are thoroughly unproductive to have because they don't lead anywhere especially when said doubts are just that--doubts, not beliefs. I do not believe ETL is town; I believe she is scum. There are doubts so that read is not absolute, sure, but I still think that she's far more likely to be scum than town. I do not believe Alch is town; I think he's scum. There are some stronger doubts there so that read is not absolute, but I still think that he's probably more likely scum than town. I do not believe Saudade is town; I believe he is scum. There are doubts so that read is not absolute, but I still think it more likely that he's scum than town.
I feel like I have good reasons to suspect ETL and I don't have good reasons behind the doubt in that scumread--the doubts come across more as paranoia of "what if I'm wrong?".
I feel like I do have the right reasons for my read on Alch, but I admit that the reasons behind my doubt there are more or less questioning if my reasons are right, in tandem with seeing things whichmightsignal him being town.
My reasons for Saudade are more or less gut, and I trust my gut a fair amount, but there is some obvious doubt there in that I don't have any real reason outside of gut.
And none of this should be a surprise, because as I previously stated: my townreads are, comparatively, much much much stronger than my scumreads. My scumreadscouldbe wrong; my townreadsaren'twrong, at least, not above a certain mark on the list. (Weaker townreads obviously could be wrong, they wouldn't be weak townreads if they couldn't be wrong. But stronger townreads just aren't wrong here.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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That's what anti-infection roles are for.In post 686, davesaz wrote:Actually I wonder if scum strategy would be to form a townblock and subvert it. Being able to infect the universal TRs would be a great strategy.
(If an anti-infection role isn't targeting the likes of Nero or similar never-scum universal townreads, they'd be outright trolling.)
Eh. If the scum infect me, it's their loss--literally. When I say there's a night and day difference between my towngame and my scumgame right now, that I fundamentally cannot get myself to put in more than the bare minimum,In post 692, Nero Cain wrote:As someone that normally finds Mastina scummy, I rather not lynch her today. OFC the inverse of that argument is that I don't want to have to worry about an infected Mastina (if I'm right that she's town) and lynching her would alleviate that.I'm not joking, so there would be an immediatestarkcontrast in my behavior, where, sure, I'd still be posting once a day to avoid getting prodded, but my content would plummet off a cliff into nonexistence pretty much.
Plus, scum infecting me would, presumably, be obvious when I'd flip as originally-town-that-was-infected, tantamount to the scum nightkilling me, soooo. If the scum want to spend what amounts to basically a factional nightkill on me, then who am I to complain? It means they saw me as a threat. That's an honor.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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For the record--I'd rather be sheeped on strong townreads than weak townreads or scumreads. A townread like the one I have on you? Not wrong. A townread on a player like davesaz? Could easily be wrong. A scumread on any player this game? Could easily be wrong. But my locktown townread of you? Never wrong. And similarly-strong reads are also not wrong.In post 778, Nero Cain wrote:still, sheeping Mastina kinda worries me for the same reason that I was worried about you and gobble willing to sheep NSG.
Eh, the more farside posts (and similarly so for davesaz to a much, much, much lesser degree), the more I think that this is town from her. I don't actually have a reason backing this, just gut at seeing her content and thinking, "this mindset looks like it comes from town". Best way I can think of describing it is that she has an aura around her which is radiating being town. She just comes across as incredibly genuine and sincere, with a natural fluidity in her posts.In post 789, Vecna wrote:Is this finally what a scum farside looks like?
If it makes you feel better--you sharing many of my same thoughts, but critically, not thoughts identical to mine, is an incredibly promising sign from you.In post 798, Vecna wrote:FML
It's enough to knock you up to the Nero Cain tier of townread right now; I'm pretty confident in locking you in as locktown now. All the town stuff is there, so I'm willing to go out on a limb and back you there as being town. (Once I'm caught up or at a more convenient spot, I'll give a readslist to illustrate this change in positioning. Butyeah, you're definitely town now instead of a mere probably-town.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Oh?In post 840, Quick wrote:Still, Saud had a decent point on mastina after thinking about it over night.
Would like to again say that I think farside is town and also believe Tchill is town, soooooooo.In post 848, Nero Cain wrote:Sorta funny that farside is pushing tchill on the same things that farside is getting pushed for.
Eh. Getting good townreads, not that hard. Getting good scumreads, admittedly harder. Getting enough townreads to POE solve the game? Probably also much harder than it should be to be honest, but probably our best bet at narrowing in on the original scum and lynching them.In post 862, Alchemist21 wrote:This game has a small number of scum for it’s size, so finding scum is going to be significantly harder than usual. Combine that with a chunk of players not taking the game so seriously because of the nature of the setup and I’m not surprised at the difficulty of getting good reads here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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For the record, at this stage, my Alch read is, notably, reversed, albeit hesitantly so.In post 875, Alchemist21 wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me if 1-2 scum were in the people who had to be replaced. Someone pointed out Momo confirmed and didn’t post, and Creature’s an easy read so if that’s scum it should be apparent soon enough.
I think that this is town-him now, but I have heavy caution, heavy doubts about that conclusion, but I am liking his content, think that yes this is probably him as town and I am no longer getting scum vibes from him, but I do admit I am still worried.
Plus, he's probably right in this assessment; there's almost assuredly going to be scum in the less-active players including the replacements. (Of course, not exclusively in that pool; there is also going to be a more-active scum, too, in all likelihood.) I'll have a better idea of where to look when caught up, and I think I can perfectly air this out with a readslist, but this is another notable difference in reads, an incredibly important one.
In fact, let's actually put that into an, as of post 875, readslist:
Nero Cain
Vecna
No łynch/Voted
Auro
Miss Lynch
Hoctac
(the gap here is incredibly small, almost put none at all)
farside22
Quick
Tchill13
Flavor Leaf
Alchemist21
davesaz
Elements
5G Tower
Aristophanes
Jake the Wolfie
momo/Creature
50 Judge Powers
Saudade
EspeciallyTheLies
Something like this, but with the caveat that I need to finish catching up, that this list needs refinement off of the newer content, that it can and probably will change when I've read everything, that this list is from content from 875 and earlier and that I need to perfect it down the road.
But, this is more or less, locktown of locktown, almost-locktown very strong town, strong town, town, nulltown (Ari), nullscum (Jake), lean scum, weak scum, somewhat-mid-strength-scum, somewhat-strong-scum.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Btw the gap between the Auro-Hoctac tier and the farside-Tchill tier is more or less where I think the divide between my reads lies--above that line, I don't think any of my townreads are wrong; below that line, I admit my readscouldbe wrong.
But, the gap between the two tiers is so small that the divide might just be even lower, with me not wrong on any read above Tchill.
From the FL read and below, I fully admit, I could be wrong on--I don't think I am, but the level of confidence there is lower enough that it's where scumcouldbe, even though I don't think theyare.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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There were a couple of votes that stood out as being fake and shit reasoning.In post 920, Vecna wrote:Lulz, and Mastina wagons are always a great way to flush out the people with fake and shit reasoning
Sadly so far nothing -really- stood out. I think?
Hint; they were the only two votes togivereasoning.
No, really.
Literally only two. (Well, FL I guess did give a reason too but he immediately unvoted. Of the, what, five, six players that voted? Only two gave a reason. Unless you count "I'm sheeping" as a reason which I do not. Or "I like wagons" as a reason which I do not.)
Can you guess which two players who voted me gave reasons for it?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I mean, you're notIn post 925, Vecna wrote:I liked most of the Mastina stuff so far, but the big overexplainy post on her townreading me and Auro felt like something a scum player could recycle every game and apply to literally any player with a few bits and pieces changed.wrong, but that doesn't make it any less true or any less valid as analysis. It so happens that, yes, is easily recyclable and thus easy to use as scum just as it can be used when town, but sometimes, even if it's a bit of a cliched reasoning, it's still the most apt reasoning to use.
Not the exact words/reasoning I would use but I would convey similar. ETL's posting is very shallow and lacks depth, lacks followthrough, to it. She posts things which in the moment look plausibly good as passable opinions, but which when looked at in hindsight, don't actually have any true backing to them.In post 962, Vecna wrote:ETL's progression really feels like its gone from good, to slightly less good, to doing a bunch of actions that can be construed as really badly, to then voting like 4 people in a row for reasons I thought made all of those slots obvtown. Extreme situation of thought dissonance
I think ETL is playing a good scumgame as shown by the players townreading her. If ETL is town, then this is not her finest moment tho. The only good a town-ETL would've done this game is having those aforementioned townreads on her. Because like I've said--ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.In post 995, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Ask mastina.
If she is scum, this is good play; if she is town, then there's no real good play to be seen in that approach.
So, really, depends on your alignment here. If you're scum, your play here is excellent as you're doing exactly what you should be doing as scum especially in a game of this nature. If you're town, your play is objectively not good with the one good spot being the ability to have garnered some townreads on your slot, the same thing which is better for scum here than town.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Yeah, exactly.In post 1005, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:It may sound arrogant but I have a probable track record of being a great scum hunter.
And you're not showing it.
You're complaining instead of scumhunting.
Complaining about various stuff in a "woe is me" manner, instead of doing that great scumhunting.
The majority of your posts are not pushing players; the majority of your posts are AtE.
You're not giving reasons for the majority of your reads and the few reasons you have given are largely shallow, surface-level thoughts that have no real depth to them. You're not following through on those thoughts; you're not pushing your reads; you're instead complaining and blaming everyone around you for this.
Which is why I say--if you're town, that's a total failure on your part, where you have every power in the world to have pushed more and done more, but are choosing to blame everyone else, choosing to say it's the fault of the rest of the town rather than your own doing.
But if you're scum, there's no failure at all, because that play is precisely the optimal scum play to make, especially in a game of this nature.
You're doing things that are optimal for scum but are, for a town player, an objective failure of an approach.
The respect I have in your capabilities as a player, the respect I have in your competency,demandsthat in an assessment of your play, balance of probability, that the play that is self-explanatory as scum but which makes no sense as town, is just you as scum.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 1012, Vecna wrote: It isnt about reputation unless youve given a high enough quantity of social handjobs to people.
(*quietly shoves the massive pile of, "I would think badly of this, but it's mastina", under the table*)
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It's possible. After all, some immunities aren't permanent, so it could also work vice-versa where some infections aren't permanent.In post 1073, Creature wrote:Town can recruit infected players back?-
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- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
And you'll be labeled scum until you deliver this promise.In post 1124, Aristophanes wrote:Don't prod me yet plz I'm getting there with this. Taking longer than I'd hoped-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
I'm somewhat skeptical of this.In post 1130, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I think infected people can infect other people by doing night actions but mafia don’t inherently infect people with their actions.
Or be healthcare workers whose jobs are to try and prevent the disease but which require them to be in conditions hazardous given the disease.In post 1164, Nero Cain wrote:
but town gotta have compulsive roles to mimic essential workers.In post 1159, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Omg what if almost everyone has a night action but we have to STAY HOME to prevent it spreading too fast???-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Jake would be the classical compromise lynch where nobody can come to a clear enough consensus to lynch a more active player so they settle on an empty slot. Could be town, could be scum, but it's literally a coinflip because it's the deadest of dead slots. Not the worst lynch to make, but also far from the best because the best we could hope for from the lynch is that we won the lottery and randomly lynched scum; their lynch won't give us information, won't point us to scumbuddies even if they're scum and definitely won't help the town if flipping town.In post 1230, Nero Cain wrote:i'm pretty null on Jake. I don't expect a scum flip but I also wouldn't be surprised if he flips scum. He wouldn't be a bad d1 flip but at the same time it feels like....so underwhelming.
That is to say--not an optimal lynch to make, but push come to shove, if need be; yes, I would roll the die and hope we got lucky with a scumflip, so would be willing to compromise lynch there. But it's far too early to be aiming for a compromise lynch when there's still very viable lynches that aren't compromise lynches on a dead lurker slot.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
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- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
I mean--infection blocker is guaranteed to be in the game, probably in multiple forms. Can't have the alternative wincon if there's no way to trigger said alternative wincon and the town would need a way to trigger said wincon thus there must be roles related to it.In post 1257, Auro wrote:If town doesn't have an infection blocker or reviver, there's a very interesting gamebreaking strategy. Noting this here so I don't forget, remind me post-game.
Easy enough to do if it's that important, but it'd be something I'd have to have the perfect storm of availability to do; I'd need toIn post 1272, Auro wrote:
Explain with examples, pl0x.In post 1270, Hoctac wrote:A lot of her takes are forced and over the top, and she expresses unnatural overconfidence at times.
-Be caught up,
-Have the spare time,
-Be in the right mindset (there are days I don't want to play mafia),
-And have the physical/mental capability to create (need to not be tired).
Those factors all present, walk in the park to do; her iso's almost exclusively that type of content so it's easy enough to pull up examples of it.
Any of those factors absent, impossible to do, tho, sadly. I'd love to do it for you because I'd love to give the case but I just...have my limits as a human to what I can do.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
You're describing the wrong player here; Auro has done plenty of things that are quite good and sincere and show active critical thought with backing and reasoning that displays a trajectory in thought.In post 1292, Vecna wrote:Auro sadly is just busy stating things he thinks will sound good and make people townread him. He's not actually doing genuine reads on the playerlist. He is not trying to solve so far.
You are however perfectly describing ETL's contributions this game.