Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

[midwaybear]

hi everyone
looking forward to a good game

[midwaybear]

That's a good observation with the odds. I did the math and everything checks out. However, that is assuming everything is random. You can generalize it to if we have n scum and 1 town, scum has n/n+1 chance of living. As an exercise, maybe we can figure out the probabilities if there are two town. However, this is based off of everything being completely random, and I don't think our actions here will be random.
pedit: what is NU?

[midwaybear]

i think the point is that it's a crapshoot who gets killed unless we are extremely sure

[midwaybear]

yeah, but the argument argues that it'll probably be scum choosing

[midwaybear]

i wonder where spring is at. But I guess it doesn't really matter because we won't be passing the chain until we're (semi)confident.

[midwaybear]

I expect scum to be doing a lot of IIoA this game ftr

I feel like with this game mechanic information can be seen as analysis.

[midwaybear]

It will be important to have players that are strongly town read to take the quiz but don't fail at quizes.

wdym mean by the "don't fail at quizzes part". Are you suggesting putting in scumread members to see if the quiz ends up passing or failing? This might not be good because some scum are really good at being townread.

[midwaybear]

bruh, I need to work on getting townread easier. Why TR TSE? His posting has been weird and I don't think the images are particularly towny.

[midwaybear]

If you think unwnd is poor scum, then shouldn't you have been happy cuz you caught scum. I agree that the outburst was pretty weird.

[midwaybear]

@midwaybear
Do you have any reads?

I think beeboy and Starbuck could both be town. The disagreement just may be in the way they play the game and not because one's actions were scum motivated.

[midwaybear]

I read beeboy as town, and I feel like that interaction with Starbuck could be TvT yes. So I townread both of them.
I'm not really confident in anyone right now, so I'm not sure who I would hand the chain to. I would probably give it to NDMath or Starbuck because Starbuck seems pretty genuine and NDMath feels townie.

[midwaybear]

Is there any other reasons you think starbuck is town or is it entirely based on that interaction maybe being TvT and your read on Bee? Do you think that interaction could also come from TvS?

I just felt that misunderstood each other and the "attacks" weren't really attacks. That's why I think it is more likely TvT than TvS. I also TR Starbuck because she seems open with the thought which I like.

[midwaybear]

I'm a bit wary of TSE and unwnd, but I'm not confident in anything yet.

[midwaybear]

Captain Starbuck, First Officer Rampage standing by! Your orders, sir!

What? I hope you're trolling lol

Math, Spring and unwnd are all players I think need to provide more content or they are just going to get crushed by the POE as this game progresses and I prefer to mislynch/catch scum do to me playing well not them conceding for no good reason.

It sounds like you are saying if people don't give content/post, you are going to push for their lynch. Not sure I really like that.

Also, who is Morning?

[midwaybear]

The way this game gets played they are going to die. Someone is going to town read an active player regardless of how scummy they are over a very low poster.

Lurking is bad in general, but I don't think this special mechanic makes it worse? I disagree with you second sentence too. Quality over quantity.

[midwaybear]

1) Albert B. Rampage
11) midwaybear
13) springlullaby

yoo I'm actually town read lets go

[midwaybear]

Why is that people just scumread or dislike someone for..disliking them

My exact question.

ngl it's really hard to defend this site to my friends when this is a known meta here lol.

I think town does this more than scum. Town know they are town, but they will occasionally do scummy stuff. When someone calls them out for it, the player might be like "wth, I'm town why are you SRing me, you must be scum!" The problem is that they can't look through the other player's POV, and see that their actions were actually scummy. Whereas I feel scum would be more paranoid and acknowledge the SR.

Where they should be more aware like me and Math.

NDMath is Town.
His thought process is what a

Town

is suppose to be like.

uhh this seems like blatant buddying. NDMath said he does it, but it's sorta funny how obvious this is.

[midwaybear]

When it comes to the chain I think there's benefit in giving to people you scumread, this may seems backwards but you're putting them in a position to commit to a read either way. If people are just throwing the chain around like hypothetical townblocks this can become an issue if the townblock is incorrect

The person you scumread is going to get the chain either way, so they will have to eventually make some sort of decision. I don't think it matters whether they get it early or late.

[midwaybear]

I feel like the arguments might get to a point where we have a plan, but the second to last person gets tilted and passes the chain to the person we wanted killed. I hope this doesn't happen lol

[midwaybear]

Well if this isn’t a vanilla only game I wouldn’t be to mad if I get lynched here as I’m a good Lynch role wise.

??? Does this quote make sense to anyone? If you aren't vanilla, then you should know that this isn't vanilla only. Am I going crazy?

@spring
I might pass it to unwnd because I think TSE is scum
Would not pass to TSE

[midwaybear]

Honestly, I don't think spring not passing the chain is too big of an issue atm.

[midwaybear]

bruh

[midwaybear]

I log on and I see there are 8 new posts, but they are all from you.
pedit: I can sorta see it being town motivated idk. Does seem a bit over the top though, but that's like you this game

[midwaybear]

is this AtE?

[midwaybear]

spring give it to me
you were my first SE lol

[midwaybear]

what happens if you don't fail the quiz, or is it impossible for you to pass?
You don't have to answer btw.

[midwaybear]

why farside and starbuck?

[midwaybear]

why farside and starbuck?

Why not?

whatever

[midwaybear]

Of course!

I approve

[midwaybear]

don't scum gain advantage if quiz is failed?
pedit: LOLOLOL

[midwaybear]

ya that's better. I would prefer not using the quiz as a way to scumhunt, but as a way to get advantages.

[midwaybear]

I don't like this game becoming a systematic event even if that's what it is.

wdym?

[midwaybear]

i honestly care about zero about any "town advantage" i wanna lynch scum at the bottom of the chain thats it

Yes, so don't put scum in the quiz groups. Win-win

[midwaybear]

....
I feel like you are pocketing

[midwaybear]

just pass the chain!!!
he can't change his vote to deny anymore.

[midwaybear]

PASS THE CHAIN
lol

[midwaybear]

why can't we treat the quiz team and chain separately?

[midwaybear]

are you normally like this

[midwaybear]

bruh you just gave him the chain
ABR give beeboy(or me) the chain now

[midwaybear]

uhh who are you

[midwaybear]

for the quiz team?@ABR

[midwaybear]

is beeboy going to be the designated second to last person?

[midwaybear]

I know, but I thought we wanted second to last to be conf town so we control the lynch.
@ABR I already voted yes, so I think it's locked in sorry

[midwaybear]

alright, I'm going to reread. Expect a decision in an hour or two(maybe earlier).
pedit: ABR scum tries to coach his scumbuddy in the thread? That's sorta implausible no offense

[midwaybear]

Thinking of passing the chain to Starbuck ngl

[midwaybear]

I would rather you just do you and fully justify it then sheep a read

how is that a sheep? I already explained why I TR her before.

[midwaybear]

farside, unwnd, tse, starbuck all give me doubts. And then I can't give it to PB or Cakez who I think are town(mostly Cakez). NDMath has posted way too little, and not that much substance. I can see myself giving it to Dunn or beeboy then. I like Dunnstral's posts because he seems critical of things others were saying, and veered away from sheeping, so VOTE: Dunnstral

[midwaybear]

@farside I don't think I really townread TSE. You, starbuck, TSE, and unwnd give me doubts not in the sense of scumread, but I'm pretty sure there are two scum in the 4 of you and probably a scum outside of this subset who is getting TR.

[midwaybear]

TSE got townier after a reread, so I wasn't so sure about unwnd. Dunn was a safe choice(IMO), so I went with him. Not sure why ABR scumreads Dunn.

[midwaybear]

Why were you faking SR on farside? I don't get how it relates to ABR

[midwaybear]

eh I don't think farside is really townie or scummy so far tbh. Don't see why the NK post should change that.
pedit: maybe you should buddy better @unwnd
@farside thinking the same thing lol

[midwaybear]

I really dislike the way we are using the chain right now, ND basically committed to the idea his sole defender is the right person to give the chain to

NDMath townread TSE before TSE started to townread NDMath btw

[midwaybear]

huh where. What did you do?

[midwaybear]

You then say I was trying to pocket you over this?

I was talking about TSE not you because he kept on saying I was his locktown read

[midwaybear]

i didn't really TR anyone else besides you, Cakez, and beeboy. Apparently we are saving Cakez(and beeboy now) to be on the end of the chain so I gave it to you. Pink Ball and ND are sorta swingy reads, but they are more townie than TSE, unwnd, farside, starbuck to me.
pedit: I'm gonna check that out

[midwaybear]

'Cause I'm being townread right now. You can't push me today, you can't scumread me 'cause it will lead to nothing. And you can't townread me either, 'cause if you do, your future case on me is not as good as it would be if you just leave me at null. That's what I think you're doing.

I don't really like how this sounds. I for one do not really townread you, and I get the feel that the people who have townread you didn't really put much thought into it. The next two sentences are also pretty bad...

[midwaybear]

I don't care about you, sorry

it's ok

[midwaybear]

Do we really want spring to be leader? But on the other hand, can't scum always just NK the nominated chain leader so technically spring could always be leader. That would sorta be broken because if spring was scum, she would be untouchable.

[midwaybear]

Did something ever come of this midway lol

not really lol
I guess it was interesting that TSE thought it was you pocketing me instead of him. I feel like scum are more self aware than that, but he does seem to be the player who would make a move like that.

[midwaybear]

we can't though because it's been majority voted

[midwaybear]

My strongest skill set in mafia is reading newbies

Yeah the plan sounds good. I’m not really sure why everyone scumreads cakez though, so I would prefer unwnd to be the weakest link

[midwaybear]

dang this has blew up
ftr I never sr sircakez

[midwaybear]

dude why am I town over BEEBOY

[midwaybear]

dude why am I town over BEEBOY

Because by using my method I have confirmed you as Town from my perspective.
Beeboy is verbally Town but I tend to trust my Method more.

or you're scum and you know who all the town are, so you try to pocket lol

[midwaybear]

yes

[midwaybear]

Ok take your reads, right? and then I want you to do an inverse graph and whatever your first reads were, the opposite of that is gonna be the reality.

is this for me or for everyone?

[midwaybear]

Imma claim when i get back home because some of you will eat crow

The steak of being scum read as PR continues!

might as well hard claim now

[midwaybear]

i thought unwnd was a girl -_-
also stop

[midwaybear]

TSE doesn't even have a reason to SR me other than I'm pushing him and I haven't gotten the chain yet
PB what is a schrodinger's read?

probably a very conflicted null read
he either feels you could be hard town or hard scum
just a guess not trying to put my words in his mouth

[midwaybear]

@starbuck what is the scum motivation in not voting your own quiz team

[midwaybear]

Ok I claim one-shot wiretapper

Once per game i can choose a player before phase end, that players vote on the quiz will be proxy'd by my own instead

I don't receive what the person originally chose and the person affected will not be notified

Formatting on phone hard

that could be a scum PR lol

[midwaybear]

that seems more useful for scum than town ngl

[midwaybear]

yes, but benefits aren't for individual members iirc
it's for scum/town as a whole

[midwaybear]

TSE caught her first

[midwaybear]

good luck for what

[midwaybear]

why is cakez scum?

[midwaybear]

how am I following an agenda? unwnd has been pretty helpful and anti-town. I prefer having her lynched over Cakez
the flight or fight is interesting
I was reading a MU Champs game, and scum went inactive as they were caught (season 7 game 6)

[midwaybear]

it's such a weird town role though...
and it's not necessarily false guilty because if you pick pool of five, it is likely that at least one will be scum
pedit: policy lynch

[midwaybear]

The quiz I am on always fails, it doesn't force me to vote no

then how does it always fail?

[midwaybear]

And he gave the chain to Dunn when he NEVER mentioned Dunn before and was saying he would give Starbuck the chain, like a lot.

I said I was thinking about giving her the chain, but I decided not to because didn't like the defensive nature of her early posts.

[midwaybear]

I was confused why everybody seemed to be scumreading cakez
his posts seemed fine and not really notable

[midwaybear]

you confirm this with the mod?

[midwaybear]

I've scumread midway from the start as well

i didn't have any interactions at the start though with your current scumreads

[midwaybear]

sure, you might as well say everything now

[midwaybear]

i am not scum though. starbuck gave me nervous when I reread, so I gave it to Dunn
place me on a team with 4 hard townreads and we will pass

[midwaybear]

sircakez tone really feels like a resigned townie
and how are we supposed to use unwnd's role in our favor? I still don't trust him
pedit: lynch unwnd

[midwaybear]

i guess unwnd can change beeboy's quiz once, but that doesn't seem that useful.
I prefer keeping cakez
TSE is probably scum now

[midwaybear]

no
i think we should still keep cakez(sorry unwnd)

[midwaybear]

I'm least confident about Unwnd being town and I see their ability hurting us, even unintentionally if town.

agree with this

[midwaybear]

why does starbuck SR sircakez...

[midwaybear]

nvm
also, why do we all think beeboy is town? For all I know, he could be scum fakeclaiming the miller like role. Not sring beeboy, but just a thought.

[midwaybear]

Bye unwnd!!

You realized you killed cakez not unwnd right...

[midwaybear]

wait i don't see it
where does it say that?
sorry

[midwaybear]

beeboy and PB, huh? how do you misread that beeboy...
PB was that a RT?

[midwaybear]

i mean unwnd should be town based on his reaction, but I still don't feel happy about this.
PB what was the purpose?

[midwaybear]

Unfortunate that mafia got a JOAT...

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team

after not before

passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.
I also disagree with the Raya scumreads. I think a lot of people have been saying that she makes the "safe" reads which I don't exactly agree with. She was townreading Cakez before he became obv town, and I can't really see any necessarily "safe" reads.

when you vote someone for chain leader, they become BP. Scum know this. They did NOT try to kill unwnd.

Unless there was no scum in the neighborhood but it failed because ____? Power roles

Is it really likely there's a PR that allows scum to fail a quiz without even having to be on it? That seems to overpowered to me because not only does it gain scum an advantage but it also causes a lot of town confusion and makes us believe someone on the quiz is scum.

I'm honestly gonna just go with scum is on the quiz

I like this quote because some people(like Dunnstral and beeboy) were trying to suggest that scum were outside the quiz team. That's super unlikely, and suggesting that seems more scum motivated than town motivated.

@Pink Ball. Yesterday, you said that I was scum upon a SirCakez scum flip.
Also, we don't really know that beeboy is town, so I do not really support him on the quiz team. unwnd is safely conf town though.
I think the quiz team should be me, unwnd, farside, Raya

[midwaybear]

fine with NDMath too

[midwaybear]

Lets hurry up and give me the chain so 80% of the player list can shut up about lynching me today already. Losers.

you realize this sounds really bad right?

[midwaybear]

replace farside with ND then
im town, so are Raya and ND. unwnd is conf town

[midwaybear]

Why are we putting raya in the quiz after they were on the failed quiz team?

I have a TR on her, and the quiz failing doesn't exactly point to her being scum.
pedit: ND's posts seem natural and have good ideas(like choosing the team AFTER passing the chain), and I think he would be more "involved" as scum. I explained my TR on Raya and unwnd is conf town.

[midwaybear]

Oh, I see why the no kill points to scum being off the quiz, but a role that could false guilty seems weird considering we already have unwnd's role.
My theory is that they either gambited(as there are many strong players in this game) or a town PR saved the kill(less likely).

[midwaybear]

D1 team
D2 team = D1 team - 1 player

This is the worst idea I've ever read in my life

I agree with ABR
@beeboy Ok, but scum doesn't always fail the quiz(if the reward is bad). We only have one conf town.

[midwaybear]

I'm fine with assuming that scum has the ability to tamper, but I don't like assuming everyone in the quiz group is town just because scum might have that ability.

[midwaybear]

Midway and raya are my new scumreads

YES

NO

[midwaybear]

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

Sweet, so now we know we have to leave you for the final 2

you said I was scum if cakez was scum. Does his town flip not make you reconsider?

[midwaybear]

But I chose Unwnd since I think he's town and we would gain a lot more info from him than we would giving it to Beeboy who was the alternative option.

What do you mean by this? Was his reaction EOD not enough to convince you he’s town?

Anyways, Raya is making me reconsider, so the only person I’m comfortable “recycling” would be farside. Remaining 3 can be me, unwnd, ND.

[midwaybear]

I think PB is fine too because of the reaction test.
@Raya We’re not going with the same group because then we’re going to fail again. Sure there might be a tamperer, but it’s still too risky
@Dunn so what

If you guys really don’t want me, then it can be {unwnd, Farside, PB, ND}
Pedit: ...

[midwaybear]

Ok, we’re deciding the quiz EOD anyways, so whoever really stands out as townie can get the last spot.

[midwaybear]

argh, I can see both sides here.
I feel like scum gambited, but then again unwnd was an obvious nk choice...

[midwaybear]

imagine thinking that the quiz team consisted of the top 4 townreads...

[midwaybear]

I mean scum might not want to pass the quiz if the reward is bad. We can soft conf town if the reward is good like a joat.
pedit: @starbuck interesting

[midwaybear]

is the advantage always going to be a PR?

[midwaybear]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players

you can't say this...

[midwaybear]

oof that's unfortunate

[midwaybear]

what happened in the PT? Can someone give an unfiltered unbiased summary?
I've heard stuff about Raya hammering unwnd, and now stuff about spring.

[midwaybear]

even saying that you're a manipulative scum player and that your USER NAME is even manipulative because she thinks you chose your user name to influence the games you are in.

is this legit?!

[midwaybear]

how is "pink ball" manipulative?
because it has postive associations?

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure when the numbers thin out for quizzes but it is inevitable.

wait, so it's still a 5 person quiz team tonight?

[midwaybear]

YOURE A BALLER
thank you

[midwaybear]

oh wait i thought you put me

[midwaybear]

why did you choose pink ball?
He's a solid consensus TR.

[midwaybear]

unwnd please put me in for pinkball
I'm desperate to be neighborized

[midwaybear]

also, I thought we were doing quiz team after passing the chain
anyways, why pink ball?
pedit: it'll be fun@raya, starbuck

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure when the numbers thin out for quizzes but it is inevitable.

unwnd what did you mean by this?

[midwaybear]

NDmath is asking for a failed attempt.

Stop scumreading him due to inactivity.

[midwaybear]

so you propose this team to see ND and TSE interact? OK
and how does it help with POE as raya said?
why pink ball?

[midwaybear]

is him requesting for replacement NAI then?

[midwaybear]

yeah, let's decide the team after handing the chain. The current team doesn't really seem appealing, and unwnd's reasoning for it is iffy.

Deny team

[midwaybear]

Spoiler: Reply to Starbuck's iso part 1

At this point, what about TSE's posting was weird and why weren't his images townie? What do you think about TSE now?

At that point, most if not all of his posts were images... I am still suspicious of him because he doesn't really explain his reads. People townread him because his posts seem genuine which I guess I can see, but I wish he was more cooperative.

Have your reads from these posts changed? If so, why?

I'm a bit more hesitant to call you town, but this ISO on me feels pretty town motivated(trying to resolve a conflicted slot) which I like. As for beeboy, he could be scum gambiting but I don't really have evidence. He remains a townread. My other townreads are spring and Raya.

This is a weird push at TSE. How did you go from "his posting is weird" to "TSE is scum"?

A lot of his posts downright didn't make sense. Like what kind of post is this?

Well if this isn’t a vanilla only game I wouldn’t be to mad if I get lynched here as I’m a good Lynch role wise.

1. What was it about farside and I being on the quiz team that made you ask in the first place?
2. Why did you stop pushing the question?
3. Why did you turn around and approve the team without getting adequate answers to your questions here?

1. Because you were both on my radar of doubt.
2+3. I didn't care that much.

Why did you apologize to ABR for voting to approve the quiz team?

Because there's no scum pt for me to apologize to him in private

[midwaybear]

Spoiler: part 2

So why post this and not pass to me?

Upon rereading, I found you to be really defensive which put you on my doubt list.

You had mentioned TSE and Unwnd as possible scumreads, but then you backtrack here saying they give you doubts but "not in the sense of scumread." So which is it? And what's with the flip flopping?

Why do you think there's 2 scum in the 4 of us?

eh TSE is still a weird slot, but unwnd's behavior EoD seemed townie. I thought there was 2/4 scum because your arguments read like tvs. Idk anymore though.

I'm assuming you're saying that "Dunn was a safe choice" because he was on the quiz team, but so was I. So what would have been the difference between giving it to Dunn or giving it to me?

You were a safe choice?

Who had a townread on PB that didn't put much thought into it? What made you feel that way?

Not sure who specifically, but the whole group sorta put PB in the "town" pile without much reason IMO. Other people like Cakez and unwnd also voiced their concerns about sheeping which I agree with.

It's really hard for me to believe that this idea came solely from you.

It did though.

Sorry guys, this is longer than I thought, but I'm glad I'm doing it because midway just went from my null pile to my SUPER OMG SCUM pile. Probably above spring.

why? Because I changed my mind a lot? Because I seemed to be associated with ABR?

[midwaybear]

I don't really have a read on you.
ABR was at best an anti town distraction and at worst, scum. You haven't really made me reconsider.

[midwaybear]

Ok if you're ok with that then we should go with that plan. TSE and Midway as bottom 2. We lynch Midway.

Sounds like you’re ready for another situation where two town are in the bottom two. Your argument against me is a little hypocritical imo

[midwaybear]

You say I have safe reads, but look at yours. The rest of your case is just tunneling and should be NAI. Like me changing my mind a lot is not scummy, and neither is me wanting to be put on the quiz team.

[midwaybear]

Why is everybody just ignoring how SCUMMY ABR was?
What has Titus done to make you all reconsider?
pedit: how coincidental. most of what I remember from your posts here is you explaining why ABR is bad

[midwaybear]

Huh. Town want to survive too though.

[midwaybear]

I’m not trying to be anti town though. Raya’s case on me doesn’t really make sense, and I bet this is another case of group think where people just randomly sheep on other people without even knowing why.

[midwaybear]

Honestly I think the game has the opposite problem. I don't see anyone sheeping really.

so all of town SR cakez. I don't believe it.

[midwaybear]

uh no
IIRC cakez/unwnd was being planned to be the final two for a long time, and everyone was just OK with it.

[midwaybear]

Idk. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of independent thought, and many players are saying things but not really saying anything useful. We had a brief conversation about what no one dying meant, but aside from that it basically seems like Day 1 Redux.

[midwaybear]

I agree with beeboy here. My townreads so far are {beeboy, unwnd, spring, TSE, starbuck}. beeboy has been doing a lot to keep us together and it's fine that he changed his reads. unwnd's reaction at EoD was pretty townie and the way he has handled the quiz team proposal today doesn't really feel scum motivated? spring is sorta a gut TR that I believe in. TSE I was really doubtful(if he is scum, I have gotten hard pocketed). However, this seems to be his meta, and I'm fine with it. Starbuck I also had doubts about, but her last few posts seem like she is genuinely trying to understand the game.

This leaves {Titus, ND, farside, PB, Dunn, Raya}. My hot take is that PB, ND, Titus are town, but I'll have to think about it.

[midwaybear]

no, I think it's 7 to approve and 6 to decline
It's sort of how for no hang you need half but for hang you need more than half

[midwaybear]

Dang. I'm going to check what their reasons were.

[midwaybear]

Lets just decide the team after we pass the chain. I’m not entirely comfortable with far side and raya.

[midwaybear]

First of all, what if the reward is another op role. I don’t want scum getting another JOAT or something similarly powerful. Also, they might pull the “tampering” card, and then we would have to invalidate the night’s result. That’s why I think we should go completely outside of last nights pool. If scum tampered last night, they likely cannot tamper this night. But I doubt scum didn’t tamper last night.

[midwaybear]

oh wow. Now unwnd has fallen prey to the group think. Why are my actions "fundamentally" scummy? Can you give me actual reasons like Raya did, so I have something to refute?
Also, Raya, I don't think my reads are that noncommittal.

[midwaybear]

Bruh is having weak reads really scum-indicative? Maybe I'm actually uncertain. Why else do you SR me?
pedit: can you pull up some examples where I did that? I'll try to explain what I was thinking.

[midwaybear]

Why do you scumread me?

[midwaybear]

ndmath, why are you lurking and also saying the most useless stuff? I'm sorry, but you pop in once every 24 hours and basically feed into the groupthink mentality. Your posts have barely any game-advancing content, and I'm pretty sure you have quoted what other people said more than you actually give your thoughts.

[midwaybear]

so attacking NDMath for legit reasons is convenient now. How about you tell that to everyone who scumreads me for WISHY WASHY reads? That's not even necessarily scum indicative too!

[midwaybear]

I think it has become a feigned ignorance instead of a characteristic if that makes sense.

NO this does not make sense. What does this even mean?
pedit: yes, because they are changing!

[midwaybear]

oh wait, I sorta see what you mean by that. However, I'm not really confident in my reads. Right now, the only "confident" TR I have is in beeboy/unwnd which is pretty obvious. I am less confident about {you, TSE, spring}, but I still TR all three over the rest(maybe add Pink ball too).
@starbuck

[midwaybear]

Do you think that the hivemind is simply misguided then? I don't remember you caring much about NDMath was doing until it became a point of people not really liking him and being one of on the chopping block. This isn't meant to point your own argument back at you, but my problem with you right now is that are simply commenting on events instead of being involved with them.

Yes, it is definitely misguided. Quiz team had scum yesterday for sure, and the reason nobody died was either because of some unknown PR or scum gambitting. You just let the townread people from Day 1 coast without doing anything much D2. Yes, I didn't really care about ND, but I am actually getting concerned that the consensus seems to be that he is town/null.
As for your last sentence, how am I not involved? I don't get that.

[midwaybear]

no, I am NOT dying today

[midwaybear]

since you're here, can you give some quotes about my "town tone"? That way, I feel like people might actually listen because right now all you're saying is "midway town" and people don't really buy it.
Also, I TR starbuck. I like her last few posts and they seem town motivated like when she did the ISO.
@TSE

[midwaybear]

I just feel like I'm not getting a definitive answer from you. It's fine to not be confident, but it seems like you're keeping reads up to revision whenever it suits the best possible outcome. A lot of I don't knows and I'm not sure yet suddenly your brain starts to figure things out the moment a bit of ire comes your way. Even now you say scum team had scum for sure yet the thought is unfinished. You're not involved because it's really not that hard to just, comment on things. It's an open thread, a lot of people can do the work for you. It's not necessarily scum indicative to take a backseat but I don't feel like you're really processing anything. It just sort of happens. Then you respond when you need to. If you're outside of the social circle then I'd assume you are against them in some sort of way, yet you seem so willing to let them be wrong? Does it not bother you if you disagree with the direction of the thread?

What is the question you want answered?
Maybe I haven't really been being proactive. That's a fair point, but I do think I also try to move discussion to new areas(like attacking ND and giving my TRs). Also, you know it's harder to contribute when everybody is against you right(at least for me)?
How do I seem willing to let the group think continue?? have you been reading my posts? smh

[midwaybear]

ok, I see why those might ping your scum radar. That is a problem for me.
I think Raya is scum, so I'll try to pull up some quotes. Also, isn't it also good to find townreads too? I gave some earlier and we can talk about that.

[midwaybear]

actually she seems townie now...
I'm still semi-confident that scum is in this pool of six(five)
{Titus, raya, farside, dunn, ND}. I don't really think Pink Ball is likely to be scum anymore because of the reaction test. I disagree with farside that it felt fake. Also, his feelings about being pressured to solve seem legit.

[midwaybear]

tbh Dunns reasoning to pass the chain to NDMath gives me severe w/w pings. He never mentioned concerns about NDMath before, and then he just passed the chain out of the blue due to fear of "lurker lynch"
mmm
pedit: Titus, you probably are. It's just that I don't really like how ABR was playing. You've been meh ig(but you didn't reread).

[midwaybear]

yuck about raya or unwnd?

[midwaybear]

bruh she quoted unwnd
are you reading?

[midwaybear]

This game has too many people all seemingly doing their own thing and then a vocal majority figuring things out inbetween their ramblings. It's hard to read.

let's make a townblock or something

[midwaybear]

are you that confident all 3 are town? I like starbuck, but im less sure about the rest...
@titus
pedit: ndmath is not town enough

[midwaybear]

I'll townblock with TSE/unwnd/beeboy

[midwaybear]

what is scumsiding as town?
unwnd is town. You should reread EoD1 and look at unwnds reaction to almost dying.

[midwaybear]

Also why would you approve of the quiz if you think it had scum on it? This is news to me.

are you talking to me? I fell victim to the group think Day 1.

[midwaybear]

TSE, do you realize that midwaybear is pocketing you, right?

ah yes. I totally want to pocket the person who has already been townreading me as scum

Also, this is really bad. Everyone is just assuming that I'm going to die tonight which is similar to what happened to Cakez yesterday. Hopefully once Raya finds her quotes, I'll be able to convince more of you.

[midwaybear]

mmm
I honestly don't really like the deals where someone says "we lynch [player] and if I'm wrong, you guys can lynch me" because it's super hard tunneling and the other person manages to talk their way out of it the next day.

[midwaybear]

I'm just annoyed that everyone is assuming that I'm dying today. That's legit the definition of apathy.
I suggest final two between ND/Dunn a big part because Dunn passing the chain to ND was pretty awkward IMO.

[midwaybear]

And you passing the chain to Dunn wasn't awkward?

Ok, but do you see what my point is?

[midwaybear]

spring thought ABR softed a PR for some reason
also, cakez flipped town.

[midwaybear]

BEEBOY? Why?
also here

Just to be clear, I'm supposing that was a softclaim of somekind ABR.
No way out of it otherwise.

[midwaybear]

hmph. I don't really townread him anymore though because he hasn't done much D2+EoD1
maybe you should read dunn's chain pass to NDMath. super weird

[midwaybear]

I'll look at that. Do you think Spring is scum? Do you understand if Dunn is scum, your pass looks really bad?
I love your personality but there's too many small things that make it impossible to TR you.

I agree that the Spring/ABR chain pass makes little sense, but I like her actions outside of it. Yes, I get that if Dunn is scum, it looks bad(and he probably is).

[midwaybear]

I had a gut TR, but I'll try to find some quotes to support it.

[midwaybear]

She replaced in Saturday...
And if you read, you would know she started a reread. Nice try Dunn

[midwaybear]

And my bad, 4 days. I guess that isn't enough time to realize that SirCakez hasn't died. Why isn't that guy posting or getting prodded, by the way?

Fair enough

@TSE why are you ok with my lynch? That's not right. Even if I die and flip town, people aren't going to start listening to you

[midwaybear]

Spoiler: Raya

If you think unwnd is poor scum, then shouldn't you have been happy cuz you caught scum. I agree that

the outburst was pretty weird

.

This is just me agreeing with Cakez that TSE was overreacting. I don't really see how it reads like hedging.

I think beeboy and Starbuck could both be town

. The disagreement just may be in the way they play the game and not because one's actions were scum motivated.

What did you want me to say? Yeah it was a "weak" read, but it was also less than 200 posts into the game.

I'm a bit wary of TSE and unwnd, but I'm not confident in anything yet.

I legit said "I'm not confident in anything yet". You can't force reads out of someone. When I first read the argument, and I felt that TSE was overreacting, but perhaps there was something that unwnd did that made him so frustrated. Now when I reread it, it's funny

I log on and I see there are 8 new posts, but they are all from you.
pedit:

I can sorta see it being town motivated idk

. Does seem a bit over the top though, but that's like you this game

TSE had just quoted something from a scum player in one of his previous games. I actually thought the quote could potentially come from town which shows the disconnect between TSE and the rest of the game. This was more of an on the spot reaction, and the wishy washyness was probably because I knew it came from scum but I thought it could also come from town.

farside, unwnd, tse, starbuck all give me doubts

I'm guessing this is what you wanted in bold. I had the chain at that moment. I originally wanted to pass it to Starbuck, but after rereading I found that both starbuck/farside and unwnd/TSE gave me doubts because I wasn't sure if theirr arguments were TvT.

i guess unwnd can change beeboy's quiz once, but that doesn't seem that useful.
I prefer keeping cakez

TSE is probably scum now

I said this because it was pretty clear unwnd and cakez both were town. I originally thought unwnd/TSE was w/v which is why I said TSE was probably scum. I don't think so anymore because this seems to be meta.

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine

and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team

after not

before passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.

Yeah, I see where this comes across as non-committal because I say that he is scummy, but that his anger felt genuine. I mean that was just my thought about him, and I ultimately still SR him. I don't see how the second bolded part is relevant.

argh, I can see both sides here.

I feel like scum gambited, but then again unwnd was an obvious nk choice...

Not sure what you wanted to see here. I still don't know whether scum gambited with a no kill or that they just were off-team. I'm leaning towards gambit just because I still don't really like Dunn/you/farside.

I don't really have a read on you.

ABR was at best an anti town distraction and at worst, scum

. You haven't really made me reconsider.

I said ABR was super anti-town, and I honestly couldn't really read it. He was almost to the point of openwolving, and I don't think scum are that obvious.

[midwaybear]

I forgot NDMath

I wonder why

[midwaybear]

There are no consensus townreads except for unwind and you

[midwaybear]

I think pink ball is a good choice. He’s been under the radar, but he doesn’t feel scummy(Nd)

[midwaybear]

Replace farside with pink ball

[midwaybear]

. . .

[midwaybear]

I seem townie now or is that referring to someone else?

yes, you

[midwaybear]

NDMath has 18 posts. I am definitely OK with him being at the bottom of the chain.

Yes sir
On another note, I really don't want beeboy to die. He's the guy keeping us together.

[midwaybear]

I really do think it's proscum especially right now so

I don't like your reasoning even if you think they're scum.

Why is denying the proposed team proscum right now? After all, we still have a week and it's not the last possible proposal. And what does your second statement mean(bolded)?

We can afford failure this early

not really...

I don't think ND is the ideal lynch today, even if he hasn't posted, I'd like to get more info of the gamestate for D3 and lynching the lurker is not he best alternative for that matter

Who do you want to lynch then? This is the exact reason why lurking works.

unwnd is town, but a lot of the things he says don't make sense.

[midwaybear]

Good job, you've finally got a firm scum read.

says the guy who has only stated scumreads on me and ABR(and Starbuck I guess)

[midwaybear]

On what notion do you disagree? Don't just say it doesn't make sense

I asked you a question in the post you quoted. Would appreciate answer.
Also, you were being very complacent in 2555.

[midwaybear]

bad town still passes quiz

[midwaybear]

Titus why am I scum again?

[midwaybear]

hmph
well don't forget that I townread sir cakez when the discussion started to float around that him and unwnd were going to be the final two

[midwaybear]

wth
why are you so confident that I'm getting lynched?!?!?!?

[midwaybear]

He’s passing it to Dunnstral
If not, he’s giving it to Pink Ball
Mark my words

[midwaybear]

Wth has NDMath done all game?
you really need to reconsider how you evaluate people. Maybe I’ll become a lurker and post 1 reactionary post a day. I’ll surely get townread no?
SMH

[midwaybear]

Good job to Starbuck for asking bee boy for his reads, and then passing the chain without even mentioning beeboy.
:coolspeak:

Pedit: yes sir

[midwaybear]

Here's the other part of my thought process on ND that I forgot to add above, he followed the plan yesterday when he had a choice not to. I'd like to see what he does with it since all on the quiz currently are saved.

Who didn’t follow the plan when they had a choice not to?
What is this logic?,

[midwaybear]

tbf I took like 30 minutes to reply.

Yeah, but she didn’t even say anything like “ok seems like beeboy isn’t going to reply, so I guess I will...”
Pedit: whatever...

[midwaybear]

Stop with ur freaking deathtunnel on me.
NDMath pass it to TSE

[midwaybear]

My thought process behind that is
TSE-me-pink ball/spring- pink ball/spring - Dunn or titus
Final two should always be Dunn and titus

[midwaybear]

my next problem is if you were town you should be taking a stance whether you're confident or not. If you're town you want to put pressure on people to get a read on them. Saying such non-committal statements won't get that reaction and therefore won't gain you as much info.

How is this even alignment indicative?! That’s more of a play style thing.

Of course NDMath has to make it obvious that he’s passing to PB/Dunn just to make himself look more townie
At this rate, town is going to be lynched again today. Hooray for group think.

[midwaybear]

Scum : viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82731
Town: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82949
I complain a lot less as scum. Actually, I don’t really complain as either alignment, but whatever.