I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 2916, votato wrote:best reason: lynch all lurkers.
worst reason: i mostly like the content when there is content. I think you're more likely scum. i think re-reading the part of the game where i was pushing at you, midway, and maduisha will probably shed light. in particular, what did joq do? i feel like you have kind of skated by this game.
as a mod that likes to root for scum teams, datisi is sitting in his mod PT laughing at us for being incompetent
hes also gonna quote this PM and laugh extra at me. ::((((((((
This post also makes me think you might have more reasons to push Apogee than DK? So, why DK...
i was asked to give reasons to vote apogee, so i did
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
also dk needs to die because he is making it harder to game solve
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
u dont deserve to win as town at this point votato.
.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
In post 2980, DkKoba wrote:u dont deserve to win as town at this point votato.
.
lynching me won't prevent me from winning as town. Unless you're scum and you think you can get another mislynch tomorrow
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
well i need time to go re read apogee and enomis' isos
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
In post 373, joqiza wrote:Alright let's do this, I went through the whole thread again, starting from the top, and I have some thoughts on everyone, here are the notes I've taken. I'll be around for a while on-and off today so please AMA.
Votato
Probably town but still sus in that they constantly start wagons and back off them before any real pressure is applied, their “reaction tests” lack any sort of conviction and any conclusion from them is reached far too easily. Push on Koba was OK but jsyk I think you need way more than that to determine Koba’s alignment. Randomly threw out an apogee/maduisha scumteam without bothering to rr and then immediately caved saying he picked randomly and “gotta generate that content.” By the way, I think it’s funny that as soon as I point out that there’s not enough content for me suddenly there’s like three people grandstanding about getting content, I don’t think that’s even necessarily scum indicative I just hate it lmao. I don’t think votato and midwaybear are a scum team based on their interactions. Voted me with absolutely zero conviction and then immediately unvoted me before I had even responded with anything. Probably still town but the “need to appear active” without contributing to a gamesolve is a red flag. Currently on the maduisha wagon I was waiting to see if they would jump off again but honestly at this point it’s just a behavior pattern and I don’t know how to read into it any further. Light townread
The three lynches I have really considered today are Maduisha/Apogee/enomis, and of those three my strong preference is enomis. This is not a reaction test nor a “push for content,” as of rn my intent is to have enomis in the graveyard unless he comes back and truly drops thunder and makes me re-evaluate. I have learned to keep an open mind about these things but rn the urge to death tunnel within me.
To give some space for discussion/re-evaluation, @enomis, what I would want is a read list, and who you would want lynched if it were not you, and why.
If there is a 4th player I would throw into my above lynchlist, it would be votato, simply because he seems more capable as a player and there are certain red flags which I’ve noticed. That said, if he is scum he is playing fairly well IMO and he was the first person outside of Koba to actually take initiative and try to evaluate my slot, even if the attempt was surface-level, in my personal experience this has been strongly strongly town-indicative.
The rest of the players at the table I don’t really want lynched today for reasons I’m already talked about. To be honest, as of rn I am evaluating every single one of my TRs, but I think this is an inter-day thing, I want enomis lynched and if I am alive on Day 2 then I come back and re-think everything based on the information from his flip.
It’s about 2am my time and I have work tomorrow so I’m probably not going to respond to any questions for awhile, but I should be around a bit for my lunch break and tomorrow evening.
VOTE: Enomis
Spoiler: Stage2
In post 1138, joqiza wrote:also I want to know if it's worth my time to try to go into the midway vs. votato thing or if we've moved past that cuz I don't really sr either of them but i don't want to probe into the actual arguments unless i have to because they're dense @midwaybear @votato
In post 1218, Maduisha wrote:Also, Joqiza has showed up in the thread again, so I want to ask him why did he vote nobody after clearing Apogee several pages ago while claiming to scumread people other than Apogee. Especially considering I was an option by the time.
I'm still very frustrated about that, this is scummy and nobody else seems to care.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about tbh, I've only voted 2 people this game, Apogee and enomis, in both cases to start a wagon on them. There was a period of time where I unvoted Apogee and wasn't voting anyone cuz I was thinking through Apogee's response, I wasn't even thinking about starting a wagon on anyone at that point until I'd thought things through. I don't really understand what the obsession here is with having a vote on a player at all times, I don't find it productive at all, I'm not trying to use my vote to signal my level of scumread i'm trying to use it as a weapon to get someone lynched
I am saying that you voted Apogee, argued with him and ended up unvoting, but before voting Apogee you said you scumread me. You vote Apogee in 376, when my wagon (on your so claimed second scumread!!) already existed from Ydrasse's vote in parked on me in 284 and Votato's vote in 337. When you unvote Apogee in 393, my wagon is still fresh with 2 votes and it even gets more traction with 427 which is Midway's vote.
Your second preferred lynch slot is getting a thick wagon and you decide not to interact? I'm not saying you have to have a vote on someone at all times, but please tell me how do you scumread me for basically all of D1 and then have no interest in pushing me when others agree that I'm scummy. Especially after you've been satisfied by Apogee's response. Honestly, if Votato weren't a liar and an emotional manipulator, I would want your head before his because you are making no sense here and you are deflecting by calling it an obsession. I call it coherence.
i'm just going to respond to this because this is a really weird post, like first of all i don't even recall perfectly but why would the exact mechanical placement of my vote matter. like it feels like you think that at all times i have to be placing my vote on the person i SR the most, and you're trying to catch me in some kind of inconsistency there. i've already explained i think but i just voted apogee because no one was voting him and i wanted him to take my push seriously so i could get a better feel for his slot, then i voted enomis later because i wanted him lynched. i get you guys are super anal about voting but i just wasnt putting that much thought into it. also i dont understand your thought process here, like if i am scum to your town why would i not want to place a vote on your THICC wagon lol. honestly i don't think it's even good that you were run up to L-1 because you softclaimed villager so if ur town u just narrowed down PRs for mafia but no one seems to understand this point.
anyway, why would you think that me not voting you there would be alignment indicative, like what was going through your head that started with "he didn't vote me" and ended with "therefore he is mafia," i want to understand
In post 1214, joqiza wrote:
I agree that there is some questionable behavior in the ISO. 1) justifying reads through "VC analysis" -- this is very easily an excuse not to analyze people's behavior. 2) general refusal to provide clarification for reads or follow up on logic, 3) some evidence of flip-flopping on people such as enomis, or at least an inability to express a coherent read
@Quick
Flip-flopping isn't Scummy, it's actually Townie for a game like this.
And I said I would do more work if I make it to D2.
But if these are your reasons, okay, I guess.
Besides, you don't believe MY cases for some God awful reason. Probably because I haven't made a 1,000 word case on someone or because I am not pushing the same people over and over excessively.
I do TR effort yeah.
I think flip-flopping is sometimes NAI but i would not agree it is townie.
i gave you 24hr so you have time to make a 1000 word case too. But I don't need 1000 words. Im still open to a counterwagon
Effort is most NAI, but sometimes it is.
I gave my case within like the first 15 posts or something. Or I just suck at this game and I deserve to be lynched.
Why is votato Town?
I would prefer a wall post, maybe a mini wall post, with posts cited. that is my fetish
votato was townlean in beginning of the game and i stopped reading him and bear. i will read now. but he has been very patient imo.
i will obviously share my conclusions and discuss before i actually hammer
In post 815, votato wrote:4. im not interested in convincing you. you've decided to tunnel me. thats fine, i dont need to convince you since youre gonna just confirmation bias everything i say. i just need to convince 6 townies. or really just 4 townies.
here u r referring to midwaybear and saying that bear is "conf biasing" you which implies he is town, but u say you "just need to convince 6 townies" like if bear is 1 townie and there are 6 other townies that's 7 townies and that only leaves you as scum ???
In post 2066, joqiza wrote:eh i'm gonna wait for votato to respond to what i asked before i go into things too deeply
why do you want me to hammer before he even has the chance to respond?
In post 2121, joqiza wrote:Alright I kind of came into this thinking that quick vs votato might be TvT but I kind of FOS quick after this, like I'm just floored by how quickly he jumped onto the "scumslips" and how he basically wanted votato lynched before he could respond. I feel like anyone with any decent amount of experience should know that these sort of statements aren't really alignment indicative, both town and mafia do this kind of weird shit you see genuine certified scumslips very very rarely. and in fact it's funny because if you look in his iso one of the first posts he makes is this, so yah, he is aware.
In post 753, Quick wrote:I have only read about 8% of the game or less fwiw.
how can we take you seriously then? did you see a scumslip or something?
I pretty much never see Scum slips. I am pretty biased against them actually.
In post 2140, joqiza wrote:anyway fellas i'm basically gonna hammer quick here in a bit i think my mind's pretty made up at this point. i went thru votato and I think he has some decent contributions today. I really like the push on maduisha starting 337, continuing in 478 and 487, kind of ending with 540 and 587. this push is a lot better and more thorough i feel like then what he was doing previously. now to be fair he did do this AFTER i pointed out why his earlier pushes were kind of weak, so he might've just adapted this game, but in any case he's certainly done more for us than quick has done. i feel like his responses to bear's case in 803 and 804 are decent too btw
In post 2179, Maduisha wrote:Alright, going to make the proposal of pressuring Joqiza together today to squeeze tells from him because nobody wanted to hear me out D1 and people don't seem to like the idea of lynching his partner Votato. Joqiza has done scummy shit that I already pointed out before over and over, and he got away with it for free because people were not feeling comfortable from jumping out of the Quick wagon and I think that was a big mistake, so let's get the ball rolling.
VOTE: Joqiza
Furthermore, his fake "consideration" to choose who he was voting was staged and clearly fake. He saw me accusing Votato of being fake with his petition for time and tried to patch it and make it look legit by faking an ISO read. I think it's clear why he hammered Quick regardless of his towntells: he did not want to bus his partner D1 because that's death sentence, but tried to play slightly indecisive so people would think he actually considered it and buy their bullshit distancing.
Imagine thinking that votato and I are a scumteam and I left my partner on L-1 for 24 HOURS. ON DAY 1 LOL I couldve hammered quick at any time and been done with it but I wanted to give him a chance. Somehow despite posting 366 times he didn't even read the game, i don't regret it and i made the optimal decision with the information i had to work with. quick/votato probably TvT anyway II'm guessing I didn't even have a shot at a correct hammer. maybe should have led a counterwagon but i wasn't liking quick's posts at EoD
In post 2183, votato wrote:so i think at this point that there is probably scum in joqiza and maduisha. Leaning towards it being joq. This kill is interesting. It's such a bad kill that it tells me that it was probably not SEs doing the kill. Midway was not the towniest player and certainly wasn't contributing. I don't want to get into wifom, but i think this kill actually clears me. There's no world in which liking midway helps scum!me. Yes he was tunnelling me. But he didn't have a case and no one was listening to him. I had no reason to kill him and the kill implicates me. Actually i think maduisha is on to something here. VOTE: joqiza
This is probably one of the worst posts I've seen since I started playing forum mafia so I want to break it down for you line by line.
“so i think at this point that there is probably scum in joqiza and maduisha” – what is the justification for this analysis? Why is there a scum in the two of us and it can’t be TvT? I’m not even saying I disagree with you but you don’t get to throw out this kind of stuff without any justification
“Leaning towards it being joq” how did you go from being willing to counterwagon maduisha with me to leaning towards it being me? This is a complete 180
“It's such a bad kill that it tells me that it was probably not SEs doing the kill.” and so your conclusion is it was me? Lmao don’t think I missed the missing logical step here which is that “yeah and joq is shit”
“Midway was not the towniest player and certainly wasn't contributing” sure
“. I don't want to get into wifom, but i think this kill actually clears me. There's no world in which liking midway helps scum!me.” LMFAO. For the record, the kill should neither kill nor implicate you, it could come from you as scum trying to remove a threat, it could come from scum outside of you trying to frame you, and any evaluation of your slot should use the nightkill as secondary information to your overall body of work this game. Anyone who tries to pivot off the nightkill to justify a position is on my radar rn. Ur making me wish I hammered you
“Yes he was tunnelling me. But he didn't have a case and no one was listening to him.” You had four votes on you yesterday
“I had no reason to kill him and the kill implicates me.” See above
“Actually i think maduisha is on to something here.” you better have a good explanation for this complete 180 on maduisha because last I checked we were on the same page. She is accusing us of being a scumteam btw did you happen to miss that LOL
In post 2203, joqiza wrote:Seriously does no one find this progression of events sus:
1. Maduisha: I think votato and joqiza are a team, so I'm going to vote joqiza
2. votato: I think Maduisha might be on to something, so I'm going to vote joqiza (?? LOL??)
3. Ydrasse: Maduisha and votato bring up good points, so I'm going to vote joqiza
votato why are you simply voting me without acknowledging that most of Maduisha's read is predicated on you being scum with me? And Ydrasse why did you simply sheep them without pointing out this contradiction?
In post 2212, joqiza wrote:This is more out of frustration than actual read but VOTE: votato until I get an explanation for the way he's played today
In post 2218, joqiza wrote:Maduisha: highly sus
Ydrasse: highly sus
votato: highly sus
Apogee: light TR
DkKoba: TR
enomis: don't have a read
I can't evaluate you/Ydrasse/Maduisha rn clearly, obviously at least one of you is town and I'd prefer to just talk things out w everyone so I can understand what is going on. Not all the arguments levelled at me rn are in good faith of that I'm certain
[/quote]
Doing a little reread of Joqiza interactions. No firm conclusion yet expect one of these for enomis and maybe Dk (but Dk/Joqiza was a lot more straightforward i.e. townreads most of the time)
Hey guys, sorry, for being mia. Wanted to post yesterday but work was really busy. Will only have time for this on the weekend or tonight. But notice the deadline is close.
Don't really have anytime to read the thread but let's lynch dkkoba. Or if you guys would all be available at 10pm(GMT +8) tonight for us to all be here and chime in, I am glad to interact and read the thread.
"you must prove more patient than a caterpillar, more willing to survive than a cockroach, and more stubborn than a leech - or you will definitely fail" - Counselor Rodriguez, the Star of Wisdom
Homertve: "Oh, and by the way, your tail is on fire."
In post 2987, enomis wrote:Hey guys, sorry, for being mia. Wanted to post yesterday but work was really busy. Will only have time for this on the weekend or tonight. But notice the deadline is close.
Don't really have anytime to read the thread but let's lynch dkkoba. Or if you guys would all be available at 10pm(GMT +8) tonight for us to all be here and chime in, I am glad to interact and read the thread.
story of your contribution this whole game.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
I had a massive headache and napped after work so i'm here now. I have said my piece. Done my reading. and made my conclusions.
I will only respond and talk with others about anything at this point unless prompted by something to do more rereading. But overall I'm pretty confident in my solve based on the evidence I have found.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
In post 373, joqiza wrote:Alright let's do this, I went through the whole thread again, starting from the top, and I have some thoughts on everyone, here are the notes I've taken. I'll be around for a while on-and off today so please AMA.
Votato
Probably town but still sus in that they constantly start wagons and back off them before any real pressure is applied, their “reaction tests” lack any sort of conviction and any conclusion from them is reached far too easily. Push on Koba was OK but jsyk I think you need way more than that to determine Koba’s alignment. Randomly threw out an apogee/maduisha scumteam without bothering to rr and then immediately caved saying he picked randomly and “gotta generate that content.” By the way, I think it’s funny that as soon as I point out that there’s not enough content for me suddenly there’s like three people grandstanding about getting content, I don’t think that’s even necessarily scum indicative I just hate it lmao. I don’t think votato and midwaybear are a scum team based on their interactions. Voted me with absolutely zero conviction and then immediately unvoted me before I had even responded with anything. Probably still town but the “need to appear active” without contributing to a gamesolve is a red flag. Currently on the maduisha wagon I was waiting to see if they would jump off again but honestly at this point it’s just a behavior pattern and I don’t know how to read into it any further. Light townread
The three lynches I have really considered today are Maduisha/Apogee/enomis, and of those three my strong preference is enomis. This is not a reaction test nor a “push for content,” as of rn my intent is to have enomis in the graveyard unless he comes back and truly drops thunder and makes me re-evaluate. I have learned to keep an open mind about these things but rn the urge to death tunnel within me.
To give some space for discussion/re-evaluation, @enomis, what I would want is a read list, and who you would want lynched if it were not you, and why.
If there is a 4th player I would throw into my above lynchlist, it would be votato, simply because he seems more capable as a player and there are certain red flags which I’ve noticed. That said, if he is scum he is playing fairly well IMO and he was the first person outside of Koba to actually take initiative and try to evaluate my slot, even if the attempt was surface-level, in my personal experience this has been strongly strongly town-indicative.
The rest of the players at the table I don’t really want lynched today for reasons I’m already talked about. To be honest, as of rn I am evaluating every single one of my TRs, but I think this is an inter-day thing, I want enomis lynched and if I am alive on Day 2 then I come back and re-think everything based on the information from his flip.
It’s about 2am my time and I have work tomorrow so I’m probably not going to respond to any questions for awhile, but I should be around a bit for my lunch break and tomorrow evening.
VOTE: Enomis
Spoiler: Stage2
In post 1138, joqiza wrote:also I want to know if it's worth my time to try to go into the midway vs. votato thing or if we've moved past that cuz I don't really sr either of them but i don't want to probe into the actual arguments unless i have to because they're dense @midwaybear @votato
In post 1218, Maduisha wrote:Also, Joqiza has showed up in the thread again, so I want to ask him why did he vote nobody after clearing Apogee several pages ago while claiming to scumread people other than Apogee. Especially considering I was an option by the time.
I'm still very frustrated about that, this is scummy and nobody else seems to care.
Not entirely sure what you're talking about tbh, I've only voted 2 people this game, Apogee and enomis, in both cases to start a wagon on them. There was a period of time where I unvoted Apogee and wasn't voting anyone cuz I was thinking through Apogee's response, I wasn't even thinking about starting a wagon on anyone at that point until I'd thought things through. I don't really understand what the obsession here is with having a vote on a player at all times, I don't find it productive at all, I'm not trying to use my vote to signal my level of scumread i'm trying to use it as a weapon to get someone lynched
I am saying that you voted Apogee, argued with him and ended up unvoting, but before voting Apogee you said you scumread me. You vote Apogee in 376, when my wagon (on your so claimed second scumread!!) already existed from Ydrasse's vote in parked on me in 284 and Votato's vote in 337. When you unvote Apogee in 393, my wagon is still fresh with 2 votes and it even gets more traction with 427 which is Midway's vote.
Your second preferred lynch slot is getting a thick wagon and you decide not to interact? I'm not saying you have to have a vote on someone at all times, but please tell me how do you scumread me for basically all of D1 and then have no interest in pushing me when others agree that I'm scummy. Especially after you've been satisfied by Apogee's response. Honestly, if Votato weren't a liar and an emotional manipulator, I would want your head before his because you are making no sense here and you are deflecting by calling it an obsession. I call it coherence.
i'm just going to respond to this because this is a really weird post, like first of all i don't even recall perfectly but why would the exact mechanical placement of my vote matter. like it feels like you think that at all times i have to be placing my vote on the person i SR the most, and you're trying to catch me in some kind of inconsistency there. i've already explained i think but i just voted apogee because no one was voting him and i wanted him to take my push seriously so i could get a better feel for his slot, then i voted enomis later because i wanted him lynched. i get you guys are super anal about voting but i just wasnt putting that much thought into it. also i dont understand your thought process here, like if i am scum to your town why would i not want to place a vote on your THICC wagon lol. honestly i don't think it's even good that you were run up to L-1 because you softclaimed villager so if ur town u just narrowed down PRs for mafia but no one seems to understand this point.
anyway, why would you think that me not voting you there would be alignment indicative, like what was going through your head that started with "he didn't vote me" and ended with "therefore he is mafia," i want to understand
In post 1214, joqiza wrote:
I agree that there is some questionable behavior in the ISO. 1) justifying reads through "VC analysis" -- this is very easily an excuse not to analyze people's behavior. 2) general refusal to provide clarification for reads or follow up on logic, 3) some evidence of flip-flopping on people such as enomis, or at least an inability to express a coherent read
@Quick
Flip-flopping isn't Scummy, it's actually Townie for a game like this.
And I said I would do more work if I make it to D2.
But if these are your reasons, okay, I guess.
Besides, you don't believe MY cases for some God awful reason. Probably because I haven't made a 1,000 word case on someone or because I am not pushing the same people over and over excessively.
I do TR effort yeah.
I think flip-flopping is sometimes NAI but i would not agree it is townie.
i gave you 24hr so you have time to make a 1000 word case too. But I don't need 1000 words. Im still open to a counterwagon
Effort is most NAI, but sometimes it is.
I gave my case within like the first 15 posts or something. Or I just suck at this game and I deserve to be lynched.
Why is votato Town?
I would prefer a wall post, maybe a mini wall post, with posts cited. that is my fetish
votato was townlean in beginning of the game and i stopped reading him and bear. i will read now. but he has been very patient imo.
i will obviously share my conclusions and discuss before i actually hammer
In post 815, votato wrote:4. im not interested in convincing you. you've decided to tunnel me. thats fine, i dont need to convince you since youre gonna just confirmation bias everything i say. i just need to convince 6 townies. or really just 4 townies.
here u r referring to midwaybear and saying that bear is "conf biasing" you which implies he is town, but u say you "just need to convince 6 townies" like if bear is 1 townie and there are 6 other townies that's 7 townies and that only leaves you as scum ???
In post 2066, joqiza wrote:eh i'm gonna wait for votato to respond to what i asked before i go into things too deeply
why do you want me to hammer before he even has the chance to respond?
In post 2121, joqiza wrote:Alright I kind of came into this thinking that quick vs votato might be TvT but I kind of FOS quick after this, like I'm just floored by how quickly he jumped onto the "scumslips" and how he basically wanted votato lynched before he could respond. I feel like anyone with any decent amount of experience should know that these sort of statements aren't really alignment indicative, both town and mafia do this kind of weird shit you see genuine certified scumslips very very rarely. and in fact it's funny because if you look in his iso one of the first posts he makes is this, so yah, he is aware.
In post 753, Quick wrote:I have only read about 8% of the game or less fwiw.
how can we take you seriously then? did you see a scumslip or something?
I pretty much never see Scum slips. I am pretty biased against them actually.
In post 2140, joqiza wrote:anyway fellas i'm basically gonna hammer quick here in a bit i think my mind's pretty made up at this point. i went thru votato and I think he has some decent contributions today. I really like the push on maduisha starting 337, continuing in 478 and 487, kind of ending with 540 and 587. this push is a lot better and more thorough i feel like then what he was doing previously. now to be fair he did do this AFTER i pointed out why his earlier pushes were kind of weak, so he might've just adapted this game, but in any case he's certainly done more for us than quick has done. i feel like his responses to bear's case in 803 and 804 are decent too btw
In post 2179, Maduisha wrote:Alright, going to make the proposal of pressuring Joqiza together today to squeeze tells from him because nobody wanted to hear me out D1 and people don't seem to like the idea of lynching his partner Votato. Joqiza has done scummy shit that I already pointed out before over and over, and he got away with it for free because people were not feeling comfortable from jumping out of the Quick wagon and I think that was a big mistake, so let's get the ball rolling.
VOTE: Joqiza
Furthermore, his fake "consideration" to choose who he was voting was staged and clearly fake. He saw me accusing Votato of being fake with his petition for time and tried to patch it and make it look legit by faking an ISO read. I think it's clear why he hammered Quick regardless of his towntells: he did not want to bus his partner D1 because that's death sentence, but tried to play slightly indecisive so people would think he actually considered it and buy their bullshit distancing.
Imagine thinking that votato and I are a scumteam and I left my partner on L-1 for 24 HOURS. ON DAY 1 LOL I couldve hammered quick at any time and been done with it but I wanted to give him a chance. Somehow despite posting 366 times he didn't even read the game, i don't regret it and i made the optimal decision with the information i had to work with. quick/votato probably TvT anyway II'm guessing I didn't even have a shot at a correct hammer. maybe should have led a counterwagon but i wasn't liking quick's posts at EoD
In post 2183, votato wrote:so i think at this point that there is probably scum in joqiza and maduisha. Leaning towards it being joq. This kill is interesting. It's such a bad kill that it tells me that it was probably not SEs doing the kill. Midway was not the towniest player and certainly wasn't contributing. I don't want to get into wifom, but i think this kill actually clears me. There's no world in which liking midway helps scum!me. Yes he was tunnelling me. But he didn't have a case and no one was listening to him. I had no reason to kill him and the kill implicates me. Actually i think maduisha is on to something here. VOTE: joqiza
This is probably one of the worst posts I've seen since I started playing forum mafia so I want to break it down for you line by line.
“so i think at this point that there is probably scum in joqiza and maduisha” – what is the justification for this analysis? Why is there a scum in the two of us and it can’t be TvT? I’m not even saying I disagree with you but you don’t get to throw out this kind of stuff without any justification
“Leaning towards it being joq” how did you go from being willing to counterwagon maduisha with me to leaning towards it being me? This is a complete 180
“It's such a bad kill that it tells me that it was probably not SEs doing the kill.” and so your conclusion is it was me? Lmao don’t think I missed the missing logical step here which is that “yeah and joq is shit”
“Midway was not the towniest player and certainly wasn't contributing” sure
“. I don't want to get into wifom, but i think this kill actually clears me. There's no world in which liking midway helps scum!me.” LMFAO. For the record, the kill should neither kill nor implicate you, it could come from you as scum trying to remove a threat, it could come from scum outside of you trying to frame you, and any evaluation of your slot should use the nightkill as secondary information to your overall body of work this game. Anyone who tries to pivot off the nightkill to justify a position is on my radar rn. Ur making me wish I hammered you
“Yes he was tunnelling me. But he didn't have a case and no one was listening to him.” You had four votes on you yesterday
“I had no reason to kill him and the kill implicates me.” See above
“Actually i think maduisha is on to something here.” you better have a good explanation for this complete 180 on maduisha because last I checked we were on the same page. She is accusing us of being a scumteam btw did you happen to miss that LOL
In post 2203, joqiza wrote:Seriously does no one find this progression of events sus:
1. Maduisha: I think votato and joqiza are a team, so I'm going to vote joqiza
2. votato: I think Maduisha might be on to something, so I'm going to vote joqiza (?? LOL??)
3. Ydrasse: Maduisha and votato bring up good points, so I'm going to vote joqiza
votato why are you simply voting me without acknowledging that most of Maduisha's read is predicated on you being scum with me? And Ydrasse why did you simply sheep them without pointing out this contradiction?
In post 2212, joqiza wrote:This is more out of frustration than actual read but VOTE: votato until I get an explanation for the way he's played today
In post 2218, joqiza wrote:Maduisha: highly sus
Ydrasse: highly sus
votato: highly sus
Apogee: light TR
DkKoba: TR
enomis: don't have a read
I can't evaluate you/Ydrasse/Maduisha rn clearly, obviously at least one of you is town and I'd prefer to just talk things out w everyone so I can understand what is going on. Not all the arguments levelled at me rn are in good faith of that I'm certain
Doing a little reread of Joqiza interactions. No firm conclusion yet expect one of these for enomis and maybe Dk (but Dk/Joqiza was a lot more straightforward i.e. townreads most of the time)
i feel like a broken record but I have explained why I was townreading joqiza on d2.
d1 I was mildly suspicious.
Last edited by Datisi on Thu May 28, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
oh god i broke the quote... mod pls fix i didntm ean to make tiny text...
Fixed. -D
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
In post 2978, votato wrote:also dk needs to die because he is making it harder to game solve
What I'm saying is that when you reply to Apogee about Enomis and you end up talking about him, you seem to have actual suspicions about Apogee and here you are expressing a want to lynch DK for "obstruction to game solve" and that approach doesn't make sense to me. Like, you're advocating to lynch someone you suspect less out of the two unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I think the balance of evidence still points to dk or i wouldn't be voting there. Plus I'm very concerned that we will simply lose if dk is alive tomorrow. We can't afford to have people who are tunneled. If we lynch dk and he flips town we can figure it out tomorrow
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
Ok just because of timezones and when I sleep if I continue holding the hammer I will be hammering probably in the next 12 hours. Wagon's if you have cases on the other its time to resoldify them.
I'm inclined to a votato lynch because a) it resolves DkKoba/Votato endgame, but more importantly b) I really really do not like the Joqiza progression on votato I quoted above. Even on D2 the bussing that would have happened feels like it was all bus to me.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
enomis is avoiding actual discussion bc they want us to go after eachother. And im sorry but if votato wants to hardtunnel me he has to go bc he is not condusive to winning this game.
Votato ur hardtunneled on me out of fear and it shows. Town or mafia fear? Can't tell 100%. But youre afraid.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
if youre town then its clear youre tunneled onto me out of pride.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
"you must prove more patient than a caterpillar, more willing to survive than a cockroach, and more stubborn than a leech - or you will definitely fail" - Counselor Rodriguez, the Star of Wisdom
Homertve: "Oh, and by the way, your tail is on fire."
