Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Green Crayons]

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance.

Forcing...? I came up with the whole idea!

It's not that town wouldn't say this, but it's definitely exactly what scum would say. Vindicating statements of fact are scum's favorite.

I don't like this theory, as it's completely NAI in this circumstance.

[Kmd4390]

Do you have any specific terms in mind? I can't recall any which are too recent.
Also, mafia specific, right?

No, I know abbreviations (I'm actually listed in the official MS one on the Wiki). I'm talking like game specific terms like I know sheeping and pocketing, but wolfing/open wolfing is kinda new to me. I know there's another new term or two that I've seen that I'm not sure of.

I also don't like farside and Starbuck pushing the "I'm cute" thing.

My one post about it is pushing? That's a stretch and a weird one at that. In any case, I was just stating a fact.

Spoiler: Because I am

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1R8IKkh8hC ... _copy_link

When you called yourself adorable you don't think that could be taken as wanting to be in the cute alliance? What was the purpose in that post then? Just completely random?

I'm pretty sure that was a tongue in cheek comment in regards to how old many of the players in the game are. I didn't take it as a newb comment. Why would you think he could get away from doing that when a players date is available to see?

Exactly. It seemed like a weird thing to open with when it was going to be obvious anyway. Like I said, I don't see any advantage to be gained from it so it was probably just an elephant in the room kind of comment.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Spoiler: Revelation

Kmd is a jailkeeper.

[Kmd4390]

In real life yes but as far as the game goes please keep those comments to yourself.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Morning Tweet

[Starbuck]

When you called yourself adorable you don't think that could be taken as wanting to be in the cute alliance? What was the purpose in that post then? Just completely random?

I mean, I couldn't care either way. Everyone's version of cute/hot/attractive is different. If it were up to me, the whole player list would be in the cute alliance because we're all so gosh darn adorable. In any case, I think you took a flippant comment and made it serious for no real reason.

[Kmd4390]

But I even gave you my reason

[Porkens]

The best scum find perfectly logical reasons to lynch town.

Indeed they can cleverly craft seemingly legitimate and logical reasons, but the conclusions are still inaccurate. there's bigger subtleties when this happens, for example their ignoring certain parts that, as town, they wouldn't, etc.

What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.

Logic is NAI.

[farside22]

A vindicating statement of fact is both safe and makes them look more town.
So mafia is always going to make that post. Town are going to say something like that too, but it's more likely to branch and have other pieces too than the scum version.

I'm going to say hard no to this. It's pretty NAI, like if a player says nothing they look scummy, if they do they are scummy? On a personal level I feel a player ignoring me tends to come from scum with something to hide.

Do you have any specific terms in mind? I can't recall any which are too recent.
Also, mafia specific, right?

No, I know abbreviations (I'm actually listed in the official MS one on the Wiki). I'm talking like game specific terms like I know sheeping and pocketing, but wolfing/open wolfing is kinda new to me. I know there's another new term or two that I've seen that I'm not sure of.

I also don't like farside and Starbuck pushing the "I'm cute" thing.

My one post about it is pushing? That's a stretch and a weird one at that. In any case, I was just stating a fact.

Spoiler: Because I am

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1R8IKkh8hC ... _copy_link

When you called yourself adorable you don't think that could be taken as wanting to be in the cute alliance? What was the purpose in that post then? Just completely random?

I'm pretty sure that was a tongue in cheek comment in regards to how old many of the players in the game are. I didn't take it as a newb comment. Why would you think he could get away from doing that when a players date is available to see?

Exactly. It seemed like a weird thing to open with when it was going to be obvious anyway. Like I said, I don't see any advantage to be gained from it so it was probably just an elephant in the room kind of comment.

Gotta say this is very reachy.

[Kmd4390]

Its page 6. Of course it's reachy.

[Starbuck]

But I even gave you my reason

Could I not just want to be confident in myself and share my cuteness, too? Or is that a crime? Like I don't get your angle, dude.

[Kmd4390]

Would be a weird coincidence after everyone talks about a cute alliance. That fact that you seem to feel so attacked over it is giving me worse vibes than the original comment did... And the way you're trying to make it seem unrelated to the alliance.

[Starbuck]

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Auro]

What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.

You misunderstood what I said.
I didn't say poor logic. I didn't say unsound logic. I said inaccurate logic, in that the conclusions are inaccurate. It's not a theory - it's a fact.

To make a very crude example, a player makes 5 scummy posts and 3 towny posts. It's not unsound to make a case based on the 5 posts. However, the reality of this can be that this player was town, and the

accurate

read a competent town player would have gotten in this scenario would be to correctly weigh those posts accordingly; versus a scum player in the same position who'd instead build that sound-looking case.

Town people naturally tend to project that they're town in high content scenarios.

Besides, because the best scum players can feign legitimacy very well doesn't mean that reading people based on bad logic is an unreliable metric. My experience suggests that this is difficult to fake especially as you get into more "holistic territory" like in my example above, and I've managed to catch competent scum this way.

I don't think I've expressed my thoughts on this very well, but can talk about it in post-game anyway

[Auro]

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think kmd420 is the type to take everything literally and at face value, and interpret motivations as such.

[Auro]

I'm happy this game isn't moving at a rapid pace (although I'm classically a hyperposter myself), easier to keep track of things this way

[Auro]

farside, I didn't answer your question: did that not bother you?

[Kmd4390]

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

You told me I made your comment serious after I pointed it out and then you asked me if it was a crime. If im wrong, im wrong, but that made it seem like you felt attacked.

kmd420

Ugh.

[Porkens]

But I even gave you my reason

Could I not just want to be confident in myself and share my cuteness, too? Or is that a crime? Like I don't get your angle, dude.

This pings me as too worried about something pretty silly. Do you really feel unfairly judged by the cutemob speculation game?

[Morning Tweet]

ABR's ISO reads like statement of fact -> alliance a buddy -> highly impersonal accusation. Scum like doing all of these things.
Statements of fact feel safe and impersonal accusations feel safe and scum want to feel safe.
Alliancing / early accusations are common motions; scum usually go through common motions rather than exploring.

Scum have trouble evenly mixing interactions with other scum to interactions with town.
Players chatted up or voted by scum at dawn on the first day are therefore more likely to be scum than anyone else.
This applies to Baltar who also has an awkward are-you-scum-welcome, MT with content-free cutification and Agar who did 'vote -> briefly talk to buddy about nothing -> leave for a while.'
I don't like MT's reaction to being caught either.

Auro showed up with a purely distracting composed statement of 'fact' as well, then stuck to it instead of doing anything useful.
Will review a couple of their other games at some point to see if they are a refuge-type.

caught?! Caught doing what? (・・；) the cute police are already onto us..

I rolled my eyes because i interpreted you as being less than fully serious. I think I disagree most with your read of Auro -- i don't think he'd be any more likely to mess around as scum, it could even be the other way around for all I know where he'd try harder to look good as scum. at the very least it's wrong to scumpool him for it

i can follow your thought process in the first paragraph, but scumblocing every player in the game who has a non content-filled post might not be the most accurate conclusion. I usually throw out a huge chunk of RVS actually cause i've observed both town and scum trying to force reads early, and both town and scum just playing around early.

[Porkens]

What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.

You misunderstood what I said.
I didn't say poor logic. I didn't say unsound logic. I said inaccurate logic, in that the conclusions are inaccurate. It's not a theory - it's a fact.

To make a very crude example, a player makes 5 scummy posts and 3 towny posts. It's not unsound to make a case based on the 5 posts. However, the reality of this can be that this player was town, and the

accurate

read a competent town player would have gotten in this scenario would be to correctly weigh those posts accordingly; versus a scum player in the same position who'd instead build that sound-looking case.

Town people naturally tend to project that they're town in high content scenarios.

Besides, because the best scum players can feign legitimacy very well doesn't mean that reading people based on bad logic is an unreliable metric. My experience suggests that this is difficult to fake especially as you get into more "holistic territory" like in my example above, and I've managed to catch competent scum this way.

I don't think I've expressed my thoughts on this very well, but can talk about it in post-game anyway

No, I haven’t misunderstood. You have failed to articulate.

The basis on which I get you lynched are the same regardless of alignment (mine or yours). Those reasons are “accurate” despite how you flip. You were scummy, thus you swang.

[Porkens]

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think kmd420 is the type to take everything literally and at face value, and interpret motivations as such.

This is minimizing.

[Morning Tweet]

Alliancing

/ early accusations are common motions; scum usually go through common motions rather than exploring.

Hoopla I'll unvote u if u form an alliance with me

Morning Tweet and I have formed an alliance, Albert and Morning Tweet have formed a separate alliance, trilateral negotiations underway to consolidate our two empires

So, Mr Llama, why is CantLynchAPuppy not interesting enough for a mention?

Auro showed up with a purely distracting composed statement of 'fact' as well, then stuck to it instead of doing anything useful.
Will review a couple of their other games at some point to see if they are a refuge-type.

It was a

reaction test

... I swear!!

The CLAP posts are more natural.
Once upon a time that might have been townish, but people learned to fake insufferable long ago, and are particularly likely to at the beginning.

I am iffy on the rules around role-PM discussions but 'town for bothering to go there' seems about right. There are alternative explanations but they're worse.

wh-what?! You didn't include Puppy in your massive scumpool because he's more

natural

?! Did you have that in your head all along or did you just come up with that as justifcation? (¬ω¬) i was expecting you to say you forgot him or something

i agree with the pork role PM stuff and im not gonna touch it despite it being the most AI thing so far prolly

[Morning Tweet]

Why does being unfair and inaccurate make me scum?
MT treats achieving cuteness as a mission.
CLAP is more random.

Why is being more random more town indictative (or less scum indictative)?

My best guess is that you're saying that scum takes a more deliberate approach to faking interactions-- I'm trying to sell a "I'm more interested in being cute than playing" angle, ABR is trying to start game of thrones, Auro, well, I still don't really get what the issue with Auro was. is this a good interpretation of what you're saying or am i totally off

[Llamarble]

Town
Llama
Farside
Porkens
Starbuck

Green Crayons
Blair
Hoopla
CLAP
Reck
UT
iau
MT
Baltar

Agar
Auro
KMD
ABR

The idea is scum feel a need to do something, and being cute is something to do, like a mission. CLAP's version seemed less goal-oriented.