Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

He only gets a free pass for day 1.

He shouldn't get a pass for day 1 either. VP Balter is an amazing bandwagon.

Remember how bad your reads were in all of our recent games.

Listen to me and vote VP Baltar.

[farside22]

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

This is moderately scummy.

VOTE: VP Baltar

ABR: Can you explain why you found this scummy?

[farside22]

He only gets a free pass for day 1.

He shouldn't get a pass for day 1 either. VP Balter is an amazing bandwagon.

Remember how bad your reads were in all of our recent games.

Listen to me and vote VP Baltar.

You know I'm the worst when it comes to joining a wagon without a really good reason or I scum read the player.
I'll be a sport and check his Iso next though.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I appeal to the authority of my own self on this one. It's scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't explain anything day 1 or else scum will know what to do and say in order for me not to scumread them. It will change the site meta.

[farside22]

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

[xRECKONERx]

I have a lot of respect for Reck as a scumhunter and as a scum, so my default guess is Reck catches UT, UT might miss Reck.

that respect has been misplaced for about 5-6 years bud

the days of 2011 "solve the game on page 5" reck have long since been dead and buried

people have tried to get me mislynched for that before

[Albert B. Rampage]

its ok reck ill hard carry

[VP Baltar]

Daddy's home from work everyone.

Looks like the scum goofed and tried to start a wagon on me while I was away. This should be good.

[xRECKONERx]

abr i dont think u have earned that ego tbh

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have always been a better player than you at your prime, don't be jealous

[Llamarble]

Agar and Blair are kinda sketchy in the moderately pro-town scum lane. I don't really see either of them as the D1, but Blair is in an interesting place so I guess we'll see.

[xRECKONERx]

I have always been a better player than you at your prime, don't be jealous

[Hoopla]

a post in which hoopla adds two more townreads to the bucket; reck and agar.

initially, i was slightly scumreading reck in the same way llamarble was. i have a good chunk of town-reads, so from a PoE perspective reck fits the profile of good-scum-player metrics i keep an eye on. but this post sold me;

i suppose being coy adds nothing. i received a piece of game information in my role PM. i was also told that the mafia were aware that i know a piece of information about the game. i assume that will put a target on my head.

seems like a rather creative softclaim to concoct as scum. much more likely that unprompted claims like come from town, as they have a genuine reason to do so, unlike scum who have to think up an angle that will make a softclaim tease make sense from a town-perspective once more info comes into the game.

~~

contrary to llamarble's insistence that agar's timeline clarifying is goodposting, but not overtly town - this is in fact the correct take:

in other news, AGar has now thoroughly ingratiated himself into my town reads - can't imagine this post coming from scum - there are clear benefits for scum to not alerting everyone to the source of the misunderstanding, pretty much regardless of Blair/Starbuck alignments.

i agree with iamausername. the desire to get down & dirty in the weeds of the blair/starbuck back-and-forth to quell a potential multipage shitfight of confusion is in fact town. i could barely be bothered to read it all and form an opinion on it, so the fact he was willing to make heads or tails of it in first place is a valuable contribution, probably powered by town curiosity.

[Llamarble]

Well it's powered by the fact that he initially read the exchange the same way Starbuck did, he didn't have to go far out of his way to figure out what was going on, but I do appreciate the effort at constructing a good post to clarify it for everyone.
But yes, it is a good post, there's nothing wrong with Agar - I see him in a pro town without that extra essence of towniness that I would want for a strong townread.

[xRECKONERx]

hoopla do you have scumreads instead of just townreads

[Hoopla]

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

you've been on my case most of the game - even listing me in your top 3 scumpicks in 360. all of a sudden i am no longer on your radar without any reason why your suspicion has subsided. why?

you also made these comments about the VPB wagon and its constituents in post 596:

Some of the votes on VP come from players I haven't seen say much in regards to this game and are sheeping along (like Iam and UT). I'm staying the hell away from it.
I will say within regards to UT if he continues the lurking I would vote for him. He only gets a free pass for day 1.

then in post 605, essentially changed your mind;

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

that was a rather sharp turnabout. can you explain your mindset in further detail given you didn't like the make-up of the wagon to begin with?

also, is your lack of suspicion on me now related to this?

[Llamarble]

Well it's powered by the fact that he initially read the exchange the same way Starbuck did, he didn't have to go far out of his way to figure out what was going on, but I do appreciate the effort at constructing a good post to clarify it for everyone.
But yes, it is a good post, there's nothing wrong with Agar - I see him in a pro town without that extra essence of towniness that I would want for a strong townread.

(And the reason that makes him a little sketchy is that I know he likes to play scum and believe he is good enough as scum to produce what he has produced here and most other players have begun to accumulate little moments of towniness although there's also a lack of OBVTOWN players)

[Hoopla]

hoopla do you have scumreads instead of just townreads

i have a handful of scum leanings, but generally speaking i find it easier to townhunt on d1, and will usually be willing to lynch anyone not a townread.

i'm working on organising my thoughts more today, as i do have a read one way or another on more than half the game.

[Llamarble]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum. So he and Auro may survive the wilting of my previous scumteam.
To be joined by... I don't really know. Blair maybe? But two is enough for now I guess.

[Hoopla]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum.

can you explain? my read on her has flipped and she's currently in my townbucket.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I think the most useful approach here is probably looking at the folks on this wagon and their reasoning, because there has to be some artificial inflation here in this group (aka, the bad ones, aka, those whose names shall not be spoken, aka SCUM).

First, ABR:

Spoiler:

He votes me here:

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

This is moderately scummy.

VOTE: VP Baltar

Votes me in a classically ABR way, so not really alignment indicative of anything. Unclear whether the "this" in that sentence refers to making a sarcastic remark about llama's inane full solve posts or me nudging Reck and Puppy on their inactivity and seeing how they reacted. Neither is a good reason for voting, but eh.

What I do think is important about the ABR vote is that it comes right after I point out he has a useless vote camped on Blair.

I dont even start reading the game until page 25 these days.

Explain to me what's going on and I'll give you my opinion on it.

town heroine hoopla dazzled onlookers with a stunning moment of divine intuition, powering the wagon on GC-scum.

in response, shady antihero blair rustled up an uninspired counterwagon on lurking easy-target iamausername. her motivations? god knows.

You didn't explain anything and I still need to be explained gc and iamuser if you want my vote

You're on a wagon with MT. Is that a better explanation?

Back in the day when I played with ABR, we didn't really have a name for his style. Nowadays, I would probably call it Trumping. He's eager to attack before being attacked. And then it's just a matter of repeating the idea enough that people begin to believe it. I'm not sure if this really says a lot about his alignment at this point because it's a useful psychological strategy from either approach. He goes on to encourage a wagon race between me and Auro...which again could be a valuable strategy from either alignment. Forcing people to take sides in a run off can sort scum. But it's also a strategy I've used as scum very frequently when I'm happy with the targets and I think it will generate a mislynch or some type of useful claim. You don't get dirty by trying to explain yourself, while still being able to nudge the day where you want it to go.

Overall, don't have strong feelings about ABR's vote and pressure either way.

I'm going to skip over IIAU for now. He was technically second on my wagon, then hopped off and seems to have hopped back on. I'll address him based on his current wagon position.

Next vote on me is Hoopla:

Spoiler:

doot -de-do

VOTE: VP Baltar

That's it! Don't really have anything to say about it. That's her only mention of me all game. Generally I've been reading Hoops as town, so I kind of just assume this was a "let's see where this goes" kind of vote.

Now is when things start to get more interesting. Auro's vote and then quick abandonment is a HUGE scumtell. I was a mildly up and coming wagon and he saw that as he was facing pressure. His reason for voting me was "gut" townread on Green Crayons, whose wagon happened to be waning. I took time to give him an opportunity to explain something I was missing there, but clearly my initial twinge was right, hence the vote. That much should have been quite obvious to anyone mildly looking at that interaction (an important point later when we get to the squad saying 'VPB hasn't done anything town yet this game!' ~ which is completely "give me a break" territory given the folks saying it.)

Which brings us to IIAU:

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Auro
VOTE: VP Baltar

lost my taste for the Auro wagon right around this post.

in other news, AGar has now thoroughly ingratiated himself into my town reads - can't imagine this post coming from scum - there are clear benefits for scum to not alerting everyone to the source of the misunderstanding, pretty much regardless of Blair/Starbuck alignments.

His reason for voting me....is that I voted Auro! Yikes, ok. Keep in mind, he deduced this by looking at his own wagon, shrugging heavily because he had done nothing in the game and saying I must be the scum. Quoting here for reference:

this is fair. i have really not got in the game yet, and my Hoopla vote was a pretty crappy vote. i had yet to find anything notably scummy to latch on to at that point, people started voting Hoopla, who i had yet to find notably town, so i joined in and pushed at a seeming contradiction that i expected Hoopla to have a perfectly valid explanation for, which she did.

Blair's insistence on browbeating people into voting me over Green Crayons feels fairly town. i have no idea why people are voting GC, so pushing something other than that seems correct. the way farside and KMD joined the wagon also seems reasonable. if scum have jumped onto me, and i expect there's a good chance that one would have done by now, VP Baltar is the most likely candidate.

so i guess
UNVOTE: Hoopla
VOTE: VP Baltar

people that feel townish:
2) Albert B. Rampage
4) Blair
6) farside22
7) Green Crayons
8) Hoopla
10) Kmd4390
11) Llamarble
12) Morning Tweet
13) Porkens
14) Starbuck

people who have yet to feel townish:
1) AGar
3) Auro
5) CantLynchAPuppy
15) Untrod Tripod
16) VP Baltar
17) xRECKONERx

there's only two spots left in the town bunker, better step up your game, folks

Keep in mind, there were four people voting him at the time. This is weak sauce reasoning and makes no sense as basis for a vote, let alone to come in later and say an Auro wagon is a bad wagon because I voted on it. What I see here is incredibly lazy scum hunting. And a scum pool referenced above that's just broad enough to end in a mislynch without much trouble D1.

Needless to say an IIAU-Auro scum pairing is something Llama and I can agree on.

Next up is UT:

Here is the reasoning for the vote (actual vote is in a follow up post that doesn't say much)

Spoiler:

Regarding VP, I think his post history is really wallflower-y. A little commenting, a little asking directionless questions, and a whole lot of not really taking a stance on anything. I like this slot for scum.

Which stinks, honestly. Perhaps I could squint and see where this is coming from. I've intentionally not been pushing super hard today, mostly because I think there are a lot of strong personalities in this game -- and that's already led to a absurdly bloated page count. (Some players have spent pages debating the Blair/Starbuck fight when it is pretty clear they could both be town overreacting in that scenario.) So my approach has been a little more lay back in the cut and pounce when I see things worth pushing. That'd be a fair assessment.

HOWEVER, I have actually done things to move this game in the right direction when the moment has called for it. Now, compare that to UT, whose previous post to the above attack on me was this:

I'm having a hard time finding anything to focus on in this game. Can someone offer me some direction in terms of post to read that are especially scummy (inb4 this post). I want to contribute but every time I start reading my eyes cross and I lose consciousness. I just don't even really know where to start

To call me a wallflower is little more than a ginned up reason to join my wagon when I would argue that people who have also been more laid back in this game include:

Reckoner
Starbuck
kmd
Puppy
Blair
IIAU
oh, and UT

Much like IIAU, this is absurd reasoning to join an easy wagon that's not seeing any resistance. I don't read UT as likely scum as much as Auro or IIAU because him openly saying he's not focusing this game could come from a town place. Llama pointed him in my direction I believe, so again, could just be laziness on UT's part. But that mischaracterization certainly raised my hackles and I'd like to see UT put in more effort.

This is still a gem either way:

how in the fuck am I sheeping

Shit reasoning, sheeping...what's the difference?

Last, we have Farside:

Spoiler:

Her vote is here:

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

I literally said I was sheeping Blair, so that's a weak accusation. A few other people have mentioned it, so it is probably worth addressing. I just finished a game with Blair and Puppy immediately before this (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83054). In fact, I was the one who asked Vi to invite them to this game because they're great. I blatantly sheeped Blair there to gauge her reaction and try to get a better read on her. I think she's an outstanding town player from what I've seen, so getting a solid read there early in the game was important to me.

As I said above, my Auro vote was actually quite clear to anyone paying attention. And llama actually explicitly said the reasoning shortly thereafter.

Overall, I've been getting townvibes from Farside, so Im chalking this up as ABR influence.

[Llamarble]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum.

can you explain? my read on her has flipped and she's currently in my townbucket.

Uh, maybe not.
MT has been more active elsewhere on the site than here, but they're doing enough that it may not be worth worrying about. I should disengage for a while and come back more rested tomorrow like I was planning to.

[VP Baltar]

Other observations while I was rereading:

Didn't care for ABR and Auro fishing information off Reck.

@Blair - the Starbuck thing is over. AGar's breakdown of this is good. Trust me, most of the people in this game have played with Starbuck and she gets hyped as either alignment. That means nothing. Regarding the attack itself, seems like it could have been a mistake. I'd rather hear your thoughts on some other players than see this debate suck up all the oxygen in the room. You could start with Auro and IIAU.

[Morning Tweet]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum.

can you explain? my read on her has flipped and she's currently in my townbucket.

Uh, maybe not.
MT has been more active elsewhere on the site than here, but they're doing enough that it may not be worth worrying about. I should disengage for a while and come back more rested tomorrow like I was planning to.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh of course this gets brought up

this game in particular i struggle to make quick little posts like i usually do. Idk if it's the early 'pressure', not knowing anybody, not being able to get too many solid reads, or whatever. I'm way less excited than usual-- i was during RVS but yeah i dont have that anymore

I am on my PC now and i am planning on having a good look rn though. Why are you putting me as scum with Blair? Auro sure idk maybe I'm being too lenient towards him-- I do kinda think he's someone i'd rather read down the line but then again perhaps I'm just not trying hard enough there. I glossed over some of his posts cause they didn't seem particularly helpful for his alignment

pedit/ Probably one of the strongest things i've felt so far is that Blair feels like she's attacking Starbuck way too hard. It feels a tad fake. But also i don't exactly see why she tunnels that hard as scum, it's not making her look good imo