Newbie 2011 - Game Over

[Micc]

dsjstr replaces gobbledygook.

[Micc]

Votecount 2.09

GeneralWu (4) -

AGar, JamSV, Battle Mage, Freddiethelady

Freddiethelady (2) -

dsjstr, Apogee

JamSV (1) -

GeneralWu

Not Voting (0) -

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to Eliminate.

An Elimination has been achieved.

[Micc]

GeneralWu has been eliminated Day 2. He was a

Mafia Goon

.

It is now Night 2. The deadline for Night 2 is in (expired on 2020-07-03 21:10:00).

[Micc]

AGar has been killed Night 2. He was a

Town Mason

.

It is now Day 3.

Votecount 3.00

Not Voting (5) -

Apogee, JamSV, Freddiethelady, Battle Mage, dsjstr

With 5 players alive it takes 3 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2020-07-11 00:15:00).

[Apogee]

Let’s get it.

Game is probably straightforward

VOTE: Freddiethelady

Last minute attempt there with the hammer won’t buy you credit after you jumped on the first opportunity to form a GeneralWu counterwagon you could.

Be careful of Hammer of course

[JamSV]

I want to know Battle Mages opinion to be honest.

[Freddiethelady]

Let’s get it.

Game is probably straightforward

VOTE: Freddiethelady

Last minute attempt there with the hammer won’t buy you credit after you jumped on the first opportunity to form a GeneralWu counterwagon you could.

Be careful of Hammer of course

You are all of a sudden being active and definitive about something - cool! You haven’t engaged with me until I said something to you. Explain your read on me...minus all the fluff you tried to say yesterday in response to my suspicions of you. Additionally, you didn’t really provide counter evidence. I think you’ve been just active enough to not be Accused of lurking but havent contributed any substance or engaged in scum hunting, except when you were agreeinf with Agar.

Also, are you accusing me of jumping off a GWu counterwagon too fast? In other words, my last minute attempt to counterwagon you won’t give me credit (Or fuel for re-engaging a apogee wagon) when I left it to vote general? The problem is, i am leaning scum!apogee because of your baseless and opportunistic shading but you’ve barely said anything substantial this game that I can chew on except that I still say scum!apogee would want Votato dead because he was a threat to your cover. Agar was an obvious choice because he is one of the superior players. You and the general have been marginally active and helpful. Gobbles hasnt reappear for his proddodge today.

BM, I’m very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Agar NK and about Apogee’s vote on me.

[Apogee]

So I still haven’t caught up yet but somethings really bugging me about votato’s lynch. I’m probably incriminating myself a little by pointing this out but I don’t care. The lynch was so random And I need to work this out. First I want to point out the points behind my thought process... 1) he wasn’t really that active 2) not a lot of people were talking about him and 3) most people here know him. So why him? Why did scum NK him when there was seemingly little to gain from it? I looked back over his iOS and he voted two people: BM, sleeper, and Apogee. Votato must have been on to something. I needed to get that out there for Agar to help me work out...

@Freddie

What do you think of the fact that the wagon on you got to L-1 so easily? If you're town, who were the scumbags? If you're scum, am I right that GWu is your partner? Bussing your partner gets you townpoints, and makes my heart oh so warm.

TBH I don't know what to think. I forgot that the mod doesn't always keep the votes accurate and I wasn't counting. No one was really scum reading me enough before hand...is it possible there was a little panic? Either way, it went away as quickly as it started. as I can see now, its rebuilding due to my lack of posting. How would you read a quick build up like that?

So I still haven’t caught up yet but somethings really bugging me about votato’s lynch. I’m probably incriminating myself a little by pointing this out but I don’t care. The lynch was so random And I need to work this out. First I want to point out the points behind my thought process... 1) he wasn’t really that active 2) not a lot of people were talking about him and 3) most people here know him. So why him? Why did scum NK him when there was seemingly little to gain from it? I looked back over his iOS and he voted two people: BM, sleeper, and Apogee. Votato must have been on to something. I needed to get that out there for Agar to help me work out...

Yeah I'm not going to get into NK analysis and all the fucking shit that comes with that just to project a wagon onto someone else. #sorrynotsorry

Can you tell me why not? If everyone was surprised by the kill, then why don't we dive into it? is it a mafia nuance I haven't learned yet? He might have been on to something...I can't figure out why you're super uptight about that unless there is something you're hiding.

Alternatively, @BM help me out here...didn't you say that Agar claimed mason way too quickly in post 722? Have you thought anymore about that? Is that a move that would benefit scum if scum!agar pulled it off? it doesn't seem like anyone has had heat on him since he claimed mason. the reasoning for that would be based off a false premise. I acknowledge this might by one serious stretch but is it worth investigating?

I messed up this quote but below is from Agar 1059

GWU needs to die because GWU is scum. Freddie going to ground looks sketch as hell.

I fucking hate that the two players I most read as town are the two players who have sucked the joy out of this game entirely.

I got it, I am sorry.

On the other hand, I definitely don't want to sound like I am sheeping Agar here, but his read on the General seems to make a lot of sense (even if he is scum lying that he's mason)... I won't vote yet because I haven't finished reading Generals iso and also have my eye on Apogee. He talks a lot, and I don't have the evidence compiled yet but hes sus to me because his talking doesn't get us very far.

fk it VOTE: Apogee

I'll go with my heart, and screw everyone else.

talk to me about this!

it doesn't take a lot of reading to see that apogee has had very little to say throughout the game and has kept an extremely low profile. i need to get to the bottom of the votato death. apogee didn't really scum read votato, but he knew his play-style well enough to call him out on how little he was contributing (see 647) and to wisely conclude that votato was going to be trouble for him, especially since votato calls him out as not the same kind of player as town!apogee of past games. no one else was really paying attention. that night, votato is dies, may he rest in peace. (i have a feeling im going to get a tongue lashing from agar for whatever reason he doesn't want to analyse this) votato was on to something...scum have to use their night kills strategically. if he suspected apogee (which he did) and he was correct, then apogee might have panicked knowing the kind of player votato is, or what he might become once this game gained momentum. furthermore, apogee has been speaking about 'feeling good about/being okay with hammaring' (951, 970, 1028) or 'buy a wagon' (753). some of these are on the same day, hours apart.

getting to the bottom of who thought votato would be the best 1st NK is going to help me solve all my reads. i need something to orbit around and this is where ill start. in the meantime, i am almost certain that a VOTE: apogee is a step towards a town victory.

Here’s my case

Continued attempts to form counter wagons to GeneralWu

Early game lots of scum reads and no town reads keeping options opened.

Not good responses when asked about being scum. Defensive and self conscious responses


This was on mobile I can elaborate when I’m on a pc

[Apogee]

course


You are all of a sudden being active and definitive about something - cool! You haven’t engaged with me until I said something to you. Explain your read on me...minus all the fluff you tried to say yesterday in response to my suspicions of you. Additionally, you didn’t really provide counter evidence. I think you’ve been just active enough to not be Accused of lurking but havent contributed any substance or engaged in scum hunting, except when you were agreeinf with Agar.

Your case on me yesterday was is not super active and didn’t hammer before sleeper unvoted.
I responded to it.
You have massive partner equity with GeneralWu

[Apogee]

BM, I’m very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Agar NK and about Apogee’s vote on me.

Agar was killed because he was the mason

Votato was killed because he was a threat to you and your continued reliance on pushing a certain agenda from his nightkill is scummy

[JamSV]

course


You are all of a sudden being active and definitive about something - cool! You haven’t engaged with me until I said something to you. Explain your read on me...minus all the fluff you tried to say yesterday in response to my suspicions of you. Additionally, you didn’t really provide counter evidence. I think you’ve been just active enough to not be Accused of lurking but havent contributed any substance or engaged in scum hunting, except when you were agreeinf with Agar.

Your case on me yesterday was is not super active and didn’t hammer before sleeper unvoted.
I responded to it.
You have massive partner equity with GeneralWu

May I ask what partner equity means? I'm pretty confident Freddy is the partner, but I'd like to see other people weigh in before I vote / hammer. I do have intent to hammer at the moment though.

[Freddiethelady]

course


You are all of a sudden being active and definitive about something - cool! You haven’t engaged with me until I said something to you. Explain your read on me...minus all the fluff you tried to say yesterday in response to my suspicions of you. Additionally, you didn’t really provide counter evidence. I think you’ve been just active enough to not be Accused of lurking but havent contributed any substance or engaged in scum hunting, except when you were agreeinf with Agar.

Your case on me yesterday was is not super active and didn’t hammer before sleeper unvoted.
I responded to it.
You have massive partner equity with GeneralWu

May I ask what partner equity means? I'm pretty confident Freddy is the partner, but I'd like to see other people weigh in before I vote / hammer. I do have intent to hammer at the moment though.

I think that he is insinuating that I have demonstrated through The quotes above that I have an interest in seeing the general stay alive. To which I would ask, and encourage you to think about also, why would I hammer my alleged scumbuddy? Apogee only attacked me when I brought him up. Then he gave a thin argument by posting a few quotes. How is there no questioning of his motives, or lurking? I’m not the only person who wasn’t participating for a few days. You’ve labeled me LAMISS and now I’m not sure how to ask questions or shed light on my motives without that hanging over my head...I’d like to see more evidence of why you’re scum reading me this hard.

In conclusion, If I hadn’t voted, I would have been incriminated. When I did vote, I was condemned. I knew this would happen yet I also knew if GWu flipped scum it would be best for town, so I decided to vote and here we are.

Don’t you need other people here voting me to hammer?

[JamSV]

course


You are all of a sudden being active and definitive about something - cool! You haven’t engaged with me until I said something to you. Explain your read on me...minus all the fluff you tried to say yesterday in response to my suspicions of you. Additionally, you didn’t really provide counter evidence. I think you’ve been just active enough to not be Accused of lurking but havent contributed any substance or engaged in scum hunting, except when you were agreeinf with Agar.

Your case on me yesterday was is not super active and didn’t hammer before sleeper unvoted.
I responded to it.
You have massive partner equity with GeneralWu

May I ask what partner equity means? I'm pretty confident Freddy is the partner, but I'd like to see other people weigh in before I vote / hammer. I do have intent to hammer at the moment though.

I think that he is insinuating that I have demonstrated through The quotes above that I have an interest in seeing the general stay alive. To which I would ask, and encourage you to think about also, why would I hammer my alleged scumbuddy? Apogee only attacked me when I brought him up. Then he gave a thin argument by posting a few quotes. How is there no questioning of his motives, or lurking? I’m not the only person who wasn’t participating for a few days. You’ve labeled me LAMISS and now I’m not sure how to ask questions or shed light on my motives without that hanging over my head...I’d like to see more evidence of why you’re scum reading me this hard.

In conclusion, If I hadn’t voted, I would have been incriminated. When I did vote, I was condemned. I knew this would happen yet I also knew if GWu flipped scum it would be best for town, so I decided to vote and here we are.

Don’t you need other people here voting me to hammer?

For me, while its true that Apogee was vacant at the end of day 2, your's and gobble's reactions to lurk claims stood out. From my perspective, you came across as really defensive at first, it did die down a bit, but it still was there are a concern at the back of my mind. As for gobble, he just prod dodged. While its hard to say if either of these are Scum Indicative for certain, it definitely isn't in town's interest. However, your post at the end of day 2 strikes me as being scummy, due to you saying he isn't your scum partner, and in the same post hammering him. This seems like an attempt at bussing and distancing more than anything, at least in my eyes. My doubt I'm having though, is I don't see Scum you killing Agar, I thought if you were scum you'd have killed Battle Mage or Apogee to be honest, that's why I'm not voting at the moment, and want other people's opinions, to see if the night kill outweighs your hammer on GeneralWu.

[Apogee]

Wait are people seriously implying there is a world where Agar the uncounterclaimed mason partner doesn’t die?

Before we hammer or anything we need to wait for gobbles replacement to weigh in more

[Apogee]

And of course have the rest of the game weigh in

Freddie you get no credit for the hammer because GeneralWu was always getting flipped yesterday and some last minute bus isn’t looking good especially with your lack of a proper progression or attack of that slot prior to your hammer

[Battle Mage]

I'm V/LA for 48 hours.

Appreciate if people can avoid eliminating anyone before then.

[JamSV]

VOTE: Freddiethelady

[Freddiethelady]

VOTE: Freddiethelady

Any reason? Or are you just throwing darts at the wall?

[dsjstr]

I did look over the first 15 or so pages but got bored. I'm just going to day two but I did notice that during day 1 someone was open about Agar and Votatos relationship.

The reasoning that freddie hammered their own scum buddy to seem town is WIFOMy. The fact that it garnered a vote so quickly seems sketchy. After I read D2 I'll be able to have a more informed opinion.

[Apogee]

[UNV]Freddiethelady[/UNV]

My vote is 100% there in spirit this is just courtesy to BM and to avoid any chance of hammer

[Apogee]

Just realized that didn’t work

UNVOTE: Freddiethelady

[JamSV]

VOTE: Freddiethelady

Any reason? Or are you just throwing darts at the wall?

Throwing at a board ideally. I don't want to leave holes in the wall.

[JamSV]

By the way Freddie, do you not think Apogee unvoting looks really sketchy? He made it out like he was very very certain after all

[dsjstr]

Just to warn you guys I'm going to be busy all day today but nothing to V/LA about.

[Freddiethelady]

By the way Freddie, do you not think Apogee unvoting looks really sketchy? He made it out like he was very very certain after all

In D2 we spoke about the courtesy around unvoting while people are on V/LA or there are replacements on the way. So it could be that apogee is trying to be considerate or he’s getting cold feet since there wasn’t a lot of momentum drummed up after his condemning posts. Maybe Apogee should explain himself