Open 790 | Purgatory | Game Over!

[Isis]

VOTE: Walter the Dunce:10 for being the book and chapter of the Bible that describes this hellish process we are undergoing

[Isis]

HEAL: Dannflor
so he can make judgment day decisions and carry us.
HURT: Dannflor
for not teaching me how the setup works last time he modded it so now I think I can do that

[Isis]

Wait, demons aren't trustworthy? But aren't demons famous for being 100% faithful to soulstealing packs?

I was going to be polite and not point out the numerous indicators that Cythylla is a likely Hectic alt because on the offchance it isn't Hectic isn't that awk ward?

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

[Isis]

brb changing my name to Floortile

It's pronounced such that it rhymes with "Squirtle".

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.

Are you talking about my alt-guessing skills?

Yes, Hectic has fooled with his alts as well as his alignment. And I don't even know not to be as confident on the townread.

I know not to be confident townreading you, I've lost the touch, just when I was getting cocky about it

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Historically towns playing this setup that have heavened scum early have won, so you shouldn't be smiley if you're town. That's what I was part of last time.

Does this mean I actually finished a game without you playing in it or spectating it, Hectic?

[Isis]

Hectic wanna see a cute waifu magic card I spent all my birthday money on

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Historically towns playing this setup that have heavened scum early have won, so you shouldn't be smiley if you're town. That's what I was part of last time.

Does this mean I actually finished a game without you playing in it or spectating it, Hectic?

really ??? that's surprising
is that cuz of flip and associations?
obv heavening town and helling scum is better EV though ...

Getting associatives from the scum you were townreading the most literally never happens in games of mafia. It is very unique. Most people target scummy players with cops. It's easy to underrate and it goes beyond the EV in its value in making a solve
I mean if I didn't have the data I'd think it can't possibly even break even but the data has kind of added up

[Isis]

Hectic wanna see a cute waifu magic card I spent all my birthday money on

yes i do

I played her in two small tournaments! Isn't she cuddly?

[Isis]

Ok if that won't push me to pull the trigger nothing will

I will not actually regret this decision

When I opened Amazon they were sitting in my cart, right where I've had them ambivalently for three months, on the precipice of my desire

[Isis]

Probably longer than 3 months

[Isis]

Isis you just ignored my question in favour of talking about cards. WHY is your text Purply?

I literally deleted a response to you to go purchase my amazon shopping cart because Hayasaka ignited my heart's desires

[Isis]

What I backspaced is that I used this color in the first Purg
and I can't remember why
And now I'm making a tradition

Also I agree that that is good read, alt hunting can be kind of like SK hunting
I really object to calling the scum demons though demons are fallen angels let's not besmirch demons like that

[Isis]

she's an angel!

Me? Or Emrakul? I mean she does have flying.

[Isis]

Norwee is fun to bully
it is not strange to bully Norwee in any context

[Isis]

Spoiler: Moderator question, do not open unless you are Morning Tweet

Pandora says thank you for modding <3

[Isis]

Norwee is fun to bully
it is not strange to bully Norwee in any context

I see.

Bully noewee is terrible
Why bully in life.
VOTE: isis

I only bully those who I know secretly like it.

VOTE: Dannflor for disrupting my intended D2 heaven
pedit: VOTE: Dannflor for not following instructions

[Isis]

Dannflor is actually voting page 2 scum though.

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Heavened player is likely to become the Decider in this setup.
Hectic has mentioned a couple times in past games that he prefers not to be the decider.
Slight skew against rand for that not being in his thought process more

[Isis]

You're all scum

[Isis]

Post 69 is solvy, how many offtopic posts do I get to make before I play mafia again

[Isis]

Post 69 is solvy, how many offtopic posts do I get to make before I play mafia again

Sry alt slipped my alt account where I pretend I'm human

[Isis]

That hard hitting reverse Elmo action

[Isis]

Wait someone gets that reference right

I'm not the only player from the last run of the setup, right?

Um
Dannflor you read unbolded gameplay?

[Isis]

Hayasaka I've decided your main needs to be implosion, now.
It's a mind imploding identity for you to have but I need to not be alone

[Isis]

I'm voting Dannflor. Do you think he's scum?
pedit: I'm not into multiplayer/EDH, sorry

[Isis]

That's not what I remember. I guess it's not impossible I'm mixing you up with someone else. In spite of your consistent use of one pseudonym and avatar

[Isis]

Is that true? I thought this setup has a scumsided EV, so in theory not doing anything would work?
Like I felt like if the partner of the heavened scum in Dannflor's Purg had done less (instead of doing 4x average participation, as a hydra) the associatives to the heavened scum wouldn't have been as strong and our randomer helling would have lost out more.

[Isis]

omg

[Isis]

not at you
obviously
in the not meanest way possible
yet also the most emphatic

[Isis]

I think you might be pointing out that I'm projecting. I think I change my style to fit the EVs of setups moreso than many players. The biggest example being when I bussed NaCl with a renegade freighter in a closed 13p with a scumsided core mechanic, but then partnered with the same player with similar play in a closed 15p with about 6 confirmed towns and I refused to bus him because I felt I had less EV to work with.

I think you may be right that normal players would look at getting heavened as "oh in this setup if I'm a good girl/boy/lovecraftian horror I can get a shiny" and would use that to guide their strategy instead of percentages.

[Isis]

*open 15p

[Isis]

This font is beautiful

Are you literally not going to read my posts if I keep it, I can switch, it will only break a quarter of my heart.

I have had people range from saying it's awful and saying later they were just ribbing it was fine, to people saying they slightly dislike it then admitting they hadn't read a post for 20 pages.

But generally I drop it if not everyone will be able to play mafia

Until after I delete them from the game

[Isis]

EV is Expected Value, it's the weighted average of each possible benefit with consideration to how likely each different magnitude benefit is.
When the benefits all match it ends up simply referring to things that increase or decrease your probability of winning

[Isis]

I have a macro, I type "pnk" and hit ctrl+spacebar for the front and do "knp" for the back. It's a google chrome extension. If I show you how do make your posts looks like green crayons in 5 keystrokes will you forgive me?

[Isis]

I don't think we are focusing enough discussion on how amazing Hectic's kitty is

[Isis]

The Chrome extension is here. The company also has an extension for Hectic's idiosyncratic preferred browser, here.

You pick strings of characters, and when you type those strings in, then press your special chosen hotkey, pressing the special chosen hotkey looks to the left of your cursor to see if it matches one of your special strings, and if it does, it replaces that string with what you have macroed.

You'll want to go to "settings" in the extension to change you hotkey to ctrl+space or something else good, I remember disliking the default.

It is pretty easy to add new macros, you click the little page, name your new page after what you want to type in to get the effect, then put the text you want replaced as the contents of the file

You can import other people's macros from files, so you can borrow a bunch from me. It has an "import from clipboard" option, you can copy all the text in this spoiler box and paste it in

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[
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  {
    "name": "sampleSnippet",
    "body": "Hello new user! Thank you for using ProKeys!\n\nThis is a sample snippet. Try using it on any webpage by typing 'sampleSnippet' (snippet name; without quotes), and press the hotkey (default: Shift+Space), and this whole text would come in place of it.",
    "timestamp": 1568764398577
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  {
    "name": "letter",
    "body": "(Sample snippet to demonstrate the power of ProKeys snippets; for more detail on Placeholders, see the Help section)\n\nHello %name%,\n\nYour complaint number %complaint% has been noted. We will work at our best pace to get this issue solved for you. If you experience any more problems, please feel free to contact at me@organization.com.\n\nRegards,\n%my_name%,\nDate: [[%d(D-MM-YYYY)]]",
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    "timestamp": 1568764398577
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  {
    "name": "urlMacro",
    "body": "Use the URL macro (details in the Help page) to retrieve information about the current webpage URL. For example, when executed on any webpage, the code - [[%u(0)]] - outputs the full website name on which it is executed.",
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    "body": "Dear user, here are some things you need to know in this new UI:\n\n1. You need to click on the name or body of the listed snippet to expand it completely. In the following image, the purple area shows where you can click to expand the snippet.\n\n<img src='../imgs/help1.png'>\n\n2. Click on the pencil icon to edit and the dustbin icon to delete a snippet/folder.\n3. Click on the folder, anywhere in the purple area denoted below, to view its contents.\n\n<img src='../imgs/help2.png'>\n\n4. Click on a folder name in the navbar to view its contents. In the example below, the navbar consists of 'Snippets', 'sampleFolder' and 'folder2',  each nested within the previous.\n\n<img src='../imgs/help3.png'>",
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Included in there is
lsh - the one I used for playing lash. For some reason I chose to make it place both ends, which requires me to click my mouse in the center. Probably because I was always wallposting that game, so what's one click.
pnk, then knp - this one
nrs, then srn - I put one that will make a narsetty blue for Hayasaka
grn, then nrg - I put a green on black like Hectic did in here for Green Crayons to use, he can go in and remove the spoiler effect if he doesn't like it
tib, then bit - stands for "tibbers" cause I did some posts roleplaying as Annie in Deathlist

[Isis]

My entrance in Green Crayons's game is beautiful and deserves to be linked, I broke my new main in by trying to roleplay some weird cross site newbie.

I think knowing my meta or not GC's entrance seems scummier than rand, that perception is colored by Krazy bitching about my font on Purg1 as an excuse not to read my content. I don't think that's far from what GC did here. I posted like, a read and a half already, I think.

[Isis]

do you expect Green Crayons to know what Isis is usually like? is agreeing with Hayasaka's theory scummy? Voting Isis purely for font reasons seems ever so mildly towny to me too even if I disagree and think bullying Isis should be illegal

Can you make it illegal for Loki to bully his little sister?
He does it sometimes.
Even though all she ever does to him is like him to clean him

[Isis]

*lick

[Isis]

You see it as scummy and not mildly towny now?

[Isis]

Hay is a terrible nickname for Hayasaka and I am going to call her Narset until she asks me to stop which might be immediately

[Isis]

I have a classic Izzet deck with Niv Mizzet at the top of the curve to ping 1 damage every time I play a spell that Narset found. Well, I did, I think I lost that deck . I definitely have at least four standard art narsets from my piles of draft goodies though.

[Isis]

Given the nature of this setup I think someone has to vote someone they don't want to vote as long as they think they are voting with town. We hold such a small amount of the votes that is kind of needed.

Only Orange Star would blindly rely on allies the way CO Narset suggests

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

is this even tru?
when have you misread me other than reservoir dogs

Abnormal Adventures
Triad Conspiracy
Achievement Mafia -except-mechanical-effects

And then what you're likely missing from trying to guesstimate your tally from your perspective is how often my "accurate" townreads of you are from playing scum against you an awful lot, Apocalypse, Deathlist, Flying Scumsman, Dr. Lonely.

I read you correctly as town in Fusion Mafia. That time. I did good. I was a trooper.

[Isis]

Man it's hard to do tallies cause of the alts, I think I scumleaned you incorrectly in most of Marked for Death, not sure, and then I read you correctly in Chiptune, unless I didn't spectate enough of the game and you were actually scum, who knows, I sure don't.

[Isis]

+ wincon is like saying +EV except without archaic terminology!!!

[Isis]

Some stronger town players intentionally stayed behind in that game, refusing to be heavened because they wanted to be in the game thread and solve. That’s a good town strategy right there.

That's stupid, heavened players get to solve in judgment day. That's backerds

[Isis]

that's mean because I'm drinking

and probably wrong because of the majority heaven wincon?

[Isis]

i want to go back to stuff i saw earlier and didn't comment on

while i am here

[Isis]

Spoiler: stuff before 151 i looked at

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

idk ok I know this already when through a rebuttal but I still feel like it's iffy
it's a bit of false equivalency about heaven being strictly positive in general when it's a lot easier to view it that way for scum.
Like as town, there is no difference between "being in heaven" and "not being in heaven yet"
It's still super weak and kind of a page 2 thing
but i'm starting form the beginning so yer

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Historically towns playing this setup that have heavened scum early have won, so you shouldn't be smiley if you're town. That's what I was part of last time.

Does this mean I actually finished a game without you playing in it or spectating it, Hectic?

really ??? that's surprising
is that cuz of flip and associations?
obv heavening town and helling scum is better EV though ...

ok actually this completely obviates my point cause then his level of perception of the setup is actually at ground zero for sure

and this isn't categorically something that gets faked because it's theory

Hectic wanna see a cute waifu magic card I spent all my birthday money on

Whether or not I see a picture of a Japanese Narset in your upcoming post will determine how I read you moving forward.

pedit: Hmmm

i feel the need to nerd, and say, that this post would be scummy if I had posted a picture of progenitus, who is also very appendagey and big, and awesome, and one of my favorites, because she kind of telegraphed a splerurge of alignment expository posting in response to me failing to post narset

BUT
butBUTbut
Narset and Emrakul are both weird denial "you don't get to do whats you want to do" cards
which justifies her hmm
because i posted something narset adjacent
emrakul dumps all the cards out of your hands when during the controlled turn, narset just says on the card for your opponent to skip some draws
it is a similar effect
and they are both strong independent females
who have been banned or restricted in at least one format for being so mean and good at denying cards (Emrakul was banned from standard right after i spent so much birthday money on her, narset parter of veils is restricted to 1 per deck in vintage ruleset)

Isis you just ignored my question in favour of talking about cards. WHY is your text Purply?

Hectic said this was scummy
And I think Norwee always interacts with people over nai garbage at the beginning over game
and then i think oh also norwee is always scum in every game you've played so far.
So I guess I don't really know? but ignoringt he person it just looks like a question that was probably going to get ignored if he didn't ask again

i was planing to talk about
the kaladesh
next

Ok if that won't push me to pull the trigger nothing will

I will not actually regret this decision

When I opened Amazon they were sitting in my cart, right where I've had them ambivalently for three months, on the precipice of my desire

One day I will join you! Can't really play magic right now though and I like buying from my store
My sleeves have collected a lot of dust over the past 5 months of shuffling waiting for the world to open up again.

IMAGE

sober me composed this post earlier and backspaced but drunk me offers more unsolicited advice : my local game store owner made it clear on War of Spark release that he will have little to no availability of anime art planeswalker because it only comes out of boxes you buy in japan and buying drugdealzy boxes from japan just so people might buy anime art singles isnt as good a deal as just sticking with american inventory. so you might not be able to support your local game store with respect to anime planeswalker purchases (you might! but, maybe not)
I am waiting for the stores to open up to buy Ox of Agonas for my dredge deck from my local store even though I am tempted to order it and feel like I have it in my pocket cause i want to support.

No one else is giving me a vibe they are actually trying to town tell.
Honestly,VOTE: Cthylla is probably the worse offender of the 2.


Everyone else seems very mellow to me so I don't have super strong opinions across the board on them.

this didn't occur to me on first readhtrough but on second did you know have you played with hectic and his kind of default status is is "is trying to towntell"? certainly as scum too but like
he always has that vibe
he starts the game and he says
I want to be the cat that runs up the tree not that cat that didn't
AND HE HAS AN ADORABLE KITTEN NOW!!!!!
so anyway i would tempoer your assessment if you'ven't played him

Norwee is fun to bully
it is not strange to bully Norwee in any context

I see.

Bully noewee is terrible
Why bully in life.
VOTE: isis

This post was a little disconcerting cause i'm always worried about stuf that does this dance of being ambiguous of whether it should be counted for tally for solving

Does that make sense?
I want walter to be town cause he is new to site
welcome walter
pls to solve and this goes for word321 too, try not to think about strategies and just play the way to express your alignment
i have been using this word more lately express your alignment
it feels pretty

Everyone else seems very mellow to me so I don't have super strong opinions across the board on them.

I am very hurt by that Hayasaka.

I am sorry Norwei I didn't mean to do that to you
I appreciate everything you have done so far!

mm what would you say he had done so far by here?

I don't want to send Isis anywhere I want her to stay in purgatory so she can share more cat pictures

This is weekly town indicative
because as a slip Dannflor is contemplating being in the thread with me, which means he is not devoting much mentals space to getting heavened (as a scum goal) or helled(as a scum fear) early
UNVOTE:
I didn't notice it the second time i noticed it the first time
I was busy ok
I wanna scumbin dannflor for two consecutive pages one day :/

VOTE: Green Crayons

don't like his entrance
agreeing with Hayasaka on a questionable theory
voting Isis for disliking her font
the theory is bad because Isis's entrance isn't different from her norm
also people post for fun
like Isis entered like this in her last game of achievement hunting

it's a good theory in the sense that it is a towny theory

i agree
Hayasaka is cool for it

I still don't have heads or tails of this sequence where the Hayasaka theory was both bad and good?

I am now alive.

This is a good mafia game no matter what happens from here

Green Crayons has played with Isis before !
the "happy with my vote" bit i didn't like
don't know why but maybe cuz it feels like he's putting unreasonable confidence in something which doesn't warrant it?

i should know isis's early game play from playing one game with her = dumb take

also lol i forgot how she entered that game, and also it's not comparable to here so = double dumb take

"happy with my vote" as in, i'm happy to take hay's theory down the Isis chute in responding to why hay wanted to go the Cth route

Is the difference between the Isis chute and the Cth chute font??
there's nothing more in your posts that i can find
what's the deal
I only figured out the "chutes" the second time
chutes and ladders

I like cats
Ur fonts look horrible in sepia
Maybe Ill get used to it

But lets get the ball roling
Has anyone played on this setup before?
Are there any strategies regarding this? As mafia and as town

Since there are no PRs, I guess a lot of traditional strategy is discarded here

I think scum would prefer to take a role assignment to "bitcher" or "nonbitcher" like GC or Cyth and I kind of like appreciating half the wincon-perpendicular behavior and complaining about half.
I think this entrance was objectively better than walter's
which means it was subjectively better but I am being superlative
which is annoying
have you even met someone who uses "literally" as their only superlative
and some people sprinkle "literally" in as a superlative that's normal
but one someone has no superlatives but that one
after a while you start to htink
"what this word actually means is exactly, in a way that is not superlative at all. When you say the taco form taco bell is literally mud in a roll of kleenex, you are incorrect because kleenex was not used."
Anyway I just did the same thing bad me

Has anyone played on this setup before?
Are there any strategies regarding this? As mafia and as town

I have. In another forum.
I played as scum in a 5 man team. D1 we bussed 1 scum, and then consequently heavened 2 people. We needed 1 moe but after that we got screwed by associations. It’s a hard setup for scum so i’m assuming they will try to muddy associations. Town should just play like town, not much difference there.

That is good to know.
Even though I have not played this setup at all.
I did some reading of the setup and I am thinking during heaven phase we should be careful with e-1 since scum will have incentive to self-hammer.
Also pressure votes too.
In your game norwee did that occur?

yeah so I referenced earlierer towards walter about setup strat talk
this shit is largely irrelevant
compared to townread some towny people and scumread some scummy people

[Isis]

Yeah, that is a good point.
It serves both win conditions.
Something to consider for heaven phase,
Do we send a more town read person or do we send a less town read person?
Actually this answer could be affected on flip of H1 so yeah.
@ Everyone
Would you attempt during the first heaven phase to send a mostly town person or a lesser town read person?

Pedit that is interesting.

this is actually a difficult question
but the way we play the hell phases is much, much more important
after my last purgatory game my impression is to heaven someone whose associations to other players is very clear, which may not have to do with alignment exactly
I know that's weird
basically everything is tradeoffs i think

[Isis]

Some stronger town players intentionally stayed behind in that game, refusing to be heavened because they wanted to be in the game thread and solve. That’s a good town strategy right there.

That's stupid, heavened players get to solve in judgment day. That's backerds

I am curious Isis, how much of a main thread do you follow in a game once you are eliminated?

When I have no powers that function after death, I generally spectate whatever game interests me the most on site until I have /inned to a game that replaces that "slot". Sometimes that game is the one I died in, like with Autumnal. Sometimes, it is not.
If I have powers that function after death, it's a very easy tiebreaker to choose to watch the game I can still affect and improve my chances to win.

[Isis]

Some stronger town players intentionally stayed behind in that game, refusing to be heavened because they wanted to be in the game thread and solve. That’s a good town strategy right there.

That's stupid, heavened players get to solve in judgment day. That's backerds

But they don’t get to impact or comment on what’s going on in the main thread.

I guess it's a choice of preference, do you want someone you strongly townread to go up to heaven where they can make the right decision if the rest of us suck and we end up on doomsday.
Or do we keep them here to lead us blind sheep to greener pastures.

Since philosophically I tend to believe/want to believe that Day 1 is 80% of the dayplay of any game I care about wisdom rather tahn ability to engage and affecting weak days that aren't day1

but I know my view is atypical

[Isis]

as some amount of comprimiese toward green crayons i'm not gonna correct my bbcode errors

[Isis]

Alright, fair answer.
How closely would you say you read the thread?

Do you think you'd be unable to stay interested in the thread if you were to be heavened, Walter?

[Isis]

Buenas noches Walter el tonto

[Isis]

they both are worse than my rand expectation of how an a player whose name I don't recognize onboards onto a game

but like I'm also trying to reconcile that with knowing this is a lobby with 5 very experienced players 1 secret alt that's probably the same thing, 2 newbies and the last person is me, and the split is a 6:3. So "the two newbies seem to have underwhelming entrances" has some probabilistic orange flags to it.
So I guess that tempts me to grave on a curve?

anyway not surprised by a take that you dislike word's entrance

[Isis]

wait is your legislative agenda that people can bully me on the first five pages of games now

[Isis]

yeah i was saying i think a topic change is gonna be more parsable readable
then i got sucked in though

[Isis]

Is the difference between the Isis chute and the Cth chute font??
there's nothing more in your posts that i can find
what's the deal
I only figured out the "chutes" the second time
chutes and ladders

No, it's not the font.

I should really play the game though as happy as I am to see Isis order my favorite card and would love to stay off topic.
I think one of Isis or Cthylla is scum here, I think scum have the most incentive to open up the game with this much presence.

Similarly to the way scum tend to open up theme games strongly because they spent time getting hyped up already. I think scum would look and see their win con involves getting sent to heaven and would promptly decide to open up the game like this to try and achieve an early pocket.

The only read I am particularly happy about is my current vote. I think your

<GC note: "your" is "Isis">

energy is headed into way too many OOG posts for me to be able to think you are trying to actually pocket anyone.

Post 58 is a cute theory to pursue early D1. That means either Isis or Cthylla is voteworthy under this theory.

Note I was voting Isis before digesting Post 58, in an initial skim of the 4 or so pages that existed then, because of the font thing to register my annoyance.

Post 82 is Hayasaka explaining why she went the Cthylla-vote route rather than Isis-vote route. Once I figured out what she meant by OOG, I disagreed with that being a basis to discount an Isis vote under her theory, and was comfortable with keeping my vote where it is at this point.

This doesn't make sense
1. You RVS vote me for my font
2. Narset says Cythlla and Isis are scummy, but Isis is scummier because Nihonium has 115 atoms.
3. You have to figure out what Nihonium is and once you've clarified that part is invalid, so Cythlla and Isis remain equally good votes.
4. Later you are "happy with your vote"? Is that verbiage you would usually use to describe a vote you cast between 2 candidates with no way to differentiate them at all?

Correction:

I don't think that you consider that continually speculating *

- This isn't a freudian slip, I'm not native to english.

En la lengua espanol, el negativo doble significa negativo jajaja.

i change playstyle and gimmick across alts
sureness of reads are part of playstyle and i have plenty of town and scum games where i act very sure about reads
and also plenty where i act or am unsure about them

Etto.. actual read confidence is pretty key for trying to read people.
It's just a forum game but if this gets you misread sometimes because you make your read progressions harder to follow I hope you don't get mad about it.

this is a big part of the reason i secret alt btw
not because i have any meta tells - i don't think i do or no one's found one as far as i'm aware
but just because people see someone they've played with before acting differently from the previous game where that person was town, and assume that means they're scum

baddies gonna bad

Nobody is going to give a bad strategy to hurt town--neither town (obviously) or scum are motivated to openly suggest bad strategies.

This is kind of an incomplete view, actually, Bingle was obvscum in Fogport because he usually provides a lot of input on optimal mechanical play but only made token contributions because he was scum needing town to throw. Also I've openly suggested bad strategies when I was confident my work couldn't/wouldn't be checked in the proper way but admittedly that is extremely rare and a bit like stealing second base. Volxen and Elements also did it to win Undertale Semi-open and it was baller

why don't I look like Hectic?

You don't seem to be flowing naturally in your texts (my personal view).

clidd, Cythilla has referenced past games Hectic played with me, so either Cythlla is Hectic or Cythlla is one of very few players that spectates most or all game on the forum.

he can think you're wrong or show frustration as scum as well clidd

Yeah, I kind of feel like clidd is wrong here but I'm reading the way he's going about it as townish?

Hey Miss Hayasaka and Miss Isis, I would like to ask two questions:

1. what do you think about the suspicions on Word ?
2. by extension, what are your opinions on the AI ​​impression I got from G.C ? does it make sense ?

Word is scummier than rand, and as he hasn't followed up his entrance and Walter has been a little townish in his followup, Word is left the most likely scum straggler in this sort of category.
I think GC is scummy although the stuff he says about mechtalk being ok is true, about how as long as you still have other content you'll still be readable is true. But on a different axis, I think it's scummy in the sense that it's what he's excited proportional to other things going on. It suggests maybe he doesn't have any alignment mysteries to solve.
I agree with Cythlla that being emotional about the argument means little.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Walter and word shading me for posting offtopic, I enjoy doing that as both alignments >_>
I hate it, the more people police that, the more it becomes "the more you play mafia in a way that's less fun for you the more you can win", regardless of my alignment, and it sucks without actually being a good way of reading me.
The only times posting offtopic is remotely scum indicative is when it's used to mask a low amount of content, and paradoxically I am getting scumread by Narset, GC,

and word??

for having too much content!
pls
why

Isis is talkative, Hayasaka talked explicitely being talkative is a mark of scumsiness and shaded Isis by this
If they were scum together, one would expect Hayasaka to comunicate those kind of things on a PT

This doesn't actually make sense because accusing the most active players of being scum because they're active is a hipster take that rarely appears in games, so if Narset said nothing at all it's highly unlikely anyone would have suggested the concept all game. Also frustrating when I'm a top poster in basically all my games grumble but I think it's good faith because I've had scum partners in scum PTs say "what I think about this setup is we need to hit the ground running and get townread in this playerlist/setup". Not to my agreement

[Isis]

VOTE: Green Crayons

[Isis]

Then do you see the numerous opposite interpretations of me as good faith or bad faith?

[Isis]

I think sending town to hell is pretty bad.

There's a normal mafia game underneath the purgatory stuff where just killing all the townies loses the game

[Isis]

I find that the most particular thing that defined the vote was the wall post

I mean, I had a pocket of time, so I reread the game and commented on things I wanted to comment on the second time around. It ended up decently long so I spoilered it.
Do you think only scum!me would "have a pocket of time, and reread the game and comment things I wanted to comment on the second time around", or that the way I did so has commentary on stuff worth commenting or is scummy in some other way? If it's the first one, well, uh, no, if it's the second one, then you should be more specific and choosing to be vague instead isn't a good look.
It's like, kind of ironically hypocritical for your slot, because I had an opposite problem from you and was bored of Hearthstone having played it too many times yesterday, and so was in a hobby time mood of playing some mafia, and I'm not alive in many games for me so that put a lot of stuff into this one. I don't lie about RL either

[Isis]

hypocrisy isn't a scumtell, btw
most people mean it that way but I'm always to the first one to point out that it isn't
the last bit is rather why I want you to reconsider your thinking if you're town

[Isis]

hypocrisy is accusing someone of doing something bad and doing it yourself

[Isis]

I like to think I can do almost anything as scum. I'm not sure if I wallpost more or less as scum
I'm usually more likely to be caught as scum when I post more, in general. I post a lot when I roll scum anyway, just to stay similar to how I play town (not because "get in the thread and get townread" is a good strategy, I don't think that's the best way to play scum).
Assassins mafia I kind of won as scum because I had a V/LA so I didn't really get caught.

pedit: you should reconsider your guess at my alignment

and the hypocrisy is : "the (short) volume of my post is NAI, because I had exams IRL => the (long) volume of Isis post shows she's scum, even though she had 4 hours to burn IRL"

hypocrisy might not be the perfect word

[Isis]

yeah by the exact reasoning you're giving, I'm taking it so bad because you've done absolutely nothing to analyze my content besides say "it was scummy to write a wall"??? you haven't used the quote function with respect to it a single time, haven't needed to, because you're taking what looks like a rather simple, easy, basic position.

[Isis]

VOTE: word321

This is like, way too dissonant
It reads like he thinks he's mimicked a push he'd actually make as town, but hasn't

[Isis]

Once I have a concern with whether it's genuine
confidence level doesn't matter

[Isis]

Hmm

That maybe have been more decisive than I would have preferred

Cythlla, would you ever lolhammer a partner for the bonus credz?

[Isis]

norwee what is the source of your clowngirl avatar?

[Isis]

It seems to be a consistent character portrayed across many of your avatar selections so it must come from somewhere

[Isis]

Most people prefer collation but I'm more than happy to do multiposting. Some people complain about multiposting

[Isis]

She made one post that seemed townie but I don't have much. I townread you more than her

[Isis]

y u no answer clidd about Narset?

[Isis]

0.0

[Isis]

VOTE: clidd

[Isis]

The theory stuff about heavening is kind of tricksie but

I think you actually just heaven your townreads
Because if they flip scum you get the most information

How many associative threads could be a consideration too I guess.

If you heaven scum, you want it to be one you never would have caught anyways.

[Isis]

I think we should slow down cause I want to play with Dannflor somes

[Isis]

Like Norwee pointed out, I think when someone is doing that poorly, voters and "nodders" aren't too different. At most you'd be wanting to try to clear the people who didn't scumread him at all.

When I go back to ctrl f word, that turns out to be "everybody except Green Crayons posted some kind of shade or scumread about word"

If the tempo itself is suspicious, I think you'd want to be looking at Cythlla as the deciderer that it would convert from a high pressure wagon to hellfire. I was spending lots of brainspace on Hectic bussing a partner with a hammer in a scenario that was already bad to try to get a pass for a few phases and am not sure exactly how it works this other way and if that still means Cythlla is an angel

Yes ANGELS
angels are the worst, not demons
Demons make interesting deals and have fascinating ambitions, angels are awful and need to be damned to hell.
I shall fight your awful wording white must be removed from the color pie
pedit: if you think it's a scummy wagon for pace and not a scummy wagon for poor merits you should be looking at Hectic and I guess me rather than setting a scum quota for the wagon. The latter looks gambler's fallacyish to me

[Isis]

Achievement was different cause I had to get ride of dumb and dumber's avatar

[Isis]

My legs were in an uncomfortable position and I was just about to shift them but Pandora nestled in my lap so now I don't want to disturb her

[Isis]

Not having fliers in limited is incredibly boring and sometimes I don't want to play blue.

Excuse you.

Spoiler:

[Isis]

I was townreading clidd but now that we kind of have the ball rolling here I am townreading clidd

[Isis]

Cythlla, are you here? I want to hear what you want to do with this phase

like as early as possible with as little info about how others are leaning as possible.

I have an eye on you

For reasons that are 0% "it's playing different from its last game"

I am honorabru

[Isis]

clidd, what does replying to a post with "hum" mean for you?
I want to understand you a best as possible

[Isis]

Dannflor when you get back to the thread here is a little wall for you about the strategy for this day phase and how some of the incentives it produces dovetail with your playstyle

Spoiler:

[Isis]

I will post here later not on phone

[Isis]

I'm gonna try to catch up without quoting cause I feel lazy.

I don't think GC should be shading clidd as a heaven today. Watching clidd play town before helps but I think he's generally been playing from an uninformed perspective so I would still be townreading him almost as much if I'd never seen him play. Being confused about the cohort of players wanting to heaven Dannflor and wondering whether there's an alignment divide echoed some of my thoughts (not sure if he said exactly that, but I thought it was at least implied)

Dann has hardly been able to play the game so heavening him makes no sense to me. I want to heaven town or scum I would have misread anyway. Someone who I don't have much opinion on because of a VLA isn't any of those things. The townreads on him seem TMI to me, I don't think the things cited about him were remotely out of range.

GC might be a bad heaven (I guess I am randomly getting onto heaven topics like Narset wanted yay) for being good at mafia. NSG nommed him for a scummy after nightless vanilla and he did wagon analysis stuff that gave town lots of milage in that game. IDK if he is always good though or it was just one game. GC are you always good?
That's more of an excuse than my own reason, clidd seems more town than anyone else to me so I am likely to try to slander other developing heavenwagons till I get what I want.

Cyth would be a bad heaven because then we wouldn't be able to send Cyth to hell. I've got really really bad feelings about its posts on this page especially the comment about not using this style of posting again/it being a failure. I think town!cyth would view getting mis-helled as all in good fun and would have no purposefulness at all in how his persona is constructed, but scum!cyth would have some amount of purposefulness, not tons, but a little. You can't fail at a goal you weren't trying for. That's my life creed. You can fail at something you were trying for.
like just in general getting scumread as town is an accident and getting scumread as scum is you made a mistake and the cyth persona thing makes the admittance here blurred enough not for it to be a too obviously scummy to be scummy point.

But I should stop going on and on.

I kind of don't hate a Walter heaven but it's not a clidd heaven. I kind of don't hate a Norwee heaven but it's not a clidd heaven. Both of those slots seem kind of comfortable in the game thread and lean town to me.

I don't want to heaven Narset because if she's scum I think I'm going to be able to figure it out. I think! Lots of her posting this day phase seems like townspew that my mind is treating as fakeable and maybe I'm just treating it as fakeable because I'm bad. Like she says "why isn't anyone nervous that this is a 3:5" and my mind goes "was this post easy to make because she just posted in the scum PT ' just need two townies to heavenvote scum here because yay it's a 3:5'?"

I'm not nervous about it being a 3:5 ftr because I think townhunting is less brutalized by ratios than scumhunting but this is like the only setup for testing that (besides Undertale opens pls pre-in) so it's not an opinion with a strong foundation

[/color][/spoiler]

[Isis]

I'd be willing to compromise and vote Clidd here but I believe he doesn't actually want to be heavened and that's a wish I am willing to respect at this moment in time.

This is the wrong attitude. Not wanting to go to heaven makes him townier, which is all the more reason to drag him kicking and screaming through the pearly gates.
It's like when Sam doesn't really want to carry the ring, and then you realize they should probably actually send Frodo home and have Sam carry the ring.
Every amount of preference clidd genuinely has for staying in purgatory gives him -1 pts for "give clidd what he prefers" and +20 for "clidd's preference means this is a safe heaven"

Why do you want to honor clidd's preference, and is it based on winning this game at any cost or a natural desire to be nice to people?

[Isis]

Are you saying you think clidd is so insanely dials to eleven town that there's no chance we heaven him and find out he was actually scum? Which would be a very very large amount of information.
I feel pretty confident about my read but I think I would almost never consider a player to fit that category. I would only have that kind of confidence level like, one out of every 5 games. Even someone who I plan not to vote for the entirety of a game because I'm so sure about them, I think I'd be wrong about them often enough that I'd want to do something like heaven them.

If you heaven someone who is leantown, you're much more likely to find out your read was wrong, but the value is less because you had a good chance to correct yourself on your own. That was what I was trying to say at daystart.

[Isis]

So from my own perspective I am not altering my own win rate while achieving the goal I listed.

You're a filthy Zedruu player aren't you

[Isis]

I'm confused with Hectic this game.

[Isis]

Hectic wanna see a cute waifu magic card I spent all my birthday money on

The Chrome extension is here. The company also has an extension for Hectic's idiosyncratic preferred browser, here.

Our previous game:

Is pocketing Hectic a good strat? for some reason I never do that

The thing I was thinking could be demon-indicative from Isis early on was this. I got the feeling this was the game she tried to pocket me as a demon early on.

Is this meming or do you actually think I would do that, and that's how I would do that? I don't know if I believe you think this.
In the same exploratory vein as my post in achievement mafia, is it possible to pocket Hectic without doing anything more than rickrolling him and showing him magic cards? for some reason I never do that

[Isis]

It's not fair for Norwee to get as much practice as scum as he gets

[Isis]

I would townread someone, copy someone's read, or say they're good at town.
I would be -extremely unlikely- to set out to try to pocket someone, it's not a lot of my mindset for how I play scum. But fluffposts aren't how I would try to pocket someone once I'm imagining the hypothetical.
If you think fluffposts are pockety why didn't you say I was pocketing Narset?

[Isis]

I will only pocket you as cult leader so that I can recruit you right after pocketing you and confess that it was all a lie

[Isis]

Do you ever have a moment where you're like tonally scumreading someone and then you look over their reads and a lot of them are pretty close to yours and you wonder if you're doing something wrong?

I feel like I should keep a better spreadsheet over how often course correcting based on that backfires or works out

[Isis]

You can't change your sig during the game but you can join a startling number of players who have me sigged once it has concluded

[Isis]

Narset, are you scum? I need more scumreads. I keep trying to read this like a 2 scum game

[Isis]

I think Green Crayons seems scummy, but the person who agrees with me on it I'm leery of, and if it's a universal read and he's scum then the aha moment might be very helpful like it was on last Purg.
Heavening clidd who is just as universally townread and is actually townie is just better though.

[Isis]

Ftr I would like being heavened, I just don't think heaven phases are as effective for sorting if people push their own heavens. In Purg I was annoyed at S_S for starting heaven phase with a selfvote

[Isis]

I'm not sure why several people seem to have touted that as an alignment indicator when it seems playstylish to me

[Isis]

that kind of contradicts what I was saying about "don't heaven clidd just because he doesn't want to", but it's a hard point to articulate, it's that the preference is sort of a logic pretzel since we're only honoring a teammates request if he is town

I don't actually townread clidd because he wanted to be spared. I'm townreading him from the way he's been trying to solve and how he seems to be collecting evidence without preconceived conclusions

[Isis]

I can UNVOTE:
We need more Dannnnnflorrrrrrrrr

[Isis]

You are actually doing less than you do as scum Norwee and idk how to parse it.
pedit: I hope your forcereplacement does you justice, beeboy

[Isis]

Lady 7 had an unfair advantage over me

[Isis]

I was just kidding

I have trouble "getting" "i made an alt for a playstyle" people though

I like don't understand how you could make a different playstyle without omitting pieces of yourself

and if you omit pieces of yourself you make yourself worse

so why not just be the best possible you

[Isis]

Norwee you only need one more unique heaven vote this phase to summon Exodia

[Isis]

I misread it as "demon child" and it was so much better

[Isis]

I was just kidding

I have trouble "getting" "i made an alt for a playstyle" people though

I like don't understand how you could make a different playstyle without omitting pieces of yourself

and if you omit pieces of yourself you make yourself worse

so why not just be the best possible you

I tend to be pretty critical of myself. So when I mess up I end up feeling kinda shitty about myself as I feel I let down my team. So sometimes I just like playing on alts to basically hide from that. It allows me to just sit back and analyze my reads instead of myself. I know this explanation doesn't make it sound any less stupid lmao.

It seems pretty different to me, that doesn't necessarily entail "holding back".
I think I have a pretty bad winrate as both alignments, although I intentionally don't track it, and even though I try pretty hard I think mafia is probably more enjoyable the more I suck at it, so I don't get too upset about my shortcomings.

[Isis]

Isis, tell me your read on Norwee

Aside inclinations to policyhell him as a safety against misreading him twice, I think he seems like town. He's not playing in any way that appeals to a group of players that would try to get him townread. He's townreading me but then not doing anything I'm going to like, and the same more or less goes for clidd.
Scum!Norwee is heavily focused on coordinating with his scumteammates in the PT and the way he's played this dayphase makes it hard for him to have scummates, since he's pushed three or four wagons and they all seemed genuinely possible to go through. Norwee is pretty cooperative as scum, he's not a G7. So either he's town or the entire scumteam changed their minds as a group once or twice during this day phase. So that's the other thing I keep pondering. With a flip it could be easier to visualize teams where he isn't actually being that disruptive but if we just heaven greenclidd today it's too confusing for me to want to hell it.

It's possibly not good enough indicators to actually expect green text in a 5:3 but I haven't found anything scummy about him.

[Isis]

Assuming GC vs. Cth is guaranteed TvS for whatever reason you believe in I think it's more mechanically efficient to heaven someone unrelated to it then hell a member of it and heaven the other.

But that's an intuition and I'm not sure how to math out the T-chart for that

[Isis]

Isis, Dannflor are you 2 town? We can play like the dance game again and be an unstoppable force. That was a fun game.

Ok hectic if I was scum and I wanted to pocket people it would look something like this :starmie:

[Isis]

I'm town

I have this small fear there is a team like Isis/Norwee/Walter

and Cythylla vs. GC is actually town versus town

Like a lot of the posts or fallacies they are making that people are calling scummy or problematic aren't necessarily scummy, they're just flawed arguments

and I feel like the game is slightly pushing a narrative of one of those two or both being scum? but that could be a misread

I was trying to be clear that I was musing on the theory of how it would work if you knew one of two people was scum without subscribing to the theory, almost named the players Alice and Bob but thought it wouldn't be as clear

I agree that I don't actually see any kind of SvT *indicators*.

In a 5:3 any two people talking probably happen to be SvT like 40% of the time. Maybe 60?

[Isis]

should I be more paranoid about Hayasaka than I am? I feel very unparanoid about that slot but I can't point to a specific thing to be like "that's why I'm so confident"

Are you up to date? Was you DND game super short? Did you nat20?

[Isis]

My other thing on why I am unsure if I can vote Isis is it's basically what everyone's secondary option is.

yeah this is what keeps giving me the heebie jeebies

I also don't think it's the end of the world if we heaven Isis!scum

but maybe she is not the town read I need to check right now

I am not against sending her to heaven ever based on this read. I am just hesitant to do it right now.
I actually think after we flip our first scum she would be a great target. If we send scum to heaven on the first phase we have to lynch scum otherwise we lose since no one will be able to properly "judge" us.

I think you misunderstand the setup, you also said this earlier making some "what if there's no one to judge" post. It's impossible to not have a judge. If scum is heavened this phase, next phase isn't a 4:3, it's a 5:2. Then in the worst case scenario, town is helled and it's 4:2. Then heaven 2 phase always resolves the "no judge" problem, either town is heavened, providing at least one judge for the rest of the game, or scum is heavened, and the game ends so it's moot

Isis you wouldn’t try to pocket me as scum would you

That would be rather bulli

I wouldn't. If you continue to be one of the scummiest slots in this game I don't expect you should have to be paranoid about it. You're doing a lot of townreading people without reasoning and I'm not an immediate buyer that you actually think you are so damn good at mafia that heavening one of your (infallible) townreads and leaving yourself in the game so you can carry is better EV than heavening yourself if you know you have town PM. You're above average at town but not transcendent, and I don't even think it's a defensible line if you're transcendently good.
It's too many steps beyond just being confident that if you're heavened you can take lots of correct judgment day shots.
I guess it's possible you think that. At this point so many people in the game have posted "oh no, I doth not really wish to ascend to the greatness" that I think someone has suggested that is a good posture in a PT. I don't remember anybody opposing their own heavening in the first purgatory.

I am pretty tired of the fancy play syndrome of heavening people who might flip scum and I would like to drag clidd kicking and screaming into hell please.
D3 4:3 isn't eLo, it's not good to post those numbers to elicit fear. It's essentially 5:3 due to the heavened town deciding a subsequent phase.

[Isis]

That doesn't make any sense, there would be people to sheep in the game thread.

like
there is putting yourself into roles that are optimal for you
and then there is risking heavening scum, which is akin to helling town
I think town!you knows that the latter is an overbearing consideration but scum!you likes having a colorable argument that lets you lamist around a bit

putting infallible in quotes wasn't meant to suggest your own strength you're extolling is read accuracy, it's to point out that all of it is so uncertain it's just really bad

[Isis]

maybe I'm just crankyjealous cause everyone is talking about their new puberty xmen power at show and tell and I am just like "actually I kind of think the longer I survive in mafia games the more I throw them, oh- oh."

[Isis]

I just lost a normal where everyone talked me out of my good reads

[Isis]

Walter's last post or two creeps me out but I can't put my finger on it.

Re: me wanting to heaven Walter at some point, I didn't remember saying that and found it was a throwaway comment I had made about it being ok-ish to heaven Walter or Norwee. I was townleaning each of them when I made the post and didn't expect either to be very readable in the future, Norwee is kind of a palm read and I didn't expect Walter to change frequencies that much with his style and volume. I don't actually remember how much thought I was giving those factors since it was a moot topic; I preferred clidd.

[Isis]

that bothers me less than the timing of Isis dropping me in her reads does, although there could be some element of OMGUS here

I also think her reasons for scum reading me are... somewhat forced and contradictory to earlier comments. Like early in the game she advocated for stronger players going to heaven because they needed to solve from there. And based off that, I basically decided well I don't think I'm a very strong player so I probably should not be going. and then she accuses me of thinking so highly of myself that I want to stay. Which has a second issue of I think she knows me well enough to know that I have very low-confidence in my own ability.

I also don't really understand why she didn't ask me for further explanation on some of my town reads rather than just call me out on "not explaining them," particularly when she's witnessed me be a player who throws out a lot of reads in a somewhat erratic fashion because my mind jumps all over the place

I dunno I just can't shake the feeling that I am being pushed as scummier because I have to be and the pool of people that could possibly be mis-elimed is shrinking

You really gonna post a transformative paraphrase of one of my posts and hope people don't click the link or follow too closely Dflor? In that post I was rebutting Norwee saying "heavening people is bad because they don't get to solve anymore" "actually they can". I didn't say they need to get heavened
You're getting really stretchy

[Isis]

I also don't really understand why she didn't ask me for further explanation on some of my town reads rather than just call me out on "not explaining them," particularly when she's witnessed me be a player who throws out a lot of reads in a somewhat erratic fashion because my mind jumps all over the place

Not discussing your reasonings unprompted was what I was reading. It wasn't the assumption those reasons don't exist (I expect you thought about them even if you're scum)
It's not a surefire indicator of your alignment but I am running out of people who can be scum too.

[Isis]

why do you assume I'm being manipulative/malicious over misunderstanding

Norwee said stronger players staying behind is good

You said no, that's wrong

as far as I understand

That is not what the post says

"Milk is good for you because it has vitamin C"
"Actually milk doesn't have vitamin C"
"Isis thinks milk isn't good for you"

This isn't hard.

[Isis]

And I assume it's malicious over misunderstanding because it seems like so much effort to reach a gotcha, when I have consistently presented my philosophy on heavening over and over this phase. It's not clear. I don't think you'd think my philosophy was different and would reread it more times to reconcile it with my other posts and dismiss this rather basic "I disagree with A && B =/= I disagree with A".
Narset's progression on the topic has been much fairer

[Isis]

GC is scum and Cthylla is

pocketing me with my favorite way to be townread

town. It doesn't have to do with their interaction necessitating any distribution. I just independently think GC's posts are scummy and Cthylla's are townier although I'm still paranoid about wordhammer and some things.
I'm not sure enough that GC is scum to feel confident I'm right when clidd and Narset seem to have thought about it and are confident about it.

[Isis]

This isn't hard.

I mean you literally said norwegian's "good town strategy" of not wanting good town players to go to heaven was backwards? I interpreted that to mean that strong town players should go to heaven.

Instead you actually just meant that solving occurs both in thread and heaven and the strength of players shouldn't be a factor? sorry if I seem obtuse I think my brain is just stuck on this or something

It was backwards logic in that heavened players are the most likely to be able to solve, purgatories less likely to be able to solve, because they perhaps could move to hell and no longer be able to solve.

Players can solve from anywhere and I don't think player strength matters significantly for who is in heaven.
I don't think clidd is a particularly strong player. Maybe he is, I've played with him little. If I wanted to heaven the player I thought was strongest but still townread mediumish and have a mixed strategy like Narset I would have voted Narset.

[Isis]

It is hell phase, Narset confirmed her flip by not hammering when there was a real possibility of unvotes. There's no reason not to discuss like we are in hell phase.

[Isis]

It was a point of rhetoric rather than an actual bona fide perception of your mindset
I'm sorry
I get really frustrated when people don't agree with me about theory stuff in mafia games. You remember fruitfest

[Isis]

GC seems very aware of how his slot is being perceived this game, and he engages with people in a way that seems more about "looking good" rather than lovingly correcting an assailant he townreads or exposing the evil in an assailant he scumreads (although the latter naturally will be a blurrier distinction). It might be somewhat of a meta read because in Nightless Vanilla I felt like I had no bead on him besides how little he cared about how he was perceived. I shaded him or sort of pushed throughout that game but he always like, didn't care, while not undermining me or ignoring comments in a scummy way. In this game he seems more aware.

I didn't like his readslist. But I'm scum on his readslist, so that's a natural reason. I think townlocking Hayasaka in a game that also include's clidd's iso is a bit weird, we heaven'ed Hayasaka but for most it was that Narset isn't as townie but clidd is good at mafia main threads.

I also kind of scumread him the more I come around on Hectic, not because "half the 1v1 must be scum" but because I think Hectic is better at mafia than I used to, not sure whether his skill changed or my perception only.

[Isis]

e.g. sheepable
my food is here
which is more significant disruption than I expect Morning Tweet's flavour writing to be

[Isis]

If walter were straight up a guilty child you would want to hell him even if you're not sure what it means because it kinda lets you "stall" until the next heaven phase where you get one more heavening of information, and then hell3 is more accurate. If you "schedule" walter for hell3 and try to find scum right now you're doing it without the information of heaven2 so it's the same helling that happens anyway on hard mode. Which mode do you prefer to play on Norwee?

Walter is not actually a guilty child though so maybe it's not wrong to consider that a tiebreaker level influence on how you pick? Maybe it's just always wrong I'm not sure I'm rubix cubing it right in my head.

I really want to see walter spew more today.

[Isis]

By the way, I want to thank Hayasaka strongly for performing so well before she left. Her reads and vision of the game were probably the best so far.

I respect her point of view in relation to me, but I don't see myself in the same way. Personally, I see the fact that there are a lot of townreads in my slot as a facilitator, but I don't think that has a bearing on whether I'm a strong player or not.

Considering that I have changed opinions and choices for heaven countless times, my individual game is very inconsistent.

clidd, what would you have done if all your townreads said "I have the same preference as you do and want to stay in purgatory"? Would you have wanted to force one of them into heaven or would you have accepted selfheavening more at that point?

[Isis]

post 975 isn't important to clarify, I was playing with a theoretical point that's actually moot

something something mafia addiction

I do agree that Walter is a top candidate for helling here and I would include not only the quantity but the quality of his posting in saying that but I don't want to get confbiassy on it when his activty might really go up, today is Monday and stuff

[Isis]

By the way, I want to thank Hayasaka strongly for performing so well before she left. Her reads and vision of the game were probably the best so far.

I respect her point of view in relation to me, but I don't see myself in the same way. Personally, I see the fact that there are a lot of townreads in my slot as a facilitator, but I don't think that has a bearing on whether I'm a strong player or not.

Considering that I have changed opinions and choices for heaven countless times, my individual game is very inconsistent.

clidd, what would you have done if all your townreads said "I have the same preference as you do and want to stay in purgatory"? Would you have wanted to force one of them into heaven or would you have accepted selfheavening more at that point?

You preferred not to go to heaven. If GC, Narset, and I all preferred not to go to heaven, would you have tried to convince GC to want to go to heaven or would you have been polite and asked your friends to vote for you?

[Isis]

Full disclosure I just feel curious/fascinated and don't actually have any idea how this question will figure out your alignment, which I already think I've figured out anyway. So it's probably not worth rephrasing too many times

[Isis]

I also kind of scumread him the more I come around on Hectic, not because "half the 1v1 must be scum" but because I think Hectic is better at mafia than I used to, not sure whether his skill changed or my perception only.

what do you mean by this? I've been playing better here than you're used to so it's towny of me?

No, I mean just before this game started my opinion of you is higher than it was just before, say, Fusion started. So the delta between rand and something you're scumreading is more meaningful than it used to be, if you're town, which I am leaning but isn't a given.
I thought it needed clarifying since the last time I remember commenting on your skill was trashing it but now that I think it should have been pretty transparent that I was giving your opinion plenty of weight in chieve f3. So maybe the marker wasn't needed.

[Isis]

Narset does equal Hayasaka, Narset is a pheldagriff type pokemon, it's very complicated

[Isis]

Dannflor has paranoia over my slot which seems towny, but nothing else stands out to me yet.

Hey walter, has your read on my slot progressed since here?

It has, you seem to be a tl towards town.

uh can you give more?

[Isis]

Narset does equal Hayasaka, Narset is a pheldagriff type pokemon, it's very complicated

I thought it was some personal nickname.

to be clear it is a personal nickname in the animu the Hayasaka character is from no one calls her Narset it's just me calling Hayasaka Narset all game to protest how bad the abbreviations look

[Isis]

I guess since the number of creepy baseless townreads on Dann has exceeded 2 I should stop tinfoiling that it necessarily means that Dann rolled scum with baddie partners that don't know how to bloc elegantly

but it can't like, make him

less

likely to be scum, yknow
The Danncharisma is another confounding variable
apocalypse D1 was disgusting

[Isis]

You were Marksman? You? Surely not. There's no way. Oh my. It was so hidden.
ok I can't do any better than that

[Isis]

I also kind of scumread him the more I come around on Hectic, not because "half the 1v1 must be scum" but because I think Hectic is better at mafia than I used to, not sure whether his skill changed or my perception only.

what do you mean by this? I've been playing better here than you're used to so it's towny of me?

No, I mean just before this game started my opinion of you is higher than it was just before, say, Fusion started. So the delta between rand and something you're scumreading is more meaningful than it used to be, if you're town, which I am leaning but isn't a given.
I thought it needed clarifying since the last time I remember commenting on your skill was trashing it but now that I think it should have been pretty transparent that I was giving your opinion plenty of weight in chieve f3. So maybe the marker wasn't needed.

I seeee. Out of interest, what'd you think of my play as Marksman compared to here?

Also, could you explain why you're now leaning towards me being town? I was bottom of your reads on your last list a while ago.

Crossfire was busted for town in a different way from how Purgatory is busted for town, and that was a very different playerlist, so I don't feel surprised that I don't feel like Crossfire tells me much. As an impression, in crossfire I think it seemed like you would very frequently suggest a topic of discussion, and bring something up, and it was generally a topic that would be advantageous for the scumteam if it became the center of attention, irrespective of yea/nay outcome. This game I think you've more frequently been just talking about whatever it was people were talking about which is +town.

My opinion has because your reads match mine more than much of the thread (pivot point would be GC) and when someone seems like they're doing lots of scummy things and also lots of townie things and their reads all match mine I think on balance it's town.
There's also, I joked about townreading me for having fun, but I think I'm at about 4/4 players calling out that aspect of my play as being town, and beyond the blind empiricism it makes sense that it could be town indicative. It looks like the fakest reason ever to townread someone and for the audience of people that don't have that as part of my meta or just don't subscribe it looks like bad pocketing or protecting a partner.
And t looks even worse if I up and say "actually I'm not having that much fun but I wish I was Hectic", which this game at least I think it could be up in the air. I don't think it would actually be damning for a player to be mistaken, but I think scum!you or scum!anyone would think it feels kind of damning and like their read is rendered even faker

[Isis]

now that I think about it it's possible it's 4/5ish and a certain scum may done it I should look

[Isis]

uh oh bad news

[Isis]

but now i'm already confbiased how to fix

[Isis]

Oh I had found someone different doing it, I didn't remember you in particular doing it, now you've really gotten yourself

but now there is the WIFOM about tattling on yourself

Why are you the way that you are?

[Isis]

Are you sure you wouldn't pretend to be an angel for personal gain?

[Isis]

Spoiler: Cthylla who has lied to me

[Isis]

Gisela isn't available on MtGArena actually, they haven't implemented cards as far back as her yet.
I have a really good story about her but Narset is gone which is why everyone's heaven strategy was terrible.
I made legend at Hearthstone this month

[Isis]

I'm having lots of fun this game. I was making a hypothetical earlier

[Isis]

No there has been no agreement! only awful people continuing to equate it with scum!

Gisela is bad because she's an angel, I'm accusing Hectic of being bad.

[Isis]

Hearthstone supports demon as a creature type and simply doesn't have angels, maybe I should convert fully instead of just playing for 1 month until Nissa rotates out of magic standard

pedit: the key part of the climb was a combo deck that freezes all enemy minions every turn starting with turn 9.
The only other time I made legend was before GvG, playing a deck after Undertaker was released in Naxrammas before it was nerfed.
don't use the brown cardbacks they are uggo
use cute sleeves and know the true power is in your hearto

[Isis]

I invented Undertaker Hunter in the opening hours as the patch went live concurrent with it being discovered/invented and felt pretty proud of myself. The consensus way to build it came out like two cards different. I think I wasn't into Wolf Rider and was supposed to be or vice versa.

[Isis]

When I compare Dann to other players in the tone context (Cth, Isis and Hayasaka), I can't feel the same verbal comfort and this is probably what is giving me a difficulty in correctly evaluating his slot (and I was supporting myself more on Hayasaka's reads about him). I would probably need help with it, because the only game we have in common was a short participation and I couldn't absorb much of his towngame.

Do you have Green Crayons in a different tone bucket, or did you just skip/forget him because you've decided he's town?
NGL I want to be such a special snowflake and have my own home bucket but I

guess

Dannflor and Hectic are good company

[Isis]

I still want to townread cythlla, with shaken confidence.

While I didn't crunch things down to a neat sound byte I'm still also surprised about getting that of all questions

[Isis]

Hi Dannflor

[Isis]

What is WIM?

[Isis]

Danfloor you dandelioned away..

[Isis]

clidd is town
walter's reads are uncomfortably lukewarm and surface level
I want to reread Hectic but I'm not bored of HS for the evening this rogue deck is so nutty

[Isis]

it's 7-2 if i lose i can reread hectic
when he is alseep
it's so transgressive heehee

[Isis]

I'm gonna iso

[Isis]

I'm a mean player

[Isis]

I got pyroblasted

[Isis]

I am working on a fun Hectic iso it's in my clipboard pls don't post anything I will be tempted to ctrl c or all will be destroyed

Dannflor were you in scumsman that was the only game I put a gimmick ahead of my wincon

i will cry if you didn't
i'll just cry anyway
that game just makes me cry
it's cry
cry

[Isis]

My "alignment" was "different" as L3 because of the weird jestery thing, I went over that during the game, I really think it is like a 140% town alignment, because of the weird erosion of survivor tells.
An element of that I didn't add on at the time is playing in a rigged faction because I still think FakeGod dance is disgustingly busted for town, unless town does grotesquely suboptimal leaving behaviors to throw, and since that's out of my control it creates a different kind of mindset/framework. So that made me even more carefree
so like i feel like you won't see me play like that again this year unless I roll doublevengeful or something
It's not your only game if I'm not as comfy as magical girls or AvP there's your metric those would be p similar to this setup, especially MG because I think my role felt very VT

[Isis]

The scum count is getting to me too I think I'm going to pretend there is one scum and just solve like that and then act surprised when the game is not over 1-2 time

[Isis]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Historically towns playing this setup that have heavened scum early have won, so you shouldn't be smiley if you're town. That's what I was part of last time.

Does this mean I actually finished a game without you playing in it or spectating it, Hectic?

really ??? that's surprising
is that cuz of flip and associations?
obv heavening town and helling scum is better EV though ...

Getting associatives from the scum you were townreading the most literally never happens in games of mafia. It is very unique. Most people target scummy players with cops. It's easy to underrate and it goes beyond the EV in its value in making a solve
I mean if I didn't have the data I'd think it can't possibly even break even but the data has kind of added up

interesting ! !
i'll pm the mod about this to double check

EE is demonic btw cuz sniping alts is a slight scumtell
just something ez to talk about and demons will care less about the person wanting to keep identity hidden cuz they're not thinking of that they're just thinking of how they look

VOTE: EE

I remember wanting to townread this but not being able to as much as most "wow actually making reads in RVS" just because I know he's got shades of alt/main politics grudges similar to ank.R.I.P and MariaR so instead of it being surprisingly AI for the phase it's still interest in NAI for the phase but it is incidentally AI but that might not be why he's interested

say hello to my minion, destroyer of worlds

Spoiler:

This is such a majestic feline

I don't think we are focusing enough discussion on how amazing Hectic's kitty is

careful now, Miso will devour your soul

Spoiler:

Do you hydra with your cat without the moderator's consent every game like I do? You should.

Norwee + Green Crayons + Isis is the page 5 power solve <: )

Isis you just ignored my question in favour of talking about cards. WHY is your text Purply?

this looks like a fake interaction

This looked designed to make Norwee uncomfortable which is townie. There are separate axes where I assign positive moral value to bullying Norwee but reaction prodding like this is generally good.

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

is this even tru?
when have you misread me other than reservoir dogs

This rubbed me bad
There was a factual discussion later but in a way it's a bit irrelevant.
I don't know that the concept "scum care about being right can't care about being town" should be novel here I think I or Narset have mentioned it this game already.
Gut disliked that Hectic was less interested in how I felt. I mean Cythlla: random aside, I am like, reasonably annoyed Norwee outted Cythlla even though I knew with reasonable certainty just during queue that Cythlla was likely to be Hectic because it's kind of gimmicky and he likes these kinds of setups and he is just 1 or 2 games away from clinching his certainty that it is a good call to blacklist me so he's rly spamming the queues with me kind of like when you are one star from legend yknow
but it would have been fun to play with willing suspension of disbelief/deliberately not paying attention to the last 20% to play the game thinking it might not be Hectic
like I commented in Anon Dance 2 I think my read quality might actually be better not knowing someone's meta in most cases due to trimming biases
like when meta does/would improve my reads, I do use it, I think I wouldn't actually need the main to out, I would pick up some of the same personality profilings even not knowing the main and attach them to the behavior patterns to interpret. I would be less articulate but as accurate or more.
I can't un-out though QQ

Another reads list so early from GC in 625 also feels demonic - he literally just posted one the previous day. It's a demon who's

this

close to being heavened, so is putting in the final bit of effort to get there.

yknow if cythlla's point is just that readslist frequency is scum indicative I kind of agree but I don't know if I can back it up.
It's kind of more natural to do readslists as scum because you have to keep a spreadsheet of what you pretend feelings are

anyway

because if you don't you can lose to "how do you feel about Liliana Vess" "oh she's kind of townish" *150 posts "hey how do you feel about Liliana Vess?" "She's probably scum, if this current wagon flips green we should be looking there." "She literally hasn't posted for four days". So then when you have the spreadsheet anyway it's kind of free to post it and then be colored text and be Dannflor and Ank hides with you but no one figures out the crumb till day 5 but then no one believes it just because contemplating that everyone was bad enough to miss a crumb for days and days is so awful a;ldksjf;aldkjf;ajd

anyway
1 have 1 towngame with GC and there were fewer readslists. But Hectic pointed out last game I played with him it's not a perfect indicator.

You should know Isis memes as town, given you played very recently with her = good take.

I think this was rightness vs. townness vibes again

"Acting" sure about reads isn’t something i’d consider townie at all.

right
you've ignored all i've said and latched onto that
not a good look for you

i haven't acted sure of my reads this game
where do you think i have?

This pinged me because I think using the nagl phrase in this manner just seems to come from scum more often in practice

The thoroughness on my iso is done
I kind of feel like for the most part interpreting cythlla's early posting doesn't come out to a different verdict to me
If it is an effective efficiently costed allied demon slot I think I will determine that from newer posting that's genuinely different.

I don't think rereading recent posting would be as useful

[Isis]

963 is interesting. Morning seems to be implying Hayasaka could've been deceiving us, contrary to her flip saying she was Town. Do we think there could be some demonic (I can't think of an alternative word for demonic, please help if you don't like it, Isis) flip manipulators in this game?

seraphic

[Isis]

Walter has a bunch of posts that seem very off and much more likely to come from scum struggling to post than town, asking questions that don't matter and making surface level reads that can be justified in a basic way but seem unlikely to be the greatest thing a townie got excited about. Norwee has this overall arc of not really doing as much as everyone else all game and sliding into the PoE this phase out of attrition and now he's having some kind of tantrum about that status. Which is possible as town but serves his interests as cornered scum, and definitely can't be townread like solving. Which he fooled my by randomly doing one of the times I town read scumhim so .. confusing.
I think both Norwee and Walter are probably getting helled this game but Walter seems like a safer hell if we want to delay judgment day (which I think we do, but this is a tricky setup so maybe I have that backwards).
I have guilty feelings about Norwee similar to Hectic cause I have some bias towards policy helling him cause he just tricked me twice, but maybe he is just playing his towngame this game and the stuff I was townreading during heaven1 is cause he's just town. But this is a townsided setup where I can mishell him and still win pretty easily so I feel like maybe I'm more careless.

I would be voting Walter but I want GC participation this phase

[Isis]

Dannflor if Norwee and Walter had three stacks of Loved today who would you vote

[Isis]

Did you mix up loved with hated? Thank you though

[Isis]

Loved

[Isis]

3 stacks of loved is enough that player would have to self vote to achieve their hell.

I was asking who else you scumread outside those two
X_X

[Isis]

posts about Miso are the most alignment indicative, that's why I've been insisting on more of them all game

[Isis]

Miso deserves the softest lil bed

[Isis]

If you mean do I also want to heaven the towniest person possible in heaven2 like Dann says, I do.
Isis>clidd>other people

[Isis]

Spoiler: We are all sinners in the hands of an angry god

[Isis]

I don't think Hectic is lhf in any of his games tbf

[Isis]

??

[Isis]

low hanging fruit is an english idiom but the way it's used very frequently in mafia kind of makes it a mafia specific term.

people use it to mean that in one particular game, a certain player seems like the easiest person to wagon in that moment. People don't usually call other people LHF with the suggestion they're vulnerable game after game.
But I'm stating the opposite position that I think Hectic is easiest to wagon less often than the average player. Even in Fusion mafia it took extra days for it to be happen.
I am LHF pretty often, it is not very hard at all to construe some of my idiosyncracies as scummy to one or two players in any playerlist and that's like all it takes?

[Isis]

that is good whiskers

[Isis]

GC did you consider 1148 to be a serious post

[Isis]

It is not a serious suggestion. Because Hectic posted it I know that it is not. If a 1 month join date posted it maybe I would consider that it's possibly a serious suggestion. Have you played with Hectic ever?

[Isis]

I have been aware that your style of humor either doesn't exist or is unique since nightless vanilla
I just never expected to see it litigated lol

[Isis]

It's funny to accuse mods of bastard modding, proportional to how likely they are to be a good mod. Last I modded for Hectic he insisted I left a breadcrumb trail revealing the entire scumteam in the stray characters in the votecount. He also quoted one of my posts and editted it to be a public confirmation of a slot's alignment.

[Isis]

humor is based on subverted expectations and I expect tweet to mod well. Does that make sense?

I'm garciaing because making people explain their own jokes is sad. it kills the magic to ever admit you were joking about something.

[Isis]

do you guys wanna help me with my puzzle game

[Isis]

Spoiler:

I need to make this pattern quickly to outscore 97% of players

can you like, pretend you're looking at clouds and seeing shapes

And figure out a shape for me to think of this as
so I can make it faster?

It is the optimal match3 board for 15 black orbs and 15 white orbs.
it matches every single orb, but it does so in so many chain steps that the above orbs that fall in are more likely to link with eachother because they jiggle around during each step

[Isis]

i'm not coloring this text because GC is also invited to help meee

[Isis]

I think you probably love games about nurturing dragon pets by matching colors in a puzzle so please help me gc

[Isis]

Three or more of the same color in an orthogonal row is a match that will be removed from the board. Then the other orbs will fall down to take their place

[Isis]

I want to townlock Walter for helping me with my puzzle even though I think he understands the rules only a little better than Dannflor.

I didn't explain them well.

[Isis]

Yeah you can move as much as you need to.

And I was showing the correct board and asking about mnemonics are ways to look at it like a picture and remember what the shape will be. Because it's already the best solve, it's been simulated to have the best luck for orbs that fall from above

[Isis]

i think it looks a little like a donkey

[Isis]

I don't think anyone is slamdunkscum. Is it better hell a consensussy slot and let Narset make spicy takes, or to hell a spicy take and let Narset vote consensus?
Unless I'm thinking about it backwards I think we're kind of playing down a player if we don't do the first one. So we should flip walter or Norwee. VOTE: Walter
He still isn't posting anything that distinctly comes from a town perspective, I think someone used the word emulable before.

Dann, GC, and Cyth are all large quantities of scumping and large quantities of townping kind of slots for me and if Rosalina is a genuine teacher that might mean they have a lot of town and Walter and Norwee are just scum together so only one of those three is actually scum

[Isis]

I don't think the lack of votes on Walter this day phase is necessarily indicative of his alignment. Personally, I've withheld my vote thus far despite my resolve staying mostly the same (Norwee has tempted me) because I wanted time for both Walter to post/spew and GC to catch up without worry that the day will end via quickhammer. I think Isis expressed a similar sentiment. While there could be other reasons for the relatively slow momentum on Walter, I think what I stated at least partially explains that.

There's a possibility that Walter is town and scum is hesitant to "dirty their hands" so to speak on a wagon that could be viewed as LHF. But, I'm rather skeptical of that given I'd expect at least one TMI town read half-way defending Walter for cred if that were truly the case. Instead, every player in the game has shaded or pushed Walter to some degree (Norwee being somewhat of an exception but also not really).

This creeps me out a little bit

You had posts that were after "I guess this is all GC is gonna give us lol" where you could have voted. Then you post these defensible reasons for delaying voting. Then you vote Walter anyway.
I don't remember if I voted in a similar pattern or not, car oil. It looks too uncomfortable with how your vote restraint is getting perceived.

I'm probably not going to tinfoil you solely on this, I'm probably going to read in my own iso during postgame and cry about it, because your later posts seem towny.

[Isis]

those are tentacles not needles