Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[tris]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

i was mostly annoyed about the not answering and stuff.

[Gamma Emerald]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

each night that we PM the "I do" it happens

Can it work on more than 1 person?

it works with the people i've neighborized

Is that a yes? I’m gonna assume that’s a yes unless told otherwise

[Gamma Emerald]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

And what motive does scum!FL have to kill Amy here - a slot that was hard townreading him and also a slot that he had damn good reason to have no fear from her N2 NAs?

~M

When I was reading Amphy’s ISO determining who’d have motive to kill Amphy I noticed FL was pretty much the first suspect after the main PoE Amphy had

[Gamma Emerald]

Wrt to FL’s Gamma rb, if he seriously still thinks FL is scum and locktowns jjh maybe his being rb’d isn’t a terrible idea, not because I necessarily think he’s scum but because I think his reads on FL/jjh are wrong, so I dunno if we can actually count on him to do what I’m suggesting. It would be awesome if I could though but I think he needs to wake tf up first and see that FL is never scum here.

~M

You think jjh is scum? I have been struggling to think who might be scum with Tris outside of FL, since scum Haya makes 0 sense, BEF is pretty well cleared on interactions plus his posting D2+ is rather towny, KD very likely isn’t it because of D&D interactions, I don’t think you’re scum with D&D, so the only real thing left is jjh and at this point I’ve been thinking his crier messages are a town thing.
So I’m thinking you might be right but I don’t see how rn.

What are you suggesting btw?

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

FL has hardclaimed a 3p role that would be encouraged to scumside, which hints heavily at a 2 man scumteam anyway

That’s actually possible and would make the most sense, because the only player who has clear scum equity is Tris. However, wouldn’t Tris scumflip make his role more likely to be town? Jester is not like SK though. So as long as Tris flips scum, wouldn’t the game then end based off of what you’re suggesting? And why does jester!FL insist that Hya will gladiate him D4, right after very briefly st him? Yes it appears to be blatantly jestery but I can definitely see clear town motivation in that and he did that right after Hya’s FL’s saving the town comment and that is really the only time he has done anything blatantly jestery. So sure it’s possible but based off of play, very unlikely, so I apologize if I’m wrongly sr you here. FL clearly isn’t buddies with DnD and if his role is real, clearly not with Tris.

Only one kill per night would mean if FL is a 3P, it’s definitely not a killing role, so if your two-man scumteam theory is accurate and Tris flips scum, wouldn’t we still win? Jester is never a scum role and so long as this game literally isn’t bastard, we don’t lose even if he’s actually jester.

~M

[jjh927]

FL has hardclaimed a 3p role that would be encouraged to scumside, which hints heavily at a 2 man scumteam anyway

That’s actually possible and would make the most sense, because the only player who has clear scum equity is Tris. However, wouldn’t Tris scumflip make his role more likely to be town? Jester is not like SK though. So as long as Tris flips scum, wouldn’t the game then end based off of what you’re suggesting? And why does jester!FL insist that Hya will gladiate him D4, right after very briefly st him? Yes it appears to be blatantly jestery but I can definitely see clear town motivation in that and he did that right after Hya’s FL’s saving the town comment and that is really the only time he has done anything blatantly jestery. So sure it’s possible but based off of play, very unlikely, so I apologize if I’m wrongly sr you here. FL clearly isn’t buddies with DnD and if his role is real, clearly not with Tris.

Only one kill per night would mean if FL is a 3P, it’s definitely not a killing role, so if your two-man scumteam theory is accurate and Tris flips scum, wouldn’t we still win? Jester is never a scum role and so long as this game literally isn’t bastard, we don’t lose even if he’s actually jester.

~M

Yes, the game will end after Tris dies if I am correct and I think you're all way overthinking it considering what we know right now

[tris]

If they’re strongman, they can, but I’m leaning more towards GammaTown lately anyways

oh, this is a good point. but, it's coming from flavor leaf...

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Wrt to FL’s Gamma rb, if he seriously still thinks FL is scum and locktowns jjh maybe his being rb’d isn’t a terrible idea, not because I necessarily think he’s scum but because I think his reads on FL/jjh are wrong, so I dunno if we can actually count on him to do what I’m suggesting. It would be awesome if I could though but I think he needs to wake tf up first and see that FL is never scum here.

~M

You think jjh is scum? I have been struggling to think who might be scum with Tris outside of FL, since scum Haya makes 0 sense, BEF is pretty well cleared on interactions plus his posting D2+ is rather towny, KD very likely isn’t it because of D&D interactions, I don’t think you’re scum with D&D, so the only real thing left is jjh and at this point I’ve been thinking his crier messages are a town thing.
So I’m thinking you might be right but I don’t see how rn.

What are you suggesting btw?

Jjh is positing 2 man scumteam, so unless the game is bastard, we still win if we hit scum today. I don’t think FL is jester ftr. I dunno, I’ve been working off a 3 person scumteam and FL doesn’t fit with that. I agree with your reads, so I think I’m definitely right about Tris being faded makes the most sense.

I couldn’t think clearly when I was tilted but yeah. everything you say about your role actually does fit, especially the devil flavour due to Amy flip and Tris claiming the same flavour, so I think my initial doppelgänger scum theory makes a lot of sense based off of that.

My paranoia on jjh has to do with whatever his odd night Arcana thing is. He just claimed it isn’t an investigative, so I don’t know what other possible type of role fits with Arcana. His N2 post made me think he’s an odd night Arcana role cop, because how else can he prove FL’s role is real or not? but now he’s saying it’s not an investigative, so I have no clue what to make of that. And an odd night Arcana role cop sounds kind of odd with an ungated flipped investigative Arcana cop.

I still think it odd that Pooky was specifically referenced and died that night but Idk. @jjh I meant that if you were scum and FL died, it would be an extremely strange coincidence that you highlighted both of them in your crier messages. I still don’t understand how anyone reading DnD/Pooky interactions gets Pooky scum from that. Also @jjh when did your read change from a 3 person scumteam to 2? Thanks.

~M

[tris]

Actually, I guess BEF/Gamma is a possibility

Why does scum!BEF ever roleblock Gamma in the first place? Wouldn’t he have rb’d Hya. Amy or me > Gamma?

well in that scenario, it's a fake claim.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

FL has hardclaimed a 3p role that would be encouraged to scumside, which hints heavily at a 2 man scumteam anyway

That’s actually possible and would make the most sense, because the only player who has clear scum equity is Tris. However, wouldn’t Tris scumflip make his role more likely to be town? Jester is not like SK though. So as long as Tris flips scum, wouldn’t the game then end based off of what you’re suggesting? And why does jester!FL insist that Hya will gladiate him D4, right after very briefly st him? Yes it appears to be blatantly jestery but I can definitely see clear town motivation in that and he did that right after Hya’s FL’s saving the town comment and that is really the only time he has done anything blatantly jestery. So sure it’s possible but based off of play, very unlikely, so I apologize if I’m wrongly sr you here. FL clearly isn’t buddies with DnD and if his role is real, clearly not with Tris.

Only one kill per night would mean if FL is a 3P, it’s definitely not a killing role, so if your two-man scumteam theory is accurate and Tris flips scum, wouldn’t we still win? Jester is never a scum role and so long as this game literally isn’t bastard, we don’t lose even if he’s actually jester.

~M

Yes, the game will end after Tris dies if I am correct and I think you're all way overthinking it considering what we know right now

Probably right and FL’s reactions to that really don’t make sense as jester. He’s acting too townie to be jester imo. His dead chat also really doesn’t fit with that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Ahh jjh, rolled scum again, didn't ya?

-Pluto

Nope

Actually very pleased with my role PM

What do you think is my favourite type of role

Auro posted that and I have no clue.

~M

[tris]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

Strong FOS on 657. When do you ever vote with your scumreads or rather vote your sr’s PoE?

~M

it's fucking day 1 at that point. and it wasn't quite a scumread yet. and i didn't townread you yet either so it would have been the same thing if i had voted DND.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

also, what if he thought she was a protective role and wanted to get rid of that?

What reason would he have to think that?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

Who do you think is scum if NM flips red and who, if he flips green?

~M

he better flip red, because otherwise i'm townreading way too much. I haven't really considered that world that much.

If he flips green, then maybe Gamma? that's mostly because i've forgotten about why i was townreading him. And my reasons for townreading others feel firmer. oh and there's also jjh. i still need to go reread gamma as well as others but i'm mostly waiting on the flip before i do that.

all of that was kind of ignoring FL, which i have a tendency to do because he makes my brain hurt sometimes, but also, i know some ways he might be confirmed, so i'm not worrying about that too much. although, i am a little suspicious of the claim.

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

So what happened between now and then to make FL’s role any less confirmable to you?

~M

if he IS a jester, he has no motive to confirm himself, so that's not helpful anymore

He probably isn’t but I’d 100% buy that over scum. His interactions with DnD aren’t partnery.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hey, @Tris, any chance you could give us a current readslist of yours? Is FL your only scumread? Anyone else you’re suspicious of and why?

Also, can you think of anyone who had more reason to kill Amy than you? because based off of both Hya Amy track as well as Amy ISO, you clearly have the most Amy kill equity here.

Thanks to BEF we know you couldn’t have been bus driven so Gamma’s 100% clear and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

So, if both Gamma and FL are off the table, you do you think we should fade today if not you?

~M

And they both should damn well be off of the table today, because fading either one is very likely gamethrowing.

If I have to restate why: Gamma is cleared from killing Amy and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

~M

oh i guess we shouldn't do gamma

Plus, all indications point to DnD working overtime to set him up to look like a buddy. If Gamma were a DnD buddy, how would scum!DnD not realize how badly they’re berating BEF for multiple posts makes Gamma look? They wanted us to think Gamma was a buddy, like it’s so blatantly obvious and had I not been so upset, I definitely would have realized that.

~M

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

i was mostly annoyed about the not answering and stuff.

Mehhhh, I honestly don’t see why town!you/town!anyone even pursues such a ridiculous line of questioning, not to mention you just completely deflected my point - the you were voting one of your claimed PoE’s scumreads.

~M

[tris]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

each night that we PM the "I do" it happens

Can it work on more than 1 person?

it works with the people i've neighborized

Is that a yes? I’m gonna assume that’s a yes unless told otherwise

yes

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

And what motive does scum!FL have to kill Amy here - a slot that was hard townreading him and also a slot that he had damn good reason to have no fear from her N2 NAs?

~M

When I was reading Amphy’s ISO determining who’d have motive to kill Amphy I noticed FL was pretty much the first suspect after the main PoE Amphy had

Yeah but Amy’s post about the dead chat makes her a terrible kill for scum!FL but she was clearly a threat to Tris and that’s completely ignoring Hya’s Tris Amy track as self-redirector. I’m also not buying Tris’ claiming “annoyance” about us not answering a really pointless question plus her obviously deflection from my point about it being scummy for her to be voting her Poe’s scumreads.

I think Tris is very likely flipping scum and the clearest highest scum equity of anyone else in the entire game.

~M

[tris]

FL has hardclaimed a 3p role that would be encouraged to scumside, which hints heavily at a 2 man scumteam anyway

That’s actually possible and would make the most sense, because the only player who has clear scum equity is Tris. However, wouldn’t Tris scumflip make his role more likely to be town? Jester is not like SK though. So as long as Tris flips scum, wouldn’t the game then end based off of what you’re suggesting? And why does jester!FL insist that Hya will gladiate him D4, right after very briefly st him? Yes it appears to be blatantly jestery but I can definitely see clear town motivation in that and he did that right after Hya’s FL’s saving the town comment and that is really the only time he has done anything blatantly jestery. So sure it’s possible but based off of play, very unlikely, so I apologize if I’m wrongly sr you here. FL clearly isn’t buddies with DnD and if his role is real, clearly not with Tris.

Only one kill per night would mean if FL is a 3P, it’s definitely not a killing role, so if your two-man scumteam theory is accurate and Tris flips scum, wouldn’t we still win? Jester is never a scum role and so long as this game literally isn’t bastard, we don’t lose even if he’s actually jester.

~M

Yes, the game will end after Tris dies if I am correct and I think you're all way overthinking it considering what we know right now

Probably right and FL’s reactions to that really don’t make sense as jester. He’s acting too townie to be jester imo. His dead chat also really doesn’t fit with that.

~M

so, why did he claim jester then?

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

FL has hardclaimed a 3p role that would be encouraged to scumside, which hints heavily at a 2 man scumteam anyway

That’s actually possible and would make the most sense, because the only player who has clear scum equity is Tris. However, wouldn’t Tris scumflip make his role more likely to be town? Jester is not like SK though. So as long as Tris flips scum, wouldn’t the game then end based off of what you’re suggesting? And why does jester!FL insist that Hya will gladiate him D4, right after very briefly st him? Yes it appears to be blatantly jestery but I can definitely see clear town motivation in that and he did that right after Hya’s FL’s saving the town comment and that is really the only time he has done anything blatantly jestery. So sure it’s possible but based off of play, very unlikely, so I apologize if I’m wrongly sr you here. FL clearly isn’t buddies with DnD and if his role is real, clearly not with Tris.

Only one kill per night would mean if FL is a 3P, it’s definitely not a killing role, so if your two-man scumteam theory is accurate and Tris flips scum, wouldn’t we still win? Jester is never a scum role and so long as this game literally isn’t bastard, we don’t lose even if he’s actually jester.

~M

Yes, the game will end after Tris dies if I am correct and I think you're all way overthinking it considering what we know right now

Probably right and FL’s reactions to that really don’t make sense as jester. He’s acting too townie to be jester imo. His dead chat also really doesn’t fit with that.

~M

so, why did he claim jester then?

Do jesters usually claim jester and are you now switching your read on him from scum to jester? Because if so, you definitely shouldn’t be pushing him in that case.

And like I said, he’s either town or jester not scum, so no good reason to vote him in either case.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Is it possible your game has any of the following bastard roles or mechanics?

There might be some unique/odd roles but nothing bastard

What this means that whether or not FL is town or jester, we can’t lose because of him.

~M

[Gamma Emerald]

How would he make us lose if we didn’t vote him?

[Kaname Date]

i have a few problems with jjh. his read on FL especially, where he goes from being suspicious of FL and then saying he's reevaluated and that this is probably town FL, with no explanation besides that he agrees with FL that if FL were scum, jjh would have been nightkilled.

i'm just not seeing the solving he's promised. his only SR is tris and it's based off the idea that Ampharos could never have been the nightkill.

i see Gamma's reasoning for townreading jjh, but what's stopping scum jjh from making that "Pooky might be scum" crier message with the knowledge that Pooky is going down that night?

[Kaname Date]

FL is provable, i TR Gamma (and it looks like Mars has done some digging about that, which i've looked at a bit but should do more of.)
Hayasaka and Fish i still TR, and frankly i trust my past self on those with nothing to indicate i shouldn't.

so, jjh or tris, are left as the two players i'm fine to eliminate, but more examination of jjh in general would make me very happy.

[Kaname Date]

You hear something in the middle of the night:

My inactivity is a ruse! Silencing me before I give detailed reads would be useful information

tris, KD, GE, Hayasaka, Amy, VMP, Fish town

Pooky scum unless good mechanics clear behaviour. DP maybe scum- sometimes it's that easy
I don't try to read NM or FL. Lynch if no better options

Note: Hierophant

You hear something in the middle of the night:

Crier message:

Okay I guess I need to put effort into this game now

I'll figure some shit out after the flip tbh

Got nothing from my action N1.

If I die, expect my contribution D4 via FL. This should come along with identifying information that proves his role. Proof of role doesn't mean town, though. Be cautious.

It would totally not have shocked me based off of this, if Amy saved FL last night. Can someone tell me what exactly about crier + some kind of Arcana invest enable jjh to be able to prove FL’s role here? More like, FL’s role + alignment will be proven when he’s pushing up daisies.

~M

@FL, what do you think of this? Pooky was specifically mentioned N1 and he’s dead and you were specifically mentioned N2. Coincidence?

~M

i just got to this post where Mars suggests Amy may have saved FL from tris/jjh dream team. i'm not sure if scum jjh tries this twice because someone would notice, if FL had actually died here, that the crier messages had expressed suspicion on the nightkill twice. Nancy noticed and FL didn't even die.

i do think it could have happened n1, however.