Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[Datisi]

VOTE: iconuem

let's sort this out early, shall we?

[Datisi]

why is this game not 15 pages yet

where is dragon

[Datisi]

mizzy, do you not remember me?

[Datisi]

Why do you wanna sort Iconeum early - does he have a reputation?

you could say that he does, yeah

[Datisi]

mizzy, do you not remember me?

Who the fuck are you?

i don't remember speaking to you...?

[Datisi]

was 31 a joke?

[Datisi]

well no, but in 31 you seem to think that gamma is scummy, then at 46 you don't anymore, and gamma hasn't posted inbetween those two posts, so...

[Datisi]

jokes are funny.

[Datisi]

mizzy can be my first townlean

[Datisi]

VOTE: tris

choo choo

[Datisi]

mizzy can be my first townlean

you don't think scum could be confused by that?

sure can, that's not why i think they're >rand town

their posts so far give me a genuine vibe

[Datisi]

zzz i don't feel like playing mafia today but i see i'm almost due a prod so:

- my vote on tris wasn't serious at first and i am brushing off the whole joke/non-joke thing as weird NAI banter, but i actively dislike 99, the "oh you're scum and you know they're town" just feels like a very shady and frankly dumb argument
- testa is reminding me of them the last game we played together so +town
- i am somewhat amused how multiple people reacted to my 51 the same way
- i like sircakez for 102
- echovision is starting to get on my nerves but i don't think it's AI (yet)
- where the fuck is ico

[Datisi]

right, this is a game that exists.

- my vote on tris wasn't serious at first and i am brushing off the whole joke/non-joke thing as weird NAI banter, but i actively dislike 99, the "oh you're scum and you know they're town" just feels like a very shady and frankly dumb argument

the first part of your sentence there is actually +town for me. I like how you decided to made a vote just to engage in the wagon. seems like a town thing to do.
the second part: what's so shady about that? it seemed like a stretch to me that mizzy's posts indicated town in any way. it made me think you might be biased by the fact that you already know they're town. you could even be scum fabricating a town read on a partner. either way, the bottom line is, the townread felt contrived.

i'm not sure what you mean by the first bit, what is supposed to be +town for you? the joke/non-joke thing? also, i kinda get the feeling that the "seems like a town thing to do" ws sarcastic, am i right?

iunno, it's just the "early reads seem tmi" is kinda like a pretty easy stance to take, especially since you didn't bother to ask me anything about it. if i told you that giving early reads is actually +town for me, does that change you opinion in any way?

- testa is reminding me of them the last game we played together so +town

Huh, ok. Last time you were troubling with placing me on either side and were more leaning town on me for effort while I got scumread later by others for waffling, being hedgy etc. While I am a connoisseur of waffles, I don't think I have been like that here so far. Why do I remind you of my town game and am less likely to be scum?

/shrug, your posts seemed enough effort which reminded me of the other game. though i'm not sure why you're bringing up waffling? i wasn't townreding you for that at any point, was i?

[Datisi]

you aren't using your words so either you are scum that's pretending like they are doing things by throwing down a forceful naked vote or you are massively unhelpful town.

is this a meta read on gamma or like a "general tell"?

can you elaborate how you got the list of people in 140?

[Datisi]

/shrug, your posts seemed enough effort which reminded me of the other game. though i'm not sure why you're bringing up waffling? i wasn't townreding you for that at any point, was i?

Ah, fair enough. No you weren't, people usually scumread me for that. I might have mistaken you with someone else then, maybe Andres? Doesn't matter anyway, the point is more that I feel the town points came a bit too easy for my liking. If it's just the effort, very well, might give it a pass, although I don't think this is a reliable tell.

hmm, mind talking about this a bit more? like, if you think the townpoints came too easy, and you also don't think efforting is a reliable tell for you... why are you giving me a pass?

[Datisi]

re tris 163:
maybe criticizing is an indirect way of asking about it, but the tone of "i don't see it, maybe you're scum tmi'ing" didn't sound interrogatory to me but maybe i'm projecting
though it's funny since i don't think i *can* explain it further than "37 and 53 are gut +town to me"

hi ico

184 ~ someone not named datisi? townreading iconeum??? on early day one?????

gamma/tris/testa are early townreads

alchemist and vision… not so much

why are gamma and testa town?

i don't wann vote tris anymore and this is where i'd jump on the alchemist train but that would put him on E-1 and that is Bad

VOTE: echovision hi can you explain your ico/una townreads please

[Datisi]

You think it's likely for scum to lolhammer at this point of D1?

likely? no. plausible enough that i don't want to risk it when there's basically no reward? yes.

And even if they did, you think they'd get away with it?

they might not get out of rope tomorrow, but i don't fancy risking losing an entire day's worth of information. besides, if they hammered a bit later, they could pretend they were putting them on L-1, didn't see my vote, etc etc, and *could* get away with it. thanks no thanks.

[Datisi]

re testa and gamma: both for somewhat the reasons

gamma feels solvey and uncommitted at this point, while giving thoughts
tris as well, but has the added benefit of sharing my thoughts (rather, me sharing hers) wrt alch

i was actually wondering more about testa rather than tris, i think i'm walking back on tris

do you think 159/162 were in bad faith? that's what they pinged me as, if that is a misrep of you in that game

[Datisi]

yeah i figured that was what you were referencing back there

i didn't think that's scum indicative for alch but i also didn't think that was scum indicative for vp and oops

[Datisi]

i don't feel that scum are gonna defend a buddy here in this way,

and scum are also not gonna stop someone from scumreading someone else if you know what i mean

i like... extremely disagree with this, especially this early game

unless there's a lolhammer or a literal scumslip, the first wagon of the day very rarely actually goes through and gets executed

i don't think defending such a wagon on page 3 is not town!indicative?

[Datisi]

I'm actully town reading you for a pretty silly reason but eh.

can you share with the class?

But what kind of scum ploy would it be to just not post at game start? Eventually you'll have to anyways.

I mean yeah, maybe it's not great reasoning but its the way I feel/felt.

obligatory "i've played/modded three bajillion game with/for ico" disclamer, he can be "more lurky" as scum but he never outright *doesn't post* so i'm pretty sure this is NAI

(i actually have a convoluted tinfoil theory on why the non-posting for the first 2-3 days is actually town!indicative but eh)

i feel like nero is +town because mindmelding (217/229) and while i'm aware his post came after mine, it doesn't strike me as a likely pocket attemp or something

nero, do you have a track record of reading alchemist?

[Datisi]

echo you could answer the question i asked you about your reads

[Datisi]

you were just... randomly calling people town?

also i feel obligated to point out that of you're town, the odds of a random other player also being town are 8/11, not 9/12

i don't think this is a legit scumslip but i could be persuaded otherwise

[Datisi]

there's a 75% chance that the two i named town are town and those are some pretty good odds

actually this is even worse math because odds aren't the same for two people because odds multiply but asjdks math

[Datisi]

alchemist otoh uses logic like the one VP used to defend his buddy npow - yeah i scumread that

May I see the context for this?

mini 2157:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

i will tell you that a while ago, when i was less experienced, i made it my job as scum to try and force the game out of RVS asap to gain the juicy town credit associated with that. Or at least, I believed it was.

If you have meta evidence suggesting this is town!NPOW, i'm not opposed to hearing that.

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did.

Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game

. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

how are you coming to a scum!Icon conclusion when i'm standing in front of everyone, clearly not afraid to speak out and DEFINITELY not afraid of drawing attention?
when you just say scum are likely NOT to do this?

VOTE: VP

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

...wait, hang on. You're saying that he was miseliminated by an all-town wagon, with scum just sitting back and letting it happen, in a previous game.

And you also think Iconeum is scum for scumreading him, when you've just established that town have scumread him previously.

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

also what this dude said

ur writing a lot, but your conclusions don't make sense which means you are probably faking this

[Datisi]

how tf is that post a townslip?

[Datisi]

oh right lol

[Datisi]

i didn't say i agreed with it making him town, quite the opposite

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point.

?

[Datisi]

this kinda angsty angry post is sorta what I associate with newb town and remember of you. Hey I said it was silly.

on site for almost a year and a half, getting called newbtown... have we played together before?

[Datisi]

And I definitely like Datisi.

what have i done to deserve the honours?

Ico has smart words. Bit anxious about that slot just cos of Datisi's attitude early.

i think you might have misunderstood what i meant when i said that he has a "reputation"... did you take it to mean he's a strong/dangerous scum player? (*cough* not saying he's not *cough* ico pls don't yell at me)

[Datisi]

ye don't worry about it, we're not in a rush

I read it as probably meaning Ico warps games that he is in around him. Competence, or just being loud and unpredictable enough it's hard to read. I think you're right I may have misunderstood you

what i meant is that he often gets heavily scumread at the beginning of games, while i'm usually the only person that knows about his playstyle and that has to keep yelling how "this thing or that thing is not scum indicative for ico, please stop tunnelling him, we're wasting our time". i didn't wanna say anything at the time though since self-fullfilling prophercies, setting stuff up, etc.

[Datisi]

this kinda angsty angry post is sorta what I associate with newb town and remember of you. Hey I said it was silly.

on site for almost a year and a half, getting called newbtown... have we played together before?

i don't like how you have so much feeling in your posts but i guess it tags a little more as town than scum

i read your further explaination but like what lol
if you think *those* posts are emotionally charged idk what to tell you

where did you get a feeling of frustration or anger from me so far?

echoing (haha) why is testa scummy to you etc

zzz i'll think harder about this game in the morning

oh also i have a tinfoil crackpot theory about someone here i'll share it later remind me

[Datisi]

you got upset cause someone called you newbtown and had a passive aggressive, emotionally charged remark

on site for almost a year and a half, getting called newbtown...

lol wut

this

is where you voted me in the first place, which doesn't seem like it was because you scum read me (at the time)
you were just jumpin around and happened to find something that you liked, because i didn't answer your question the way you wanted me to

ye pretty much, preferred vote at the time had too many votes and i don't like unvoting without voting

you were just... randomly calling people town?

also i feel obligated to point out that of you're town, the odds of a random other player also being town are 8/11, not 9/12

i don't think this is a legit scumslip

but i could be persuaded otherwise

oh and then you thought i was scum because of my fantastic statistics

mind you, they were statistics that you said the bolded but go off

i didn't think you were scum because of "statistics", i just couldn't sleep at night if i didn't call that out

echovision why are you voting testa i wanna know

[Datisi]

i'd love to see an EV wagon

VOTE: echovision

@mod i think ico is voting ev not testa

[Datisi]

ok it's past midnihgt and i'm dead and i don't have anything intelligent to offer (i will get to that tomorrow i *promise*) however i wanna share the tinfoil cracktheory becaue i once again don't think i could sleep without sharing it this game day

i keep going between "this is dumb as shit" and "this is REALLY dumb as shit" in my head but whatever

please imagine the guy pointing at butterfly meme

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point.

I'm clearly scum that slipped.

is this a traitor?

[Datisi]

ico why are you still voting echo, i thought you liked some of their recent posts

[Datisi]

i'm not, but in the same breath you talk about liking recent posts from echo and not liking recent posts from gamma, so i kinda Assumed Things

do you have any hot takes for me pls i can't get into this game

[Datisi]

i remember thinking they were tonally townie early

now they're probably back to null considering their last posts were vague opinions on things but no elaboration

[Datisi]

what do you think of gamma's pressure on me? his case in general?

if we flopped echo on the spot, red or green?

thoughts on tris?

i know i didn't like some of his early posts wrt you, and ngl I've been glazing over his posts, i should probably reread that iso once i get more coffee

uhhhhhh
red???

tris is like probably town? their tone reads awkward to me but i am not sure if that's just the way they speak and I remember liking some of their takes, also like last two times someone thought my reads were tmi they were town so lol

i don't think you're necessarily wrong townreading testa but i forgot why that is, can you remind/link pls

[Datisi]

my uneducated guess for scum team is mizzy, cakes, testa
that's all for me folks see you later

like

gamma instead of testa and… profit?

are you scumreading sirofthecakez
why are you if you're doing so

also i don't think you've mentioned me outside of directly speaking to me at all, do you have an Opinion

[Datisi]

i don't know if it helps

i realized like... an hour or so ago that my play in this game has been p shite

and i'm kind of? concerned? you're not calling it out?

[Datisi]

i'm not surprised you're not pushing your nullreads, i'm concerned you're nullreading me as opposed to scumreading me

[Datisi]

zzz i felt like i've done close to nothing this day one and was about to catch you trying to pocket me but 471 was enough to change my mind, fuckin hell i have no backbone

Day ends in 2 days, 9 hours, 9 minutes

ok ok i will goddamn reread gamma today

or maybe i'll pretend to reread him and just sheep someone for the time being

either one

[Datisi]

ughhh i hate echo's posts on page 18, it just reads trying so hard to be the "haha quirky townie look i'm solving but if you execute me i don't care haha it's on you"

re testa and gamma: both for somewhat the reasons

gamma feels solvey and uncommitted at this point, while giving thoughts

i don't think or feel that gamma's posts were in bad faith - i'd not have a townlean on them if i did

Don't like gamma. Keeps pushing me for not being here early game is... fishy.

ico can you explain this progression to me pls

[Datisi]

hi skitter!!

i read your thoughts on me and i feel obligated to defend myself by saying that in the game i recently modded, there was a lolhammer like 24 hours in which did Wonders for town (ico can confirm)

also if we were to go by my super secret way of reading skitter, she's town

@ico can you pls answer 474

a more substantial post probably later

[Datisi]

i mean like... the Nuance and Reasons behind it lol

[Datisi]

I think I am finally getting first town vibes from Datisi. Kind of liked their recent interactions with Ico, also I share his "hesitation" about Ico (unless I misinterpret here lol). Although I am not really sure why Ico should be scumreading him instead of being null at him?

the difference between my scum and towngames is that as town i don't have to "think" of what to post, posts just come naturally while as scum that doesn't happen
however, in uninvested towngames, posts also don't come to me naturally
i was thinking ico should be picking up on that but i guess it's not the first game where i'm having trouble getting into it so lol

i am also also interested in what you're seeing in me tho
how much do you rely on meta with people you've played with before?

i keep thinking mizzy's posts are good for them and then i remember that i'm in that slot

i know this is like... weird but can you give me tldr of what you liked about mizzy's posts back there?

why is ev voting skitter
why is ev doing anything
like i don't like saying pl but at some point if a slot is unreadable i'm gonna be saying pl

Skitter30 is replacing mizzytasic. The game clock is restarting

Live footage from scum PT, probably:

weren't you kinda sorta scumreading mizzy and now you're saying rhey were town
scumconeum confirmed ggez

i was probably gonna vote gamma but then skitter jumps in saying she thinks gamma is towny and i Think skitter might be town so
skitt can you talk a bit about that

[Datisi]

well ye that's why i said kinda sorta

you had them in the weird poe thing but i don't think it was an actual scumread

[Datisi]

my uneducated guess for scum team is mizzy, cakes, testa
that's all for me folks see you later

like

gamma instead of testa and… profit?

i took this as "not townreading maybe kinda scumreading" in order to make that joke

if you think my "scumconeum confirmed ggez" comment is actually genuinely me giving you crap about it... datisi, have we met?

[Datisi]

i mean, if we don't have a 5-page long argument of "ur scum" "no ur scum" that everyone rolls their eyes at, are we even playing mafia

[Datisi]

i'm kinda annoyed because when i was reading the early early game i thought "hmm i think there might be a scum between gamma/tris, they're acting kinda awkward"

but then skitter comes in and starts townreading them both

and usually if my reads are ass backwards to skitt's, that means she's town and i'm wrong

zzz i feel like every game i play i'm half as good as i was in the last one

if i even was any good to begin with

[Datisi]

ico, skitt town
tris, testa, sircakez like, probably town
alch/gamma have scum unless ico flips scum
echovision can die

[Datisi]

if History holds up (and she's town) she has 1 correct early scum read (echo?) and then will tunnel town the rest of the game. I'm not so hot on your "and usually if my reads are ass backwards to skitt's,

that means she's town

and i'm wrong." Why are you wrong? What if she's wrong? What if she's just a Gamma buddy, which seems like a possibility to me?

i was just saying what's historically happened, in every game that skitt and i have been t/t, (1) i at least at some point thought she was scum and wanted to vote her, (2) our reads were completely different, with hers being much more accurate than mine. (and in one game where she was scum against town!me she pocketed me and it didn't end well.) like i didn't say "from this point onwards i am doing nothing but sheeping skitter with zero thoughts of my own"

pedit: i don't know how i feel about echo's vote on gamma, but "i don't know how i feel about this" is pretty much the only thoughts i have on echo this game

also hasn't the deadline been extended? tho idk what to

[Datisi]

Skitter30 is replacing mizzytasic. The game clock is restarting

oh right, "restarting" doesn't mean "extra time is added", don't mind me

the search for the replacement lasted a bit less than 4 hours, so... eh, i guess.

[Datisi]

aaaaaa i was about to sleep

and usually if my reads are ass backwards to skitt's, that means she's town and i'm wrong

this is a thing?

this is like a silent observantion of mine
1992 - disagreement about wu, i thought you were scum (though i was giving priority to mena's read on you than my own)
jk9++ - in your spat with s_s i thought you looked bad, he was scum
miccro2 - same as above but with duck

the only game where i at no point wanted to murder you was in mbos9 when you were actually scum so

alch/gamma have scum unless ico flips scum

i don't get the connection between alch/gamma and ico

weren't both of them kinda pushing an ico wagon while he wasn't here?

[Datisi]

oh yeah open 779 pyp was a thing. i don't remember my read on you there, though i barely remember that game at all so.

[Datisi]

nero acting like i'm gonna have one correct scumread and promptly proceed to tunnel on town for the rest of the game and ruin town cohesion is a bit weird, no?

big yes

dunno if i instantly wanna murder him for it, but it did make me go

you two don't have history?

[Datisi]

why is una like... catching up to half the gane when we have 13 hours left and two wagons at E-2

[Datisi]

how bad do you prefer gamma > echo?

[Datisi]

i like my vote on echo
at some point i was thinking about switching to gamma but after skitter rep-in i'm kinda eh on that now

still would switch there if needed

also my inner pessimism is starting to say that gamma/echo are probably t/t and it doesn't really matter
no i don't have anything rational to back that up with

[Datisi]

i know i wasn't part of this convo and i hate butting in but we're short on time and i kinda wanna know too so

He's (Alch) also correct when he says that Ico can react to his wagon when he gets back.

i'm saying i disagree with this ^
a) wagoning someone who clearly isn't here so they can 'react to the wagon when they get back' is kinda a waste of time and wagoning because you can just ... wagon someone who actively is there, and then let the absent slot either get replaced, or if they return wagon them at that time. it's a silly waste imo because the person you're trying to get a reaction out of isn't even there to produce said reaction
b) i'm not sure ico (in particular) would even react super strongly upon returning to a wagon that formed on him while he was mia, because he was mia

what makes gamma different in this regard?

if gamma and alch both wagoned ico, why are you townreading gamma but not alch? or like why aren't these points against gamma

[Datisi]

sircakez, gamma isn't on E-1 anymore

ech is the one that should be claiming

what's your read on echo again?

[Datisi]

ok first, can you please stop calling me datsi

second, sorry what is that supposed to mean?

[Datisi]

second, sorry what is that supposed to mean?

Didn't you say you just always want to vote her? And the only time you didn't have that feeling was when she was scum?

yeah, that's historically happened in our games. i'm confused how you're taking that and jumping to "they are scum together".

[Datisi]

i mean, the whole point of me mentioning that was the fact that skitter came in with gameviews that were completely different to my own, which is what reminded me of games where we were t/t...

In hindsight Datsi worries me a little b/c he apparently always wants to vote Skitter except the time she was scum. So maybe that could mean they are scum together.

also this give me the bad-faithy vibe you're trying to shut skitter out by going for people that think she's town

[Datisi]

i hate literally everything about how skitt and nero are interacting and if i had a 2-shot dayvig i'd shoot both of them

[Datisi]

i hate literally everything about how skitt and nero are interacting and if i had a 2-shot dayvig i'd shoot both of them

What do you not like?

you both feel like you're trying to ~gather support~ for your push and ~present the other as bad~ as opposed to believing what you're saying and directly attacking each other

like i'm watching two presidential candidates before election

it's weird

[Datisi]

tbh i just want a hammer because i don't fancy a no-exe and we can pick this spat up on day two

[Datisi]

someone please hammer

[Datisi]

i think the only other person i'd like to vote rn is maybe gamma and that wagon is completely fucking dead

anyone else would be "eh i don't scumread this slot but we need a flip"

i don't have too much faith in echo flipping scum because the world isn't nice to me but they've already claimed and less than 5 hours till deadline etc etc so here's to me being wrong

[Datisi]

Maybe this is answered already (I’m behind and reading through) but why does Skitter’s replace in affect your thoughts on Gamma?

it is half-answered, and it is very weird to explain

like historically, whenever i was t/t with skitter, our reads were very different, and i wanted to murder her. the only time i was town with her being scum, i *didn't* want to murder her. now, with her replace in here, our reads were/are very different, and i slightly feel the urge to murder her. which is making me think she might be town.

you following? ok.

whenever we were t/t and had differing reads, hers always turned out to be much more correct than mine. that is giving me pause on gamma. though i would probably still execute gamma anyway. though it realistically doesn't really matter because the wagon is pretty dead.

[Datisi]

datisim you are town reading Skitter b/c she has diffrent reads than you right? Or is there more to it?

i'll tell you a secret
i ahve no fucking clue how to read skitter. i jsut don't. read skitter machine broke. i'm going with whatever i can grasp for now. there's not more to it. i don't want to vote her out on day one when it's gonna be a flash execution.

if you don't think i'll flip scum why dont you come join and vote skitter with us

i don't necessarily think you're flipping scum but imo skitter flips scum less than you so

[Datisi]

What our your thoughts on her content/play?

most of her reads are "i don't understand this"
her spat with you is "presidential candidates"
i'm clinging on my mizzy tone townread until day two

[Datisi]

why is skitter scum, gamma

[Datisi]

ok that's all i cared about getting in this day phase

[Datisi]

how about you hammer *now* because there's like 3 hours left?

[Datisi]

ok

[Datisi]

because i don't think it's likely anything important is going to happen in the next 3 hours, switching to a different wagon is near impossible, and there's always a chance someone lurks out and we don't get a flip at all? also because gamma said he's townreading echo, and if he's scum he can not hammer then say he didn't want to hammer a townread?

which i don't get why you'd trust him with that

[Datisi]

baaaah. eating the kill on n1 as a cop was yikes.

[Datisi]

gg scum, thank mod for modding, gib pts pls

[Datisi]

@mod, pretty sure you do it yourself? like edit post #0, chance private to public, submit?