Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[JDye]

Not worth mentioning: cyl,egix, c4

72 says c4 isn't worth mentioning (they're being read as neutral) but goes on to say in their next two posts (#276 and #[post=#viewtopic.php?p=12290822#p1229082212290823]277[/post]) that C4 looks scummy.

[Egix96]

Some quick thoughts before I have to leave:
My writing style is always pretty neutral. It might make some of your reads NAI.

I've sort of come to terms with being lynched

and hopefully provided some discussion so there will be more information if I do get lynched.
I had a specific toneread on pig at some point that bothered me, but then I forgot it before I could share it. I guess it's nice that people are voting the same as me now?
Anticipating swinging vote counts, I will say that I will continue voting pig for the foreseeable future.

Not a town attitude. JD makes a good point as well - it's plain opportunism.

[Mizzytastic]

Didn't 72 update where c4 is in the reads list after that?

[safebet222]

Safebet read muh as neutral but now they're their second favourite elim candidate? What's muh done to move them from neutral to above Pig for an elim? If you think it's 72/muh (don't really think we should be looking at game solves a this point) why not keep your vote on 72?

Fair question...I only have one scum read... I've had my vote there for the better part of 3 days... The wagon isn't going anywhere today... Sometimes you don't get what you want. We have to get moving so I have a choice of 3 other wagons, time for option 2. Even a scum!72off recognizes that.

The question is why would you insist on leaving your vote somewhere that isn't providing pressure to move the game forward?

[Mizzytastic]

Goddammit. I move off cyl and she says something like that? I like the case 72 has (and scum!72 already has at least one own wagon with more than a vanity vote on it so I don't see the opportunism) but I don't like voting with her. I'd definitely prefer cyl or pig over muh or 72, though I really doubt they are both scum here.

I really need to look at the "safe seats" more and see what I think of them. Hopefully brain will cooperate :/

[JDye]

Fair question...I only have one scum read... I've had my vote there for the better part of 3 days... The wagon isn't going anywhere today... Sometimes you don't get what you want. We have to get moving so I have a choice of 3 other wagons, time for option 2. Even a scum!72off recognizes that.

The question is why would you insist on leaving your vote somewhere that isn't providing pressure to move the game forward?

How do you know it's not going anywhere? You didn't exactly make much of an effort to push the wagon in the first place and since 72's latest posts dont come off as super towny I think the wagon is still viable.

As for me "insisting" (don't think thats the right word to use) it's because I think the wagon is still viable and I'm not a huge fan of the other options. I'm netural/leaning scum on Cyl now though.

[JDye]

Given there's only a day though, I doubt I can sway people now that you've left the wagon since I've gotta sleep and do some uni work tomorro. I'll end up voting either muh or cyl but I'd like to see Muh answer the question I asked and post something substantial before I vote. If they don't post, I'll vote them just so they can't lurk their way to safety.

[72offsuit]

Deadline 27 hours. Given ppl r on dif time zones and leaving time for claims.
Lunchtime post, i will post updated thoughts in about 5-9 hrs from now

[safebet222]

How do you know it's not going anywhere? You didn't exactly make much of an effort to push the wagon in the first place and since 72's latest posts dont come off as super towny

I think the wagon is still viable.

As for me "insisting" (don't think thats the right word to use) it's because I think the wagon is still viable and I'm not a huge fan of the other options. I'm netural/leaning scum on Cyl now though.

I disagree... but I'm not giving up my scumread.

[safebet222]

Id actually like you to talk about the hunter posts.
Given a large part of how i read your slot is based on hunter, its a worthwhile exercise.

Ok... tbh I don't blame you for your hunterr. I had a whole thing in my head to write out but it's late and I'm tired and it really boils down to this: Nearly every single one of his posts was about or interacting with Mizzy. Yet his votes were for c4 and Cyl. Made no sense to me and I didn't think it was very helpful for town.

[safebet222]

Id actually like you to talk about the hunter posts.
Given a large part of how i read your slot is based on hunter, its a worthwhile exercise.

Ok... tbh I don't blame you for your hunterr

read

. I had a whole thing in my head to write out but it's late and I'm tired and it really boils down to this: Nearly every single one of his posts was about or interacting with Mizzy. Yet his votes were for c4 and Cyl. Made no sense to me and I didn't think it was very helpful for town.

Fixed my post above...

[muh316]

@Muh, if you're town, who's most likely to be scum on your wagon, in your opinion?

At this point in time, the wagon was Egix, AGamblingPig, C4. Cylstar wanted to vote me but didn't want to put me at E-1. Given these four my order of least to most scum is

C4
Egix
AGamblingPig
Cylstar

Egix, while a bit lurky, hasn't given me anything else to point him to scum. Cylstar I already have my vote on which is why she's most scum for me.

AGP is an interesting development for me. Particularly this callout from him

Muh has been evasive and refused to answer questions.

This seems like AGP trying to get me lynched by misrepresenting my actions and making them seem worse than they actually are.

There's also that scumslip from him that 72 mentioned.

Running out of battery and I left my charger in the car. So will post in the morning.

[safebet222]

I've spent the better part of two hours looking over the game... It's time for bed...

I really liked what Egix has brought since Sunday afternoon. I'm getting town vibes from him. I really like the fact that he saw the 72off had so many scum leans. I don't get it either. I disagree with his cyl read however mainly because I wouldn't expect cyl to have any instincts as she seems to be brand new to forum Mafia. Maybe I'm off on that point... thoughts Egix?

Cyl - hated her last post... but I still think that it comes from not knowing how to respond than some sort of scumplay. The lurking over the last few days is annoying and I completely understand why people are on her wagon.

I'm hoping to get some clarity on which of the viable wagons is best...

[Egix96]

I've spent the better part of two hours looking over the game... It's time for bed...

I really liked what Egix has brought since Sunday afternoon. I'm getting town vibes from him. I really like the fact that he saw the 72off had so many scum leans. I don't get it either. I disagree with his cyl read however mainly because I wouldn't expect cyl to have any instincts as she seems to be brand new to forum Mafia. Maybe I'm off on that point... thoughts Egix?

Cyl - hated her last post... but I still think that it comes from not knowing how to respond than some sort of scumplay. The lurking over the last few days is annoying and I completely understand why people are on her wagon.

I'm hoping to get some clarity on which of the viable wagons is best...

She says she's played IRL mafia. Tbf that's not a format I've played but I'm sure the basic skillset would translate easily.

[72offsuit]

But yes, I do think that "cus RVS lol" is a cop-out from c4 and my votes stays on him.

Re Hunter:

Didnt like this post -

any re-affirmation of vote is scummy

. Why the need to re-draw attention to who you are voting? Town doesnt need to holler out and say look at me.
Town needs to present a solid logical case as to why someone is scum and to convince their fellow townies of their case.

I disagree tbh.

This readslist feels like playing nicey-nicey with everyone. Bit of a brown-noser, inoffensive, buddying sort of post. Scummy

This feels a bit over-explainy to me. Scum mindest of guilty consience... know they are guilty ... feel the need to overexplain things that need 0 explaining

I guess I can kinda see the first one if I squint hard enough? I agree with the second one more though.

Updated readslist:

Town +++++++++++++ 72os

Not worth mentioning: cyl,egix

Scumlean: Hunter/safebet, Bipolar/Dye, Mizzy, muh, c4

Scum: GamblingPig

How do you have so many scum leans

Also you have Mizzy as a scum lean yet you imply that they're town in 274, what's up with that?

The fact cylstar is at E-2 and was still sitting on a solo GamblingPig wagon, whom noone really expressed interest in kicking throughout the thread, ie not being survivalistic, alone points towards more likely !towncyl than !scumcyl imo.

Considering that she's only made one post recently, I'd say this is a premature judgement.

1. Because the game is stale ass and noone is being proactive.
Scum delight.

2. Wassuppppppp.
Yes. Players can have scummy posts and townie posts.

[72offsuit]

Weird that both 72 and Mizzy started leaning towards town!cyl and started FOSing AGamblingPig within a very short amount of time. 72 being opportunistic when it looks like town is going to move in a certain direction?

You comment on my interacting with Mizzy and my vote on GamblingPig, and FoS me,
yet you make ZERO references to my actual case against GamblingPig.

Which basically reveals your mindset is not to solve slots, but rather to secure a miskick.

JD is scum.

[72offsuit]

My wagons in order:

72
Muh
Apig

Muh is neutral for me... I could entertain a 72/muh scum team... but I could just as easily see muh as IRL busy and the activity until page 8 as NAI.

Safebet read muh as neutral but now they're their second favourite elim candidate? What's muh done to move them from neutral to above Pig for an elim? If you think it's 72/muh (don't really think we should be looking at game solves a this point) why not keep your vote on 72?

this post rings ALARM BELLS.

Starts off by talking about safebet in the third person, as if the post is pitched towards players other than safebet,
then switches to the second person perspective and refers directly to safebet.

[72offsuit]

Not worth mentioning: cyl,egix, c4

72 says c4 isn't worth mentioning (they're being read as neutral) but goes on to say in their next two posts (#276 and #[post=#viewtopic.php?p=12290822#p1229082212290823]277[/post]) that C4 looks scummy.

Because town never change their mind based on re-reads and new information at hand.
Because town always tunnels one player they know is scum.
Hang on, that doesnt sound right.
Its scum that know the alignment of all players!

Trying to fit a convenient narrative for you tunneling me and me changing my vote.

Scum.

[72offsuit]

Goddammit. I move off cyl and she says something like that? I like the case 72 has (and scum!72 already has at least one own wagon with more than a vanity vote on it so I don't see the opportunism) but I don't like voting with her. I'd definitely prefer cyl or pig over muh or 72, though I really doubt they are both scum here.

I really need to look at the "safe seats" more and see what I think of them. Hopefully brain will cooperate :/

Sometimes nailing the coffin into scumbox town is second best to kicking scum

[72offsuit]

Vote Count 1.9

Neon, ₁₀Ne

— noble gas, standard atomic weight 20.180, group 18, period 2, p-block

AGamblingPig

(3): cylstar, 72offsuit, Mizzytastic

cylstar

(2): muh316, Egix96

muh316

(2): AGamblingPig, c4e5g3d5

72offsuit

(2): safebet222, JDye

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-11-06 06:30:00)

Deadline 19 hours.

[JDye]

Which basically reveals your mindset is not to solve slots, but rather to secure a miskick.

JD is scum.

This is the third (fifth actually, they do it in #266 and #277) post you've made like this, where you make a massive assumption about mindset based on one post then call someone scummy because of it. I called out the other two posts in a previous post of mine (#189). I'll repeat what I said there first: one post is not enough to determine a player's mindset. Furthermore, making definite statements like "X is scum" is not helpful and is revealing of your mindset. You seem more interested in pushing the idea of a person being scum than actually doing any scum hunting. This is further evidenced by their following post.

this post rings ALARM BELLS.

Starts off by talking about safebet in the third person, as if the post is pitched towards players other than safebet,
then switches to the second person perspective and refers directly to safebet.

Immediately after saying I am conf!scum (I don't see another way to take "JD is scum") they bring up another post of mine where it seems I've made a grammatical error and say it is scummy. They don't explain how it's scummy, they simply say it is. Almost as if saying "you guys do the math". They aren't trying to scumhunt they're trying to push an idea. A narrative.

As for why this supposedly alarming mistake happened... I edited the post a couple times so the error probably came about when doing that.

Because town never change their mind based on re-reads and new information at hand.
Because town always tunnels one player they know is scum.
Hang on, that doesnt sound right.
Its scum that know the alignment of all players!

Trying to fit a convenient narrative for you tunneling me and me changing my vote.

Scum.

Another definite statement of me being scum, simply by misrepresenting what I said. I made that post while only being aware of one of the two read lists that 72 had made in that wall of 20 posts. I must've not seen it. This mistake was corrected by Mizzy in a pretty visible spot (near the top of page 13) so I left it at that.

72 ofcourse, doesn't acknowledge any of this but tries to twist what I was saying to fit the narrative they want to push. I never said town doesn't change their mind, I simply said it was weird 72 said they read c4 as neutral but two minutes later started talking about how scummy they were. They can change their mind on c4 but to do it two minutes afterward making the read list is a bit weird. Even with the updated read list tbh. They also throw in some useless lines that try to paint me as scum by pretending I'm tunnelling on someone I

know

is scum while also saying scum know all the alignment of players. How then, if I'm scum, am I tunnelling someone who is also scum? Are you my partner in this hypothetical? It sounds good but means nothing.

All of these posts are just trying to fit my posts into the narrative 72 is pushing which is actually incredibly funny given that that's what 72 is saying I'm doing. It's either scummy or really bad town play.

Having responded, I've got questions to ask 72.

1) In what way am I tunnelling you? I've said I think you're a viable wagon but most recently said I'll vote someone else in order to achieve an elim today. You're throwing out baseless accusations.
2) What is so alarming about my post about safebet where I switched form third to second person?
3) Why do you insist on making these definite statements about a persons mindset all based on a single post? You've done it for me, Mizzy, Hunterr, C4 and Pig. You're bound to catch scum if you keep this up long enough.

[JDye]

1. The write-off of his gut-scum-vibe on me as being "just gas" is horrible. It doesnt fit a town mindset to build pressure. The "just gas" deflates pressure on a player (myself).
I think !townPig would be much more likely to give more time to let his gutread play out over several more pages/posts, rather than give the read away so early.

2. The vote on muh feels like scum opportunistically voting for low hanging fruit. I'd say muh is just the punching bag low-hanging fruit town jester.
The transition of Pig from gut-scum-reading me to dismissing that and then voting for muh fits !scumPig agenda.

Agree with Mizzy that this is lazy low effort scum sort of post. I think its a scumslip.
I made the SAME SCUMSLIP in Newbie 1986.

As for 72's case on Pig, I agree with it for the most part. I feel the same way about him being opportunistic on the muh vote. I made my #239 in response to his #235 and #237. I am wary of the "scum did it in the last game" since scum did that in my last game (lmao ) but Pig's post and response were pretty scummy.

The reason why I haven't mentioned voting Pig (I mentioned voting Cyl and Muh) is because both 72 and Cyl are on that wagon and given that I'm leaning scum for both of them, I'm not sure I want to vote alongside them.

[JDye]

Trying to re-evaluate my reads a little.

I don't like 72's play. Very little scum hunting, lots of generalisations and assumptions. All over the place with reads. Seems kinda OMGUSy.

I feel like I'm being played a little by Cyl. Most recent posts from them have had scum vibes. Conflicted read since early read was very towny. I trust my recent read more though.

Pig just hasn't been active. They came in to beat muh's dead horse. Made a slip possibly and had a weird response to being called on it.

Muh has only a single thing against them and from the way people have responded to it, I think there's definitely been scum trying to take advantage of that. Not seeing scum!muh right now.

[JDye]

72 isn't possible today, Muh isn't going to get voted by me.

Pig vs Cyl

72 and Cyl are on Pig. Mizzy is also on pig and I'm townreading them. Opportunism and a possible slip.
Muh and Egix are on Cyl. Town leans on all of them. Nothing "solid" for cyl though, mostly tonal.

Feel like Pig has highest chance to flip scum here.

VOTE: AGamblingPig

Say what you want about my last game but at least D1 had easy elim candidates.

This puts AGamblingPig at E-1

[c4e5g3d5]

Weird that both 72 and Mizzy started leaning towards town!cyl and started FOSing AGamblingPig within a very short amount of time. 72 being opportunistic when it looks like town is going to move in a certain direction?

You comment on my interacting with Mizzy and my vote on GamblingPig, and FoS me,
yet you make ZERO references to my actual case against GamblingPig.

Which basically reveals your mindset is not to solve slots, but rather to secure a miskick.

JD is scum.

This reach lmao

Take big issue with Egix and Mizzy forgetting this is a newbie game (re: cyl).