Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[fferyllt]

Meh.

You're not easy to interact with. Our playstyles don't mesh very well. Even though I townread you I can't work with you so far.

You're pushing me for stances, which is perfectly reasonable, but things aren't solid for me yet. I'm willing to vote spangled because he's at the bottom of my read pile but I feel no urgency to put the vote down righ now. Pushing me for stances above that line atm is simply not going to lead to decisions -- just rehashing, which is happening anyway.

I dunno. I'm not as open to considering your stances on other players as I would be if I had more reason to trust your gamesolving ability. It's not reasonable to discount you because you're misreading me but that's what I'm doing partially. Looking over your meta, this is a position you're apparently not in all that often.

[Umlaut]

Seeking a replacement for JDye.

[Spangled]

sorry I’ve been gone so long

Obviously I’ve been V/LA and that’s part of it, but also when I have found time I’ve been feeling really discouraged and so doing other things; rightly or wrongly, I did expect to get TRed by at least a majority of the town after I entered. I don’t know why; maybe it’s ‘cause last game (which was admittedly a good while ago) that I repped into a shady slot, despite calling my own slot scummy, I was fairly roundly TRed for my catch-up, and I thought my catch-up was similar-ish here. I guess I expected the same thing to happen here. Anyway. I’ll try and do some stuff tonight.

[72offsuit]

sorry I’ve been gone so long

Obviously I’ve been V/LA and that’s part of it, but also when I have found time I’ve been feeling really discouraged and so doing other things; rightly or wrongly, I did expect to get TRed by at least a majority of the town after I entered. I don’t know why; maybe it’s ‘cause last game (which was admittedly a good while ago) that I repped into a shady slot, despite calling my own slot scummy, I was fairly roundly TRed for my catch-up, and I thought my catch-up was similar-ish here. I guess I expected the same thing to happen here. Anyway. I’ll try and do some stuff tonight.

OK. Which game are you referring to?

[72offsuit]

Hitchhikers, Grand Idea, Race to 1500?

[72offsuit]

Make the fruit hang a bit lower please.

[Spangled]

Up past midnight. :/

But, 72 metadive done.

72offsuit

Town
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84499 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84118 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84085 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84399 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83106 (Newbie)

Scum
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83923 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?t=82578 (Mini Normal - replaced out early day 2)

The two scum game ISOs were different. One is a Newbie game and the other is a Mini Normal (13 players) which is probably the source of the differences.

In the Newbie scum game there were far fewer text speak type abbreviations compared to here. Sentences were longer, and few abbreviations. And there was much less punch in the word choices. The posts come off less aggressive sounding than his town Newbie games. As he was under pressure his posts got shorter and shorter.

In the Mini Normal 72 replaced out, but was in the game long enough to make > 50 posts. Many of the posts were very long. He did some cursory meta research on a player, something didn't notice in his newbie games. He did detailed reads lists and detailed ISOs. There were lots of quotewalls, and fewer interactive posts. Very few posts that looked like phoneposting.

Town Newbie games vary somewhat. Sometimes he's very playful in RVS phase. Sometimes he steps up into the SE role and explains theory, links the wiki, etc. I think he feels more comfortable phone posting in town games (or his schedule varies over time). He seems to start games with the assumption that nobody is town, and lets players prove themselves, or not. This leads to a lot of false positives.

I didn't notice a lengthy 1v1 like he had with JDye, so I didn't see the same degree of aggravated looking posts as here. He bounces around from scumread to scumread and back. Wagon building looks pragmatic.

So yeah, this looks like Town 72

.

ehhhhh I see what you’re saying, especially on shorter posts under pressure and less phone-posting as scum, but two scum games hardly makes a scum meta, and scum can emulate their townplay; this could be the scum game where 72 Gets Really Good.

And I’ve been duped by scum (well, one scum) emulating their townplay whose town metas are basically ‘be aggressive and illogical’, and I was completely fooled up until they repped out, and even then I didn’t think that they were scum, in fact I held them as a very strong townread the whole game, until wiser heads prevailed and I was convinced by someone else who I townread even more; until nearing the very end. I mean obviously I’m not townreading 72 here, but you see what I’m saying here?

Anyway, I just don’t think this is conclusive.

[Spangled]

uh give me a minute 72 I can never remember which games were like what

[Spangled]

1941, here’s my ISO.

[Spangled]

I did have quite a bit of free time that game though, and did my catch-up a) when I was, relatively speaking, fairly not-tired, and b) all in one post

[Mizzytastic]

sorry I’ve been gone so long

Obviously I’ve been V/LA and that’s part of it, but also when I have found time I’ve been feeling really discouraged and so doing other things; rightly or wrongly, I did expect to get TRed by at least a majority of the town after I entered. I don’t know why; maybe it’s ‘cause last game (which was admittedly a good while ago) that I repped into a shady slot, despite calling my own slot scummy, I was fairly roundly TRed for my catch-up, and I thought my catch-up was similar-ish here. I guess I expected the same thing to happen here. Anyway. I’ll try and do some stuff tonight.

Catch up taking longer than planned because Desert Bus for Hope is going longer than planned, but I saw this and it pinged me. Town feeling entitled to be townread cos they are town is definitely a thing, but this feels like feeling entitled to be townread because of how he has acted which feels scummy to me.

[72offsuit]

Im not surprised if as you say you were, you got townread. in 1941. Your entry catch up in that game is pro town ++++
Virtually every single line you post in that 1941 catch up links a post to ALIGNMENT, or intentions - eg: "its weird but legit" - ie coming from a good place / genuine
its either post X is Towny, post Y is LAMISTY, post Z has good reasoning

Your entry here, not so much. You talk instead about what is "correct" or "right" - rather than in terms of eg" "genuine, but misguided".
For example am i wrong because im making BS up as scum, or am i town barking up the wrong tree?
It also includes much more fluff - bringing up Pig when he is dead, without tying it to an alive player and how their interaction with pig is suggestive of their alignment.

You make comment about me:
You've pushed votes, but you have never, ever, backed down from a vote, and said 'no I was wrong here's why', you've just pushed slot after slot. You have no progression.

And dont mention the fact I changed my read of Mizzy prior to others TRing Mizzy, as well as me pushing muh, and then changing my read to him as town.
So your statements arent even reflective of the actual play in the game, it seems more like cherry picking based on votes, which is super-low-effort based scumlike "scumhunting" style.

In that game, you conclude with a full reads list PROTOWN

In this game, u conclude with a shitty vote and no readslist.

[72offsuit]

I feel like your explanation for lower activity and being deflated/unmotivated is reasonable, given replacing in is always tough and lack of much interaction from the player list in general with your catch up, though its explained by both frustrated town and frustrated scum.

[72offsuit]

My scum game is just fine. I'm pretty sure I'm 2/3 as scum in Newbies.

[72offsuit]

Up past midnight. :/

But, 72 metadive done.

72offsuit

Town
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84499 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84118 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84085 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84399 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83106 (Newbie)

Scum
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83923 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?t=82578 (Mini Normal - replaced out early day 2)

The two scum game ISOs were different. One is a Newbie game and the other is a Mini Normal (13 players) which is probably the source of the differences.

In the Newbie scum game there were far fewer text speak type abbreviations compared to here. Sentences were longer, and few abbreviations. And there was much less punch in the word choices. The posts come off less aggressive sounding than his town Newbie games. As he was under pressure his posts got shorter and shorter.

In the Mini Normal 72 replaced out, but was in the game long enough to make > 50 posts. Many of the posts were very long. He did some cursory meta research on a player, something didn't notice in his newbie games. He did detailed reads lists and detailed ISOs. There were lots of quotewalls, and fewer interactive posts. Very few posts that looked like phoneposting.

Town Newbie games vary somewhat. Sometimes he's very playful in RVS phase. Sometimes he steps up into the SE role and explains theory, links the wiki, etc. I think he feels more comfortable phone posting in town games (or his schedule varies over time). He seems to start games with the assumption that nobody is town, and lets players prove themselves, or not. This leads to a lot of false positives.

I didn't notice a lengthy 1v1 like he had with JDye, so I didn't see the same degree of aggravated looking posts as here. He bounces around from scumread to scumread and back. Wagon building looks pragmatic.

So yeah, this looks like Town 72

.

ehhhhh I see what you’re saying, especially on shorter posts under pressure and less phone-posting as scum, but two scum games hardly makes a scum meta, and scum can emulate their townplay; this could be the scum game where 72 Gets Really Good.

And I’ve been duped by scum (well, one scum) emulating their townplay whose town metas are basically ‘be aggressive and illogical’, and I was completely fooled up until they repped out, and even then I didn’t think that they were scum, in fact I held them as a very strong townread the whole game, until wiser heads prevailed and I was convinced by someone else who I townread even more; until nearing the very end. I mean obviously I’m not townreading 72 here, but you see what I’m saying here?

Anyway, I just don’t think this is conclusive.

I'm REALLY a big hater for "oh this vague thing that happened in an earlier game, has some slight slight similarity to something in this game, therefore my actions in this game are perfectly legimtimate"
"oh ive been fooled by this before", without accompanying IN-CURRENT-GAME analysis attached.

[72offsuit]

Particularly like your posts in 1941 like: "Everyone is ignoring Kaniffee"

768 feels a "bit posture-y" but not very scummy and not enough to change my thoughts on Holden

There you actually try and capture the vibes of the game and the INTENT behind psots.

Here you go for generalizations like "no progression", which is untrue. You pick a player-player interaction between myself and JDye, basically state a mindmeld with JDye and state that I am scum and that you hate my style and dont want to take me into LYLO - you dont make any such forward-thinking mindset in 1941.

[Spangled]

Up past midnight. :/

But, 72 metadive done.

72offsuit

Town
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84499 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84118 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84085 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84399 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83106 (Newbie)

Scum
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83923 (Newbie)
viewtopic.php?t=82578 (Mini Normal - replaced out early day 2)

The two scum game ISOs were different. One is a Newbie game and the other is a Mini Normal (13 players) which is probably the source of the differences.

In the Newbie scum game there were far fewer text speak type abbreviations compared to here. Sentences were longer, and few abbreviations. And there was much less punch in the word choices. The posts come off less aggressive sounding than his town Newbie games. As he was under pressure his posts got shorter and shorter.

In the Mini Normal 72 replaced out, but was in the game long enough to make > 50 posts. Many of the posts were very long. He did some cursory meta research on a player, something didn't notice in his newbie games. He did detailed reads lists and detailed ISOs. There were lots of quotewalls, and fewer interactive posts. Very few posts that looked like phoneposting.

Town Newbie games vary somewhat. Sometimes he's very playful in RVS phase. Sometimes he steps up into the SE role and explains theory, links the wiki, etc. I think he feels more comfortable phone posting in town games (or his schedule varies over time). He seems to start games with the assumption that nobody is town, and lets players prove themselves, or not. This leads to a lot of false positives.

I didn't notice a lengthy 1v1 like he had with JDye, so I didn't see the same degree of aggravated looking posts as here. He bounces around from scumread to scumread and back. Wagon building looks pragmatic.

So yeah, this looks like Town 72

.

ehhhhh I see what you’re saying, especially on shorter posts under pressure and less phone-posting as scum, but two scum games hardly makes a scum meta, and scum can emulate their townplay; this could be the scum game where 72 Gets Really Good.

And I’ve been duped by scum (well, one scum) emulating their townplay whose town metas are basically ‘be aggressive and illogical’, and I was completely fooled up until they repped out, and even then I didn’t think that they were scum, in fact I held them as a very strong townread the whole game, until wiser heads prevailed and I was convinced by someone else who I townread even more; until nearing the very end. I mean obviously I’m not townreading 72 here, but you see what I’m saying here?

Anyway, I just don’t think this is conclusive.

I'm REALLY a big hater for "oh this vague thing that happened in an earlier game, has some slight slight similarity to something in this game, therefore my actions in this game are perfectly legimtimate"
"oh ive been fooled by this before", without accompanying IN-CURRENT-GAME analysis attached.

damnit 72 I didn’t try to justify my actions and I wasn’t actually really comparing this game to that, I was just saying, people can emulate their town meta convincingly, and here’s my experience of that; this is why I don’t trust the meta-ing here.

[72offsuit]

FF is pushing Spangled, when I want to kick FF, and outed Spangled as my 2nd preferred kick - I think this is a strong reason on its own to kick FF.

[72offsuit]

All the more reason for you to kick FF. FF is the one leading us doan a garden path with useless meta analysis that is going to convince noone.

[Spangled]

Im not surprised if as you say you were, you got townread. in 1941. Your entry catch up in that game is pro town ++++
Virtually every single line you post in that 1941 catch up links a post to ALIGNMENT, or intentions - eg: "its weird but legit" - ie coming from a good place / genuine
its either post X is Towny, post Y is LAMISTY, post Z has good reasoning

Your entry here, not so much. You talk instead about what is "correct" or "right" - rather than in terms of eg" "genuine, but misguided".
For example am i wrong because im making BS up as scum, or am i town barking up the wrong tree?
It also includes much more fluff - bringing up Pig when he is dead, without tying it to an alive player and how their interaction with pig is suggestive of their alignment.

You make comment about me:
You've pushed votes, but you have never, ever, backed down from a vote, and said 'no I was wrong here's why', you've just pushed slot after slot. You have no progression.

And dont mention the fact I changed my read of Mizzy prior to others TRing Mizzy, as well as me pushing muh, and then changing my read to him as town.
So your statements arent even reflective of the actual play in the game, it seems more like cherry picking based on votes, which is super-low-effort based scumlike "scumhunting" style.

In that game, you conclude with a full reads list PROTOWN

In this game, u conclude with a shitty vote and no readslist.

I hear you on the ambiguous, general statements, maybe slightly exaggerated statements. Maybe they’re not always right or completely fair to the recipients. But they were what I was feeling at the time, in the contexts of the posts I was reading when I posted them.

But uh mentioning Pig really isn’t AI.

As to you changing your read of Mizzy and muh, yeah, fair, this is why I said I needed to go back and ISO/case you. I needed, I need, to get a picture of you clear in my head.

[Spangled]

All the more reason for you to kick FF. FF is the one leading us doan a garden path with useless meta analysis that is going to convince noone.

Well the thing is with analysis it doesn’t have to convince us; all it has to do is convince the person writing it. If FF’s town, they either saw something in a moment of insight or the impression built up in them over time. It would be nice for them if it convinced us but that’s only part of the primary reason for posting analysis; the primary reason for posting analysis is just (in my humble opinion) to push it out there into the world, to let others see your thoughts and interact with them however they will.

[Spangled]

Particularly like your posts in 1941 like: "Everyone is ignoring Kaniffee"

768 feels a "bit posture-y" but not very scummy and not enough to change my thoughts on Holden

There you actually try and capture the vibes of the game and the INTENT behind psots.

Here you go for generalizations like "no progression", which is untrue. You pick a player-player interaction between myself and JDye, basically state a mindmeld with JDye and state that I am scum and that you hate my style and dont want to take me into LYLO - you dont make any such forward-thinking mindset in 1941.

I do see you on the generalisations, like I said. As to forward-thinking — I don’t see how that’s particularly AI, but I feel like we’re approaching LyLo fast this game. I mean as to the numbers we aren’t yet, I guess, but that’s how I felt when I wrote that, that’s still how I feel now.

[Spangled]

be back in a few hours maybe things to do right now

[Spangled]

Particularly like your posts in 1941 like: "Everyone is ignoring Kaniffee"

768 feels a "bit posture-y" but not very scummy and not enough to change my thoughts on Holden

There you actually try and capture the vibes of the game and the INTENT behind psots.

Here you go for generalizations like "no progression", which is untrue. You pick a player-player interaction between myself and JDye, basically state a mindmeld with JDye and state that I am scum and that you hate my style and dont want to take me into LYLO - you dont make any such forward-thinking mindset in 1941.

I do see you on the generalisations, like I said. As to forward-thinking — I don’t see how that’s particularly AI, but I feel like we’re approaching LyLo fast this game. I mean as to the numbers we aren’t yet, I guess, but that’s how I felt when I wrote that, that’s still how I feel now.

Maybe it’s cause no one’s really around and no one’s really been around; that LyLo kind of feeling where some players are tunnelling others aggressively and there are few other players besides them

[Spangled]

VOTE: Spangled

Your play trying to convince us to elim in a rush at the end of yesterday coupled with your massclaim advocacy doesn't look good.

The reason I pushed 72’s lynch at the end of the day was because I thought he was scum, and I saw no value in the logic people were pushing for a no-lynch. It was at the end of the day because... that’s when I was around; that’s when I found time for mafia; that’s why it was a rush.

As to massclaim advocacy today — first, I’ve only made like two posts about it, and they’ve been explaining why

I

think it’d be a good idea; I’ve hardly been going door-to-door. Second, y’know, I did uh explain my reasons maybe you could look at them?

Do you agree with them or disagree?