Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: geraintm

[Dunnstral]

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

UNVOTE:

Why?

I can't vote them after their epic soft

[Dunnstral]

So this is how shelly plays as town

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

What about it

[Dunnstral]

A comparison between this game and a game where I saw them where they were mafia

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I never said I was 100% sure though

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That's attributing a strength to my read that I haven't expressed

[Dunnstral]

Still trying to wrap my head around that but no luck .. Need a linguist here. Sounds more like it’s coming from someone who has prior knowledge that Shelly is town.

Post 83 has me expressing a read, but nowhere do I make mention of the strength of the read. I certainly don't say I'm fully confident, or one-hundred percent certain on my read.

Post 101 seems to be a separate accusation, after the explanation I gave in posts 97, 99, 100.

There is no explanation of how my post 83 is:

coming from someone who has prior knowledge that Shelly is town.

Post 101 looks to me like you received your answer, but you don't want to back off, so you came up with a new reason to push me.

[Dunnstral]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

When did I ever do this here?
People are attributing things to me that didn't happen

[Dunnstral]

I'm not leading anything, and that's not really true

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2/2 for people stating reasons to scumread me, being proven wrong, and then essentially saying I'm scum anyway

[Dunnstral]

That wasn't the question

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What question

You were being asked to explain your read, and then segued into talking about how your vote being there was alright, which wasn't really the question. You managed to sneak in an explanation without me getting a p.edit though, so:

You seem a little like annoyed scum who is getting pushed for reasons they don’t think are alignment indicative.

OK, this is an explanation, it's not a good read though

[Dunnstral]

I think the vote did what I was trying to have it do anyways,

I don't think your vote accomplished anything I wasn't already doing, but maybe I'm biased

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But it feels like you are blustering

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Why are you acting like that’s different?

It is in the sense that I don't think your 'move' here was particularly effective or informative

So when you say you got what you wanted it feels performative

[Dunnstral]

So far, I like unwd and shelly's posts seems like they are trying to solve.

Johnny is more aggressive and lurks much more in his scum game, so leaning town.

I like this

[Dunnstral]

83 is an implied read, I'm not sure how you see it as a slip instead

[Dunnstral]

83 seems pretty obvious in that I'm communicating that I think shelly is town, rather than going off of assumptions, which would be something a lot more subtle, and not me outright calling them town

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Maybe it was .. but it still really pings me the wrong way as I explained

It would be really difficult to "accidentally" slip like post 83

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral - why do you think that Shlly is town as you gave zero indication why you have that read

A comparison between this game and a game where I saw them where they were mafia

[Dunnstral]

Dunn i asked for confirmation about his style because the way unwnd described it just sounded like he acts scummy always.

Well, no.

[Dunnstral]

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

This is a bad reason to townread them

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I should have clarified but yes, I meant nopointinactingup

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I mean, I appreciated it

Right now I think both nopoint and Flavor are suspicious, I was waiting to see what else nopoint had to say but they seem to have vacated the thread which looks kind of scummy here

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Dunn I would like to hear from you re: this vote

Was thinking about voting either FL or nopoint, FL is acting off and we shouldn't let him downplay it

[Dunnstral]

I think we need to stop townreading flavor for mysterious 'he wouldn't play like this' reasons and hold him to a higher standard, that means elimming him when his play is bad/scummy

I don't trust anyone's read on him that has him as town at this point in time

[Dunnstral]

I think we need to stop townreading flavor for mysterious 'he wouldn't play like this' reasons and hold him to a higher standard, that means elimming him when his play is bad/scummy

I don't trust anyone's read on him that has him as town at this point in time

I don’t understand this post at all. Where has anyone uttered a TR of Flavor based on the fact that he wouldn’t “play this way as Scum”? Can you point me to it? Because off the top of my head, I don’t recall anyone really making that argument.

What specifically about his play has been Scummy to you? Outside of him obviously SR’ing you, how do you think his approach is not from a Town POV?

I thought most players who townread him were thinking along those lines?

He's scummy because he's acting in a weird/awkward way and is responding to pressure in a scummy way

[Dunnstral]

I'm back.

Let's actually do this
VOTE: not maf

And if you don't wanna, tell me why not.

We should get flavor or nopoint today, both have been scummy

[Dunnstral]

People understand why Hank and I get along, right? :lol:

Moving Hank up to town. I think he’s super genuine.

I don’t think others will see him as super genuine, but I have another game of familiarity with him.

Never seen him scum, but if he is scum, I wanna see it, haha

You are right, oh flavor of the leaf
I'm so misunderstood... Woe am I, for the vote unto which has been laid upon me holds nothing by malice!

VOTE: Dunnstral

Even so, I must be strong in my hour of trial.

I would be inclined to agree with the sentiment that picking out an evildoer amidst all of.. this.. is going to be quite the feat, if I do say so.

So why did you vote me?

[Dunnstral]

Just a hunch.

I'm happy to dress it up a bit, if that answer doesn't satisfy you, but there's little point in fixing a rake without any prongs.

And seeing that I'm clearly having trouble using said rake, perhaps you'd like to be the kindly neighbour who offers to lend me theirs.

Tell me Dunnstral,

will you help me with my gardening

?

Let's clear out the weeds first

[Dunnstral]

I actually do think Dunnstral is the most likely to be scum right now

I called him out earlier, and I didn't like his response, and then he joined my wagon in what could have been a momentum swinging situation.

I ISO’ed there, and I can see what you’re saying. They have one read out (shellyc), and most everything else from them is related to being pushed by nopoint, including their interaction with me trying to discredit nopoint.

I’ll join you there for now, since unwnd is not attracting much attention just yet.

VOTE: Dunnstral

The bolded is weird

[Dunnstral]

Hank I'm not sure that you ever explained why

Shelly you are on the wrong track I think

[Dunnstral]

Hank I'm not sure that you ever explained why

Shelly you are on the wrong track I think

what do you think is the right track

FL, nopoint, Hank at this point

Instead of sliding me lower down your reads in preparation to switch to me at the end

[Dunnstral]

Hank is ghosting the thread at the end here

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Is the only reason it didn't gain traction is because it seemingly was easy? Like, that's the only thought I can have.

I'd vote him.

I think FL and Nopoint on this page are like, blatantly scummy

[Dunnstral]

Titus, Town Cop Enabler, was killed Night 1!

I claim cop

[Dunnstral]

My info is: Not_Mafia is town

[Dunnstral]

Vote count 1.05
with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-12-14 10:06:13).

ELIMINATION
1.

Titus

[0]:
2. Andresvmb [2]: geraintm#33, JohnnyFarrar#232
3. unwnd [1]: shellyc#292
4. Flavor Leaf [4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

,

Titus#503

,

Not_Mafia#509

5. Hank Spankems [0]:
6. shellyc [0]:
7. PlusJOYED [0]:
8.

Not_Mafia

[2]: Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365
9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:
10. geraintm [0]:
11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:
12.

Dunnstral

[3]: Flavor Leaf#381, Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548
13. nopointinactingup [0]:


no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [1]: TheFuzzyLogic99

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

We need to eliminate Flavor Leaf and Hank, and then we can look at Shelly after. There's a chance she's just wrong about everything but for the way she kept sliding her votes to save FL and Hank she needs to die eventually

[Dunnstral]

I think we no elimmed because town played bad, not because of scum

[Dunnstral]

There wasn't an extra kill though

Fine, but if there's no vigilante we need to get him

VOTE: Hank Spankems

I don't think it's Unwnd and don't want to get Unwnd

[Dunnstral]

So you're only reading your own slots posts or what

[Dunnstral]

Noraa you're voting on my inno check

[Dunnstral]

OK I'm not rereading anything

Town right now are Insano, (Dunn), PlusJOYED, Fuzzy, FL (Begrudgingly), Noraa

That leaves Johnny/Gera/Nopoint/Andres

I don't think that contains the whole team and I've been wracking my brain about where I want to take things. I made some points earlier that people seemed to glance over which slightly irritates me but to rephrase up until (now) I've had a difficult time sorting through the monotony. At an individual level I think Johnny's content looks the worse, and Nopoint offering me a meta tell isn't enough to chew on to say otherwise. There is a distinctive lack of commitment in his posts and I think as time goes on me waiting for anything to change simply won't do

VOTE: JohnnyFarrer

and N_M

[Dunnstral]

Except, Why is Insanoflex town?

[Dunnstral]

Cuz existence of cop enabler is already like 90% saying cop exists.

scum and town can have rolecop or other things like that too. There's a non zero chance that Dunn could be scum still, but like, I'm not going down that rabbit hole this game. But like on a technical level, since I don't think Dunn's the type to gambit.

This is possible scumNoraa pairing up to someone they think is mech cleared as town.

Cop enabler doesn't affect rolecop

They're different roles

[Dunnstral]

I'm opposed to elimming unwnd

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I'm just saying in general. Since the thread is fragmented with votes

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OH I remember the question. How tf did y'all end up with nolim on ... day 1?!

Multiple players didn't understand that there was no majority vote, or something. Multiple players just didn't place the votes we needed

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@Dunn - were you given a PM stating you were disabled?

Yeah

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I'm uncomfortable with going noraa/shelly slot, because the only reason I was ok with that was that I didn't like their reads on FL/Hank

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How so?

[Dunnstral]

Hmm... I wonder what Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Day 2 has decided to grace my eyes with today

Almost 7 pages of Noraa and FL talking to each other, I see

[Dunnstral]

Claim list helps.

[Dunnstral]

despite andres less activity I still TR him
-----
TRs I'm taking vig suggestions from (unordered)
insano
noraa
dunn
FL
andres

notmafia has been so out of it I'd rather not let them aim no offense.

I can give a list of what I think before the end

[Dunnstral]

I don't buy it.

Well he's claiming enabler, not watcher. And he could be tied to a scum role. Could also be fake

[Dunnstral]

By the way did someone call for massclaim or what? Why are so many claims out

[Dunnstral]

either nopoint is lying or Watcher is a scum role. Or he's a named townie, but it's probably more likely that scum has a watcher if they're town

UNVOTE:

I think I'm voting Insano still

[Dunnstral]

or watcher just hasn't claimed, that's not everyone. But we don't need everyone to claim

[Dunnstral]

complex neighborizer.

I believe this claim in this setup

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I'd prefer that Johnny was not shot at this point, his role seems town to me, and also real

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Watcher enabler sounds like what you claim when everyone else is claiming enabler and you're on the chopping block

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at this point a mass claim is the way we should go and those who dont should be killed or vigged imho

No I don't think that is necessary

There's enough out in the open to where we can figure something out

[Dunnstral]

OK, I'm keeping in mind that Complex Neighborizer is a possible scum role

[Dunnstral]

in fact, I'm going to step up and take charge since this thread is a mess and most people consider me lock clear

Stop Claiming

Unwnd, I want your opinion/help making sense of this

For the rest, Unwnd is, at the very least, nai. I lean towny, and don't want them to be the elimination today

I'm considering whether NoPoint's roel can be real but mafia aligned. I think if we decide we want them gone, we can consider vigging them instead of eliminating them.

As to whether a Watcher fits into the setup on the town's side: it depends on what exactly the claim is, and we can sort that out later

[Dunnstral]

I don't think a is particularly likely just by setup design principles

[Dunnstral]

Dunn
Do you think there is a Cop, Complex Neighborizer . and a watcher.....seem like a lot of power for one side

There is no watcher claim right now, and if there is one we don't know what restrictions they may have. I don't really want to guide fake claims any more by elaborating, but this isn't a slam dunk mech guilty for the Complex Neighborizor (though I'm willing to listen to why they're scum by play, and I acknowledge that they can be true claiming and also be scum)

I don't think Complex Neighborizor is a strong town role in the current setup. Or at least, not significantly stronger than a normal neighborizor. it has light investigative abilities. It would be more useful in scum hands, likely

[Dunnstral]

Something to consider:

Vigilantes cannot be scum-aligned, so Vigilante is a self-clearing role. This is of note when considering other investigative roles.
I consider Plusjoyed to be lock town as long as they manage to get a shot off, or if FL's role is vig enabler (in case of roleblocks, I consider that enough. Plusjoyed doesn't fake claim vig here as scum off of a vig enabler claim, because it's very likely there's a vig who would shoot them)

[Dunnstral]

Vigilantes cannot be scum-aligned

In normals, that is. Which this game is

[Dunnstral]

See I targeted nopo as a sort of investigation, and then tested him before telling him I was complex, so like either serendipity is on his side or he's town here. I suspected him d1.

Them being a power role doesn't make them town

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I was pretty sure Johnny was town after seeing the scum watcher flip

[Dunnstral]

Who was claiming to be in johnny's neighborhood, again? Who did johnny target and what was the result?

[Dunnstral]

sorry fuzzy
andres told me to I take no responsibility

...why are you listening to andres?

[Dunnstral]

For what it's worth, I should disclose that Johnny neighborized me before he died, their hood was basically inactive, they greeted each other but didn't say much otherwise, nopoint didn't put any reads there so there isn't anything to learn from it.

Do think the unwnd/nopoint interactions day 1 are less likely to be s/s.

OK, so it's confirmed that you're a power role. I'm leaning town then

[Dunnstral]

Do you agree with me that there's likely scum on Nopoint's wagon?

I do

Yesterday I argued that it would be better to shoot nopoint instead of eliminating them

The idea behind that was that they were claiming watcher enabler, and even if mafia had a watcher, it was functionally useless (since the town all claimed)

But we bulldozed an elim on them anyway. it worked out in the end, but I don't think it was optimal play, and I don't think scum cared about anything but looking good

[Dunnstral]

I don't even believe that strongly in Dunn town with his literal 5 posts or something.
NM is super underwhelming this game and so I'm just like ... uh.

78 actually

Also this setup isn't balanced for town power wise if I'm not town

[Dunnstral]

After I saw the flip yesterday and examined during the night I was thinking Geraintm was likely to be scum

[Dunnstral]

I think we should finish mass claim today

And the reason I say that is I don't think town has any strong power roles remaining, if any at all

[Dunnstral]

nopoint being scum makes me feel better about FL

[Dunnstral]

Probably the vigilante and mafia targeted the same person

[Dunnstral]

^ You're right

[Dunnstral]

Except I do buy the claim

[Dunnstral]

Dunn has done literally nothing and I am currently not caught up or planning to. I don't see why I have to accept it?

I don't understand why you keep shading me like this

I've been doing things

[Dunnstral]

Where are we on mass claim?

[Dunnstral]

@dunn so assuming noraa or andres is one of the scum, who do you think the third scum is? What's your solve?

One step at a time please

I just want to get all the claims out

I don't think it's Unwnd or Insaneo

[Dunnstral]

Our gameplan:
9 people alive today' insaneo protects plusjoyed. We lim and shoot and mafia shoots, and we're at 6 tomorrow. With plus alive we repeat and go to 3 alive

So protecting plusjoyed tonight is important because we get 4 town kills, 2 mafia kills. But is plus dies we have 3 town kills 3 mafia kills

[Dunnstral]

I do think Gera should be vigged or elimmed tomorrow

[Dunnstral]

To be clear, the plan is I protect PlusJOYED and he vigs someone, right?

yes

[Dunnstral]

Before we go into night, wanted mass claim first but:

My role is Simple Cop, so I can't target people with power roles. We had a scum watcher already, I don't know if there would be a second power role for scum. I could buy one more.

Godfather isn't a normal role, by the way. And even if it was, I wouldn't be able to target him

[Dunnstral]

I know

I'm just outting my role for spec analysis

Whereas earlier it was a 'you guys don't need to know this' kind of thing

I wanted everyone else to claim first, but whatever

[Dunnstral]

Noraa this setup wouldn't be balanced for town if I weren't town

Complex Neighbor, Loyal Bodyguard, Vigilante

Is not a balanced town setup

So you can table your suspicion

Add on that there was a literal cop enabler flip

[Dunnstral]

don't shoot insaneo tonight

bad mechanical play

[Dunnstral]

yeah noraa is hammered

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand how no one instantly voted him when he'd claimed the flipped mafia role. That should have been automatic.

But other than that, GG, nice job PlusJOYED.

I would have if I had been here

[Dunnstral]

Looks like I was wrong on Unwnd though

[Dunnstral]

GG scum and thanks iv for hosting, nice set-up.

Excellent bodyguard shot insano

Yep I have to admit, that alone won Town the game. It made it super narrow.

Let me guess, you picked plus?

Yeah it was plusjoyed, all actions are in the mod PT

I hadn’t checked that yet. Nice! I would have done the same.

We had discussed this in thread

[Dunnstral]

I managed to hit a vt with my role, and even though the cop enabler died immediately, it feels like that made the game really hard for mafia along with the vig claim and bodyguard

Oh, I didn't notice because I literally stopped reading the game once Noraa started flooding it.

Same

[Dunnstral]

The problem with scums power being a watcher is that its useless if the entire town claims

[Dunnstral]

and then scum don't have any tools to deal with the entire town claiming