TENET - Game Over

[Dunnstral]

i think it would actually be an interesting mechanic to force this on scum and watch what they do to avoid the turnstile

I actually wouldn't be surprised if claiming this role is supposed to be their way of avoiding a turnstile.

oh. You think it's a gambit?

I think S_S needs death but there's a queue over there. We need to get to killing people, really

[Hench Princesses]

VLA 48 hours depression flaring up

We love you Titus! <3

[Brian Skies]

I honestly just feel like this is some last dash play by Titus thinking that claiming to protect Bell from the big bad Brian will make people think she's town, even though I'd already lost interest in the Bell wagon before she came back in to catch up.

[Titus]

i think it would actually be an interesting mechanic to force this on scum and watch what they do to avoid the turnstile

I actually wouldn't be surprised if claiming this role is supposed to be their way of avoiding a turnstile.

oh. You think it's a gambit?

I think S_S needs death but there's a queue over there. We need to get to killing people, really

This is just desperation. He needs something to attack me for. I've been highlighting the significance of reading SS since go.

[Hench Princesses]

@bccorp did you ever explain why you had me as hard scum?

-E

[Brian Skies]

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

Some more stuff for Dunn I guess.

[Dunnstral]

I think pisskop's entrance was good.

I think it was really null

[Dunnstral]

i think it would actually be an interesting mechanic to force this on scum and watch what they do to avoid the turnstile

I actually wouldn't be surprised if claiming this role is supposed to be their way of avoiding a turnstile.

oh. You think it's a gambit?

I think S_S needs death but there's a queue over there. We need to get to killing people, really

This is just desperation. He needs something to attack me for. I've been highlighting the significance of reading SS since go.

What is your read of S_S?

I don't agree with your assessment of Brian, he hasn't been omgus or desperate

[Dunnstral]

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

Some more stuff for Dunn I guess.

I don't really agree with SS' assessment of his own role.

Something to note: If they become tied together day 4, and we think one of them is scum, it's best to take care of them before day 4.

[Brian Skies]

If they become tied together day 4, and we think one of them is scum, it's best to take care of them before day 4.

According to S_S, they only become tied together if one of them TURNSTILES. So they wouldn't automatically become tied together on Day 4.

[Brian Skies]

I feel like if Titus is scum here, then the S_S wagon flared up either to protect her or to guarantee the S_S elimination. I haven't really been reading S_S posts though.

[Titus]

Town

Annie Edison (notscience/The Bulge)

Shitty wagon on them in the other thread
Obvtown
If anyone actually needs me to waste time here I will

Dunnstral unwnd

The fight between unwind and HP was very T v T.
Unwnd's replace out was genuine frustration, and his frustration was motivated at the game globablly. I'm also in the same place as him regarding the game.
Dunnstral hasn't changed my opinion on the slot.
I like posts like 3110 which suggest we actually start eliminating universal scumreads over here. It forces people to stop hiding in the background if town. Most town showed up to play. Brian hasn't.
Dunn's wrong on Bell regarding the crumb situation, but he's not being fake in his push at all here.
The opportunism from BS in 4367 reeks of setting Dunn up, like I've harped on.

Spiffeh

The way Spiffeh has played his read regarding me is town. He doesn't just townread me or scumread me. He has a genuine uneasyness which he owns up too. He started with the fact (correctly) that I wouldn't read this much as scum. I rarely read period, but this is a game one has to read to understand anything at all. As scum, I could easily puffer the thread with questions. Scum!Spiffeh could easily coast there and just townread me weakly forever. Instead, he pushes me for more accountability for my reads. He also has a certain sass which doesn't come from Spiffeh scum. Spiffeh scum is much more reserved and would be afraid to hedge on me.

Hench Princesses (Happy Unbirthday Boon/anon)

HP is a read I have waivered on, ngl. Yet, they are very tonally town. They opened with setup spec which I didn't like. But since then their tone has dramatically improved. They also have been asking questions to sort slots, rather than just asking people for their reads.

Hench's 2211 is particularly town because of it pushes me to have reads in both threads, not just the thread with SS. It's a genuine desire to get more information, rather than jumping to a conclusion at all. 2978 is a followup from that post, which suggests that HP is tracking things and following through. There's more than a day between the posts as well.

3267, while I believe it to be wrong now, is a decent case. It was definitely worth a sheep at the time and it's a great look at the motivations behind slots. It's frustrating because I feel like no one is actually looking at Brian's rationale for claiming what he did when he did as scum. Hench could have saved zmuffin for a later push given the PoE is so small. Having muffin as a get out of jail free card would be good for scum!HP. He didn't take it.

HP is also one of the few players to actually engage and give a reason why Brian is town, even if I disagree with it.

Bell

Bell is far outside his scumgame here. Bell flops like a wet fish and very much telegraphs his miseliminations. Here Bell hasn't been flopping like a wetfish. He didn't just automatically vote Brian, which would be easy to do in a scum him world. He should absolutely vote Brian and his comments are spot on, but the fact he doesn't shows he's not in a survivalistic mindset. Plus, if Brian was town in a scum!Bell world, his vote would keep a T v T going and scum!Bell would be an idiot not to vote Brian there.

Plus, there's the fact he's a doctor claim in a 20 v 6 game with 2 kpn. That alone should locktown him.

Gypyx

His push on me is the usual push that I would frequently scumread but comes from town. He was arguing a rare read against a more vocal and (at the time) a more townread slot. He's wrong about it, but the passion and fairness in his arguing are town.

zMuffinMan

I know it's one post, but zmuffin is town for not jumping on Bell when he had the chance to without difficulty. Bell is a claimed cop and zmuffin should be wanting to expand the PoE as scum given how much on the outskirts he is. He likely has very few allies over here too, which is all the more reason for keeping the PoE large.

zmuffin pushes back on his townread, which again is something scum!him should not be doing with the PoE as small as it is.

There's just no one else left who can be scum aside from Brian.

[Titus]

I feel like if Titus is scum here, then the S_S wagon flared up either to protect her or to guarantee the S_S elimination. I haven't really been reading S_S posts though.

More bullshit.

An SS wagon wouldn't protect me at all unless SS is also scum. The eliminations are independent. If SS is scum, you should be thankful for a scum elimination. It's almost as if you know though that if SS flips scum, he'll flip as I claimed though clearing me.

[Brian Skies]

going to have to take this in parts because it's kinda long but just reading down it seems predicated on flips of other people

Isn't this what the majority of this game is predicated on anyway?

Like, I don't really go 'oh these two players seem like they could be paired so one or both must be scum.' I was suspecting her for a bit based on some of her interactions, and while some of them can be explained by her role, her push on me is still scummy af and I'm probably going to end her for it.

Not to mention her vote on Muffin wasn't that great.

And I still think she was pussyfooting around Pisskop on Day 1.

[Brian Skies]

An SS wagon wouldn't protect me at all unless SS is also scum. The eliminations are independent. If SS is scum, you should be thankful for a scum elimination. It's almost as if you know though that if SS flips scum, he'll flip as I claimed though clearing me.

It would if their goal is to just get you past Day 2 and prevent the full thread clear.

[Titus]

An SS wagon wouldn't protect me at all unless SS is also scum. The eliminations are independent. If SS is scum, you should be thankful for a scum elimination. It's almost as if you know though that if SS flips scum, he'll flip as I claimed though clearing me.

It would if their goal is to just get you past Day 2 and prevent the full thread clear.

It wouldn't work either. SS doesn't flip first. Flips are at the same time.

[Brian Skies]

It wouldn't work either. SS doesn't flip first. Flips are at the same time.

Then we're in agreement that we're still eliminating you.

[Titus]

It wouldn't work either. SS doesn't flip first. Flips are at the same time.

Then we're in agreement that we're still eliminating you.

No. We're in agreement that you're desperate to eliminate me. There's no one else who is actually pushable as a miselimination because I won't let you.

That's precisely how you play negative utility.

[Brian Skies]

No. We're in agreement that you're desperate to eliminate me. There's no one else who is actually pushable as a miselimination because I won't let you.

That's precisely how you play negative utility.

I'm not really desperate at all. Even Dunn's realized this.

And even if you're town here (which I highly doubt), no one else seems to have a clue who scum are anyway.

Like, you're push on me has literally devolved into 'I'm just gonna towncase everyone else.'

Oh. So town.

[Titus]

No. We're in agreement that you're desperate to eliminate me. There's no one else who is actually pushable as a miselimination because I won't let you.

That's precisely how you play negative utility.

I'm not really desperate at all. Even Dunn's realized this.

And even if you're town here (which I highly doubt), no one else seems to have a clue who scum are anyway.

Like, you're push on me has literally devolved into 'I'm just gonna towncase everyone else.'

Oh. So town.

If there's no one left for town to miseliminate, they then vote to eliminate you. That's my goal. Even if they can't see you're scum today, they'll eventually reach the same place I am and vote for you.

[Titus]

Do you think anyone else can be scum Brian?

[Brian Skies]

Yes, actually.

You're the one I think is most likely to be scum.

[Titus]

Yes, actually.

You're the one I think is most likely to be scum.

Who?

Which of my towncases do you feel is wrong?

[Brian Skies]

I'm not going to read your towncases.

I don't think you're town.

We're eliminating you or we're eliminating me (I'm really fine with either).

[Brian Skies]

I think it should be pretty clear that I care a lot less about townreads at this point in the game. I don't think it's going to go anywhere.

The goal is to eliminate scum.