Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[unwnd]

I'll take your thoughts in consideration but don't think Gamma is a dope by any means and would be able to fake that conversation

[Hayker]

To really explain my misread guys, is I have ben playing this game primarily from my phone since the 31'st of December. It's been slow and cumbersome. I much appreciate having a keyboard to one again type my thoughts as opposed to a terrible touch screen that I find hugely frustrating to use. I am a doctor, I'm not sure what else to say. I don't know what we are missing here.

[Hayker]

unvote

I still think elements is worth looking at but I don't think any pressure will form on elements today. Currently re-rereading todays posts. Will do some isoing afterwards

[Hayker]

What they're doing IMO is either

1) Aware that (Hayker) is bound to die and trying to accredit themselves in ways that will make them look townier
2) Ignoring what's going on and trying to play fool as town will likely be more cautious about those who are inhibiting 1) behavior

You forgot option 3) Force an easy town lynch on the scummy looking town doctor.

I admit I made a pretty major error in judgement, but all I've done is create an easy situation for the scum to push the wagon right over me. Now everyones mindset is locked into one way of thinking and wont consider other options. If you guys are so worried about offing me, point the vig shot in my direction. The town points the vig shots after all right. So lets get back to hunting scum and not burning the town doctor as a witch.

[Dannflor]

If you guys are so worried about offing me, point the vig shot in my direction.

ah yes so the scum jailkeeper can protect you?

[unwnd]

What I need from you even if you're telling the truth is your reads as those will become what I will make you liable on. You made a mistake: move on and rectify it.

[unwnd]

3) Force an easy town lynch on the scummy looking town doctor.

Like, explain what this means?

[Dannflor]

I still think elements is worth looking at but I don't think any pressure will form on elements today.

to add on, what is this based off of? If it's based off of you being the defacto elimination, then there's no point pressuring anyone. The onus is rather on you to create that pressure.

[Datisi]

Vote count 2.05

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-01-13 23:45:00).

execution

Hayker [4]:

Gamma Emerald, unwnd, Kazyan, Lunar Martian

unwnd [1]:

Elements

Not voting [5]:

HeWhoSwims, Papa Zito, 2ndchosen1,

Dannflor

, Hayker

mod notes

~ prodding Gamma Emerald
~ prodding Elements
~ yeet

flavour

[Dannflor]

This IC stuff is really screwing with things. It's too easy for people to just shadow one person.

scum are probably in there

That's a weird assumption

No it’s not, it’s completely logical. It’s a pretty unassailable move to follow to person who has confirmed town motives on one level, and it spares scum from forming real stances. Scum also love to discredit conftown and a good way to do that imo would be to pile on while claiming you’re sheeping the IC, then once that flips wrong the IC’s reads lose some credibility so if they push you you can attack that.

This is actually something I take serious issue with.

Not only does it not make sense because Penguin, someone who did the very same sheeping flipped town, but because Gamma arguably is within that group. I don't recall any serious push Gamma has made this game and both yesterday and today he's followed me onto a wagon. It just reeks of having no intention of actually scum hunting and just shading a group of people while doing no further analysis. I would take less issue with such a claim if Gamma did any work to decide WHO among that group might be scum. As it is, it's like he'd fine with nuking anyone within that group which is like... not a townie way of approaching things?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: hayker
Yeah I’m gonna need a damn good reason to believe PP gets killed over a doctor
Assuming AGar was a vig shot rn btw

Also this is a strange reaction to the night kills and a strange reason to vote Hayker

obviously PP wasn't the night kill. I originally thought this mistake was townie, because scum knows who they killed and probably would be too self aware to play dumb like that but eh... I don't really know if it's scummy but it's very weird here to make these assumptions.

[Dannflor]

!!!!!!!!!! BEGIN PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!


PLAYSTYLE DISCUSSIONS DO NOT FIND SCUM

THIS GAME IS ENDLESSLY DEBATING PLAYSTYLE NONSENSE

LET'S FOCUS ON MESSAGE AND INTENT INSTEAD

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


!!!!!!!!!! END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!

this is still one of the towniest posts in the game tbh i forgot about this

[Dannflor]

I'm frustrated because NPOM, Elements and Penguin were very clearly just sheeping along with the IC. I can't really derive anything from that.

This IC stuff is really screwing with things. It's too easy for people to just shadow one person.

This stuff rubbed me wrong for similar reasons Gamma's did, in that it seems like an easy way to shade a group of people and lowkey discredit me. But rereading, Gamma's approach is actually worse, as he claims scum are probably within that group, a statement Papa Zito challenges. PZ is venting frustration here about not being able to find scum, not just stopping there and labeling the IC sheeping group as "some amount of scum in there."

[Dannflor]

So I spent a large part of my day yesterday reviewing an old game I played. Due to it, I believe Papa Zito to be town. Ill admit using meta from a long time ago is a bit foolish, but it gives me a read on him for the time being.

I still dislike Elememts, but id like to take a some time to put pressure on Ben. Id like to place

FoS:ben

his behavior in many ways reminds me of zito in KH mafia. He is a very active player, but a lot of his early game posts were arguing zbout game theory, which as Zito thankfully pointed out, was not advancing discussion. He's had few comments here and there that come off as buddying, such as a small comment Bsn madd toward Kazyan about knowing whats up. Been waffling on NPOM all day.

So I spent a large part of my day yesterday reviewing an old game I played. Due to it, I believe Papa Zito to be town. Ill admit using meta from a long time ago is a bit foolish, but it gives me a read on him for the time being.

Hayker, can you go into specifically what about Zito's meta created this read for you?

In KH mafia he spent a lot of time speaking about the fluffier elements in the game. A disemblodied voice was talking to us for awhile, and Zito was quick to engage in long winded discussion regarding it's place, even though it was just talking to us. He also analyzed generic game data, how many posts and so forth, while requesting prods for players from our mod. The rest of his posts will comments on other posts, occasionally throwing out things he found suspicious while applying no pressure.

This game he has come out swinging hard, applying votes, asking questions, trying to dig for information. I found Zito's exchange with Kazyan in particular to be interesting. It felt like his questions were both intended to get into Kazyan's mind, while also providing insight to a new player in this game.

Now I will once again note there has been a literally decade since back then, but I feel there is a huge difference in playstyle.

Agar, I invite you to read Papa Zito's iso in kh mafia and tell me what you see in the playbstyle differences

viewtopic.php?t=12809&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

As for why I didnt directly respond right away, I've been told in the oast it's not really a good use of time to respond to random wayward arguments towards you. I am aware I was asked to speculate in Agar's return, I have hsd very limited power on my phone as my electrical just was setup this morning from a moving process I did.

I'm a doctor btw, since I've been brought to L-1. Get off me.

One indicator of Zito's alignment probably lies in determining whether this progression from Hayker is more likely to be on a scum buddy or a random townie. Honestly, I should have examined this before I linked Hayker and Zito together because it's one of the most egregious relationships between them.

This read on Zito also has the curious status of being one of Hayker's only real pieces of content in the entire game. Looking at it now, I kind of read it more as a TMI read on a random townie? I'm curious in other people's thoughts on this, but in my experience, scum rarely spends most of their time early on in the game town casing a buddy (although it does happen). Instead, scum are more likely to pick a random townie to town case because it's easier to argue something that's true and produce content that way.

I don't see anything here that necessarily speaks to this being a buddy/buddy interaction, although I always thought it was odd how Zito never really commented on Hayker's fixation on his slot.

[Dannflor]

my town read on elements is far too stale and he's definitely been coasting since D1, wish he would do more

[Dannflor]

I feel the argument was hardly wayward, but I just...don't like that penguin and elements both jumped on that wagon so quickly together.

why should I think that this doctor call is even legit hayker?
I'd like to hear Penguin's and Element's reasoning or if it's just sheeping Agar?

there is 1 day as of this morning remaining. I've intent to hammer tonight at midnight if elements and penguin can provide said adequate explanation or if hayker doesn't provide one

someone asked about what I think of 2ndchosen1 as scum. While the slot doesn't have a lot of content, the content it does isn't bad? I don't really have any particular reason to scum read it over Hayker/Gamma/HeWhoSwims etc.

Also, this post doesn't necessarily feel buddied with Hayker. I don't think questioning the doctor claim as legit immediately after Hayker claims to get a last minute D1 wagon off of him is the first thing scum does in that situation.

[Dannflor]

@Gamma
hide the pain harold is a treasure, but why is the question about derp is worth asking when it doesn't really help to town or scum hunt?

I caught derp off awkward vibes really easy in the one game I played with them; if that's HWS I'm thinking HWS is town for not seeming like that atp

hmmm

[Dannflor]

Honestly, unless I'm all sorts of wrong about this game and like the NPOM/unwnd slot is scum it feels like mafia have given up. That's part of why I was so quick to jump to the Zito as scum theory simply because he was one of the few attempting to do *something* this day phase. But maybe the simpler solution is just that scum don't want to touch this day phase with a ten foot pole.

[Dannflor]

there's also the unsavory problem of Gamma being much more active elsewhere and not here at all

which is not like damning on it's own because I know town!Gamma can lurk but like... come play please?

[Hayker]

!!!!!!!!!! BEGIN PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!


PLAYSTYLE DISCUSSIONS DO NOT FIND SCUM

THIS GAME IS ENDLESSLY DEBATING PLAYSTYLE NONSENSE

LET'S FOCUS ON MESSAGE AND INTENT INSTEAD

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


!!!!!!!!!! END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!

this is still one of the towniest posts in the game tbh i forgot about this

And people question my read of him? In kh mafia he literally spent time speculating on this crap as long as he could justify.

[unwnd]

I'm not trying to provoke you hayker but I'd really like if you moved onto different things. I wasn't even in this game until now and I know that your PZ read is the only substantial take you've made. Dannflor believes you could be defending him as a mate and he is being subservient to you (and your claim) because of this.

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

[Dannflor]

Dannflor believes you could be defending him as a mate and he is being subservient to you (and your claim) because of this.

to be fair, I'm now believing Hayker was defending him as a TMI read

I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Is there anything more to your scum reads than this

[unwnd]

Honestly, unless I'm all sorts of wrong about this game and like the NPOM/unwnd slot is scum it feels like mafia have given up. That's part of why I was so quick to jump to the Zito as scum theory simply because he was one of the few attempting to do *something* this day phase. But maybe the simpler solution is just that scum don't want to touch this day phase with a ten foot pole.

So the activity is telling to you in terms of what's going on? I could possibly see that, but right now I think the only people who have truly engaged are me, you, PZ, and maybe Kazyan. Scum aren't usually prompted into activity, it's all based on aligned self-interest. You were mentioning in your small thoughtrant that you worry Gamma's activity would be telling, but I don't know if scum are just cornered. It doesn't feel that simple to me, rather I believe they're just waiting for their next best move. This is why I mentioned the game I was in (Innocent Things). I was scum there and I found myself having nothing to hide behind. Both me, FL and even nopoint were the most active posters on D1. The activity in that regard is telling to me that scum is not exactly directing the game, rather just finding comfortable ways to force content. We may have posted a lot but I don't feel like we necessarily controlled who was living or dying, rather our MO was mostly what I described.

[unwnd]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol