Large Normal 231 | Dead and Spectators Thread

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Whelp I died after replacing in and reading guess dead thread is important so that is not normal lol

I got no result from trying to role watch Andres

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Gonna at least copy paste here

Gun to my head Hayker Ranny are scum and since I died Ranny is scum almost certainly since Ranny hasn’t seen bad me.

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No mechanical impact, just a game to keep involvement up

Fun! Got it!

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Mind telepathy VOTE HAYKER and RANNY!!!

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/me facepalms ....Like why? Omfg

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in hindsight, I think its v possible that all/the majority of scum is in those players that weren't really calling me scum but still voted me (chk, mom, bina, norfolk, mola, andre?, nm) but the only problem with that theory is that it leaves some unknowns that could still be scum but I'm willing to buy into bad town pushing me as scum b/c they were uninformed and bad.

At best

, my elimination was an 80/20 split although I think it was more like 90/10 and the only thing that I did was "scummy" was get frustrated and self-voted. OFC I expect alot of "it was ur fault u got eliminated" b/c maturity and self-reflection is something lacking from most players.

Sorry to say but your wagon is probably mostly town. It was probably a town town migration. The Hayker wagon was prolly the good one

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Andres has to have PR info.

That’s the only way he’d be this off. That maybe his PR caught scum or something because that’s left field.

Hayker absolutely should be pushed here.

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Vaxkiller just obvTowned!!! Go Vax!

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That’s typical Bypass

Ranny is scum. I was masons with them in a game. Their meta is waaay different here. If I was alive I tunnel Hayker +Ranny. Quiet could be scum but ugh. Even Titus maybe but I don’t think she fear kills me.

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Plus just doesn’t care about all the noise whatever Plus’s alignment is

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Now smart!Titus and smart!Andres remember I was halfway decent with Ranny and that even if my reads are shit I can town block. If they both remember Ranny and I were masons together I think they put this together

Just Andres seems uninterested and I am like why?

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Good post by bypass Titus maybe scum who was convinced to fear kill me by Ranny

Hayker Ranny Titus Quiet? Viable but I am a bit nervous one could be town and just messed up on

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1222 is a Hayker+Ranny death sentence imho

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Andres stop spamming here left town talk ffs

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Go Norwegian Gooooo! Town collectives not town dictators!!!

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Hayker, Luca, chkflip scum team

You can accolade me later

had me thinking that ranny puts a scumbuddy in this list and it was chk

Possible but there was a post that made me obvTown chip lemme see if I can find it again

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viewtopic.php?p=12487056#p12487056

If chkflip is scum chkflip is playing the long game. I don’t see chkflip intentionally antagonizing/drawing attention with Titus regardless of her alignment if chkflip is scum. This seems like genuinely sorting her when scum could have laughed it off. I don’t think chkflip is scum.

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we can just rolecop chk tonight

Uhm how?
We have a doctor iirc? Confused

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Ooh it’s both yay

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Might not need that chkflip and Vax caught on that chkflip was claiming PR on Titus

Scum shoulda killed Andres or Norway or Not Mafia

Their reads were not really vocal but killing me is just wrong lmao

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Damn here I was hoping and salivating for a Titus guilty too but I still think she is scum

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No Andres is just stubborn people

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Sigh Andres dude...neon signs seriously. You’ve left your opinion interact. Who ELSE was in that game Andres? Look it up!!

Is Andres seriously ascetic scum with Titus here? No he’s just the “me” this game maybe

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No way Norway fear kills me. Unless wrong on Titus and that was scum motivated and swap Titus with Norway and Ranny convinced Norway? I don’t see that.

Not Mafia maybe trolling for reactions but that Unvote says they did visit me. Odd

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Lol bc tunnels on me every game. That is pretty much a clue BC isn’t scum lol

Not Mafia is trolling I think. Why the hell he destroyed the Titus wagon I don’t know

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lol

BC is so sore that they played poorly that he's trying to blame it all on me. what a tool.

Bc is a they btw

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Basha on Critical role back in a bet

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if NM has a guilty then they have a guilty and that's the correct push.

Agreed it is the correct thing to do if it’s true.

I just don’t think it is and Not Mafia townreads Titus.

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If Norway is scum (who should be elimmed) Titus is town and Ranny is lock scum. Titus isn’t scum with Norway and fear kills me
That makes like no sense

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is BC gonna STFU and move on or just gonna keep projecting their bad play on me?

Man if I was in thread they’d stop.

I gave them a verbal tongue lashing and got them to stop tunneling obvTown and we got scum!Diego.

Like they get an idea and just can’t shake it sorta like me

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This type of dynamic is exactly where I thrive and townblock as much as I hate blocks ugh

Possible
Titus/NM/Ranny is possible
But realistically Norway/Ranny more likely

Because if Norway didn’t visit me like a VT Norway just claims VT or PR that did visit to confirm NM and Norway

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i mean BC doesn't seem all that good so its not surprising.

They have moments they’re really good. It’s sorta a swingy thing with them.

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Omg I am an idiot
Norway isn’t Norfolk lmao

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what if the points to it being a titus/nm team? like i don't see a world where town nm stops a titus wagon for shit all reasoning.

Titus/NM/Norfolk/Ranny?

Ranny wants to fear kill me
Titus agrees and uses her gambit of guilty ing a buddy?

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Nah just Hayker Norfolk Ranny Quiet probably.

Titus +NM+Norfolk+Ranny is a moon logic

Pretty sure Norfolk is scum here just a matter of who with

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I'm not sure that NM would bus Norfolk just to save Titus and assuming norfolk flips scum I think that prob means NM is town but it says nothing about Titus so maybe Norfolk+Ranny

That’s where I am at. It’s why it’s moon logic as it’s possible. But I think Titus is miselim bait the more I think and it’s really just Ranny being scared it’s me. Or Titus could be scum and NM town.

I just wish I was a vig rather than a role watcher lmao

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viewtopic.php?p=12510443#p12510443

What do you make of this Nero?

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I have an opinion on it but I kinda wanna see your thoughts

Pedit: not likely. Not mafia rescinds it in an hour if it’s a fake troll then focus comes back on me

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Keep in mind if Not Mafia is truth telling then scum don’t have a townread scum.

Why send Norfolk?

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and while its possible that, like u say, scum could have avoided my wagon and let bad town eliminate me I think its totally possible the scum could have tried to wagon me.

I mean if I am scum I push you when able because you’re shit start of game and good reads later. I generally kill you midgame or elim you early if I can. (Sorry if a bit blunt) Usually you don’t give me that opening.

There wasn’t really a scum incentive though which means your wagon is prolly town

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I think it’s too honest. It reads as what he said and not a bus and scum were planning to bus Titus like Quiet was.

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He was going to join later

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85010

I don’t understand your question but this is town Ranny for perspective

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When I replaced in we were masons. So I got in his head a lot.

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I mean if I am scum I push you when able

exactly.

if I had just gotten off v/la and not psted it up yet b/c I hadn't read all the 30 pages I missed then it gives players like norway a chance to scream that I'm not playing to my town meta.

That’s not really able though. That’s inventing wagons. I as scum let town do the heavy lifting of the initial suggestion. That way it doesn’t go anywhere. (I’ve started to make my town meta match and have been better off sometimes)

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I’m thinking Titus/Ranny

push town, bus buddy?

im saying that norway maybe pushing town (titus) and bussing his buddy (ranny)

Possible. I want Ranny dead. Too bad there doesn’t seem to be a vig.

With a scum here being outed in Norfolk or NM (likely at least one) then another in Ranny we may be able to slow play this.

This hyperposting is going to do town in.

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Maybe I am gonna take a chill pill for a bit and see what develops.

Too many theories.

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Lmao momrangal I ended up being masons with them too lmao

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They don’t fear kill me though. They were scum in a recent game I am in and I am 85% sure this is their town meta

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That day entrance from mom made me happy I replaced in

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Just gah that post from Titus makes me think Titus Norfolk Ranny Hayker Quiet

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Or you’re wrong Andres omfg

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viewtopic.php?p=12510757#p12510757

Mom you’re being bad without your papa.
(Inside joke. We’re older than most MS players so we used mom and papa/dad as our crumbs when we were masons)

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Now Andres is back to goodness poking quiet. Much better

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Whelp that’s a thing.

Destroyed a genuine Titus wagon in order to claim Norfolk visited me. NM will inevitably get pushed tomorrow despite the fact he has probably roleblocked. He could be scum but if so it would have to be Titus+NM+Ranny+Hayker+Quiet or something very similar to that.

If NM is town that was terrible.

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It’s almost like Not Mafia went to the school of fake a guilty that Radiant Cowbells believes in. *sigh*

I kinda wanna see what Titus is to see what alignment Not Mafia is kinda like a two for one.

Thoughts?

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Oh and

Doctor Andres

Rolecop Titus

Just leaving this here Nero can veto just didn’t want to forget

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If Titus is town and then NM is prolly town and my original reads list is right we’re fucked
If Titus is scum then NM could be scum and then maybe town doesn’t do the “smart” thing and run NM up immediately that’d be awesome. We need town to be not “smart” tomorroe.

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I genuinely hope that Not Mafia enjoyed that and is laughing at how easy it was to wagon me.

The only thing I don't get is why he chose me?

To be frank I don’t know either.

It’s either “I am soooooo smart” as town OR
“Must save Titus another day” as scum making Titus a high value scum PR

Titus could fear kill me by herself if she is a really important PR
But Titus+Ranny makes more sense
And Not Mafia having a case of ego or roleblocked.

Like no scum or town visited Andres which is odd AF.

Mass roleblock maybe?

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Yeah it’s just odd. I would expect at least one person town or scum to visit Andres. It’s odd

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No result would be Andres ascetic or I was roleblocked which is still weird
Why roleblock and kill me?
Seems excessive

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Unless Andres traitor maybe? Ascetic BP traitor?

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Or forced PGO but again Andres would claim negative utility if town
Like what is this game?

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we can just have norfolk rolecop chk

Agreed on the dumpster fire.

I am assuming you mean have Norfolk rolecop check someone? We know Norfolk is a VT from Norfolk’s flip.
I am down for that if Norfolk wants someone else.

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"I get to troll"

I suspect that this is the answer.

From Not Mafia's claim to elimination was around 7 hours, wasn't it? And I was asleep for 4 of them!

So, should I confirm that rolecop?

If you think it’s a good idea yeah.

If you have a better idea for who to fake doctor and who to rolecop then go for it!

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Now I am waffling to fake flip Andres because no result is weird and I want to know if I was roleblocked and killed or if Andres is ascetic.

Damn this is hard

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Nobody questioned whether Not Mafia was telling the truth. Nobody. And then it was over.

I still think Morway is town, but he's having an absolute western this game.

I'm happy rolecopping Chkflp.

Quiet did but that makes him scummy tbh.

The site meta is don’t attack the guiltier (which makes sense)
But when it’s a not mafia troll you should but no one would except me

Kinda makes sense if Titus scum Not Mafia scum Ranny scum
They couldn’t leave me alive as I would call that being a Titus play.
So if Not Mafia and Titus are scum
They probably chat and debate who to kill maybe Andres
Then decide to do the gambit where Not Mafia fakes a guilty
Then Ranny hears the suggestion to kill Titus which causes him to make his honesty post.

It’s moon logicky but it fits. Then people forget about my death as it wasn’t recent. Risky af


I am cool rolecopping chkflip but I am pretty sure chk is town here.

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It’s more likely Not Mafia is town and eating an elim tomorrow.

Rolecop chkflip

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I am good. Think it’s just Nero who needs to agree.

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Damn I will eat my words. I am just gotta go wtf this game
Scum shoulda kept me alive lmao

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I would do mom then. My reads are horrible and the reads list was bad. If that reads list she did ignored chkflip she coulda tried townslipping earlier. Maybe Titus is town and mom killed me and I was so focused in my VCA I missed it.

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I am cool rolecopping chkflip but I am pretty sure chk is town here.

Gobble gobble gobble.
Man these words hurt.
Ouch.

I will keep eating them

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She just doesn’t seem like her scum game that she was caught in though. That’s what made me think Ranny. That and what he said about the hood.

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At this point though I would consider I am stupid and sheep your butt if you were alive

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If Andres doesn’t die I wanna role cop him tonight though.

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The next night whatever

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Or mom or Titus or hell Cyberpunk is calling my name

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Hi Koba...This is bad. Let’s hope town isn’t stupid. Redirection and other crap isn’t normal so Not Mafia will eat rope today and if not mafia is town we are f’in screwed. At least the dual players same avatar is gone. That was confusing af

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what if it's just literally mom, nm, chk and norway? 3 of the 4 scum push a bullshit meta case b/c I caught/was pushing their buddy d1.

Nero you've done nothing but call NM trolling scum. Do you even have a comment about the Hayker wagon?

nm is just trolling scum and the claim isn't great either.

You got any other takes Master Cain? You’re starting to sound like a broken record.

Both town probably. That type of thought that close is not likely sheeping.

I mean in hindsight it did cross my mind that these were scum that were chainsaw defending NM but Norway pushing Andre may mean its an SvT situation.

I don’t get fearkilled in that world. Mom may fear me a little but not mafia would talk mom out of it with how bad I am as town sometimes. If NM is scum Titus or Ranny would be needed. I don’t think mom would be scared of me that much. It’s possible as she was scum in an alt game that got caught quickly but you’d have to take out Norway and replace with Titus or Ranny. Norway probably isn’t scared of me either

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The other possibility is Titus, Ranny, chkflip Norway and Titus was TMI Not mafia town

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I just really feel Ranny is scum. He’s so different than our mason game

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have u thought that u weren't so much as a fear kill as a "keep the status quo" kill?

That likely wouldn’t be a thing with such good players as Andres.
He’s like a god tier fear kill.
It’s possible but the team would have to have almost no Andres experience which I find doubtful with this many older players.

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Yeah I think we need NM’s flip then rolecop Ranny or Mom.

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Anywho who do we want to rolecop?

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Then andres doesn’t shoot you. I just really think Andres is town

Rolecop Titus

If anyone disagrees speak up or forever hold your peace

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Down for whatever. I have stuff tonight so can’t comment.

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I still don't think Not Mafia is scum. There's just no way that scum wastes a fakeclaim and the inevitable aftermath on me, especially so early in the game.

I am the absolute worst at this game.

Don’t worry we’re all eating words here. It’s tasty. It helps reads improve.

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How about don’t tear each other to shit when we’re supposed to cooperate? How about you each go look at what you saw that was wrong so you can fix it next time.

Sure Titus is fine mom is fine

I would say doc Andres but that seems to be a disagreement so doc whoever

I agree to literally whatever

I have to go and won’t have time further til tonight

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Wanna tell us if you used your strongman?

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Why’d y’all kill me? I am notoriously bad.

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Andres woulda been a waaaay better kill

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why kill ur own teammates?

Damn it Koba I was reaction testing. I wanted to see if NM would spew Andres town. Slow down a little and let things happen.

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We are in a subgame that has no effect on the real one. We’re just using parts for lulls. It’s a way to try to keep engagement up after death.

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I picked Norfolk because he was quiet so he would make a believable tracker guilty and cos I knew he was in UK timezone so I could build a wagon before he woke up

You're an evil genius.

Probably coached. Long day I am beat. Sorry y’all will read later.

Go dead town go!

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I don’t think we agreed. I kinda wanna doc Andres I don’t think he’s scum but Nero does.

And yeah Titus is the reveal if I follow.

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Why did I die? Mom scum? I don’t get it. But lol rolestop ping Andres.

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Irritating that I can’t call him out on it. Oh well. Out of my hands though.

Titus looks bad with the NM flip because killing MB implicates her, and NM might have acted out in order to take the attention off that. I was trying to get Titus to say it yesterday, but scum coordinated to end the day early.

Titus is flipped town in the PT. I would advise reading the thread because we are still having fun trying to figure out the scum team. Each night/day we doc someone and rolecop someone. I thought Titus was scum too but I can’t for the life of me figure out why I was shot unless mom is scum.

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Maybe it was just WIFOM like I said.

Pretty sure quiet is scum. Posturing that he wants a longer day while holding the door open for NM.

I agree with you but I am scared as my reads have been bad.

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Looks like chkflip is winding up for a push on Titus. It makes sense that they would kill MathBlade so they would be able to do that down the line. I thought of that over the night and then forgot it.

FWIW I protected Andres both nights I was able. I’m not sure he’s town but it felt right at the time.

You ruined mine on the night I died. I expected Andres to die so I role watched him to try to get a scum role XD

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i think mom is scum, not sure on who the 4th is. Would be funny if Noway is the 4th.

That’s where I am at.

If scum know the history between me and Titus then they also know I am bad (almost always) when Titus gets in my head. So they wouldn’t kill me more than likely so that’s why I am stuck in fear kill mode.

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+1 on what Ranny said but definitely sheep the Mom cop.

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Hi Minimegabyte.

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I didn’t even know you were in this game lol.

I replace in almost exclusively when I play I know it’s a thing. No worries

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They aren’t for everyone. Some people also tend to post waaay too much and treat things like IRC and want an immediate gratification rather than a slow burn. I hope you had fun at least?

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I just always replace in because I hate RVS

I am a robot. Random and I don’t compute

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Hey kinda chilling watching Critical Role what’s up?

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Well that woulda gone bad for us lol

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Lol I am scum in the dead thread that’s how much Nero scum reads me lol

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Legitimately I don’t know I am behind because reasons. Will catch up later but I am halfway tempted to say roleflip Bina so we know what result Bina could have on mom

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We can flip him and find out?

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Sure

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Yep probably should have cced NM claim. Sorry about that, norfolk boy.

No you shouldn’t.

Not mafia was looking for PRs.

In that case you do exactly as you did. Very impressed quiet.

Granted I scumread you but things that seem “stupid” ie doubting a claimed PR results can get you one more day.

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Probably played my hand too far, needed to be a little more subtle. Hopefully they pick up at least on me saying “chkflp is my overnight scum read, but seeing as I got no results I’ll move on”, I think that’s decently clear given my roleflip.

Anyway, feedback appreciated, this is my 2nd game of any kind of serious mafia. Fun playing with y’all!

I remember playing with you before

Maybe I am old and wires crossed?

But you did good. Most things just come with time

Then again I am much better scum than town.

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The negatives help at end game every little bit is helpful.

Every game is a learning process

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I don’t get why I died.

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viewtopic.php?p=12552089#p12552089 Lmao damn where’s a day doctor where you need one

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Check Norway I guess?

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I sheep whoever

This game is a giant cluster and I get none of it.

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I sheep Nero. I quit reading a long time ago.

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I don’t get why I died.

Because I'm fucking afraid of you, duh. <3

I couldn't have another competent voice coming in fucking my mood up.

Oh thank you <3 Usually people laugh at me. It’s nice to hear this.

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Thing is, there's a lot of variables there. There were TWO protects and a role block N1. One protect and one block N2. Then repeat N1 on N3.

Odd-night Serial Killer makes a lot of sense.

Odd night vig OR
Odd night SK w/ even night powers makes more sense

An SK that can’t kill every night in this setup needs wicked PR to balance.

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I townread you hard Vax <3 you snowed me

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Uhm I kinda quit reading when I died. I only did my usual VCA / skim.

I never read the whole thing as I get killed sometimes on replace in especially conf town slots

Sorry mama

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I tend to replace into large behemoths and like I ain’t reading all that lol.

I usually do vote counts first few pages and last few.

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Hey my initial reads weren’t entirely horrible.

BBMolla is SK.

Can’t release my notes til the game is over but I was better before scum killed me lol

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Rc Norway that’s fine too we’re playing guess the SK

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Sure I could be wrong

I would just sheep you right now or Nero anyway

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There’s an SK role (not normal) that I would love to talk with you about later Mizzy.

I think it would absolutely help the SK and give the SK some fake claims.

Can’t type it out while at work and kinda don’t want to share it.

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I know what I want to do to help the SK but I agree that SK as it is is underpowered.

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Yay. Nice work. I almost won as an SK replace in once made a shitty kill at the end.

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SK is both town and scum and solo. It’s underpowered because it has the responsibilities of both and the difficulties of both.

Town SK and Scum should have approximately equal win rates if balanced

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But yes I bow to you winning despite underpowered

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Ahhh thanks! That is indeed correct I was talking in general

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None of my horrible reads were ever shared! So I guess I did good lmao *self humor*

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does anyone have some insight into the fine art of differentiating lurky scum from lurky town? I feel like I'm consistently on the wrong side of that trade. Like, it feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation, where pushing a slot like that can sometimes feel like a blameless LHF type situation that gives practically zero info, but lurking generally is scummy with enough frequency that you have to take it into consideration when making reads. Like, I'm sure there's genres to lurking, from active lurking to opportunisitcally lurking to whatever other fancy terms there are, I'm interested in the methodologies people use to sort out one from the other.

I thought Cheeky's slot was a good example of scumLurk that I could understand the argument for when it was pointed out to me, but frankly, I don't think I would have been able to come up with the difference between Hayker, Cheeky, or plusJoyad without someone else pointing it out.

Depends on the players.
If multiple lurkers odds are if pushed town, if not scum.
If one lurker, then read them by associatives
This is a general rule and doesn’t work for trolly players and not foolproof
It’s why pushing lurkers is usually a shit elim but good for reads.
You can then build associations and go from there.

Eg you push town lurker A. B defends A. You have a reason and can see if good or TMI.
I do reads by associations as most people do they just don’t say so.

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In general unless you townread a majority of players best to avoid lurkers.

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does anyone have some insight into the fine art of differentiating lurky scum from lurky town? I feel like I'm consistently on the wrong side of that trade. Like, it feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation, where pushing a slot like that can sometimes feel like a blameless LHF type situation that gives practically zero info, but lurking generally is scummy with enough frequency that you have to take it into consideration when making reads. Like, I'm sure there's genres to lurking, from active lurking to opportunisitcally lurking to whatever other fancy terms there are, I'm interested in the methodologies people use to sort out one from the other.

I thought Cheeky's slot was a good example of scumLurk that I could understand the argument for when it was pointed out to me, but frankly, I don't think I would have been able to come up with the difference between Hayker, Cheeky, or plusJoyad without someone else pointing it out.

intent in actions -how they make excuses for lack of content, etc.
Theres a consistent way to read the vibe of lurky players. Push them to vote, to answer questions abt important conflicts in thread for instance.

This push but don’t elim.

There’s a few exceptions but that’s meta related.
Eg if I or Koba are lurkers worry lmao

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Your push will tell you if they should be elimmed

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I just mean you and I hyperpost.

It’s more worry about the player rather than alignment.

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Hey stranger! My reads weren’t bad this game. (Because they never got posted but still) lmao

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Agreed Norway deserves it!

#rooting for the SK!

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Can’t be Luca he’s mod conf town here so if scum exists it’s Andres

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No one definitely not mafia would troll so smooth they’re doing the Cha Cha now y’all.

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I’m what the fuck
No elim should’ve happened when TWO people voted it

I think this is correct btw

I didn't know this, and was just going off how I wrote my rules and the fact it passed review. I'm sorry if I made a mistake

I should have told you sorry Mizzy.

No elim threshold is once enough players vote to where a elim is impossible.
On evens it is 1/2
Odd it is 1/2+1.