TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[lilith2013]

boop

[Auro]

I think her team’s response probably got her more emotional about it but I don’t know/think if that really changed what her reaction would have been like. Are you suggesting that she faked an emotional response and pinning it on her teammates?

Her reaction independent of that would have been to just carry a conversation with AL digging into it, while maybe just expressing a similar dislike, no?

I won't say she faked emotion, it's totally possible to have the same emotion if you think you're unfairly (or for "bad reasons") being read as scum even if you're scum. I got the feeling that her team *told* her to respond aggressively and attack AL in that way, post which she did.

I also voted her, expressed a strong scumread on her and pushed her - have you read her general response to that? What would you make of it?

[Auro]

Are your questions because you think super is being scummy and are trying to convince me of that or because you’re trying to sort me?

Latter. I think I have better reasons to believe town!Super now.

Joqiza mentioned he's an easy to read player, and I believe that. I think it's optimal for a hypothetical TM team to recruit someone easy to read to replace a town slot.

[lilith2013]

okay, helps to know whether we are just arguing for the sake of arguing

[lilith2013]

should note that a few days ago I started making a list of people I thought couldn’t be scum together, and based off the list I was inclined to say super was town because there were very few people I thought she could have been partnered with. Obviously a bit of a moot point now, but I want to say that I’d be independently townreading her

[lilith2013]

I think her team’s response probably got her more emotional about it but I don’t know/think if that really changed what her reaction would have been like. Are you suggesting that she faked an emotional response and pinning it on her teammates?

Her reaction independent of that would have been to just carry a conversation with AL digging into it, while maybe just expressing a similar dislike, no?

I won't say she faked emotion, it's totally possible to have the same emotion if you think you're unfairly (or for "bad reasons") being read as scum even if you're scum. I got the feeling that her team *told* her to respond aggressively and attack AL in that way, post which she did.

I also voted her, expressed a strong scumread on her and pushed her - have you read her general response to that? What would you make of it?

In my head I think the main impact of super’s team was that she came out with this coherent set of points against infinity, which I think is similar to what you’re saying. I think her independent reaction would have had the same tone as her last paragraph though - eg “WHY would you go after your deepwolf read?????????” I think her team maybe also led her to miscontrue some of what infinity was saying as if it were a push on her when he was just expressing thoughts - I don’t think intentional winding up but that’s my guess as to what happened.

have not read that far

I’m not sure if I’m understanding what you’re trying to get at and therefore don’t think I’m responding in a way that’s helpful for you to sort me. I suppose it’s up to you if you want to clarify what you’re looking for or just keep asking questions

[joqiza]

thanks for the posts joqiza!

re: koba I agree, which is why I said a while ago that koba was “probably town but I didn’t want to townread them.” I think they have elements to their playstyle that are like scummy regardless of alignment, like that they have an agenda or sometimes an ass-backwards view of the game but it doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

Can you explain the differentiation between the first null group and second a bit more? Johnny was also reluctant to join a wagon on infinity, so what sets him apart from chennis/fb/auro?

The differentiation between my null groups is like my guess as to whether they'll stay null or not. My own prediction there might turn out to be wrong, and I'll find out in a bit--I've set aside some time this afternoon for the game. I'll also try to clarify why I split up the groups that way, but it might come across a bit incoherent just cause it was one of those initial impression / formless gut sense things.

On my read-through chen/fb/auro got lumped together in my head as "decent sounding blokes who were nice to Super." I'm sure there's distinctions to be made, like I had a few thoughts on each player... the way I try to solve games is recursive. Now that I feel like I've sorted you and Menalque, I want to go back, and in the context of you two being town, try to evaluate those three more deeply.

With Johnny, my main impression was that he was mostly absent, and then 180'd on Super and placed a vote down on me following the substitution. Which is not great, surface level. I think the reason I predict he's gonna stay in that second null category is he mentioned he has a newborn son, which I believe, of course. And while that's NAI itself, it does mean that he has an entirely valid reason for being somewhat absent, a life event which is far, far more important than following a forum mafia game, and so... yeah. Basically I think it's gonna be harder to distinguish between: (villager distracted by life events) vs. (wolf distracted by life events), than it would be to simply distinguish between (villager) and (wolf).

I think with Johnny too I have an intuitive caution about slots like him that seem like LHF, which, as I think about it, might not actually be relevant in a nightless. On my home site, the way most games play out really, is that you wanna chop wolves early, as early as you possibly can, because in any given game there are only a handful of strong town players who can actually get wolves chopped effectively, and if you wait around too long those voices get killed off and the game devolves. The same problem shouldn't exist in this setup, I don't think. Flipping a town!LHF slot doesn't seem like it would damage town in that same manner.

[T-Bone]

Mathblade replaces DkKoba effective immediately.

Vote Count

Autumn Leaves - 3

(Joqiza, Menalque, Auro)

JohnnyFarrar - 2

(chennisden, Lilith2013)

Menalque - 2

(Mathblade, Firebringer)

Joqiza - 1

(JohnnyFarrar)

Not Voting - 2

(Autumn Leaves, Flopz)

Activity Check - Prodding JohnnyFarrar and Flopz.

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to remove politely

Deadline: (expired on 2021-01-29 21:00:00)

[lilith2013]

rip fell asleep and lost my post. sad D:

hi mathblade!

[joqiza]

can you explain what you found genuine about 1069[/post?

last time i 1v1d you you just ragequit so i won there, and i was actually scum there, so there's 0 chance of that here especially on my home turf <3

Kinda just comes down to vibes, but just felt like something they'd be more likely to say as town than as scum. For context, that 1v1 they're referring to is a game of TinyHunt, in which scum!Koba pushed on town!Super aggressively until she subbed out. I think Koba's thought here is something along the lines of, "I beat you by making you leave the game, and I did that when I was scum and you were town, so if I'm town here and you're scum, I should be able to beat you even easier." It's not unfakeable (nor is it a pleasant line of thinking), but it was one that stuck out to me.

Also, hi mathblade, welcome.

[MathBlade]

Hi everyone catching up! Just got notification I was replaced in but I am on a RPG call for a few hours.

If everyone could give me a quick paragraph of the game so far from your perspective (and not any teammates) to get a feel that’d be awesome. Will start from that and read during lulls.

[lilith2013]

- infinity (autumn leaves) pressured early, I think defused by chennis who said gamestate didn’t feel right / townbloc too easy (oh my LORD now that i’m writing this it does sound quite partnery)
- lots of shitfights between koba and super
- infinity mentions some suspicion on super being deepwolf, super responds by pushing infinity, mena replaces in and infinity calls him scum, mena calls infinity scum, lots of yelling between mena, koba, infinity, super (I’m still trying to reread this part because it got really confusing)
- infinity tried to start mini wagon on flopz (presumably when it seemed like pushing mena/super wasn’t going anywhere)
- mini wagon on Johnny without much of a counterwagon
- we are around here now?? not sure if I missed anything important

[lilith2013]

most recent reads

I have here the shittiest readslist of all time:

not willing to eliminate today: mena/joqiza/flopz
willing to eliminate today: auro/chennis/johnny/fb/koba!slot(pending)/infinity

[lilith2013]

fwiw I don’t think we should wait a ton longer to end D1. we’re all just going to get apathetic if this drags out much longer. I think we should let mathblade get caught up and hopefully I can finish my reread and then let’s start wagoning people. I think we’re already starting to flag (get it? ha I’m so funny).

ask for everyone if you haven’t done this recently:
- quick readslist (can be as quick as mine above, ie willing to elim vs not willing)
- ideal elim for today

[Autumn Leaves]

Unwilling to elim: lilith, mena
Not a preferred elim: fire, math, joqiza
Preferred elims: chenn, flopz, auro, johnny

Really not sure who my favorite elim is, and this could change pending joqiza content/talking to kanna

[lilith2013]

When/why did chennis move into your bottom tier?

[Autumn Leaves]

Idk, he'd be at the top of the bottom tier I think

Mostly I had to re-evaluate based on joqiza being towny so far (and mena being towny before that). I don't think my reasons to TR chenn are strong enough for this point in the game. Ydrasse also is influencing the read somewhat.

[Firebringer]

Reads List:

Unwiling to elim: Everyone not named mena
willing to elim: Mena


General reads list in order of townieness to least:
Super slot, Koba slot, Lilitth 2013, Auro, Infinity, , Flops, Johnny, Chennisden, mena

General tier brackets:
{Koba slot, Super slot}
{Lilith, auro}
{Intinify}
{flopz, johnny}
{Chennisden}
{Mena}

[lilith2013]

fb can you summarize reasons for scum!mena?

[Firebringer]

I don't think i am gonna convince you he is scum. Nor do I think it will convince u i am town. So don't see the point.

[lilith2013]

): not even a sentence or two?

[Firebringer]

I think his case on infinity isn't strong, its based on pure protection of his own slot which shouldn't be read as AI to begin with. I think he originally was going for infinity because of how super was pushing it, mena approached this game same way as Super. His reads i think aren't genuine and i think he is using a tunnel to make up for that so people will go "ohh yeah mena iin tunnel mode ofc his reasoning on everything is clouded when you look at all other reads".

I wrote this out, it won't convince anyone. It won't tell u town, but hey. I gave u 2 sentences.

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

Actually if your case study is mastina. Dont include it ive seen her make that entrance as town and scum. Outside of mastina. Has any town said something like this.

[lilith2013]

thank you