I expect exactly one scum player will have sent a peach to spf. No more, possibly but unlikely less, given the setup's high chance of tracker-family roles.
why would scum send a peach to someone they are killing?
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE
I am confused at Nora's proposition of Pink Ball being scum as well as me. As far as I'm concerned, Pink Ball is my strongest townread who correctly read Spring Breeze as scum and SPF as town. I don't read Nora's defence of Spring Breeze leading up to the elimination as being alignment indicative because I could see Nora hard tunnelling people as obv town/obv scum because that just seems to be how they operate. But let's say if Nora is town here they were wrong about Spring Breeze and they're wrong about me being scum so I'm pretty sure they're just wrong about Pink Ball. That said, I suppose there's a reason why she's being insistent and I'll wait to hear. Although my team thinks it's extremely unlikely they did tell me a coordinated D1 scum bus happened in a previous Team Mafia game. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that Pink Ball is scum who bussed Spring Breeze.
Trackers typically don't track separate night actions just who visits or is visited right? In that scenario if scum believe there's a tracker in the game I think the proposition they would vend fruit to try to hide their kill on the same target makes sense. Especially if they have reason to believe there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches, it would be in their interest to prevent peaches from falling into the hands of town. But the counterpoint to that is scum could still kill their target and claim to have vended them fruit because their target wouldn't be alive to verify this anyway and it's not like tracker can ascertain the difference. And if there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches for scum too why wouldn't scum just vend peaches between themselves?
Finally, I reckon MariaR was attempting to create a wagon onto me halfway through D1 and it coincided with shifting people off an early Spring Breeze wagon. Then she goes from calling Spring Breeze obv town to hammering them. The connection here is pretty clear to me.
This is like, the most obvious thing you would check for with this setup though and very competent mods and PenguinPower all looked at it
well, if i understeand correctly, everyone has a different fruit right? or at least there's a huge variety, so like, that just tells us that fruit vendor can't be fake-claimed
In post 2036, SirCakez wrote:One thing with the case - why can't SB and Pooky just be scum buddies rather then SB pocketing Pooky?
In post 1975, Pink Ball wrote:You know, the point of inflection. The naked vote. The lack of explanation. The paranoia. What's worse than being scumread as scum? Being scumread and not knowing why. You convince yourself that you're doing something wrong, but you don't know why. You have based your game on not being judged, yet someone is doing it. You have no real insights to give and the guy who's scumreading you isn't giving you his own insights to reply to.
Really good point.
Ok after reading that PB can have my vote. I have faith in him and the case has good reasoning. VOTE: Spring Breeze
In post 2291, Zaiden wrote:Alright. I'm gonna shift my vote back to Spring Breeze because I'm not convinced by their response to Pink Ball and they didn't address what I asked them.
I went to ask teammates what they think about spring saying they would only claim after catching up and then realized they were probably just going to tell me to do this.
At worst, we flip her, she's a functional VT, and we have actual context for the pushes and wagons today.
At best, she's scum.
She can never be allowed to approach endgame at this point.
She will never be solved by scum actions.
If we don't eliminate her, this is still going to be a major distraction on later days, when, you know, we'll have better information to hunt elsewhere and we risk outing actually useful roles in the meantime.
In post 2988, Noraa wrote:nah the most obvious besides murder is me.
I could see them having left you alive to continue tunneling on me. SPF was likely shot as a protection dodge, though, that is true.
We presumably have at least 6 fruit vendors remaining. Unless we have FV saturation, there's a large likelihood that there is 0-1 more scum who can vend fruits. The fruits have individual flavors, and thus cannot be successfully counterclaimed, and there's a decent chance given SB's death flavor that the scum FVs don't actually send peaches. Hence, potentially broken by flavor.
MWB is locktown, imo, btw.
Heya
Do you think people should claim who they sent fruit to, but no flavor? Or visceversa?
Number of fruits received, probably. If we know roughly whether it's many FV/All FV/Mostly FV we can determine whether outing who isn't an FV is worth it.
> Pink Ball drops his massive case. He has stated that he would get SB eliminated and this was clear for the majority of the day from what I can remember. He voted Spring originally in 610, keeps her as a scumread throughout, pressures her in 1216, and bam 1448 is where he states his intent to get SB killed. At the time judging from the previous page, Cake was receiving heat, Cheet just dropped a point about Jingle being possibly dissonant, there are wagons on Zaiden/Gypyx/Jingle at this time. Needless to say, i think it is accurate to say Pink Ball is the catalyst for the SB wagon during a time where many, many others would have been accepted. It is also probably worth noting that SB was a strongman which presumably is one of the stronger PRs
i will also mention that i think pink treating the game like he has to solve it asap before dying is towny
> Murder continues the cake crusade (also maria further down) but is interested in how SB will fit into his idea of the scumteam. He does point out SB's read post where she "soulread thinks he's town". this post gives me an idea
Spoiler:
In post 1622, Spring Breeze wrote:it's true i don't think i've been super on ball with the game so i combed back through and i think these takes are a lot truer to my heart. list isn't ordered.
(TOWN) - cheetory is a townread, even taking away the emotional reason which i don't think i should focus on anymore. he's generally invested, and i especially like how he said he was going to go v/la but couldn't help but come back to comment on things about the game.
(TOWN) - noraa i think is town. she's actually playing very similar to a game i hard scumread her in and she was town. this is also one of the reads infinity feels really good about so i am locking in
(SOUL TOWN) - sircakez has in general been pretty unafraid to give his opinions, and tonally reads as blunt town. maybe it's a soulread, i just think he's town
(SOUL TOWN) - pooky is my randsoultown. we played a game just before and he was a lot like this, and i'd think scum!pooky would be trying to control the gamestate/do something meaningful. he does know this, but i still feel he's town, i suppose. he just doesn't seem to care.
(TOWN LEAN) - morning tweet, i think is town for the confidence with the noraa read. i've played with scum!morning briefly and don't think she likes to make waves.
(TOWN LEAN) - gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving
(TOWNISH BUT HESISTANT) - spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off
(TOWNISH BUT HESISTANT) - zaiden; i liked his attempts to scumhunt with the conversations with his team members. i looked back and think i am probably putting too much stock into that emotional read so i am flipping here again. tonally town because i find him funny, but bias aside, he's probably a light townlean/null.
(NULL) - maria, on reflection, i can see being similar to pooky so i'm not that suspicious of her being put to the side as town for a lot of players. personally, i have no idea and i don't think my opinion matters on this
(NULL) - jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination
(NULL) - pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.
(???) - murdersunny; i have seen murdercat in other games though and he generally has a lot to say. the fact he's popped in a few times and said he's had nothing to say/nothing is happening feels strange because i almost feel like he wouldn't be able to contain his opinions as town if he's town. the change in playstyle is leantown, but it also lets him get away with not offering opinions. i'm fully open to looking at his case though
(NULLSCUM) - s_s, i am nullscumleaning for popping in at apparently the right moments to make jokes, but doesn't offer anything.
(SCUM WITH REASONING) - jingle, i still don't like his original noraa push. the points are nitpicky and generally reachy to come to the conclusion that noraa is scum. i do like (agree) with his reasoning behind the PR point noraa brought up though. 1477 i feel is still weak suppliment for a "very confident scumread" on noraa. the first question cheetory asked about noraa was a "this is more likely read," and the second one was just an inconsistency. i don't think he answered my question about the BoP.
(No Mention, but notices she missed) - Gamma
(No Mention, but notices she missed) - PrivateII
(No Mention) - midwaybear
my team hasn't been around for this game, although infinity did say he was confident in noraa town, and he mindmelds with spf a while ago, and ydrasse said noraa was prob!town, which was also while ago
I think this pretty heavily implies Noraa being town, she even mentions Noraa twice with her teammates' reads. i already think Noraa is town anyway but thats nice
Cheetory I think is more likely town than not from this as well.
Cakes and Pooky reads are more constrained for being more gut/soul feely, im unsure where to place them in the hierarchy as a result. They come off as less genuine because of it, not necessarily scummy but more forced
Gypyx i already think is more likely town but i do notice that he had around 3 votes at the time so he was certainly on the table for some, i lean that Kanna doesnt put him upwards for nothing reasoning if they're scum mates
Kanna hedges the fuck outta SPF and Zaiden. Just focusing on Zaiden, i recall SB initially scumreading there but then you end up with this sort of messy read right after the bit where Zaiden got emotional and the heat got let off. Pink kinda already commented on this but it did read like Zaiden was the intended elimination but then he obvtowned so SB kinda didnt know what to do w herself. I dont really see why she doesnt either brush off that emotion reasoning (as some have done) or commit to it, this is maybe cause not everyone agreed Zaiden is town from it I suppose so she wanted to leave it open. I think that's the idea
Nulls are whatever, what is more interesting is her fake scumread on Pink Ball later in the day calling him bad faith. I guess you could say that she would do that for distancing but i thought it read genuine
i think the murder read is just kind of quirky cause i dont believe murder was ever considered as an elimination but she hedges on him being maybe scummy here without really saying a lot
i dont have an opinion on the S_S read, it's in its own category for her in slight scum, could see low risk distance or just S_S being town she felt like attacking
Jingle i think comes off good as he is virtually the only player she seems to feel strongly is scum for the 2nd half of the day. She expended the most effort trying to shade there and this was at a time long before she would know she would die
She forgets Gamma and Private which i would lean slightly you dont do to a partner ?? but she is aware that she missed them about 45 minutes later for whatever reason so unsure. Also she missed midway but doesnt even realize
I think my townreads overlap decently with this, I think Noraa/Cheet are strongest, Gypyx i lean and it leads me to believe Zaiden and Jingle are town as well. i dont think Kanna would have planned a distance as far back as Zaiden, and likely not Jingle as well, why would she even think she's going to die on this day? Pink Ball and Murder arent really interesting in this list but i think they are town too.
uh continuing on with what i was doing, Cakes is thinking about S_S and Gypyx at this time while arguing with murder abt the definition of scumhunting
>Cakes agrees emphatically with the case and joins, thinks PB is very likely town for it as well. Murder inquires as to what made Cakes nulltown at first then switch with the case. Cakes notes that the "point of inflection", so the part where Kanna turns her gameplay on as soon as she learns of Pink ball's suspicion is a very good point.
>Murder does the thing where he possibly overleans into pre-flips around here as a result of wanting to score as many points for finding the team as possible, i think this is more likely a thought he thinks to have as town rather than one he'd think to fake, like I think that's something you might not think about as scum
>Pooky around this time hasn't really done anything other than revel at others' desire to win the game, i guess. Now PB asks Pooky directly to respond to his case. he gives a lengthy soul type read explanation where is he certain she is not pocketing him and by extension town. I have questions to ask pooky surrounding the nature of this read but i am sure those will be asked if they havent already
>PrivateI thought there was scum in PB/SB, with the recent case he is inclined to swap to SB probably, mentions he would likely generally buy his case. Eh eh eh
>Pooky is 100% sure Kanna is town cause she wouldnt emotionally manipulate him. I asked about where he's being emotionally manipulated which was probably the wrong question, cause he followed up by saying he isnt, Kanna is being genuine
>I kid you not, Gypyx doesn't know who SB is. when the abbreviation is clarified, he says he has no read on them, maybe a slight scumlean. i am inclined to think Gypyx gives an opinion on her if they are scum mates
Pedit: So I'm tired, from Murder's post, the rest of the votes go Gamma -> Cheet -> midway -> Jingle -> MariaR
Somewhere around there, i think the elimination was inevitable so the votes and reads are less important. Maybe there is a point to make about how easy the wagon went thru, sure, scum did not attempt to fight it really. in my opinion if they had it would have been unnecessary troubles for them in the future since i think the Kanna wagon was being sent at that point. I would be wary about assuming scum joins because at least in my case voting isn't even AI, if i were scum i am just as likely to bother adding my vote as i am not. Competing wagons would make that kind of thing more interesting. i also say this because i think Cheet is town strongly and im thinking that way for mid and Jingle already
Noraa / Pinkball
Cheetory / Zaiden
midway / Jingle / Murdercatto
Gypyx
-
I think out of the rest, Gamma and PrivateI come off slightly better for Kanna forgetting they exist maybe, i generally need more before deciding on who is scum in the bottom half though, im never good at that. I feel pretty good about what i have so far, maybe i fucked up once but only in the bottom tiers
Maria would be my pick today, barring something interesting from Noraa.
I don't hate the Monty wagon either, but I want to see what SB said about Monty.
I also want to read spf iso.
In post 3068, MURDERSUNNY wrote:There is definitely some context left out, but this is going to make it much easier to go check them all.
But I am very confident scum bussed, no way that wagon goes through that easy (and without my vote even) otherwise.
I touched on this but i think roughly around the middle of the wagon the elimination was quite likely to happen and if it didnt then it was certainly a forever thing that several players would push i think. i dont see the incentive for scum to bus more than rand% of them already being on the wagon
but again nobody ever agrees with me on this so maybe i just undervalue the importance of votes. What makes scum more likely to essentially join a wagon that is going thru than not? It would do nothing for their looks and in my opinion it doesnt really mean anything at all, it's like executing an order
In post 3063, Zaiden wrote:I am confused at Nora's proposition of Pink Ball being scum as well as me. As far as I'm concerned, Pink Ball is my strongest townread who correctly read Spring Breeze as scum and SPF as town. I don't read Nora's defence of Spring Breeze leading up to the elimination as being alignment indicative because I could see Nora hard tunnelling people as obv town/obv scum because that just seems to be how they operate. But let's say if Nora is town here they were wrong about Spring Breeze and they're wrong about me being scum so I'm pretty sure they're just wrong about Pink Ball. That said, I suppose there's a reason why she's being insistent and I'll wait to hear. Although my team thinks it's extremely unlikely they did tell me a coordinated D1 scum bus happened in a previous Team Mafia game. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that Pink Ball is scum who bussed Spring Breeze.
Trackers typically don't track separate night actions just who visits or is visited right? In that scenario if scum believe there's a tracker in the game I think the proposition they would vend fruit to try to hide their kill on the same target makes sense. Especially if they have reason to believe there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches, it would be in their interest to prevent peaches from falling into the hands of town. But the counterpoint to that is scum could still kill their target and claim to have vended them fruit because their target wouldn't be alive to verify this anyway and it's not like tracker can ascertain the difference. And if there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches for scum too why wouldn't scum just vend peaches between themselves?
Finally, I reckon MariaR was attempting to create a wagon onto me halfway through D1 and it coincided with shifting people off an early Spring Breeze wagon. Then she goes from calling Spring Breeze obv town to hammering them. The connection here is pretty clear to me.
Vote: MariaR
i think that noraa's defense of SB due to the particular reasons she had that made her feel very sure was very towny. something that she thought was exclusive to town gave her great confidence in the read, aka the fruits. I dont think she would think to fake that
