TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Cephrir]

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

sry for being so cute before, the boys can't resist me u know how it is.

[Cephrir]

I’m turning a new leaf

Vibes are bad

im sorry about your red pm

[Cephrir]

im enjoying iv but he is quite different and could be scum having a good time

anyway sorry you may return to shitposting

[Cephrir]

VOTE: dann

i wish it didn't have to be like this

[Cephrir]

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

agar

im free

i dont have to care whether everyone townreads me or not anymore

i am awash in the energy of liberation

[Cephrir]

how do you think scum!you would enter the thread after seeing a second scum role pm?

i don't know

i don't care :3

[Cephrir]

ya im p sure

i pretty much never know what im going to post before i start typing it

[Cephrir]

there's more content in the above post than your entire iso in the first game

[Cephrir]

what i was getting at is that i'd assume you'd be less happy/more reluctant to start as scum? not really thinking about the actual content scum you would post here

oh id definitely be less happy but i might pretend to be happy

[Cephrir]

there's more content in the above post than your entire iso in the first game

By the way shame about that wall post you made right before the last game got cancelled

I was so myad

[Cephrir]

it wasn't in the scum pt

[Cephrir]

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

[Cephrir]

Please don't post your read list every page
Please. Nobody cares.

[Cephrir]

I’m interested that ceph is reacting adversely to mastina here when mastina had pretty decent scum PoE from early pages last game

i don’t know which indicative it is but it’s probably one of them?

finger gun to head its nai because i recall ceph being grumble to mastina last game and grumble to mastina in doubles mafia

ceph you think mastina just got lucky last game and you don’t think anything of her early game reads then? tell us more

i don't think much of basically anyone's reads, although there are exceptions i can count on one hand, unless they can explain them in a way that convinces me.

[Cephrir]

although there are exceptions i can count on one hand

(one of them is in this game though)

[Cephrir]

I think the second half of 287 by Mastina is pretty weird too.

I'm town now that I'm posting... why was I scum before? Notably Titus was in scumlean without having posted yet, which is a different position

i mean, she calls people's alignments based on blank votes.

this isn't uncommon from her, although i wish it were.

[Cephrir]

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game

you may have shown this card too early

[Cephrir]

i mean, because she shitted up last game by making boatloads of massive, irrelevant posts about stuff that had happened 80 pages ago, and i would like her to stop doing that.

[Cephrir]

i mean, because she shitted up last game by making boatloads of massive, irrelevant posts about stuff that had happened 80 pages ago, and i would like her to stop doing that.

got it, is this something that genuinely upset you last game? aren’t scum usually happy about someone being kind of anti-town and clogging the thread like that?

it did annoy me, yes. while they do benefit scum, i also don't want to read them.

[Cephrir]

her n you have some history?

There is one rule with Mastina's reads.

Take her read list, and start killing from towniest to scumiest in order.

You will win the game before you lose it, almost always. Without fail.

That's pretty unfair, maybe even scummy.

Mastina's read on me was wrong, she misinterpreted Scum vs. Scum for Town vs. Town with ABR vs. Xtoxm, but getting right 2 of the 4 scum, while probably beginner's luck , is pretty good given how few people suspected Cephrir and hercule.

Can confirm this is a real opinion LLD has.

[Cephrir]

Let's just all quotestripe unimportant posts from 8 pages ago so that the game will never actually start.

Pretty indifferent to the hercule thing.

[Cephrir]

@hop posts directed at me

If you can't understand why I dont want the game to be filled with massive walls that dont say anything, I can't help you. This is self evident to me. I'm not interested in getting dragged into dunking on mastina more; I dont have a high opinion of her mafia skill level and that's all there is to it, and I am surprised this is such a controversial idea

I am leaning town on a50 right now based on comparing him to tenet. But I dont have much faith in my ability to read him.

[Cephrir]

I wonder if the best way to play this game is to throw last game in the trash. Scum will be hyper aware they'll be compared to how they played there. It is a bit useful for getting baselines on people I dont know (e.g. I know I may be predisposed to scumread winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) and should take disliking his posts with a grain of salt) but being visibly different might not actually be a scumtell for that reason.

Dont have anyone I'm especially excited about voting rn so i wont.

[Cephrir]

Shit, I missed a good opportunity to performatively use the word vibe in that post

[Cephrir]

i want to vibe with those reads, but in the end, posting them in that format is just a little too performative :/

[Cephrir]

i will make an effort to be more joyful and fun since i am evidently being mr. grumpy gills again

[Cephrir]

hi friendo

i'm still kinda waiting for stuff to happen. im not super convinced by the cases against you or IV right now. my gut feeling is that scum may not be posting much right now, because what i am seeing is largely decent, but who knows.

the game is moderately fun so far, so that's nice

[Cephrir]

what do you like on a50?

He feels more at ease and is actually posting and playing mafia somewhat. I just came off a scumgame with him where he basically lurked

Could certainly be playing better this game though

[Cephrir]

what's your read on herc?

Meh

I liked his opening but it seems like everyone else hated it so I'm just sort of filing it away and nothing else from him has made me feel any kind of way

[Cephrir]

nah I’m actually not self conscious believe it or not lollll

Is this meant to be ironic or

[Cephrir]

huh? im not feeling self conscious wdym

that line just read super self conscious to me

maybe i was just looking for it i guess

[Cephrir]

what do you like on a50?

He feels more at ease and is actually posting and playing mafia somewhat. I just came off a scumgame with him where he basically lurked

Could certainly be playing better this game though

do you think A50 would hard lurk in team mafia after finishing a scum game where he lurked & having been active as town in part 1? this feels like it isn't super useful unless A50 hates scum to the extent he just won't play it
i feel like he's trying to be overly at east. the tone feels different/fit-in-ee

he might. i don't understand the guy.

you seem determined to interact with me, what's with that?

[Cephrir]

I know what you're referring to but one game of meta is one game of meta. I also don't think it's that similar yet anyway.

[Cephrir]

I guess I'd need to see a lot more to want to yet LLD today. She is such an asset if town that I might not be able to see my way to ditching her D1 at all ever, but if it can be done we sure ain't there yet.

[Cephrir]

although there are exceptions i can count on one hand

(one of them is in this game though)

hmmm is it LLD? :O

Ya

[Cephrir]

but guys is my mic muted hello

are you all in a pt and purposely ignoring me

what is mastina talking about

ceph you clearly know

LLD is almost definitely scum here.

my reads here

quote 1 implies its about lld but quote 2 implies its plural hello

hi, she's talking about alisae vs. pine for most of that post

sry

[Cephrir]

hi, she's talking about alisae vs. pine for most of that post

(i think -- LLD was scum in that game and i replaced in late)

[Cephrir]

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

i was planning to give you two

[Cephrir]

i mean, not two yeets, but two days

[Cephrir]

In a game with the highest-caliber of players being scum, you're going to catch scum when their viewpoints contain 'little flaws', so to speak, and LLD's case against hercule is exactly that: it is flawed, in a way that, yes, is scum-indicative. The thought process doesn't fully track especially given this is TEAM Mafia. LLD has teammates who could fill her in on what they know of last game, and then there's also the ban announcements for last game for extra context there, and that's beyond the fact that last iteration of the game is a talking point in this game, meaning that checking out last game has some actual value to it.

this seems pretty silly. last game is barely relevant, and she is hardly the type of person who would think she needed to be filled in about it to play this game

429 is another instance of a post which looks good and looks reasonable and which shows an evolution in thought process that looks like it comes from town but which I don't think actually does come from town. But I'm not sure I can explain it.

okay I'll shut up about your read on me from now on

but I swear you're going to quote every single one of my posts and say some variation of exactly this

annoying, right?

[Cephrir]

Almost50 can talk to Gamma Emerald to see where I am coming from here, if Gamma remembers.

We're not reading each other's games and we certainly aren't even talking in the team PT (or DC channel). I do harbour some suspicions of LLD (which I could buy independently), but you are now my biggest concern (I think you're the Scum team leader). I mist suspect Hopkirk & Oka Poka though.

My preliminary solve would be: Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, mastina, OkaPoka (not in any particular order)

Thank you for listening, Now I go back to doing my own thing.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually don't hate this. I won't get to scumreading mastina for a while yet, though. I think I have a method of reading her later, or at least it worked once.

Also, the more A50 posts the more I think he's town, and since that read is inconvenient for scum as they would very much like him to be one of their miselims, I plan to sit on it for a bit.

[Cephrir]

you scumread me ceph? ):

a lil. ur not entertaining me yet.

[Cephrir]

Winter Flakes is actually the only part of that solve I'm enthused about

what's wrong with winter flakes?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: the worst

[Cephrir]

hey why ducky over anyone minus mastina in the a50 solve

i haven't liked his posts. i guess like, when i say "i don't hate this solve" i half mean "i expected a50 to gun for people i expressly disagree with gunning for" -
winter is a person of interest, he is playing better than last game where i saw him as a necessary miselim on my path to victory and he was just showing up to post terse nothings and i don't entirely know what to make of that yet.
hopkirk and you are both less fun this game. i want to give you time because, well, i like you and am hoping you'll be town and we can play together.
basically i guess you could say that whole list was scumleans for me right now but i'd rather vote someone who actually has votes on them?
i know this post was meandering and probably self contradictory.

that said ducky being not here for a few days was something i probably should have let stop me from voting him right now since it's not going to do much good.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: the worst

Explain in 200 words or I'm putting my BoP laser into your brain.

Like, next 5 posts by you.

i'm quite flattered i get to be BoP'd, though i'm not sure what i've done to make you think my town play is competent

i think he's just been popping in to say nothing interesting, while last game, although i didn't find him charismatic, he was at least trying. also, it's a wagon with votes that isn't you or hercule since neither of those interest me.

[Cephrir]

i'm kind of intrigued by the idea that a scumrir vote is one i have never said a word about in my iso. i think i probably go more out of my way to appear to have trajectory as scum.

[Cephrir]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: the worst

Explain in 200 words or I'm putting my BoP laser into your brain.

Like, next 5 posts by you.

i'm quite flattered i get to be BoP'd, though i'm not sure what i've done to make you think my town play is competent

i think he's just been popping in to say nothing interesting, while last game, although i didn't find him charismatic, he was at least trying. also, it's a wagon with votes that isn't you or hercule since neither of those interest me.

When I say BoP laser I mean I need good answers from you or I'm death tunnelling you on my own BoP.

This is not a great answer. Worst is literally gone and again, this is the same shit i was hitting Dann for. You decided you disliked all the current interaction and your best move was to

EMPTY VOTE THE WORST?!?

There was so much to be done with your vote and you decided that was the move?

I find it hard to believe town you isn't more convinced on a read by now, whether it's right or wrong

and I fully believe that's the kind of intermediary vote scum you would make to be in a better position here

at the risk of self-meta, i don't think the bolded is true. :shrug:

[Cephrir]

i will concede that my vote sucks and i should find a better place for it.

[Cephrir]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

what do you hate about it? is this rly what scumhunting on this site is, ppl just quote things and say "oh this post sucks" with no substantiation.

i mean, yes, sometimes that's what scumhunting on this site is, although i think your being annoyed at me for doing that is also scummy. >_>

i don't think it's a fair assessment of what's gone on. the statement "it's clear you have no reason for fosing me" is just untrue, and the whole post seems more like a cookie cutter post you'd make to discredit someone who's attacking you than it does a post that has anything to do with the actual gamestate we have right now. i also have a big pet peeve for the crowd-appealing thing, it's

you know

literally

Spoiler:

performative

[Cephrir]

tbh I was kind of expecting Ceph to post a short case on someone by now like they did on Agar cuz I was assuming they were tryna copy their towngame when they did that, but if they flipped scum again they prob wouldn't do it again cuz of the optics

agar gave me a great opening that game with a legitimately terrible post.

[Cephrir]

ABHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHA

Ceph.

CEPH.

He's scum complaining about being caught for the wrong reasons.

It's open now. He's upset not because he's town being pressured, but because he's scum and he doesn't think he should be suspected for what he's done so far.

You can see it right? It's fucking obvious.

yeah, i can see it.

i'm also hyper aware that voting him here is what i'd desperately want to do to get your attention off me if i were scum here, and that this post is probably the exact post i would make to try to get away with it.

VOTE: hercule

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

did i say i was going to die on this hill?

[Cephrir]

just a thought but if you need a second opinion on someone couldn't you get that from your team

[Cephrir]

just a thought but if you need a second opinion on someone couldn't you get that from your team

this may be slightly rich coming from someone whose team has not read a single post of my game and likely never will

[Cephrir]

i do not have a photographic (or even good) memory, but i'm reading every post in this game that isn't made by mastina (i tried, but she lost me around 10 pages ago)

[Cephrir]

One would need an incredible ego to believe there are "wrong" reasons to be caught as scum and elimed in day 1

i'd like to introduce you to mafia players, it seems you haven't met

[Cephrir]

folks

Dont you start performing too

[Cephrir]

folks

Dont you start performing too

when have i ever not been performing

you've known me for so long when have i ever not been performing to convince an audience to beleive the same stuff i do

and either alignment

lol

Fair, but somehow it doesn't annoy me when you do it

[Cephrir]

it should be, though

you will legitimately see my lld read flip if she doesn't catch scum in a couple tries

[Cephrir]

i don't know if i would! id probably stop letting them lead town tho.

[Cephrir]

go LLD? i mean this game is markedly different because LLD is here and is a warper

Switch to LLD! Make the wagons go 5/5. Titus' head will explode!

ngl, this is the most compelling case you've made so far

[Cephrir]

it's not

[Cephrir]

You sound very nervous and afraid.

no he doesn't?

ugh why is it so much harder to get reads this game than last game? is anyone else feeling the same way?

yes, but it's easier for me to fake reads than have real ones i think

[Cephrir]

Winter scumread withdrawn

[Cephrir]

Team mafia really brings all the meta boys to the meta yard huh

[Cephrir]

i mean, not two yeets, but two days

I would not mind a second day to figure shit out and then a flip choice.

I'm confident I can find them today. More confident if I have a second day to use.

But I'm willing to do it today if needed.

I may still be a fool, but I'm willing to move LLD to the TRs now. I don't think she doubles down in her own fate like this as Scum. She's a fierce fighter for survival.

Pay more attention to whether she actually follows through on it

[Cephrir]

a) Meta is trash
b) VCA is garbage
c) there's no such thing as slips (Scum or Town)
d) Cases are scummy

i think this post is supposed to be sarcastic, and yet no part of it is incorrect

[Cephrir]

call me a sucker but i'm in love with dunn's posts on page 43
x also probably town

i am developing too many townreads

[Cephrir]

let it be known i don't have any confident reads at this time but i felt like making this list to help myself sort where i'm at and also decided to post it for townie brownies

townleans in no particular order

mastina- ugh. this may change in later days as i feel i can read her better then
x- even amidst auro's posts, he has thoughts and appears to give a shit sometimes
dannflor- i thought his antivibe at the start of the game was +town on further thought. he's had a lot of analysis that felt real and i mostly agreed with. but he could be a deepwolf :3
jjh- just seems generally unworried about stuff
dunnstral- his posts from unvoting hercule to voting him again make my heart go pitter pat
a50- vibing

weaker townleans

IV- he's weirdposting for sure but it doesn't seem self conscious to me, quite the opposite. i am interested in how he responds to titus' post above though.
winter flakes- he seems to be in a better mood than last game, and i guess that could be a bad thing? but im finding his posts followable
LLD- i'm not going to try to explain this it's just how i feel right now and is very much subject to reevaluation

never mind, this actually isn't too many townreads, it just felt like it

meh pile

titus- hasn't done much yet but i'm not excited by her jumping in with colored vote counts and also not doing much with them
agar- can't remember much from him
oka- not a brilliant ball of light, sorry you set high standards
dgb- the only reason this isn't in my scum pile is because attacking LLD seems high risk low reward. but seems more agenda driven than last time.
ythan- i am willing to policy elim this dude as he seems to have no intention of being useful at any point

scum candidates

hopkirk- i want to vote him and i don't know why, i should reread this
the worst- i felt like his few posts didn't do much/were picking at stuff just to pick at stuff, but i am posting this without going back to look at them so this could make 0 sense
hercule- reaction to pressure is scummy imo, although yes i can see the flip side here.

[Cephrir]

IV- he's weirdposting for sure but it doesn't seem self conscious to me, quite the opposite. i am interested in how he responds to titus' post above though.

what is so interesting about titus's post? i don't even know what she wants me to explain, maybe you can explain it to me like im 5?

uh hm

i assumed she was talking about an actual trajectory you had but actually i can't find it in your iso so never mind i guess?

[Cephrir]

mold of titus' post is that you at one point sheeped LLD on hercule and now you are voting LLD hence the flop

titus i dont think has read the game so /shrug

the bit about "sheeping on voting mastina's townreads" doesn't appear to have happened though?

[Cephrir]

i figured out the demon oka was summoning

[Cephrir]

oh my god it goes all the way back

[Cephrir]

i was going to make your next post for you but then u posted before me and i don't have a non awkward way to get the next one

[Cephrir]

im townreading u now

[Cephrir]

we're summoning demons together now, but i'll probably get bored

[Cephrir]

so i had Flopz right here on voice chat. he'd taken a quick literal three minutes to read the entire thread and he got even further than i had. he was going to post his reads... going to... then he read this post. do you know how much of a RadiantCowbells fan Flopz is? he constantly brings up in irl conversations in real life that RC is basically his idol. he says that he would have printed out pictures of RC's avatar to put as posters on his wall if he didn't think zaiden would mock him for that. anyway, when he heard this 'vile, despicable, and not good' representation of his hero he went ballistic. he's refusing to give ANY of his reads until LLD apologizes to RC and makes good restitution on the defamation of his holy image. well flopz has shared one read, but it's more about someone's character/personality/terribleness than it is about their alignment and it was a really toxic post (even be Flopz's standards...' so i'm not going to post it for the sake of not being a terrible person

you should probably keep this out of the game unless your goal is toxicity

[Cephrir]

i find 'hopkirk isn't being funny' worse than i do 'hopkirk is scummy' by a long shot.

that's pretty stupid, since you apparently think i'm just not getting the joke, but i guess you're so couched in irony that anything i try to interact with you on could turn out to have been an ironic joke all along

[Cephrir]

-town if A50 is town. feels weirdly pockety

LOL @ at idea Ceph would choose to pocket ne of all.

yeah, i definitely wouldn't. dude has no influence (this is the important part) and is usually a free miselim, but i plan to prevent that this game

[Cephrir]

just vote me already you're clearly building up to it

VOTE: hopkirk

now it'll be omgus

[Cephrir]

wow my demon summoning lasted all of one post i dream of one day being as dedicated to shitposting as oka

[Cephrir]

how did i end up on team almost50 what has happened to my life

[Cephrir]

ok u got me red handed gj

take me down to the station daddy

[Cephrir]

??

[Cephrir]

you said "you're saying you treated that as serious"

i don't know what you're accusing me of treating as serious. the thing a50 is responding to?

why wouldn't that be serious? what's the point of posting it if it didn't really happen when it so obviously has a high likelihood of setting off LLD and making the thread awful?

[Cephrir]

if it helps to pretend im a humorless dipshit, you can

i'm not, but maybe your "humor" is just too "subtle" for me

[Cephrir]

ok, i don't think you need an excuse to not give flopz' reads because you could easily just not post about him at all

i do partly agree with his second paragraph that posting that accomplishes nothing, and i also didn't enjoy the inflammatory element. i don't think i ever said "i 100% agree with a50's reasoning here" only that it was weird to be on the same side as him but ok

[Cephrir]

you are seeing words in post 1161 that aren't there.

[Cephrir]

i agree with his vote at this time.

[Cephrir]

ok, i don't think you need an excuse to not give flopz' reads because you could easily just not post about him at all

i do partly agree with his second paragraph that posting that accomplishes nothing, and i also didn't enjoy the inflammatory element. i don't think i ever said "i 100% agree with a50's reasoning here" only that it was weird to be on the same side as him but ok

and since you made a post after that one that said you didn't think i was having as much fun this game i'm

sure

you're sincere in scumreading me for having some shitposting mixed in just like in EVERY FUCKING GAME I PLAY. you're scumreading it both happening and not happening at the same time which makes this blatantly bad faith

there's shitposting and then there's shitposting that has the potential to become toxic and i think the difference should be obvious

[Cephrir]

acting like you're saying something that isn't a scumclaim

not buying this level of certainty

[Cephrir]

RC isn't exactly a divisive social issue

disagree.

[Cephrir]

hey pumbaa may not be the brightest bulb but he's hilarious

[Cephrir]

please don't claim for no reason

[Cephrir]

just don't read her posts

they say nothing of value anyway

[Cephrir]

when you come back i'd love your opinion on or help murdering hopkirk

[Cephrir]

I don't like the amount of sheeping LLD on the whole mastina is bad town argument.

not sure who you think is doing this, but i'm not

[Cephrir]

And we'll probably make another 150 pages today

[Cephrir]

Just say you liked the post it doesnt take 500 fucking words

Shit, I forgot to not read this drivel

[Cephrir]

thank goodness i now know in excruciating detail exactly how certain you are about those scumreads, that is adding a lot of value to my life

[Cephrir]

i wonder if i can get myself into the scumpool by continuing to make these posts

let's call it an experiment

[Cephrir]

we're trolling now boys

it's the right way to celebrate the fact that this thread will be as long as war and peace before we manage to yeet anyone

[Cephrir]

judging by this catchup style... ill have to wait

hi ceph whats up

no, i daresay it'll be quite some time, and you'll most likely have forgotten the question by the time your answer arrives

hello! i'm making another attempt to summon hastur. also, i am watching tv with the boy and we just did a meditation exercise. soon i will go to bed :0

[Cephrir]

strangers passing on ships in the night would be a good way to describe mastina and myself. oil and water. in my experience she is the foremost expert on site in taking the maximum possible number of words to convey a simple idea, and it frustrates me because i perceive the expectation that i will read them as a disrespect for my time.

what do you mean by political plays?

[Cephrir]

to you it seems like she's compromising on her reads? all i see is "LLD must die." I guess I don't get the impression she cares how it happens.

[Cephrir]

love the paranoia ur giving off tbh.

I guess the question is whether she's trying to like, let you buy a townread with an LLD vote. It's hard to tell if that's really happening (unless I missed something) because her posts are so detached from the now that there's no real time interaction. I guess I would be surprised if she was, as town, doing something like you describe in order to get LLD dead, but I'm not sure I see that as having happened so far. i am, admittedly, skimming her posts.

[Cephrir]

you would be fun to keep dancing with but i have to go to bed

might phonepost might not

[Cephrir]

in mastina's post she basically says she's marking me as a scumread now because im not presencing which i mean is fair i haven't been posting like last game

its just contextually and timing wise ~ i am suspicious. this is probably the best time to strike LLD and I feel like mastina is trying to get me into posting more and doing my thing and maybe displacing what LLD wants to do, and end up voting LLD

it feels very political and something I would do, im trying to parse if it actually is political and whether that actually means anything AI for her agh mastina please just respond to me ceph doesn't even read your posts

Know about that first part yeah. It is true that your presence has been muted but I'm seeing town in it now for one. And you're coming back.

I guess I dont think there's necessarily a causal connection between you posting more -> you voting LLD? I could see it as a method of distracting from the hercule wagon more easily since the probability of you doing that if your scumreads are random is higher.

I personally dont play that kind of 5d chess. I could imagine it from her though, I think she at least thinks of herself as a calculating planner type of scum player? So sorry if this stack of waffles doesnt help haha

[Cephrir]

The hercule wagon is dissipating anyway because LLD is visibly wavering. I wouldn't spend too much energy being worked up about that.

[Cephrir]

rules are rules, and one of the rules is people who're new to be scumreading me for reasons that don't actually apply to me. that's ok tho.

[Cephrir]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

[Cephrir]

so thanks!

[Cephrir]

pretty world this is

admittedly most of the time when hercule post my visceral reaction is townleans and i end up walking back on it a few hours later but this is no different, it does look pretty townie

and he unvoted LLD ugh is it mastina, i really can't do mastina

do u think that can't come from scum? i don't.

i feel like this game we're just townreading anyone who makes long posts because they're long.

[Cephrir]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

i think maybe the constant vote changing was a scum maneuver from me. i also possibly cared more about what people thought of me.

also i think i was confident a few times because i knew none of the people who would catch me out on it are in team mafia.

[Cephrir]

a thing about mastina is that she is capable of producing this massive volume as scum

and also if you actually read her posts critically you'll realize they don't say anything (im legit amazed that people keep saying she has good reasons for things, lmao, you're just assuming there must have been a reason in there since there's so much text)

but she can't necessarily maintain the false conviction for days, so revisiting her later is the path

[Cephrir]

real talk im tired of talking about mastina and lld can we focus on something else and not just let the "warper" thing happen

i feel like we'll be in a worse position later if we let the whole game be about them and then they're elimed/nightkilled and we won't know up from down

[Cephrir]

connection's happening between plenty of people on the lld-scum train and they seem to have synced without really expressing compelling reasons

i'd like to see someone other than mastina explain this wagon to me

[Cephrir]

what, i just contradicted myself?

yes, sorry, i want 2 opposite things at once

[Cephrir]

ok im done stealing ur schtick chicken man i feel unoriginal and lame

[Cephrir]

@Titus: Your defense of LLD won't work, simply because you are -supposedly- her Scum partner.

i mean okay but that one is actually based on literal nothing.

i have observed the mysterious votes on this page and i have no comment except that they are mysterious.

[Cephrir]

if we're going to start putting stock in
"i'm vla"
"scum"

because mastina said so then eject me out of the airlock and directly into the sun immediately please.

[Cephrir]

mastina, queen of all she surveys, first of her name, lady of the heavens and the number facts, princess of the holy roman empire, she who decrees the role pm colors, goddess of scumhunting has ordained your death titus what say you in your defense just kidding there's no trial for anyone with the sheer malice to dare be vla

[Cephrir]

i guess i'm just lolcatting now because more than half the town is taking mastina seriously and i can't deal with it

[Cephrir]

if we're going to start putting stock in
"i'm vla"
"scum"

because mastina said so then eject me out of the airlock and directly into the sun immediately please.

on what im confused where is this coming from

also want to go fishing

mastina's trajectory on titus is:

--titus is scum for posting she's vla
--this one interaction could be s/s with LLD (who, notably, has not flipped yet)
--"80% confidence"

really, that's it, i just checked to make sure i wasn't crazy

[Cephrir]

and somehow im in a group of 16 other people who mostly seem to think that's reasonable.

[Cephrir]

i'm going to look so bad if these slots ever flip scum and i'm not even townreading them lmao.

[Cephrir]

sorry, as you can see i quickly become insane when we talk about mastina but a large percentage of the game is set on caring what she thinks and using her as a secure base from which to explore so while i would love to talk about something else it has thus far been impossible

[Cephrir]

overthrow the warpers and install dannflor as supreme overlord

viva la revolucion

[Cephrir]

if a50 didn't have a bunch of posts about nothing i wouldn't suspect im of being any particular alignment but rather of having been abducted and replaced by an alien

[Cephrir]

LLD I have some ideas about this game I'd be interested in you hearing out if you still have the energy

I'm gonna try to get the post up tonight but it might be tomorrow

anyway just check back in for it if you feel up to it

please be my rock dannflor

you might be the only one capable of leading this town out of madness, so i hope you're not scum

[Cephrir]

I'll be doing an AMA now fire away

dude what are you doing.

[Cephrir]

how can you be considering voting both mastina and LLD those seem like fundamentally irreconcilable takes

[Cephrir]

also LLD is on like E-2 for pretty much no reason? and that makes me uncomfortable.

[Cephrir]

don't be a sheep; be a weird chicken

[Cephrir]

then why potentially end the day instead of trying to sort them? i know it's hard to do with all the noise

[Cephrir]

VOTE: okapoka

swim with the fishes i probably will

VOTE: mastina

/shrug maybe i can see if anyone agrees with me. or mastina can admit she's being political heh

sorry danny

world's be turning actually

VOTE: a50

also LLD is on like E-2 for pretty much no reason? and that makes me uncomfortable.

Don't you sound like ABR trying to block his buddy's wagon! I won't have it.

if we're all scum, we're doing some great theater right now so please don't interrupt

[Cephrir]

i'm fully aware that i look like an LLD partner right now but i am not going to let that stop me from pointing out that the game state is completely irrational.

[Cephrir]

i mean, it can't have been that hard when there are 8 votes and 7 of you refuse to even try to explain your votes.

[Cephrir]

i'm fully aware that i look like an LLD partner right now but i am not going to let that stop me from pointing out that the game state is completely irrational.

It's

very

rational.

did i miss a daycop soft or something bc otherwise this post is, like, from space

[Cephrir]

I mean, it can't really be rational when no reason is provided. Reason is like the root word of rational. I think.

[Cephrir]

i mean, it can't have been that hard when there are 8 votes and 7 of you refuse to even try to explain your votes.

Ceph, this is a large game, it's page 60, (total 200 pages if you add up the other game), let's not reach for smelling salts when a player gets wagon'ed.

It's a little different fmpov because the wagon is on an important player who is a huge asset as town (and thus who scum would love an excuse to get out of the way, which if she's town, is being merrily provided by you). And I don't see anyone assembling a serious counterwagon either.

You could definitely be right, sure. I'm starting to feel that's a stronger possibility, but it's still not based on anything LLD has posted.

[Cephrir]

Votes are going to go somewhere. I guess I'd recommend presenting a more attractive alternative.

i could try putting some lipstick and a wig on hopkirk?

[Cephrir]

whatever. it's fine, i shouldn't care this much. im gonna go do something else.

[Cephrir]

The scumteam is comically transparent.

This response sucks lol

[Cephrir]

I'm not digging the whole "I know exactly everything that's happening" attitude. It's a less believable confidence than DGB showed last game. I guess this doesnt mean much coming from someone who's transparently scum though.

[Cephrir]

You do realize there are more people not agreeing with you than scum in this game right

[Cephrir]

Cephrir you have devolved back into short posts complaining about mastina and the game state, and that feels kind of bad for your alignment

I know. Sorry.

[Cephrir]

Hey, nice case. It's not scummy.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Cephrir]

Quick, IV! Make another post where you pretend to be scum! That will throw them off for sure!

I enjoy ur thoughtful walls Danny pls feel free to do them as much as u like

[Cephrir]

Because you would never post snark that doesnt contribute to the game

[Cephrir]

Someone not named xtoxm please lay out a case on Dunnstral for me?

just don't read part 2, he nicely separated it out for people who do or don't care about meta

i don't see what's wrong with auro having helped

[Cephrir]

dann/ceph were both pushing hercule
then ceph jumped on A50s shitpush of me and Dann joined in with a naked vote that he later explained buried in an iso as basically 'i don't have as many townvibes as i want' which doesn't gel with the timing of the vote being with the A50/me conflict that he didn't comment on specifically
now they're both pushing Dunn with cases that came as basically the same time

both of their votes/pushes on me were the worst ones. oka/agar are in a similar state of their agreement with those pushes being bad

this feels like trying to save a partner

VOTE: LLD

no one else had a problem with the push on you, so this is me suggesting the way you're approaching the game is too self centered (and i think that's scummy)

[Cephrir]

if it helps i don't really care about that issue anymore

[Cephrir]

they should absolutely do a dancegame in the next TM

it might be toxic and town would win for sure but it'd be fun

[Cephrir]

just do that instead of X flag no one likes those

[Cephrir]

I mean, mastina is the one pushing LLD the most (followed by DGB) and she has Titus as her second strongest SR (at least that was the case when I posted that). Now what am I missing?

I wasn't saying "no one believes Titus is LLD's scumpartner," but rather "there is no compelling case for Titus being LLD's scumpartner"

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'm going to need an explanation for these.

Dann and hopkirk suddenly casing me as scum is very conveniently timed.

Dann asserting that I am on the sidelines for lld/hercule is incorrect.

Again, saying I'm fencesitty is wrong

:shrug:

some parts of that case felt good
some of them i'll grant might not be
i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

[Cephrir]

i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

Are you going to take their word for it or look for yourself?

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

i'm not very good at meta and auro is a more analytical type of player which might be a good approach to this game in particular given that my approach is not really working so far, so i was planning to take their word for it yes

[Cephrir]

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

[Cephrir]

I'm not asking you to use meta

I'm asking you to look at my posts and answer this:

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

Meta would be if I'm asking you to compare it to my scum/town game. I'm not doing that. You can do this exercise by reading only t his game.

i'll do this later

[Cephrir]

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

I wasn't talking about waffling, I was talking about whether I was being insightful/explaining my reads; stop deflecting.

If you don't want to do this, just say you're too lazy to, that's a valid answer. What do you dislike about my posts 1055 and 1572?

???

i was giving an example of part of the case that i didn't really care about, and you spent some time defending yourself from the accusation that you were waffling, so i'm noting that that means nothing to me since i don't think waffling is necessarily a scum trait

i am agreeing with what xtoxm said about your posts 1055 and 1572

[Cephrir]

i mean i guess you're not disputing xtoxm is town so your point is that he can't read i guess?

sure i should probably check but that seems extreme

[Cephrir]

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

[Cephrir]

shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.

You agree with this?

I explained how lld is different. There are no

reasons

for her to be scum that was given. Me acknowledging that she can scum is me saying 'yeah, she's a pretty good player and I can't fully trust her right now with no flips'. For Hercule, there is a case laid out and points made about how he could be playing to a scum agenda. It's not the same thing.

it was odd to place a vote on that pretty dangerous wagon if you felt lukewarm about it

[Cephrir]

Ceph, wagoning LLD has been like pulling teeth, her buddies are NOT bus'ing. We townies will have to do it without scum's help.

This probably the best argument for Scum!LLD I have seen so far. It's not a

perfect

argument (because sometimes Scum try to avoid the prevailing wagon to saw confusion when the eliminated flips Town. Some of us will want to eliminate ON the wagon and some off it, but the popular argument would always be "Scum

must

gave been on it", so 0-1 Scum on a Town flip on D1 increases the Scum win probability by like 50%). However, I can guarantee Scum are reluctant to bus LLD is she is on the red side.

my dude.

it got to like 8 votes without there even being a case.

that's not pulling teeth.

[Cephrir]

dgb said like one sentence about it once! i was

very

convinced.

[Cephrir]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

1 is definitely not a scumtell. 2 also sounds like a pretty ordinary thing to do. you are currently townreading mastina for doing 4, and 4.5 is something you also have done. 5 and 6 sound like what dgb is doing too. multiple people have already said they think 7 is town indicative.

most of this i don't really see as connected to a scum agenda either and you haven't really done so here -- you've only summarized events

[Cephrir]

ok my points about 5 and 6 are bad but i still don't see "and here's what makes it scum" in this post

[Cephrir]

yes, i am discrediting mastina a lot this game. just because the reasons are not apparent to you does not mean they don't exist. it should be apparent this is a longstanding real opinion.

once again we arrive at the idea that long paragraphs constitute evidence. this is only true if they actually say anything logical or useful.

is everyone obligated to fight wagons on them the way you feel they should, by reaching out to people?

[Cephrir]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

[Cephrir]

usually when someone is pushing on you and you're town the natural reaction is "ok I should figure out if they're mafia or if they're misguided"

disagree. :shrug:
people are complex.

[Cephrir]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

and we don't have to, i just need you to understand that this isn't something coming from a scum agenda and i would be doing it regardless of the color of my role pm

[Cephrir]

i guess if i were scum and she happened to be wrong maybe i'd shut up about it

[Cephrir]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

[Cephrir]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

there are points in there that i read and enjoyed
i dont want to continue dunking on mastina every post i make but she says "LLD is scum, she feels like scum, could this come from a town LLD? yes. but it just doesn't this game. xtoxm knows what i'm talking about. dannflor knows what i'm talking about. dgb knows what i'm talking about." 200 different ways and that is not analysis

[Cephrir]

yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me

i think this is just who she is, but i can see why someone new to her would feel this way

[Cephrir]

You don't seem like you feel very strongly about me being scum Cephrir

You're adopting a wait-and-see approach except I'm here and we're not waiting for me

What are you hoping to gain from your vote of me? Are you waiting for somebody else? We're kind of saying the same things right now so this feels like a weird stance, those two posts you keep pointing to don't look so convincing to me

i don't

im probably going to look at your iso at some point, im posting in class rn though

you are generally on My Side Of The Game (the side that likes reason) but that doesn't make you town

[Cephrir]

DGB being scum just feels so disappointing. Like it could be, but its play if so is deeply lame

[Cephrir]

I'm tempted to say "well dunn is being analytical now" but that's a cop out I should read

[Cephrir]

Eh. I looked. There is a bit of an excess of posts that at least *boil down to* "I like x/I dislike x" with more words.

But there are also some posts that doesnt apply to. 1233, 1264 are a couple examples.

He's also doing analysis now, but you dont get full credit for turning on a dime when it's pointed out.

[Cephrir]

I'm tempted to say "well dunn is being analytical now" but that's a cop out I should read

I don't believe this was the reason for your vote?

Wasn't that what their meta argument basically was

[Cephrir]

VOTE: DGB

I guess my vote flopping wasn't a scumtell after all, I just can't resist doing what oka/dunn/dann are doing

[Cephrir]

Maybe if I follow them around they'll invite me to sit with them at lunch

[Cephrir]

Well, yes, but I thought you were voting because of this:

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

That wasn't the only reason:
1676

[Cephrir]

I feel like that post does have reasons, so do you mean something in forgetting about by "the big tell"

[Cephrir]

In > I'm

[Cephrir]

That's reasonable.

Anyway I'm fine coming off it for the moment. I'd really like to be all town with this lovely group of voteaholics or whatever.

[Cephrir]

We could even consider... vibing

[Cephrir]

Scum will fear the unpredictable power of the vibe

[Cephrir]

I feel like that post does have reasons, so do you mean something in forgetting about by "the big tell"

instances of dunn doing it this game:

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

And I don't like DGB on 37

And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld

The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group

DGB feels vaguely good but don't trust me to read there.

Hercule looks genuinely towny now that we've moved past the early stuff

Titus, A50, ABR, I have no idea.

Never played with Ythan, keeping an eye out here now that IV has cased them

the worst is unimpressive

OkaPoka I'm trusting other people that he's town. I don't have any problems with them.

Mm, okay. I imputed the, like, contrapositive or something.

[Cephrir]

I've seen LLD talking about her belief that mastina sucks outside of mafia games, and with that context the discrediting stuff is a total zero for me.

[Cephrir]

im offended

[Cephrir]

im like totally fine with just eliming ythan or worst today and giving it another go tomorrow

[Cephrir]

like you wanna increase town win %? how about not having a 200 page day 1.

[Cephrir]

mafia fact: any wagon that doesn't go through must be because of scum not bussing

[Cephrir]

i think anyone reading the thread could foresee that an xtoxm wagon was never going anywhere today

[Cephrir]

i miss unwnd