Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Bridgeburners]

In a vacuum him voting is +town tbh

-QB

[PenguinPower]

[Shirou]

and he.is.voting.

I'm laughing

I know it's uncommon but is this a once in a lifetime event for usual SS?

[Bridgeburners]

It’s p uncommon for him on D1 as either alignment

-QB

[Bridgeburners]

<3

-QB

[Schiavetto]

right that's all well and good but it's been pages of (tiresome) back and forth over A Variety of Topics of Various Levels of Interest and i'd've preferred to hear from SS why he lands on you here rather than imp/aaron

The post that PP quoted is still current. I'm not aware of the reasons implosion and Aaron are being wagoned.

Thanks, appreciated - though it does strike me as odd that by now you wouldn't have at least some idea of how those two popped up. Like, where I'm at rn is that you rep'd into a very !!! slot, have been p vocally worried about getting immediately yeeted but then you also have no pulse on the two competing wagons? i'm having a hard time making that make sense for survival-minded would-be outed town pr

still not really sure i buy the PP vote here - &honestly the follow up here makes it harder to accept the "useless" read, if only because like... what context are you working with to arrive @ that conclusion

[Schiavetto]

i wonder how Inf reads 1778

[Something_Smart]

Well... people haven't exactly made it easy to track their reasons for voting. And I don't really feel like going to the effort.

[Infinity 324]

i wonder how Inf reads 1778

It's kinda meh? My vote on implo was 90% intuition and I kinda figured other people's votes were the same. I wouldn't really expect someone who didn't share the same feeling to "see it" per se. In most towngames of mine, I have reads like that, and generally people just ignore me (and I can't blame them). You articulated some of what I was feeling pretty well, but I still wouldn't expect it to convince someone who wasn't pinged by implo to begin with. I'm playing this game chill, I'm not really going to attempt to articulate my gut scumreads. If people agree with me, great. If not, fine.

[Schiavetto]

Idt it was an outstanding case either, was mostly about them characterizing your vote as a sheep boat

[Schiavetto]

*vote

that's solid though. I think i mostly just want this phase to be over.

[Bridgeburners]

i would like to say that if it weren't so close to eod i would probably be voting peta rn

~ skitteR

[petapan]

if you want to talk about something go ahead, but i'm not sure i have any burning questions to ask you right now

ig i'm a little concerned by ur slot rn - i think in the three prior games i played with u i was able to get a p decent bead on town!you fairly fast but here i'm just not getting those vibes; you feel very underwhelming and like mechanical almost rn, and i don't really like your takes

i also want you to explain the WIM post a bit more, if you can

~ skitteR

i think there's some difference in me replacing in vs me being in a game from the start and working to advance things and generate content, here i've been content to play laid back and not really give my take on everything because i didn't feel it was necessary (for instance, infinity has no idea i'm going to vig him tonight)

but it's not like i haven't heard the underwhelming thing before, sometimes i take a while to get going i suppose

i feel like as scum i still have a significant amount of pride on the line, and also it's just easier to play. as scum i'd probably be playing a lot harder than i am right now, gameface on, serious from the getgo, put out reads on everyone, look to establish a strong presence. i find it significantly easier to manufacture opinions than come up with real ones, uncertainty is always going to hold me back on real reads. this is why i hate doing lists. as it is i don't particularly feel the burden to act town so i'm content to shoot the shit and joke around. after a string of crap games i am not

especially

motivated as town, but also, i don't think playing harder equates to playing better and i don't think my reads are particularly likely to be better than other people's so i'm more content to be a bit player

what takes have i had that you don't like?

[petapan]

also why's secret hydra town to you

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

This feels like the worst vote on me so far. Feels very "I want to wagon but I don't want blame if things go wrong". I think SecHyd-town should have plenty of reason to vote me anyway (I'm in their PoE, they've not said anything positive about me recently the only possible exception being that skit's case didn't convince them, etc) so I feel like town-SecHyd shouldn't need to say "i'm voting this bc I don't like the other wagon". They should just like this one.

Might be griping.

well, i didn't like your wagon i straight up wouldn't vote you y'know?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

I wouldn't say I'm hunting for SK behaviour in the first place? the point is more -> looking for scum behaviour -> isis making very weird moves -> is isis scum? -> discuss with skitt in pt -> okay, isis prob not scum bc what would she be trying to achieve -> isis continues to just have bizarre takes that don't relate to the game as far as I see it -> this doesn't seem like town behaviour? but also she's not scum? what's going on? -> remember there's a possible 3rd party role that fits this not!scum not!town behaviour pattern

-QB

town / scum does nonsensical behaviour all the time though imo, and i don't see how that even fits the sk playstyle checklist

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

also fuck this game didn't go well. I tried not to be the N1 kill but that failed pretty horribly in retrospect. should have just tried to play my regular towngame.

^ this bit is something I noted before but never mentioned... given people's impressions of how ben played this game, does this sound plausible as an explanation for why he was scummy? It doesn't seem like anyone really discussed it, which is surprising.

in my (granted, limited) experience w ben, he does tend to obvtown/eat nightkills early. i think the explanation is perfectly possible, if he was trying to play lowkey to not get sniped. my problem is that his play... didn't improve after claiming, rather it became even worse.

he didn't even play after claiming, so i'm curious to see what you are calling "worse" there

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

also is s_s town or scum like wtf was all tha
- hYdra

[Isis]

I'm pretty happy to compromise on Aaron, I need a VC

I read a bunch of pages and didn't feel like commenting, I don't know if it's me being tired or them really being pretty empty

[Shirou]

I do wonder how to interpret this EoD considering a scum!Aaron flip. Probably only worth getting into it D2.

[Shirou]

@mod V/LA through 14/02 ~ 18/02

I want to take a quick break from the site so I may come late for D2 depending on how fast you guys hammer Aaron.

See you.

[Bridgeburners]

Peta ig my response to your response is hmmmmm. Like i dont have much to say on you going on abt the difference between town and scum you

There's a few different things i dont like abt your takes:
1. Your reads seem to be skewed towards scumreading people more than townreading people, which is odd because i feel like most people in this game dont have nearly as many scumreads as you do
2. Related: but i almost feel like you're trying to nudge peple towards either the ss or aff wagons, but like, without prejudice and not overtly? You write something like you'd vote ss 10/10 times, but also pull a bunch of aff posts, say you dont like them, and dont mind voting there. (You also pulled a bunchnof schiavetto's posts and similarly made a 1-liner abt how this is bad). This latter method doesnt really feel like solving to me, but rather that you're pulling a bunch of posts out that are easy to push, which feels like a scum mentality (especially given that you labeled such a method as scummy when talking abt how people might push penguin here, and i think scum are subconsciously hyper-attuned to the tactics theu're using as scum). And going back to ss/aaron, doesnt feel to me like you particularly care which goes (interestingly, i dont see you having a similarly cavalier attitude towards implo, which may point to partners)
3. For someone who's following along for several days before repping in, your posting is underwhelming. Ig i wouldnt mind underwhelming from a repin in a vaccum per se, but you were boasting abt following well before that, so where are the reads that i might expect that reading to produde?

~
also, how are you reading my alot btw?

Also: i liked theor response to shirou's rep-in, their confusion and pushback felt townie to me

~ skitteR

[petapan]

Peta ig my response to your response is hmmmmm. Like i dont have much to say on you going on abt the difference between town and scum you

There's a few different things i dont like abt your takes:
1. Your reads seem to be skewed towards scumreading people more than townreading people, which is odd because i feel like most people in this game dont have nearly as many scumreads as you do
2. Related: but i almost feel like you're trying to nudge peple towards either the ss or aff wagons, but like, without prejudice and not overtly? You write something like you'd vote ss 10/10 times, but also pull a bunch of aff posts, say you dont like them, and dont mind voting there. (You also pulled a bunchnof schiavetto's posts and similarly made a 1-liner abt how this is bad). This latter method doesnt really feel like solving to me, but rather that you're pulling a bunch of posts out that are easy to push, which feels like a scum mentality (especially given that you labeled such a method as scummy when talking abt how people might push penguin here, and i think scum are subconsciously hyper-attuned to the tactics theu're using as scum). And going back to ss/aaron, doesnt feel to me like you particularly care which goes (interestingly, i dont see you having a similarly cavalier attitude towards implo, which may point to partners)
3. For someone who's following along for several days before repping in, your posting is underwhelming. Ig i wouldnt mind underwhelming from a repin in a vaccum per se, but you were boasting abt following well before that, so where are the reads that i might expect that reading to produde?

~
also, how are you reading my alot btw?

Also: i liked theor response to shirou's rep-in, their confusion and pushback felt townie to me

~ skitteR

1. are they skewed toward scumreading people? i actually feel as though i have produced relatively few scumreads.
2. this feels like you're not fully reading what i'm saying. my comment about voting s_s 10/10 times was

specifically

in relation to him with implosion as the counterwagon, where i don't find the reasons for voting implosion to be compelling. my way of expressing a scumread of aaronfrost may be lazy, but it's still how i feel even if i'm not going so far as to type out a full-blown case on it, that's just b/c i don't feel that amount of explanation is necessary. you are right that i don't care a lot! i think ben was scummy and recent experience tells me if someone is playing scummy and claims a PR you should say screw it and vote them anyway. him getting replaced by a stronger player doesn't make a ton of difference to me, although i admit you're right that smart has done some things that are kind of town for him so i understand the trepidation and am fine with aaronfrost as the secondary vote.
3. i have a disjointed string of notes that i never bothered compiling into full blown reads because i do not care and most of the game is probably still in the gray area for me

4. probably town, but not to a confidence level where i feel comfortable expressing it unprompted
5. see, that's interesting that you townread seCret's pushback on shirou, because outside of that i think they've been ~fine but i felt like some of the arguments seCret was making there felt rather underhanded

[Bridgeburners]

1. ig this kinda ties into a what i was saying in one of the later points - you've done this thing a few times, where you just pull out a bunch of posts from somebody's iso, label them bad, and ig it feels to me like a lot of shade that isn't going anywhere (AFF, schiavetto, complaining abt votes on the implo wagon), and it feels discordant with the fact that so many other people are struggling to find townreads, and you're just, like, shading a lot of people. i'm not sure you're like explicitly going: i scumread players A, b, c, d, and e. that's kinda why i'm calling it more subtle, and why i kinda agree with you that you ahven't produced that many scumreads. however, despite few *explicit* scumreads, there's a lot of shade coming from your slot, which is sort of having the overall effect of like weakening other players' positions in the game by adding to a chorus of people stating scumreads/not-townreads on a particular player. the thing is that yours don't feel like you actually have those reads, but rather that you're contributing to the noise and confusion if that makes sense

2. (ig the above point bleeds into this one as well). and i have a few comments here: a) why are you townreading implo so strongly that the rest of your positioning this eod seems to revolve around him? b) this is kinda ignoring my point r.e. penguin, and casting people as scummy, in general c) i may have misread what you were saying r.e. voting ss, so ok sure i retract that point in particular. d) but you just, like, idk feel like you're trying to position yourself this eod more than i feel like you're trying to flip scum this eod, and i do feel like you're trying to justify votes and shade people and like idk it feels a little manipulative and slimy to me (in the sense that i think you may be scum trying to like make a good gamestate for your team and firm up your positioning by weakening that of many of the weaker-positioned players, not in the sense that i feel like you're playing underhandedly or in a way that i find distasteful, to be clear)

3. also this seems kinda incongruent to me: you were following along enough to know you want to be in this game and were tracking things for several days before repping in, but you have no real reads from that experience? that doesn't, like, fully 'gel' to me

4. you're talking to me like you're townreading me, and like you want me to not be scumreading you
5. what didn't you like from sechyd in the shirou rep-in? right around there is where townreading them sort of 'clicked' for me

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

i'm curious to see what you are calling "worse" there

he didn't even play after claiming

this day has been going on way too long

anyway hello i skimmed what i missed
still prefer s_s but i guess not so much to try to push it against consensus

my last memory of implo and aaron is that i preferred an implo vote but
peta, you ever give the sparknotes on implo!town?