Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[implosion]

"suddenly"

the wagon was stalled for what felt like a fucking week.

[implosion]

i also hate the line of argument s_s is making right now >_>

[seCret hYdra]

like, sure. but i could make an equally valid argument that if we go on aaron then we have not only the usefulness of looking at how his wagon sprang up out of nowhere, but also the early wagon on him and how it competed with the isis wagon, if he flips town.

It just feels fully arbitrary.

aaron wouldn't be a terrible flip, but I would prefer to stick to our scumreads

i really don't see what you are trying to push here

is it so scummy of me to advocate pushing our scumreads over what seems to be a consensus wagon?

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

I don't know? Because they are just wrong in that case? Is that impossible/improbable?

It is improbable. They both know me well and can read me well, I don't think the same is true for you? I can't recall how many games we've played together, but I don't think it's as many. And I think they're more confident on me being town than you are on me being scum, given that you're pushing for me or implosion and not deathtunneling me.

[seCret hYdra]

Why not isis? She improved a lot over the day. It was a good early wagon.
Why not aaron? Everyone can push there if they like. I don't see it.

I prefer sticking to the slots my other head and I are *actually* scumreading

-seCret

so the "information" thing is fully just a back-justification then?

in my opinion, either flip on you or SS (with a MAJOR preference for ss in my case) is objectively the best thing to do here

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

the competing wagons near eod right now are me and aaron...

because attention suddenly completely shifted away from SS for ?? reasons

i don't like that

-seCret

have you heard of stalling

trust me, i'm still incredibly annoyed that ben repped out instead of stepping into the ring with me
my scumread on SS slot is still coming from ben, but I haven't seen SS improve it.

-seCret

[implosion]

i'm just trying to dig into where this information argument is coming from because 1916/1918 to me implied that it was like, a first-class reason for you to vote for one of me/s_s. Like, the fact that we'd get a lot of information was part of what was motivating you to push one of us. And I'm trying to dig into that because your argument about why our wagons in particular would give a lot of information is completely arbitrary. You're now saying that the motivation is based on you pushing scumreads? is it a mix of both, or is your motivation just coming from you looking for reasons to push the people you already scumread?

[implosion]

in my opinion,

objectively the best thi

alright let's just, go back to my homework then

[seCret hYdra]

I prefer sticking to the slots my other head and I are *actually* scumreading

Why do you scumread me and implosion?

i don't think we've been hiding our reasons for anything this game...

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

I want Datisi to weigh in on this exchange ASAP.

[seCret hYdra]

in my opinion,

objectively the best thi

alright let's just, go back to my homework then

[implosion]

oh yeah i came here bc i was waiting for a script to run. sad.

I actually am starting to come around that S_S could be town but I don't really feel like thinking about it too hard right now.

[seCret hYdra]

i'm just trying to dig into where this information argument is coming from because 1916/1918 to me implied that it was like, a first-class reason for you to vote for one of me/s_s. Like, the fact that we'd get a lot of information was part of what was motivating you to push one of us. And I'm trying to dig into that because your argument about why our wagons in particular would give a lot of information is completely arbitrary. You're now saying that the motivation is based on you pushing scumreads? is it a mix of both, or is your motivation just coming from you looking for reasons to push the people you already scumread?

i have been pushing ben slot for as long as i can remember this game
it's literally been my numero uno scumreads for ages, and should be clear if you iso read me

the information thing is whatever it is. True in my opinion, but yeah it might be arbitrary. That doesn't take away my scumread.

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

i don't think we've been hiding our reasons for anything this game...

After digging through your ISO it looks like your ben scumread is based mostly on a specific post (671). Is that accurate?

[seCret hYdra]

here's a question for you

why would scum!me be unhappy with an aaron wagon at this point, enough so to justify taking so much heat just to get attention back onto you?
Taking out a scum!me +scum!aaron team, I can just see that wagon go EoD compromise and then get back to the 2 of you tomorrow for a cage deathmatch.

This is me genuinely scumreading SS slot, wanting a flip there with a compromise on implo because my other head is telling me so.

-seCret

[implosion]

i'm probably reading too much into 1918 to be fair.

[seCret hYdra]

i don't think we've been hiding our reasons for anything this game...

After digging through your ISO it looks like your ben scumread is based mostly on a specific post (671). Is that accurate?

absolutely

-seCret

[implosion]

here's a question for you

why would scum!me be unhappy with an aaron wagon at this point, enough so to justify taking so much heat just to get attention back onto you?
Taking out a scum!me +scum!aaron team, I can just see that wagon go EoD compromise and then get back to the 2 of you tomorrow for a cage deathmatch.

This is me genuinely scumreading SS slot, wanting a flip there with a compromise on implo because my other head is telling me so.

-seCret

I mean, this is kind of a silly question? For the same reason that anyone as scum would ever want to fabricate a read. To make it look like you have genuine reads.

I could elaborate but like, what?

[seCret hYdra]

I get that you might be salty for being in my wanna lim bracket right now, but don't try to frame it like it ain't genuine implo

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

why would scum!me be unhappy with an aaron wagon at this point, enough so to justify taking so much heat just to get attention back onto you?

I don't feel like you would, though I have a pretty strong bias toward reading hard pushes as town, so the answer is presumably "because you thought you would do it as town."

Re: 671, is it entirely the section where he agrees with Scipio that your content was low? He didn't use it as a basis for a push on you, so why would he be more likely to make that mistake as scum than as town?

[seCret hYdra]

why would scum!me be unhappy with an aaron wagon at this point, enough so to justify taking so much heat just to get attention back onto you?

I don't feel like you would, though I have a pretty strong bias toward reading hard pushes as town, so the answer is presumably "because you thought you would do it as town."

Re: 671, is it entirely the section where he agrees with Scipio that your content was low? He didn't use it as a basis for a push on you, so why would he be more likely to make that mistake as scum than as town?

ben framed that sentence in a way as to enable scipio to push that thought. It was a shady way to do it. Where Scipio kinda felt genuine in their thoughts on us, Ben tried to 'nudge' scip into pushing us over it. Like pulling strings. It's still pinging me right now to the point i'd just vig your slot if i had a shot. All how I read it of course. I'm not saying this is actually what happened.

And then after I call ben out, he disappears. Comes back with a naked claim and reps out without anything. Yeah. Not seeing why I shouldn't keep pushing this.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I don't feel like you would, though I have a pretty strong bias toward reading hard pushes as town, so the answer is presumably "because you thought you would do it as town."

yeah ok fair enough but that's an argument that goes for literally anything anyone would do ever

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

Why is it that ben

wouldn't

act that way as town? Like, you're not tunneling peta, so clearly you accept that the "SH has been lurking" thought could have genuinely come from town. So why is it unlikely that ben just had that thought on his own and mentioned it when Scipio brought it up?

[seCret hYdra]

Why is it that ben

wouldn't

act that way as town? Like, you're not tunneling peta, so clearly you accept that the "SH has been lurking" thought could have genuinely come from town. So why is it unlikely that ben just had that thought on his own and mentioned it when Scipio brought it up?

because he didn't act on it, and it truly reads like he was hoping to push Scip into action v us based on that. Enabling him.
If Scip v Ben righ there was a town v town interaction, i'm confident it would have gone something like 'oh yeah i feel the same way lets push that together?' or smt.

-seCret

[Something_Smart]

yeah ok fair enough but that's an argument that goes for literally anything anyone would do ever

well yeah, that's why asking "why would X do Y as scum" is usually not going to return a useful answer. I generally only apply that kind of logic when either it's a situation where they know they would do it as town but they also think it would be detrimental to them, or a situation where they might not know that they'd do it as town. Scum-you might not know that you would continue this push as town; I don't know you well enough to say that confidently. (That's one of the reasons why I want to hear from Datisi.)