Mini Normal 2197: Noraaland ~Endgame~

[ItalianoVD]

Second and better.
VOTE: In the beginning

[ItalianoVD]

Hey Murder.

[ItalianoVD]

Hmm

Why the

Hmm

?

[ItalianoVD]

No one did anything wrong but I wanted to say that there will be ZERO negativity or toxicity in this game. This game is filled with my besties and you will all be kind and nice or else I'll kick you with my beary paw(Only I'm allowed to be a bully). I uh forgot to put this in the OP in bold so it gets a separate post.

Think of this game like chili. It has to be bell pepper level spice. If it ever comes close to jalapeño, everyone is getting kicked. On an unrelated note, jalapeños are yummy.

Sounds good.

[ItalianoVD]

Definite scum on MURDERCAT.

[ItalianoVD]

Also Flea is voting for Statue

You saw nothing

[ItalianoVD]

Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Somewhere in the late bloomers: Titus, Statue, In the beginning

[ItalianoVD]

I can see the MC rvs wagon being all town, but if scum did decide to join the RVS wagon, I would look at either Gamma or titus.

The thought of an all town wagon did cross my mind, but would consensus town really be that comfortable bringing any wagon that close to elimination within the first two pages?

I don't see scum making INBs vote paired with the post and statues could be but I feel like people would look at the people at the end of the rvs wagon harder than they would at the people who started it so scum would avoid tagging on in the end

Great point! It is kind of a blind spot.

[ItalianoVD]

I guess it's best to wait for the voters to come in and give us their perspective.

[ItalianoVD]

Lol you were in the game where koba hammered you on like page 2 and they were your scumbuddy right?

Lol I was.

[ItalianoVD]

This is cool...

I'm here, I voted murder because I always RVS murder and the vote is now kinda serious

But what is this? (bolded)

I liked how you asked me about titus,

but I still think you're scum

You think he’s scum? How?

[ItalianoVD]

*monches some french fry sammiches*

Ya'll got serious quickly, also wow I'm glad I was off that wagon o.o that was way too close

This is town.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh, good catch Italiano. E-1 this early is a bit much.

I agree there is likely scum there, will take a look in a bit. Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Vote on Ari now srs.

VOTE: Ari

Is agreeing scummy for Aristophanes? I’ve never played them.

[ItalianoVD]

It just reads as fake to me. Why wouldn't Ari look and decide who is scummy? I feel like those sorts of questions come from scum more often than not.
Also "good catch" reads as kinda fake when it comes directly after a VC lol

It was weird to me. I didn’t say anything because having never played with him thought it may be something I was overthinking

[ItalianoVD]

I have history with murder, it's a soulread.

But within a few nothing posts?

[ItalianoVD]

{infinity, Ari, Italian}

How do you view MURDERCAT?

[ItalianoVD]

@Noraa, MURDERCAT is voting Ari now.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm not really sure what to think of MURDERCAT's hero solve. It seems not to jive with what his perspective should be, namely that scum deliberately wagoned him to claim. Which would mean at least one of Statue and Beginning should be in his solve. Also, Ari being in his solve is entirely opportunistic. If MURDERCAT is scum and the rule of 3 applies then Infinity should be scum as well.

That theory makes sense with MURDERCAT interogating Infinity but his vote going to Ari.

It's a weak theory though.

I'm vibing with this, but what do you think of Aristophanes 42?

[ItalianoVD]

Statue is missing the love right now and I'm slightly suspicious of them.

VOTE: StatueSurfer

[ItalianoVD]

Why is it's closeness to elimination such a concern? This reads to me as scum who are glad they aren't going to be scrutinized because they weren't on the wagon. I'll be sure to keep an eye on you.

Seriously? Doesn't sound like something any scum would say.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, so you think there is scum based on the way the wagon formed. My response to this is that people put a lot less weight to votes very early and will wagon people up in an attempt to see where they go.

Yes. I get that, but the fast forming RVS wagons that get to elimination are not common in my site experience and regardless of the alignment wagonee, I've found that there's gonna be at least one scum on it. And the probability for more scum rises the more votes it takes to eliminate 7,9,11, etc.

Anyone who actually lolhammers tends to get scrutinized the following day like what happened to you in Mini Normal 2193 after your day 1 hammer.

Well that scenario was different because we were close to deadline and it definitely wasn't RVS. Kinda different circumstances here.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm also honestly having a soul connection with MC which is weird

I thought you townread him so why is it weird?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm also honestly having a soul connection with MC which is weird

Why is it weird?

Oh... ok.

[ItalianoVD]

I guess it's best to wait for the voters to come in and give us their perspective.

I think your idea of where scum is makes sense due to my unique perspective of thinking me and infinity like had similar thought behind choosing to RVS murdercat which makes our votes rather NAI.

Momrangal mentioned the blind spot of the early voters and how most players don't look there, so while it's likely I'd look at the late voters it's best that I also keep my eye on the early voters as well. Scum can use RVS as a reason for being on a wagon.

[ItalianoVD]

42 pinged me at first, I think it's just ari's writing style

Literally, I get this a lot XD

And like, I have for years so *shrugs* whatcha gunna do I guess!

Man, I'm vibing with this here, lol. Same. I think that's why I get scumread a lot. I also sometimes can't express what's in my head right and so the words sound strange when I right and then I gotta correct and explain.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm also honestly having a soul connection with MC which is weird

I thought you townread him so why is it weird?

It makes him more likely town. It means that he is going beyond surface level but I also feel like, if too many people are seeing the same thing (now that gamma has brought up the same post MC and I both disliked) it means that a bigger picture is being missed

Well I don’t know MURDERCAT scum, but it was kind of weird his laid back reaction to what he thought was E-2. Is MURDERCAT usually that calm in that situation?

And I think somebody said something like this. Who was it?

[ItalianoVD]

And I think somebody said something like this. Who was it?

Oh, it was Infinity.

[ItalianoVD]

yup, murdercat - being a flareon - can take the heat and remain quite cool

yup, murdercat - being a flareon - can take the heat and remain quite cool

Good to know.

I get town: from Flea, Mom, Aristophanes

Scum vibes from: Statue

Null: Everyone else

Gamma didn’t clear me as town when we were scum buddies so not sure how that looks for others. Doesn’t automatically clear you buddy.

[ItalianoVD]

Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Somewhere in the late bloomers: Titus, Statue, In the beginning

Wanna reeval this real quick...

Titus: has had townie posts, but I didn’t like the naked votes [MURDER, Johnny]. Nothing has really stood out other than that. And maybe the vote on Murder comes from town!Titus, not sure. This will probably be a spot I’d need help from the players who have more experience with her to properly rate.

Statue: It may just be gut, but I’m still feeling scum!statue here. 218 feels weird. It’s not all bad, but it just feels weird. I’ll get into later. Also @statue, have you ever played with MURDER before?

In the beginning: gonna stay at null for the time being. We were scum teammates in our last game. Posting style is pretty much the same but wouldn’t know what to expect from town!itb anyway. I’ve liked some things and I’ve disliked some things. Will be in a similar place as Titus as far as players knowing what stands out.

I got no shame in sheeping; when it makes sense. Of course if I see something that doesn’t sit right with me I’m gonna push it regardless.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m just commenting on the things that stood out to me in 218. If I don’t point it out then it wasn’t that bad.

@INB: Okay, if you want an analysis of the MC wagon, there's, like a 90% chance or whatever of scum being on the wagon. Except that's assuming it's random, when it probably isn't. Frankly, it's almost exactly as helpful to say that "there is definitely scum

off

the wagon," so I don't see any special reason to focus on people on the wagon vs people off the wagon, or to use it as a reason to SR anyone.

True, but you can’t just rule it out because it’s information.

Titus:

Titus' posts, by and large, don't seem very substantive to me. There's a weak (her word, not mine) read on Murdercat, a naked vote on Infinity that's basically a sheep of Mara, and then a jump onto Johnny (which is very understandable, and which I'm going to be doing at the end of this post, but could also be an easy miselim for scum to push). She does correctly point out why my second post was terrible, but that's it. Scumlean.

Titus was actually the first non-RVS vote onto Johnny, so not a Mara sheep (who I’m guessing in Mom??) The strange thing about this is that you listed voting for Johnny on the list of things you scumlean Titus for, but admit you’ll be voting for him and also that he’s possibly an easy miselim for scum to push. So then why didn’t you vote for Titus?

Jackson Virgo:

No read, because they've had barely any activity up until now and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why would you need to give them the benefit of the doubt if you have no read on them, they barely had any activity, and according to you they haven’t done anything scummy?

[ItalianoVD]

I wanna TR the effort from a new player, I don't agree that what you pointed out are scumtells for a new player

Nah, I’m not telling this. Personally I’m not putting anything past anyone anymore, lol.

[ItalianoVD]

Let's not deal in absolutes. Mafia isn't that kind of game. I think it makes perfect sense as scum; it's one of those "hindsight is 20/20" style comments, and those are more likely from scum who knows a player is/was town and thus purposely stayed off the wagon.

Not dealing in absolutes, but am dealing it’s what’s most likely and this...

...and I definitely agree with ITB that scum would be glad to not be a townie's turbowagon.

Yeah scum most likely don’t want to be on the wagon, but they’re not gonna SAY it, they’re just gonna NOT be on it. Him bringing attention to it is a looseness I see coming from town. I’m not just disregarding it being openwolfing, but I also wanna give players respect and not think they’d be that reckless.

[ItalianoVD]

I wanna TR the effort from a new player, I don't agree that what you pointed out are scumtells for a new player

Nah, I’m not telling this. Personally I’m not putting anything past anyone anymore, lol.

crap! *feeling, not telling.

[ItalianoVD]

Is this a general rejection of the wagon or of the sequential votes.

The wagon and I think the votes are weak

Why don’t you join us on Statue?

[ItalianoVD]

I said Titus was sheeping Mara (yes, Momrangal) when she voted for Infinity, not for Johnny. And while everything I said is true, it doesn't change the fact that Johnny is really scummy, and I think he's scummier than Titus right now.

Oh my bad, I definitely read that wrong. I don’t think there is enough for Johnny to be as scummy as you feel he is.

[ItalianoVD]

I need to sort these other slots.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm starting with you Infinity.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry so I had some personal stuff to do so I only got halfway done with your iso. I'll try to get to the rest tomorrow.

Spoiler:

Not sure if you saw it, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on 32.

The thought of an all town wagon did cross my mind, but would consensus town really be that comfortable bringing any wagon that close to elimination within the first two pages?

Lol you were in the game where koba hammered you on like page 2 and they were your scumbuddy right?

Did this somehow do anything for you trying to sort my slot?

I'm here, I voted murder because I always RVS murder and the vote is now kinda serious

In 72 you mentioned the real reason you scumread MURDER is because of gut so was your initial vote RVS or straight out gut?

61 and 63 are pretty ironic. I actually lol'd at it. Were you serious? I just think it funny how you scumread someone and then ask why they would scumread you, like it's an impossible thing.

I'm E-2, fyi

This post was scummy to me because it's like "hey make sure not to kill me" but you don't contribute anything.

Eh, maybe, but what's there to contribute on page 2? And wouldn't he just say that in the scumchat?

Your 67 in response to 66 seems unreasonable or just theatre.

I understand gutreads. Sometimes it's the little things that you're able to catch. 78 89 and 92 are where you point to this. I've done this myself and it's all good, but then why this...

I'm not really one for soulreads especially within the first couple of pages. I'll leave it be since it's apparently not uncommon for Infinity but I also think it is an easy place for scum to hide and/or pockets to be lined depending on usage.

I get this, and I'll stop focusing on murder so much if it's not useful. To be fair, I think I would have trouble faking a read like this as scum, and I generally have trouble faking SRs as scum. I think murder should know that too, which is why I don't see his SR on me coming from town. Gamma mentioned the game he modded where I was scum and murder was town--there, murder had doubts about my alignment and lots of people (including his neighbor) were SRing me, but he was willing to cooperate with me and work with me for the time being. Here he's like not doing that, he asked me about titus but the cooperative energy isn't there.

Ok onto other slots.

If this soulread was as strong as you made it why jump off of it just because Ari calls you out? Do you still scumread MURDER? Is it some type of test or something?

I am looking forward to statue's reads. I find his current post underwhelming because it seeks to undermine townreads but doesn't really put forth scumreads.

Summary: Infinity isn't persuasive. Maybe there's scum on the murdercat wagon, maybe not. ITB is strange (note: no conclusion). People townread Flea too easily. No conclusion as to who is townreading Flea too easily. No conclusion as to whether that's townie or scummy. No conclusion as to Flea's alignment.

A lot of words, but it says nothing. I want to see more.

This post feels towny, also I think it's towny for titus to speculate the me/murder scum theater, she likes to sound more reasonable as scum. Not sure I agree with statue scum.

So you're saying Titus' theatre speculation is unreasonable?

I'm going to be busy the next couple days but I'll hope in soon thereafter

When you come back, I'm interested to know what you think of my vote

Why?

Fixed broken post links

[ItalianoVD]

I'm up.

[ItalianoVD]

But not for long.

[ItalianoVD]

Lol what are the chances someone pulled a board games here

I’m sorry what does this mean? And does it correlate with your vote?

[ItalianoVD]

Ahh okay, that all makes sense.

It kinda sucks Statue didn’t think to tell us not to execute him. He just kinda gave up there.

Anyway, I’ve had some suspicion here

VOTE: In the beginning

I’ll be back in the afternoon. I didn’t forget about you Infinity.

[ItalianoVD]

No, vote Titus. Or disagree with me and tell me why. It's a short iso

I disagree. I believe there are better slots to go for. I don’t know what you saw/felt from Titus, but I can’t say I felt the same thing you did regarding the Day 1 wagons.

[ItalianoVD]

Anyway, this is where I was going with the statue wagon

It was an utterly shit wagon being led by another one of my scum reads and, all the while, there were other slots who were look at with reasons that were just slightly better than the reasons used to wagon hoth Jhonny and Statue. There was very little resistance and I feel like scum played a big hand in getting it pushed

You really couldn’t have posted this on Friday when Toogle asked you to elaborate? I know you said you are generally gone on the weekends, but I’m just a little annoyed by this.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry my peeps. From now on I'm not gonna promise things that I'm gonna do, I'm just either gonna do them or not do them. Will address Infinity as a whole in a moment because this post actually connects to it.

For me, on Day 2, Johnny has looked the worse. I don't like the Titus vote. I also don't like the way he tried to persuade me to go that route. His "And nah, I voted Titus because they had the biggest "i know both these wagons are on townies" energy of anyone yesterday" in 410 is just literally wrong. That was actually Momrangal and to an extent in the beginning. This is a lie and bad shade.

So I did his iso just now and it feels like it's missing something. Like he's not really trying to sort anyone and/or solve the game, just throwing shade everywhere.

Is agreeing scummy for Aristophanes? I’ve never played them.

There's a manipulative side to him, def

Doesn't answer the question really. I would've like to have known if agreeing is just his personality/playstyle and ultimately nai or if there is something else going on. Telling me there is a manipulative side is telling me nothing.

Ur scummy

In reference to Infinity's 171. Getting upset in 315 is in itself nai, but here it seemed slightly over the top. 389 sounds like a sheep of 369.

I also feel like a made a mistake by saying there was scum on MURDERCAT because it seemed like Johnny just jumped on that pretty quickly.

Oh, good catch Italiano. E-1 this early is a bit much.

I agree there is likely scum there, will take a look in a bit. Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Gamma or Titus. Mayyyyybe statue

Just too quick to jump on imo.

VOTE: Johnny

And yeah I'm sheeping Titus. Don't care what anyone says.

[ItalianoVD]

Infinity would you be good voting for Johnny again? I don't really see the "looking better" from him like you mentioned in 343.

I finished your iso and I'm thinking you might be town, but your movements/reasons have been a little weird. On MURDERCAT, on Johnny, off Johnny, and now on Jackson. I'm gonna place you at a null townlean for now, but I wanna see more from Day 2 as a whole.

If Johnny is in fact scum, it's not out of the realm of possibility that you could be partners given both your interactions and positioning around each other's the slots.

[ItalianoVD]

Also MURDERCAT you have been somewhat quiet imo even though you have the most posts in the game. I don't know I've played two games with you I believe, and you just seemed more involved in those games; like a more lasting effect in your posts and movements. This game it feels like you are on the outside looking in instead of inside trying to figure things out.

[ItalianoVD]

Did you draft this post in a PT?

This was about 365

Ahh I did actually and didn't know it would link there. Noraa got it fixed for me.

[ItalianoVD]

Also MURDERCAT you have been somewhat quiet imo even though you have the most posts in the game. I don't know I've played two games with you I believe, and you just seemed more involved in those games; like a more lasting effect in your posts and movements. This game it feels like you are on the outside looking in instead of inside trying to figure things out.

This is odd that you just mention this now

Why is it odd? I've had my eyes elsewhere.

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh

Let's just

VOTE: italiano

What are you doing? Don't just throw stuff out there and expect to hit something.

Do you even have a read on anyone else at all?

Come on?! Really? So I've just been twiddling my thumbs here huh? I don't hero solve and try to figure out the game on Day 1. I thought Statue was scum, I was wrong. So what I haven't laid out a wall post with every little detail of why I think what I think. No one has. Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

[ItalianoVD]

Well you had my eyes on my early SR on murder for a very similar reason, why didn't you point it out at the time?

Your "scumread" was gut and within the first few pages of the game, so of course I'm gonna question it and try to understand what's happening. The difference is I'm not scumreading MURDER and I have a lot more content and time. So my asking this question is way less questionable than you.

[ItalianoVD]

@Momrangal: How do you feel about your scumread voting with you? Or did he magically become town in your eyes?

[ItalianoVD]

Your reaction over a single vote is pretty amusing though

I actually couldn't careless about your vote on me, that's part of the game, what pisses me off is this shade of "do you even have any reads of anyone else at all" like I've done nothing but come in and naked vote and bounce. Sure I haven't been as active in this game the way I've wanted to, but I've been steady trying to figure this game out so I don't like how this is being framed.

Why exactly do you scumread me? You had me in your poe early Day 1, but haven't really done anything to sort me, so what are you doing?

[ItalianoVD]

495 is fair enough. I respect that. I disagree.

[ItalianoVD]

Just a little sprinkle of fairy dust over my eyes helped me realize infinity loyalty to queen Noraa over king poseidon

You don't seem to be taking this serious.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano is trying to look town, titus isn't

How am I trying to look town?

[ItalianoVD]

How do you feel about my push onto you Johnny? Am I wrong for townleaning Titus?

[ItalianoVD]

You blockheads need to stop voting for me and actually look at the game! Open your minds and think!