Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Isis]

I went to look to see who infinity was voting so I could sheep a townie but I guess it's also implosion so.

[Infinity 324]

Kind of low on energy to commit to this game rn.

If I wind up getting flash-rest-of-the-wagon'd then just, like, my dying will is that you at least reconsider penguin. And also i still have no idea why people are taking N_M out of their PoE. I feel pretty good about this game even if i'm ME'd here with shirou being dead. Except for the other wagon today being on bridge. Still don't think bridge flips scum in this game. at least, like, quite rarely.

Yeah implo is scum.

One of the reasons I wanted to vote implo is I wanted to see if he would have his energy sapped from scum being in a bad spot really early; isis in ss3 reminded me of this. This is exactly that.

Also I have recent firsthand experience

[PenguinPower]

oh i missed implosion had become the leading wagon

by all means

VOTE: implosion

[implosion]

Kind of low on energy to commit to this game rn.

If I wind up getting flash-rest-of-the-wagon'd then just, like, my dying will is that you at least reconsider penguin. And also i still have no idea why people are taking N_M out of their PoE. I feel pretty good about this game even if i'm ME'd here with shirou being dead. Except for the other wagon today being on bridge. Still don't think bridge flips scum in this game. at least, like, quite rarely.

Yeah implo is scum.

One of the reasons I wanted to vote implo is I wanted to see if he would have his energy sapped from scum being in a bad spot really early; isis in ss3 reminded me of this. This is exactly that.

Also I have recent firsthand experience

You mean like, firsthand experience of you having energy sapped?

To be clear, as I said, the energy sapping thing was strictly from life stuff and I am now feeling a lot better about this game (or at least, am actually enjoying it again atm even if I don't feel confident about reads).

I really don't see why people are critical of Ico's spate of posting. I think it shows an earnestness that scum in a bad spot who is drained from having dealt with RL stuff and who then had to deal with his hydra partner being piled on would have trouble showing. I don't see why 2909 is actively bad, it seems neutral to me. The kind of things that peta and skitter are pointing out e.g. 2895 are just not alignment indicative to me. Like, the fact that he's talking about peta + skitter as scum does show that he's either missing pieces of game state or not explaining some far-out theory but I don't see why missing a piece of game state like that would be scum-indicative. I don't think scum is more likely to just like, have missed the entire first half of today so far, and I don't see why scum-ico posits that scum pairing if he read the beginning of the day. It's not like scum would forget how much the two were at each others' throats. It would have to be just purely sloppy. I agree it's not something that makes a ton of sense from town; it's also not something that makes a ton of sense from scum.

I also like some individual posts in the spate, like 2879, 2889 (i am biased but etc), and the fact that he's describing things from me that he sees as townish but still isn't putting me in his town pile.

I also don't understand why skitter is saying she needs help on ico after she was already scumreading him and seemingly he posted... more scummy stuff, as she saw it? Like I'm sure she will have some reason for it but it really feels like something she could do as scum to like, inject some nuance into the read/interface with a townie/etc. Idk. A couple people already commented on it being weird and I can't quite put together why I don't like it because it is probably something that town skitter can do too.

[implosion]

Datisi, do you have anyone that you're leaning scum on right now or are you still in the sort of apathetic state you described earlier or?

[Infinity 324]

To be clear, as I said, the energy sapping thing was strictly from life stuff and I am now feeling a lot better about this game (or at least, am actually enjoying it again atm even if I don't feel confident about reads).

This is fair

[petapan]

Kind of low on energy to commit to this game rn.

If I wind up getting flash-rest-of-the-wagon'd then just, like, my dying will is that you at least reconsider penguin. And also i still have no idea why people are taking N_M out of their PoE. I feel pretty good about this game even if i'm ME'd here with shirou being dead. Except for the other wagon today being on bridge. Still don't think bridge flips scum in this game. at least, like, quite rarely.

Yeah implo is scum.

One of the reasons I wanted to vote implo is I wanted to see if he would have his energy sapped from scum being in a bad spot really early; isis in ss3 reminded me of this. This is exactly that.

Also I have recent firsthand experience

You mean like, firsthand experience of you having energy sapped?

To be clear, as I said, the energy sapping thing was strictly from life stuff and I am now feeling a lot better about this game (or at least, am actually enjoying it again atm even if I don't feel confident about reads).

I really don't see why people are critical of Ico's spate of posting. I think it shows an earnestness that scum in a bad spot who is drained from having dealt with RL stuff and who then had to deal with his hydra partner being piled on would have trouble showing. I don't see why 2909 is actively bad, it seems neutral to me. The kind of things that peta and skitter are pointing out e.g. 2895 are just not alignment indicative to me. Like, the fact that he's talking about peta + skitter as scum does show that he's either missing pieces of game state or not explaining some far-out theory but I don't see why missing a piece of game state like that would be scum-indicative. I don't think scum is more likely to just like, have missed the entire first half of today so far, and I don't see why scum-ico posits that scum pairing if he read the beginning of the day. It's not like scum would forget how much the two were at each others' throats. It would have to be just purely sloppy. I agree it's not something that makes a ton of sense from town; it's also not something that makes a ton of sense from scum.

I also like some individual posts in the spate, like 2879, 2889 (i am biased but etc), and the fact that he's describing things from me that he sees as townish but still isn't putting me in his town pile.

I also don't understand why skitter is saying she needs help on ico after she was already scumreading him and seemingly he posted... more scummy stuff, as she saw it? Like I'm sure she will have some reason for it but it really feels like something she could do as scum to like, inject some nuance into the read/interface with a townie/etc. Idk. A couple people already commented on it being weird and I can't quite put together why I don't like it because it is probably something that town skitter can do too.

do i need to tell you what alignment is less likely to read everything posted in the thread, or wonder why his hydra partner is seemingly not filling him in

[Datisi]

@peta well that's too fucking bad because i genuinely thought (and still think) that his read on sechyd was garbage!! like sure maybe i am wrong on it being a scum one but it was bad and you cannot change my mind. also like it's p obvious? if the read feels like it was bullshitted, then it would make him scum bc town generally does not do that. (note that while i still very much think it was garbage, maybe it wasn't bullshitted.)

okay?? little weirdly over the top here. my point is even if you viscerally disagreed with the read, an immediate "terrible take die scum" is, like, going 0 to 100 in 2 seconds and that is bothersome behavior because as i explained, having a read you don't like doesn't necessarily mean it comes from scum and i am less inclined to see infinity-scum making that read at all, you just sort of jumped to that conclusion

this is avoiding the point thati'm not sure what you're dong in this game anymore, you haven't been scumhunting, i don't actually know where you stand on anyone, you being disinterested and no longer super town looking like i thought on day 1 is concerning

reskimmed shirou/ico from d1 and i still really don't think that is s/s

the thing is, i would probably still agree with this, and i'm not going to argue seccy d is exactly the sk, but it is not strong enough reason for me to overlook a strong level of individual scumminess from gypyx's posting (and, uh, iconeum has not alleviated that feeling). i think that's aways going to override any associative read for me

let me be over the top if i want to goddammit

ok but here's the thing, peta: it looked f a k e a s f u c k to me. like did it think that i might have been wrong? yeah sure wouldn't be the first nor the last time. but infinity was on zero votes. he wasn't on e-1, or n_m's e-1, he was on zero votes. what does it matter. why would i not vote there. we can sit here and argue, but like you're not gonna convince me that my infinity suspicion was bad because you happen to not see how one gets that read?

lol lemme tell you a secret, i'm also not sure what i'm doing. though i feel like that is decently false, like i'm obv town on ico, i'm trending town on infinity, i said implo's reads kinda don't make sense as scum, i said you/skit is prob t/t, like? read. also like lol what can i tell you. that's what happens when day 1 is 40 pages and 7 days longer than it needed to be, and also everyone left alive in the game has some sorta reasons to be townie.

Daaaaaaaaaats i need help with ico

Ok and?

What did you think he was going to say?

maybe these latest posts were actually scumconeum meta to a t and i'm the only one with the knowledge to know that. you don't know.
(they're not tho)

Datisi, do you have anyone that you're leaning scum on right now or are you still in the sort of apathetic state you described earlier or?

yes

for real, if something were different i'd have posted it in thread. gut machine gets stuck sometimes.

could you remake one of these? i reckon it's quite outdated, considering the penguin placement. and isis is kinda a vanity vote now too, sooo... where you at?

[Bridgeburners]

i've said what i wanted to say in my (our) defense, i strongly believe it should be rather easy to come to a town!read on us *despite* what you call scummy posting

Ico, it would kinda help if you responded to my posts and give me something to work with

~ skitter

[Bridgeburners]

Daaaaaaaaaats i need help with ico

Ok and?

What did you think he was going to say?

Wanted to get an outside check on whether or not i should be concerned by ico's recent posting

[Bridgeburners]

Like, the fact that he's talking about peta + skitter as scum does show that he's either missing pieces of game state or not explaining some far-out theory but I don't see why missing a piece of game state like that would be scum-indicative.

That wasnt inherently my problem

My problem is that he's trying to handwave gypyx's posting in different ways as he reads on and it becomes apparent that people scumread it

First by saying its not really bad
Than by acknowledging its bad but does that inherently mean we should scumread him?
Then saying that even if its scummy the towniness of the associative with shirou shohld handwave it

He's not engaging, and he's using the associative as a get-out-of-jail card even tho his slot's posting is bad and even tho that doesnt inherently clear him

[Bridgeburners]

Also now that panic room is over: i think infinity is townie for him

[implosion]

Warning that this post is very rambly.

It's hard for me to make a read list now bc my opinions are more in flux than they were on d1, but something like.

Spoiler:

Infinity, Something_Smart (town that I feel good about calling town)

petapan (I think on his play alone he'd be in my PoE at this point; still think Scipio displayed fairly strong town; possibly at the point where I should re-evaluate and actually the more that I think about it I am actually going to look into him some shortly so maybe this will change in like two posts)

Secret Hydra including associatives (basically, where I place them if hunting specifically for groupscum, or maybe just above peta but some of the recent points do have some merit and I didn't like their d1 play though it's not fresh in my head)

Datisi, Schiavetto (both of these need asterisks; Datisi because it's mostly a tonal read but one that I still feel kind of strongly about even with the apathy stuff but if someone else has superseding meta then *shrug*, Schiavetto because this is where my read of him would be like a week ago, around when he stopped posting anything nontrivial)

Bridgeburners (falling somewhat as of late), Isis (I have a hard time really explaining the things from her that seemed townie earlier in a way that is satisfying enough for me to still believe them)

Not_Mafia (probably not scum with penguin, I strongly do not buy any of the reasons I've heard for calling him town), Secret Hydra not including associatives (though I have a lot of trouble placing them here or higher and the recent sort of consensus on them makes me feel more iffy on them being scum. )

Penguin

The reason I spoiler this is because just the act of writing this out has made me realize there are a lot of things I need to do with some immediacy; mostly taking a closer look at peta and Isis.

In a world where it's 2 scum + SK I certainly could be right about everything that I currently feel in my heart of hearts (namely everyone but N_M and Penguin being town). I still do not feel good about this because, well, odds are still 3 scum and I don't buy the vague game-vibes that say it's actually 2, and it's not like I feel good about those two being scum. Also everyone disagreeing on penguin means I'm probably wrong. But I still think his play, more and more recently, is disparate from how I remember his town game being. I cannot for the life of me find the post that I swear skitter made about his play being more pot-shotty as one alignment but it feels very pot-shotty in a scummy way lately, in the sense that he's giving one random inkling of something at a time. The weird comment about S_S being either high confidence town or high confidence scum, randomly joining the sechyd wagon apparently literally because he just wasn't counting votes, idk.

Also I'm kind of just realizing that it was a mistake to join a possibly-multifaction game. but well I guess it's too late for that.

[implosion]

Oh yeah I forgot peta's early day today was also townish.

[Infinity 324]

I went to look to see who infinity was voting so I could sheep a townie but I guess it's also implosion so.

Isis I'm already pocketed you don't have to do this

[Something_Smart]

maybe these latest posts were actually scumconeum meta to a t and i'm the only one with the knowledge to know that. you don't know.

but even if, it's not like you just wouldn't say anything about it unless asked...

[implosion]

In a way the fact that peta hasn't actually reckoned with his read on me should be troubling? I guess he's not really being shy about it since he did mention it two days ago explicitly and if he's town it kind of makes sense that he's had higher priority stuff to care about all day with bridge and sechyd. It is kind of a believable thing as scum if I try to think of how petapan-scum would try to interact with me in the context of this game, in that world I'm probably a weird unknown since I haven't played in forever and so it might make sense for him to just not want to deal with calling me either way. Although it'd be just as easy for him to just call me town in his crusade against all of the reasons people have scumread me...... which is a weird thing to say on its own but like it's basically what he's done

[petapan]

SKs kick ass, tbh. sad to see they have fallen out of favor in the time i was away

[petapan]

In a way the fact that peta hasn't actually reckoned with his read on me should be troubling? I guess he's not really being shy about it since he did mention it two days ago explicitly and if he's town it kind of makes sense that he's had higher priority stuff to care about all day with bridge and sechyd. It is kind of a believable thing as scum if I try to think of how petapan-scum would try to interact with me in the context of this game, in that world I'm probably a weird unknown since I haven't played in forever and so it might make sense for him to just not want to deal with calling me either way. Although it'd be just as easy for him to just call me town in his crusade against all of the reasons people have scumread me...... which is a weird thing to say on its own but like it's basically what he's done

it's actually because i didn't know how to read you but didn't want to yeet you day 1 without good reason. now, though, well...less sure of that

[implosion]

I also have so many conflicting thoughts on skitter right now. Her voting patterns I said earlier seem absurd as scum and I kind of want to do a somewhat-effortful meta of her to see how she does this kind of wild vote hopping. I generally think vote hopping in a carefree way is usually town indicative and I still think in isolation her votes on peta and I think it was Datisi are town-indicative. The sechyd vote just gives me pause because at some point it feels like leaning into it. I think thinking about this more I'm probably wrong about that and she is just town.

[implosion]

less sure that you don't know how to read me or less sure that you don't want to yeet me day 1 without good reason

[implosion]

SKs kick ass, tbh. sad to see they have fallen out of favor in the time i was away

also i am probably literally responsible for this to a large degree

[petapan]

let me be over the top if i want to goddammit

ok but here's the thing, peta: it looked f a k e a s f u c k to me. like did it think that i might have been wrong? yeah sure wouldn't be the first nor the last time. but infinity was on zero votes. he wasn't on e-1, or n_m's e-1, he was on zero votes. what does it matter. why would i not vote there. we can sit here and argue, but like you're not gonna convince me that my infinity suspicion was bad because you happen to not see how one gets that read?

lol lemme tell you a secret, i'm also not sure what i'm doing. though i feel like that is decently false, like i'm obv town on ico, i'm trending town on infinity, i said implo's reads kinda don't make sense as scum, i said you/skit is prob t/t, like? read. also like lol what can i tell you. that's what happens when day 1 is 40 pages and 7 days longer than it needed to be, and also everyone left alive in the game has some sorta reasons to be townie.

i mean, like, if something sticks out to me i'm gonna question it, not about trying to convince you on this but to interrogate your thinking because i wasn't sure it was real. it's not about it being bad but not thinking it was a believable response, although, putting it as "it looked fake to me" is more plausible. probably shouldn't chew this over any more but i felt like picking at it because i was concerned

but, well, "game hard and i don't know what to do" is at least something understandable! i probably could have just asked for your reads rather than taking this approach, w/e

[petapan]

less sure that you don't know how to read me or less sure that you don't want to yeet me day 1 without good reason

less sure that i should be standing in the way of you getting yeeted, i wrote that poorly

SKs kick ass, tbh. sad to see they have fallen out of favor in the time i was away

also i am probably literally responsible for this to a large degree

now i will yeet you

[petapan]

actually i don't know why i'm couching it in ambiguity you're probably my number 2 vote after secret hydra repeatedly put their foot in their mouth