Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[RLotus]

I had the same thought as you guys about BM, that he is probably town if Italiano flips town.

The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.

i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?

After reading back through that interaction though, this quote makes me not want to write off BM/Momrangal just yet. It seems like he thought Italiano was getting a lot of townreads, so if he is scum it makes sense that he would hard defend Italiano there.

[Andresvmb]

If I’m going wrong on Green Crayons, I believe this to be the reasonable alternative. I spent a little bit of time re-reading Duchess, and something didn’t seem to add up to me. They were highly critical of Italiano in 90, which they re-affirmed in 223, but then seemed intent on burying Green Crayons for their questioning there shortly thereafter (which we all know and I won’t rehash). I also expressed a lot of skepticism of how RLotus seemed to be pushing VPB (1170). I maybe didn’t pay enough attention to Duchess’ arguments against VPB in 1022, 1025, and 1026, which seem to borrow a lot from them.

For example, RLotus argues that VPB’s reads are rather non-committal in 869. In that last string of posts I quoted, Duchess makes the argument that VPB has been consistently sitting on the fence and is “leaving every door and window open”.

Cookie Monster in their latest reads list has {Elements, VPB, Datisi} as Scum. I seriously doubt this is anywhere near correct. I have had my share of doubts, but I do think Datisi and VPB are simply trying to figure out the game. Interestingly enough, from looking back, Elements had a really good view of the game in 1451, provided you make a few assumptions. I do really think Duchess v. Green Crayons was SvT. And perhaps Green Crayons was just getting annoyed at me for pushing them in the way that I did.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, I have also spent some time thinking about Dunn. I really don’t think it’s going to flip Scum, and it’s mainly because of the players that were willing to compromise and vote there. And I haven’t found an individual post of Dunn’s I actually scum read. Most of the arguments against Dunn are situational, or from their lack of thread presence. Well, why aren’t we pushing Cookie Monster for those things then?

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, I’m getting a bit tired of these arguments around my “aggression”, or how my play has been “puzzling”. Unless you’ve played more than 5 games with me, I don’t care for your meta on how I play Town.

[Green Crayons]

Something to keep in mind is that GC would be locked into claiming neighborizer today since he targeted Datisi already.

idgi

[Green Crayons]

Suddenly then the uninformed majority becomes much closer to being informed.

That's not how neighborhoods work

are you and Andres reading from a script or?

[Green Crayons]

FYI what i'm referencing

it's like a masonhood where you have to actually work for it.

I’m sorry, what? No. A Neighborhood is most certainly not a masonhood. This is absurd. Unless your accuracy is 100%, your “perfectly curated Town block” is not better than anybody else’s unless proven otherwise. And I’m far from convinced you are even Town, let alone trustworthy enough to establish a Town core.

[Green Crayons]

If I’m going wrong on Green Crayons, I believe this to be the reasonable alternative. I spent a little bit of time re-reading Duchess, and something didn’t seem to add up to me. They were highly critical of Italiano in 90, which they re-affirmed in 223, but then seemed intent on burying Green Crayons for their questioning there shortly thereafter (which we all know and I won’t rehash). I also expressed a lot of skepticism of how RLotus seemed to be pushing VPB (1170). I maybe didn’t pay enough attention to Duchess’ arguments against VPB in 1022, 1025, and 1026, which seem to borrow a lot from them.

For example, RLotus argues that VPB’s reads are rather non-committal in 869. In that last string of posts I quoted, Duchess makes the argument that VPB has been consistently sitting on the fence and is “leaving every door and window open”.

Cookie Monster in their latest reads list has {Elements, VPB, Datisi} as Scum. I seriously doubt this is anywhere near correct. I have had my share of doubts, but I do think Datisi and VPB are simply trying to figure out the game. Interestingly enough, from looking back, Elements had a really good view of the game in 1451, provided you make a few assumptions. I do really think Duchess v. Green Crayons was SvT. And perhaps Green Crayons was just getting annoyed at me for pushing them in the way that I did.

let's gooooo

VOTE: Cookie Monster

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

I may be down for a cookie monster or midway yeet today. I want to take a min to review my fight with duchess once more and reevaluate how I feel about that with some distance.

[maxwell]

I don't have strong opinions on cookie monsters content, I can only point to the ISOs from their two previous games:

viewtopic.php?t=85805&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=85799&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

and say they appear to be a troll/gimmick account doing a bit where they barely post any useful content and prodge by making posts about work, I think there's decent probability that slot flips town but needs to be policied anyway because they are never ever going to contribute anything useful toward the game

[Datisi]

Anyway, I have also spent some time thinking about Dunn. I really don’t think it’s going to flip Scum, and it’s mainly because of the players that were willing to compromise and vote there. And I haven’t found an individual post of Dunn’s I actually scum read. Most of the arguments against Dunn are situational, or from their lack of thread presence. Well, why aren’t we pushing Cookie Monster for those things then?

can you spell out who are those players that are willing to compromise on dunn that make you think he's town?

and it's not pure lack of thread presence. it's the timing of the presence. if someone if lurking, fine, maybe slightly more likely to be scum, i already said that just lurking isn't outside of dunn town meta. but when you pop up after days of not posting to a wagon that is all but guaranteed to go through, that you "defended" earlier but didn't try to convince anyone, to vote someone else and again disappear? then later claim you thought maybe they'd be reevaluating even tho the player literally said they'd be self-hammering? and just by looking at day 2, do you really feel like dunn is trying to solve this game?

Anyway, I’m getting a bit tired of these arguments around my “aggression”, or how my play has been “puzzling”. Unless you’ve played more than 5 games with me, I don’t care for your meta on how I play Town.

saying that you entering the day screaming how there's scum on the wagon, then voting just the people off the wagon is puzzling isn't meta.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

I may be down for a cookie monster or midway yeet today. I want to take a min to review my fight with duchess once more and reevaluate how I feel about that with some distance.

if this is the result of the meta reeval or whatever, i'd love to hear it.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

I may be down for a cookie monster or midway yeet today. I want to take a min to review my fight with duchess once more and reevaluate how I feel about that with some distance.

if this is the result of the meta reeval or whatever, i'd love to hear it.

No no. I've been thinking about midway since my analysis on that wagon. I won't have time to look at Dunn meta until later today probably (though meta is meh-ta)

[Datisi]

ah, gotcha. i just kinda assumed since it was just an unvote and not a different vote, you feel.

[VP Baltar]

ah, gotcha. i just kinda assumed since it was just an unvote and not a different vote, you feel.

It's basically a *thinking* unvote

[Andresvmb]

can you spell out who are those players that are willing to compromise on dunn that make you think he's town?

Since I’m also landing on {VPB, You} Town, and I’m trusting RTP’s read of midwaybear for now, that leaves {RLotus, maxwell}. maxwell expressed a willingness to vote Dunn while criticizing their vote for Green Crayons, and RLotus voted there early today.

[Andresvmb]

and just by looking at day 2, do you really feel like dunn is trying to solve this game?

I find Cookie Monster a much worse offender in this regard than Dunn today.

[VP Baltar]

and just by looking at day 2, do you really feel like dunn is trying to solve this game?

I find Cookie Monster a much worse offender in this regard than Dunn today.

Are you looking into maxwell's counter point about cookie meta?

[OutWorldER]

Elements has requested replacement

[maxwell]

I hate it here.

[Momrangal]

Coming back to this game tomorrow. Promise

[maxwell]

Anyway, I want to clarify that my post on cookie monster isn't intended to be clearing, just that you should not expect anything useful from the slot, ever.

I want to just try to play the game forward from rather than backreading but I might have to anyway since I still don't have much of a clue.

[Datisi]

v/la ~24 hours.

just managed to single-handedly lose town a game and my energy for mafia is sapped. please no yeet anyone while i'm gone ok thanks bye.

[VP Baltar]

This weekend is going to be rough times huh. I'll try to get some fresh fodder today.

Lotus, you around?

[VP Baltar]

Lotus, you around?

As in, could I get your take on the claim? You said andres is obvtown. What's your take on the neighborizer stuff? You agree with andres that GC is possibly scum coming off that? Different take?