Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[SirCakez]

oh one thing I disagree with is I actually thought bork's posting at end of day yesterday was better than anything else he'd posted all game

[Titus]

It is very unclear why you townread me Titus, originally Day 1 my being town was based off of it not being me/Cakez. You've already had one scum white knight you this game. I have yet to see you substantially tackle either my or mastina's end of our interactions.

The way you reached out to me and your frustration felt very town in the way you said that I can't defend you if you don't put out more. Second, I feel scum, like mastina, were better off whiteknighting me given my position of defeatism in the thread. They didn't want to all of defend me though due to losing the miselimination.

I usually don't read through EoD interactions. VCA is how I reflect and reread generally.

[penguin_alien]

Morning Vote Count 3.01

Morning 3 will end in (expired on 2021-03-17 23:54:27)

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to deliver

Primo Levi's Scarf

to a player.

Prism (4): Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade, SirCakez

Not voting (8): Tammy, borkjerfkin, Spiffeh, GreyICE, Prism, Dunnstral, Battle Mage, Bell

Mod notes:
2/60 pages used

[MathBlade]

It is very unclear why you townread me Titus, originally Day 1 my being town was based off of it not being me/Cakez. You've already had one scum white knight you this game. I have yet to see you substantially tackle either my or mastina's end of our interactions.

The way you reached out to me and your frustration felt very town in the way you said that I can't defend you if you don't put out more. Second, I feel scum, like mastina, were better off whiteknighting me given my position of defeatism in the thread. They didn't want to all of defend me though due to losing the miselimination.

I usually don't read through EoD interactions. VCA is how I reflect and reread generally.

Why are you still posting like your understanding is good, despite having factual proof LLD is a mason? Why instead are you not doing VCA to “reflect” and reread?

I am kinda feeling Titus/Bell/Spiffeh
Or
SirCakez/??/??

[Titus]

VLA and work is why I haven't gotten to it.

[MathBlade]

VLA and work is why I haven't gotten to it.

Then why continue to post despite having a bad base? That would poison people.

If your reads are knowingly bad why keep posting?

Your current answer to Prism reads like a “must respond now” and contradicts your earlier posts where you push Pooky. You’re very logically inconsistent.

Eg > Look on Cakez wagon for scum. Get told no.
> Look outside of if not on it.
> Mod flip confirms LLD as mason
> Hey I am going to post instead of VCA.

Actually Titus/SirCakez/Bell does fit but I think that might be more man I hope all three are scum

[Titus]

I can reset in thread. I do what I can, when I can.

How does my post contradict where I push Pooky? I specifically haven't pushed Pooky heavily today at all either.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: LLD

@Math, That wagon analysis (it's not a full vca) was relatively spot on. mastina is confscum.
Dunn being scum requires mastina and Dunn double up on the Cakez wagon. I don't see why scum would do that given the options. Maybe if Cakez is town but it's just unlikely behavior from scum.
KTT is conftown because they are dead.
LLD is conftown to most. I don't fully trust them but they are highly likely town.
I know I am town.
You I lean towards being an anti town townie.

That leaves Pooky.


Can you vote LLD so we can get to the afternoon?

Here’s one example. They’re all over when you try to get me to stop reading LLD as a mason lmao.

[MathBlade]

Now fmpov scum has to be in you/Cakez/Dunn.

That’s a tiny subset. We can only elim one scum at a time.

My plan is to see who wants you, who wants Cakez, and who wants Dunn.

If you’re town I strongly recommend you VCA and find scum in Cakez/Dunn.

[Titus]

From my PoV, scum can be Pooky as well. Just because LLD is a mason doesn't mean Pooky is. You continue to noisily tunnel that perspective and refuse to consider any chance you are wrong. That's doubly concerning given Pooky's position as a possible attempt to swing the wagon to SirCakez.

Dunn is most likely not scum, but I intend to verify that mastina and Dunn were the first two votes on the Cakez wagon. The first two votes being on Cakez both being scum is an overload and unlikely. If Dunn is scum and I am wrong, Cakez almost certainly is not. Cakez and Dunn are not SvS.

Cakez and Dunn are both very likely town. If Cakez is scum, his wagon is likely pure with the exception of Pooky and we're looking at scum on the back end of the mastina wagon.

Who is scum on the mastina wagon in both Cakez scum and Cakez town worlds?

[Titus]

Cakez scum would suggest scum in bork or bell. Sangres, the decider, wasn't scum. Spiffeh's hammer is null because he'd have to hammer anything but I lean town on Spiffeh because mastina was scum and he could have lurked out. That means looking towards the people who made mastina an option. Bell and bork.

However, if Cakez is town, then bork and bell are likely town as well. The Cakez wagon would have scum, which leads me towards you/Pooky by PoE.

[MathBlade]

There you go again,

You said you need to do a reset yet are still publishing opinions. You have literally been proven wrong yet have changed nothing.

Maybe I am third mason that’s why I don’t wanna scumread Pooky and our reads are in sync on Cakez.

Maybe I am not third mason and just a stubborn VT providing mason cover.

The point is there are too many signals to ignore and I haven’t been wrong on a PR read yet this game.

If Pooky is not a mason it’s possible Pooky is scum of course. But really only you and SirCakez and one other player I don’t remember who ever made Pooky a thing.

If you’re going to insist Cakez and Dunn are town I give 0 fucks and will tunnel you to kingdom come because you v likely mason = elim you.

For your other question, I don’t do that until Cakez flips and why. If it’s a elim there’s more to go off of.

Again if we don’t focus on Titus/Cakez/Dunn/me (barf) I would want to know why.

[Titus]

You asked for my opinions prior to my reset and you're simultaneously complaining that I am giving them.

You also dodged the question about who is scum on the mastina wagon. That's very much an agenda. Your reads being in sync on Cakez is not a reason, by itself, to townread anyone.

You're trying to deter me from townreading both Cakez and Dunn or threatening to eliminate me because you don't like my opinion. That's an agenda.

You're pushing agendas rather than scumhunting.

You're not asking why mastina went through over SirCakez. You're supposing the answer and insisting on a result from that assumption. You're assuming Pooky is town and trying to force that assumption on the rest of us, despite assuming Pooky scum making more sense in your narrative.

You're one of the swing votes attempting to push the wagon from mastina to SirCakez. Yet, you've done zero reanalysis since mastina flipped scum.

You have an agenda here. You're refusing anything outside of it. That's forcing a reset on your slot.

[Battle Mage]

urgh I have a lot of thoughts and can't organize them
that wagon had a weird ending but we know it was town driven at the tail end!!!
I want a lot more pressure on BM today. He totally skated by yesterday. Titus still looks scummy especially in light of DGB town flip as you could argue DGB was a counter to Titus.

VOTE: prism
This is fine with me for artifact

you're joking with me right? I was on the scum elim Day 1, was not on the town elim Day 2...and I'm the first name on your list? Back to basics.

[Battle Mage]

FWIW Math, I'd be interested in a Titus or SirCakez flip today, but probably Titus more. I think Titus-scum is smart enough to know that playing off Mathblade is a good way to post lots without really furthering anything or getting a lot of scrutiny. And I trust Titus to read me better than SirCakez would, so Titus looking for a cheap mis-elim on me yesterday looked worse. But I'd be fine with either. Yesterday didn't split the pack much, as the DGB elim was almost unanimous somehow...

[Battle Mage]

I'll abstain on the artefact vote for now as I don't really have a strong townread to give it to.

[MathBlade]

You asked for my opinions prior to my reset and you're simultaneously complaining that I am giving them.

You also dodged the question about who is scum on the mastina wagon. That's very much an agenda. Your reads being in sync on Cakez is not a reason, by itself, to townread anyone.

You're trying to deter me from townreading both Cakez and Dunn or threatening to eliminate me because you don't like my opinion. That's an agenda.

You're pushing agendas rather than scumhunting.

You're not asking why mastina went through over SirCakez. You're supposing the answer and insisting on a result from that assumption. You're assuming Pooky is town and trying to force that assumption on the rest of us, despite assuming Pooky scum making more sense in your narrative.

You're one of the swing votes attempting to push the wagon from mastina to SirCakez. Yet, you've done zero reanalysis since mastina flipped scum.

You have an agenda here. You're refusing anything outside of it. That's forcing a reset on your slot.

I asked for your opinions yes, but I want them when they are useful meaning when you have done that VCA.

I did not dodge the question. There’s not enough to begin to answer it. If there even if scum on it at all. I did answer the question just not in a way you find satisfactory and in a way that lets you push off of that tiny PoE.

Lmao having a PoE is now an agenda. You’re literally saying that because my PoE is you Cakez and Dunn has to contain at least one scum I have an agenda. I guess you can call eliminating scum an agenda *shrug*

Correct. I am not asking why Mastina went through over SirCakez because that answer is dependent upon his alignment as to how many and therefore who. If SirCakez is town, then scum failed to save their buddy. So scum are in (you,Dunn).
If SirCakez is scum, then definitionally there is scum on the Cakez wagon. If Cakez is scum then we had split wagons then it’s more likely that scum are split two on Mastina one on Cakez wagon. Could be more or less either way, but man what I wouldn’t give for a cop on Cakez.

Where am I assuming a result exactly? And yes I am assuming Pooky is a mason. Anyone pushing him will feel the full and brutal weight of a me tunnel. If you’re that sure Pooky is scum you’d be willing to fight me and the other mason. You lose.

Then we end up back where I said we would be 1000 posts ago.

Pedit: The 100% smarter elim is Cakez here as Cakez didn’t announce results IIRC.

[MathBlade]

But if Titus is adamantly refusing to actually let me hunt in my PoE and figure out what the fuck is up with Cakez today I can and will tunnel her into oblivion if she’s going to continue to be an antitown player who doesn’t reset. I do not have the spoons to figure out if it is malicious.

[Battle Mage]

im feeling slightly more turned on today, i might even re-read some

[Titus]

FWIW Math, I'd be interested in a Titus or SirCakez flip today, but probably Titus more. I think Titus-scum is smart enough to know that playing off Mathblade is a good way to post lots without really furthering anything or getting a lot of scrutiny. And I trust Titus to read me better than SirCakez would, so Titus looking for a cheap mis-elim on me yesterday looked worse. But I'd be fine with either. Yesterday didn't split the pack much, as the DGB elim was almost unanimous somehow...

This post gets several things wrong

1) DGB elimination was not near unanimous. There was a counter on me.

2) I have, and continue to get, scrutiny for pushing back on Math. My goal is not to avoid scrutiny but to stop an agenda that almost certainly leads to eliminations on townreads.

3) Characterizing my push on DGB as a cheap miselimination search is wrong. I had a theory that I wanted to test.

On another note, how can you have zero townreads?

[Titus]

But if Titus is adamantly refusing to actually let me hunt in my PoE and figure out what the fuck is up with Cakez today I can and will tunnel her into oblivion if she’s going to continue to be an antitown player who doesn’t reset. I do not have the spoons to figure out if it is malicious.

You can hunt in your PoE. No one is stopping you. I just won't say that I think your PoE has any merit whatsoever. Your PoE for today consists entirely of a counterwagon to flipped scum while insisting that the target of the counterwagon is scum. It's nonsense that I want no part of. You're perfectly free to work around me though. Continuing to ask me the same questions and using that as an excuse to a) not hunt at all on the mastina wagon and b) claim that you are unable to hunt in your PoE is utter antitown garbage.

If I am that much of a nuisance, stop talking to me and hunt.

[MathBlade]

But if Titus is adamantly refusing to actually let me hunt in my PoE and figure out what the fuck is up with Cakez today I can and will tunnel her into oblivion if she’s going to continue to be an antitown player who doesn’t reset. I do not have the spoons to figure out if it is malicious.

You can hunt in your PoE. No one is stopping you. I just won't say that I think your PoE has any merit whatsoever. Your PoE for today consists entirely of a counterwagon to flipped scum while insisting that the target of the counterwagon is scum. It's nonsense that I want no part of. You're perfectly free to work around me though. Continuing to ask me the same questions and using that as an excuse to a) not hunt at all on the mastina wagon and b) claim that you are unable to hunt in your PoE is utter antitown garbage.

If I am that much of a nuisance, stop talking to me and hunt.

1) Correct. I don’t hunt where there’s no evidence of scum even existing. Scum almost certainly do not all bus scum without a damn fine reason. No one is providing that reason. Therefore there is almost certainly scum in you/Cakez/Dunn. I am not saying it is exclusively Cakez but it would be a damn good reason to know why he isn’t sharing his results today. Instead you complain I have a PoE.

I am not talking with you, I am telling you to get with the program and reset here.

Anyone not following that PoE is being incredibly antitown.

Cakez puts his result now and who he checked so we can figure out why he checked who he checked and sort him that way and see if it was a good check and why. Then based on sorting Cakez if Cakez is scum we elim him and if Cakez is town we go for you or Dunn.

[Titus]

If SirCakez is town, then scum failed to save their buddy. So scum are in (you,Dunn).
If SirCakez is scum, then definitionally there is scum on the Cakez wagon.

If SirCakez is town, Dunn's vote did nothing to save his wagon. Dunn's vote predated the mastina wagon mostly and thus could not be a vote to save SirCakez.

Me, based solely on VCA, is fair. So is Pooky by that standard. So are you as the last vote.

If SirCakez is scum, then the wagon on SirCakez likely does not contain bussers given his PR claim and the counter onto mastina. If SirCakez is scum, he's clearly the more valuable and it makes sense to search off wagon.

Searching off wagon makes little sense though given the play of most of the mastina wagon.


Hero Solve: Math, Pooky, Battle Mage

[MathBlade]

If SirCakez is town >> Dunn started the wagon. If Dunn is scum, Need to look at why to see if it was just stale or if he tried to start a counter wagon. If stale he had no where to hop to thus making it more likely Mastina was elimmed. I don’t think Dunn is scum but your VCA is bad.

You and me in the PoE again based on VCA is fair. Pooky is not due to being LLD’s mason. No one in their right mind would do so.

If Cakez is scum then yes, likely no other bussers and you’re derp town and the rest of the wagon is clear except maybe one. Like I said above.

If Cakez is town you’re almost certainly scum here. Probably with Battle Mage if I am right and town!Cakez checked Battle Mage. But gay theories.

Your “hero” solve is crap.

You don’t want to hunt in the PoE despite your hero solve having 2/3rds in that PoE.

Please for ducks sake reset Titus.

[MathBlade]

Wow I am sorry autocorrect for some reason made those are into gay* I completely apologize and mean no offense