Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[OutWorldER]

Official Vote Count 3.01

Canalside, Buffalo, New York

---

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.


Momrangal (2): maxwell, Andresvmb
Datisi (1): RLotus
RLotus (1): Datisi

Not Voting

(5): Green Crayons, Andresvmb, DrippingGoofball, VP Baltar, Dunnstral,

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-03-31 19:39:15).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi DGB! You want to chat today? I'd be interested in some of your takes.

Really

My scumdar is a disgrace

You sure?

I can entertain you if you have a specific question.

[VP Baltar]

Hi DGB! You want to chat today? I'd be interested in some of your takes.

Really

My scumdar is a disgrace

You sure?

I can entertain you if you have a specific question.

It's cool, so is mine!

What are your thoughts on this discussion about Datisi or me being scum?

Do you think it is weird you were in the neighborize pool?

Who are your top three scum butts?

[Momrangal]

Dbg why are you so woe is me?

[Momrangal]

VOTE: andres

I would rather go after actual scum reads but I have zero qualms.

Why are we rushing? When's deadline?

Also dbg is town which is fantastic

Her entrance.

Dbg has an agenda while scum and it gets pretty obvious pretty quickly

VOTE: midway
Andre's is the most difficult to really explain at the moment but alot of it has to do the with the way he is pushing slots, and how he is making his reads. I find it extremely unlikely that you claim neighborized the way you did. As a scum neighbor, what is generally the bigger priority is to pocket the said neighbors. I feel like, if you were going to pocket green, you would have claimed to be neighborized sooner way before he was pressured to out who he neighborized.

Dunn is also largely tone. The pushes on him are also pretty shitty and, as scum I think there would be far more resistance to his push and it really isn't there. Dunn is someone who is easy to eliminate as town because of his personality. I really liked the way he knocked he down a peg without discrediting me. The sarcasm he presents in his posts and the way he approaches the game all ring genuine. He isn't pushing anyone in bad faith, his points and arguments are solid, valid and all looks like they are coming from a town perspective

Just look at this sequence.

Why are you pulling this out in vaccum and totally ignoring the fact that one of my town reads asked me to vote someone who was at the bottom of my PoE pool?

I mean I didn't even realize it was the hammer but that doesn't matter. What does is the fact that all your pushes aren't taking the whole scenario into consideration

[DrippingGoofball]

Do you think it is weird you were in the neighborize pool?

Pity choice?

[DrippingGoofball]

Dbg why are you so woe is me?

Look at my posts sitewide.

[Datisi]

re lotus' 2652:

- what does "hook people into answering questions" even mean? like i demand answers to q's i have in my town games i'm p sure?

- this again is just a mark of how i play. you're rarely gonna see me on the forefront of any push and that's just how it is. i have reads, accusing me of not having them is nonsensical, especially considering you were a strong proponent of "datisi is solving". i play this game by establishing a townblocc and working with it. also, yes, i waited until rtp voted italiano, because guess what? time was running out and we needed a wagon. i'm not gonna start a fresh wagon on italiano if there's no chance of it succeeding. but an influential person i'm townreading is voting there? yeah i'm gonna vote there.

- i mean you're not gonna convince me my own reasoning was weak but my question was why didn't you call it out yesterday if it's so obviously scummy?

- lol are you purposefully trying to twist my reads???
- like what i said was "assume baltar/dunn aren't s/s. baltar's been pushing dunn, then he backed off him, and gave him an obvious hint as to how to appear more town to him. dunn did not do what baltar told him to do. that implies dunn doesn't actually care to look good, which is a trait more often seen in town."
- and what you're spitting at me is "suddenly dunn is town for lurking"

- also again. the aftermath from baltar changing his mind on dunn is what made me rethink too. like ooh it was after baltar changed his mind. yeah exactly lol

re 2654:

- maybe don't make trash pushes? also you obviously don't think omgusing is scum!indicative since you're not pushing anyone else on that list (and one of them flipped town) so is there a point to this post other than throwing shade?

- i mean "my top 4 town were off midway" literally just false lol? every time you started talking about your townreads, you always went in order of andres, me/baltar (1985, 2366) and at the time you gave justification for voting dunn, both me and baltar were on midway??
- also i'm saying it's weak bc in a later post (2481) you tried to justify staying on your dunn wagon but your argument of "scum on wagon" was kinda falling apart?

- don't put words in my mouth i'm not saying it should be ignored. (if you wanna ask, i don't want to boggle my mind with on-wagon off-wagon nonsense bc again i literally just got burned like that bc of a day-1 all-town misyeet wagon and would rather look at the motivation behind the votes.) what i was *actually* saying there that i was getting vague feelings you/andre might be partnered because this feels very much coordinated and if it you manage to convince the town there's 1 scum in two of us, and we're both town, it's game winning for you (tbf that's probably not what's going on, esp as andres is voting mom but it crossed my mind)

re 2656: ah yes because a quick readslist to give the game a sense of where i am rn is the epitome of substance and scumhunting

[DrippingGoofball]

Who are your top three scum butts?

Green Crayons? Momrangal?

[Datisi]

ah yes the scumteam is green/datisi/momrangal and we are faking a hood because *checks notes* neighbourizers are like basically ic masons and nobody would ever yeet a neighbourizer and this gambit doesn't out the whole scumteam if green dies at all fuck guys they got us

@dunn

: 2313 from yesterday please

@andre

: how does your momrangal vote align with the fact you seem to be dead certain betting the game on scum in me/vpb

also i should probably explain my thought process on the three picks:
- baltar is the obvious one, i'm still decently town on him, i also had some weird notion that on the off chance he's pocketing me, i could more easily notice than in the hood, and also figured it would be the most fun option
- momrangal is a slot that like, started off really great w battle mage, but keeps falling off and their reads aren't explained that well, and i know battle mage's scumgame is allegedly not utter trash (like jungle oligarchy probably ain't the peak of it) so i thought it would be a good choice for Actual Sorting
- dgb i thought if green picked it, it would get motivated to actually contribute more and talk to us

like idk why andres thinks he's the Most Logical choice but i didn't really consider him at all bc i just don't feel like getting him into the hood would make him more readable to me, and he seems to spew his thoughts into the main thread one way or another, so

(I'm not actually sure if it's datisi but if GC is town then that becomes more likely with the way they were tag team pushing me from their hood yesterday)

hi what are your reads
you seemed to be town on me yesterday

Do you think it is weird you were in the neighborize pool?

Pity choice?

dgb i know the feel of not wanting to play mafia
is there a way to help you out here? can you talk about green/mom?

@momrangal

: can you answer 2722?

[DrippingGoofball]

neighbourizers

Neighbors = / = masons

[DrippingGoofball]

can you talk about green/mom?

They read scum to me, that's all.

[VP Baltar]

I'm less confident GC is town here. Maybe I'm crazy. Also, I just badly want Datisi to be town and I'm having a hard time with that.

[RLotus]

- what does "hook people into answering questions" even mean? like i demand answers to q's i have in my town games i'm p sure?

Not in the games I looked at

i have reads, accusing me of not having them is nonsensical, especially considering you were a strong proponent of "datisi is solving".

I didn't say you don't have reads a I said you aren't pushing them. Playing the background and following town like that is scummy especially when you are a part of the 2 mislims and the RTP wagon and the Cookie Monster wagon.

i'm not gonna start a fresh wagon on italiano if there's no chance of it succeeding. but an influential person i'm townreading is voting there? yeah i'm gonna vote there.

That one instance in solitary isn't scummy, but rather it is scummy that most of your votes this game have been like that.

- like what i said was "assume baltar/dunn aren't s/s. baltar's been pushing dunn, then he backed off him, and gave him an obvious hint as to how to appear more town to him. dunn did not do what baltar told him to do. that implies dunn doesn't actually care to look good, which is a trait more often seen in town."
- and what you're spitting at me is "suddenly dunn is town for lurking"

Dunn has been lurking all game. VPB has been calling him scum for lurking all game. It has been pretty obvious that what Dunn should do to make VPB town read him is to stop lurking. Why is it just after VPB started to back off Dunn that you begin to call Dunn town for this? You see how the logic from you doesn't flow here?

- also again. the aftermath from baltar changing his mind on dunn is what made me rethink too. like ooh it was after baltar changed his mind. yeah exactly lol

Ok well it is scummy. Especially since you have been mimicking VPB for a large portion of the game.

- maybe don't make trash pushes? also you obviously don't think omgusing is scum!indicative since you're not pushing anyone else on that list (and one of them flipped town) so is there a point to this post other than throwing shade?

My push on you isn't trash, it is the natural place to look. Your position and VPB's position are scummy based on the flips. The fact that you think my push on you is trash and that you aren't questioning your read on VPB makes you look even more scummy. You don't have a reason to think I am scum other than the fact that I am pushing you (a towny place to push), that is why your vote on me is bad.

Also I am just obvtown at this point

re 2656: ah yes because a quick readslist to give the game a sense of where i am rn is the epitome of substance and scumhunting

You have been giving similar reads to this before

[Datisi]

- what does "hook people into answering questions" even mean? like i demand answers to q's i have in my town games i'm p sure?

Not in the games I looked at

well gee, what games *did* you look at then?

i have reads, accusing me of not having them is nonsensical, especially considering you were a strong proponent of "datisi is solving".

I didn't say you don't have reads a I said you aren't pushing them. Playing the background and following town like that is scummy especially when you are a part of the 2 mislims and the RTP wagon and the Cookie Monster wagon.

again, that is literally. how i play town. build a blocc, work with it. also i never voted for cookie monster?

i'm not gonna start a fresh wagon on italiano if there's no chance of it succeeding. but an influential person i'm townreading is voting there? yeah i'm gonna vote there.

That one instance in solitary isn't scummy, but rather it is scummy that most of your votes this game have been like that.

refer to the above. you're calling me scum for my playstyle.

- like what i said was "assume baltar/dunn aren't s/s. baltar's been pushing dunn, then he backed off him, and gave him an obvious hint as to how to appear more town to him. dunn did not do what baltar told him to do. that implies dunn doesn't actually care to look good, which is a trait more often seen in town."
- and what you're spitting at me is "suddenly dunn is town for lurking"

Dunn has been lurking all game. VPB has been calling him scum for lurking all game. It has been pretty obvious that what Dunn should do to make VPB town read him is to stop lurking. Why is it just after VPB started to back off Dunn that you begin to call Dunn town for this? You see how the logic from you doesn't flow here?

because the read wouldn't make sense otherwise. while baltar was scumreading dunn, dunn deciding to keep lurking could be either town who dgaf or scum who's trying to lay low / avoid interactions / whatever. but once baltar showed a sign of reevaluating, not a full townread, but back-off *thinking* unvote, now scum!dunn has incentive to try to get him to keep going down that path and actually start doing something. yet he doesn't. like my point is that scum!dunn is more likely to care about what he looks like and try to capitalize on baltar showing willingness to reevaluate, rather than do it earlier while he's showing no such feelings. that was my read.

- also again. the aftermath from baltar changing his mind on dunn is what made me rethink too. like ooh it was after baltar changed his mind. yeah exactly lol

Ok well it is scummy. Especially since you have been mimicking VPB for a large portion of the game.

no i think it was actually really townie.

- maybe don't make trash pushes? also you obviously don't think omgusing is scum!indicative since you're not pushing anyone else on that list (and one of them flipped town) so is there a point to this post other than throwing shade?

My push on you isn't trash, it is the natural place to look. Your position and VPB's position are scummy based on the flips. The fact that you think my push on you is trash and that you aren't questioning your read on VPB makes you look even more scummy. You don't have a reason to think I am scum other than the fact that I am pushing you (a towny place to push), that is why your vote on me is bad.

Also I am just obvtown at this point

m8 have you looked in the mirror? you've been screaming that italiano was scum on day 1, and midway was very much within your poe. also i'm questioning my read on baltar. and he keeps getting out town. he's putting in effort, his reactions seem natural and the way he played in the last game we were in, the way he was pushing the game yesterday to keep producing content is townie. idgaf about where he was on or off wagon if his thoughts are coming from a genuine place. like why should i be buying the pocketing stories here exactly? also my dude, your reasoning is like. bad. and you're very much not obvtown.

re 2656: ah yes because a quick readslist to give the game a sense of where i am rn is the epitome of substance and scumhunting

You have been giving similar reads to this before

i mean when i try to actually explain my reads (e.g. dunn) that's airy so what can you do

[Datisi]

neighbourizers

Neighbors = / = masons

i know, i was making fun of the "scumteam is faking the hood" claims with that part.

can you talk about green/mom?

They read scum to me, that's all.

that's a start. can you tell me why?

Also, I just badly want Datisi to be town and I'm having a hard time with that.

is there like, anything that you're finding actually scummy about my play or is it just ~*paranoia*~? what do you think about lotus' case?

[Andresvmb]

I have a bit of time right now actually so let me catch up real fast but then I’ll be out until tomorrow night.

[RLotus]

"It's not scummy that's just my playstyle." Ok.

m8 have you looked in the mirror? you've been screaming that italiano was scum on day 1, and midway was very much within your poe. also i'm questioning my read on baltar. and he keeps getting out town. he's putting in effort, his reactions seem natural and the way he played in the last game we were in, the way he was pushing the game yesterday to keep producing content is townie. idgaf about where he was on or off wagon if his thoughts are coming from a genuine place. like why should i be buying the pocketing stories here exactly? also my dude, your reasoning is like. bad. and you're very much not obvtown.

You're just wrong about this. You are blatantly scum so whatever

[Andresvmb]

And I generally TR the Elements/DGB slot.

I kind of flip flopped on elements a bit, and felt scum there for awhile. I have no clue on DGB. What are you seeing there?

Frankly I’m a bit torn. I think Elements was a mixed bag, and at different times I’ve felt the slot was Town and then I thought they could be Scum. DGB however is not really driving anything, and has mostly pushed emotional content out there that’s a bit manipulative. So I’m being careful there. Do I buy all of the self-pity? Mostly? They’re claiming it’s a site-wide thing, but that also means that it’s not AI necessarily. I’m going to end up making a decision there based on how the rest of the game shakes out.

[VP Baltar]

I haven't had time yet to line by line the lotus case and your responses. I plan to soon. Work has just been busy the last couple days and I chose to exercise this afternoon instead of mafiaing.

I don't think lotus is really scum here. I think he'd have zero reason to back off me yesterday, and he certainly could have had the upper hand on me today if he wanted to feed andres.

Maybe lotus is galaxy braining me, but seems like he had paths of lesser resistance if he was scum. If you're town though, I also get the OMGUS reax because of my own interaction when he was casing me.

Bigger picture, someone among the more active players must be scum. I don't believe all the scum are just lurking the fuck out of this game. So that's what I mean also when I say there has to be some WRONG here.

How do we feel about mass claim? I'm kind of hoping there is something to help, but not feeling like there is much behind the curtain this game.

Pedit: this post is in reply to Datisi

[Andresvmb]

Okay well Green Crayons is confirmed Town. The pick is so bad, it has to be Town. We can move on.

Scum neighborizet exist but what do I know.

You need to read my posts a bit more carefully. In this game, I was the most skeptical as it pertained to the Neighborizer claim. Have I not? What I’ve argued is that the choice for last night is so objectively bad, I can’t help but think it’s Town. We also have maxwell confirming that such an action took place, and multiple players in the Neighborhood still alive. So it’s obviously a thing. Too many players are a part of it to be a complete fabrication. It still means that it can be used as a tool for manipulation. I agree there. But given the choice of Momrangal, I would argue the odds it’s being used in that way are smaller. What do you think?

[RLotus]

Like Datisi, if you are town and you genuinely think VPB is town, you have to realize that you two are a big force in constantly pushing the game in the wrong direction. You should be looking at the people playing along with the two of you. Not me, who has been actively resisting your pushes. I hard defended RTP, Duchess, vocally opposed midway. The position you are taking is bad. Like, seriously?

This is why I just can not believe you have a solving mindset atm.

[Andresvmb]

Why are you pulling this out in vaccum and totally ignoring the fact that one of my town reads asked me to vote someone who was at the bottom of my PoE pool?

I mean I didn't even realize it was the hammer but that doesn't matter. What does is the fact that all your pushes aren't taking the whole scenario into consideration

I have really multiple problems with this post.

What am I leaving out? I asked you multiple times for the reasoning behind you SR me. The reasoning after your vote is the first time I can remember that you verbalized it. And it’s just so vague and nonsensical that it’s screams of bad faith. And do you just listen to whatever people tell you to do? Because that’s just a really bad way of covering a hammer for Town.

And how could you possibly not have known that it was a hammer? There is a post literally on the same page, two posts above yours, with the count. And you URGED caution in your previous post, saying there was no rush. So there was no rush, but you couldn’t be bothered to check how many votes there were on midway before placing it, even though it was right in front of your face?

[Andresvmb]

- i mean you're not gonna convince me my own reasoning was weak but my question was why didn't you call it out yesterday if it's so obviously scummy?

Datisi no offense but, I called out your reasoning as weak and pushed you on it multiple times yesterday, and you said “fuck preflip” basically and didn’t relent. No amount of arguing with you would have swayed you, in my experience.

[Andresvmb]

what i was *actually* saying there that i was getting vague feelings you/andre might be partnered because this feels very much coordinated and if it you manage to convince the town there's 1 scum in two of us, and we're both town, it's game winning for you (tbf that's probably not what's going on, esp as andres is voting mom but it crossed my mind)

This is bullshit though. You’re turning the argument RLotus and I actually agree on, and pushing it against us, when fundamentally, we’ve been on a lot of opposite sides of various arguments and you’ve been on the wrong one of them all. You can’t suggest two players are coordinated and Scum because they’ve agreed on a lot of things, and omit the fact that what they’ve been agreeing on is that a lot of the Town executions and flips that have occurred have been of Town. I understand White Knighting is a thing obviously, but just objectively any third party observer would tell you that there’s a much higher chance that one of {You, VPB} is Scum than in {Me, RLotus}. Do I think RLotus is absolutely assured of being Town? No, I don’t. But I’m Town. And I think it’s obvious honestly. And I have the same suspicions RLotus is describing. So I can see the Towny mindset, because it’s exactly mine.