DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[marry]

joqiza town

[VFP]

look i'm gonna be honest

i feel uncomfortable knighting for marry so hard and i think if she's town she will be able to demonstrate she's town on her own

i think she's just town who thought the mastina wagon was weird, tried to engage, engaged with LLD, realized what LLD was saying, then went "welp" and realized she was boutta look scummy af if mastina did end up being mafia

it's just my 2c

I would believe this more if Marry still didn't believe their town read.
Realising what LLD is saying would be a response of "Yeah mastina has a good chance as scum". Not "what i've said about mastina's reads list stands" just before voting there.

I get it probably just looks like a small petty reason, but it was a small reason that made me happy with mastina scum as well.
It's plausible I'm wrong, something just doesn't add with the responses.
Either Marry did cave in and just go along with LLD or Marry didn't change their read and went along with LLD.
I feel the vote would have more confidence if the second one. Even more so how Marry is being described.

[VFP]

This is the first reference to Marry pretending to be eavesdropper.

This is during the time Mastina was picking up votes based on the VC.
What is the scum purpose of this?
I agree just because they claimed they aren’t town. They’re town because of Mastina’s flip and no scum benefit

Town credit, going for the not knowing? I don't know Marry's line of thinking here.
Why is this a town reason? Keeping in mind I'm not the one argueing that this is why they are scum. I'm argueing that because they are scum it's a scum reason for doing so.

[marry]

lld explained readslist bad
me not agree
lld pressure me
i get fussy and type long winded defensive reply. i pause and delete it to actually think about what lld’s saying. never thought about what mastina did as being a scumtell. i dont identify with that meta, i didnt think it was scummy and back in my home site i never thought it was scummy. but i could plausibly see the reasoning, and lld was so confident and knew mastinas meta, so i agreed. mastina is likely scum.
i didnt inherently scumread mastina. i didnt need to, and id be lying if i thought mastina was absolutely scum. i just learned and changed my skillset to not disagree with lld, and put my hands up where i have been proven that im not necessarily right. people view shit differently

[marry]

“ I'm argueing that because they are scum it's a scum reason for doing so.” so you... conf-biased yourself into me being mafia so anything i do is scummy? ok dude just nuke me then i dont wanna play this back and forth with you if thats how it is..?

[joqiza]

hmm

maybe it will help if i kinda share my perspective

i basically don't know any of you other than marry, i don't play here very much. actually i've been doing this thing where i play on different sites w/ different communities because i've been trying to better figure out tells that transcend personal meta

when playing in different communities for the first time i've noticed there's sort of a "web" of meta that already exists among people who know each other

when a bunch of people on d1 start SR'ing another person for meta reasons, it's often a decent climate for a scum flip

even if i can't see too well myself, i can sort of read the gamestate in this fashion

i believe marry's attitude may have come from a similar place here. personally i wasn't 100% sure on mastina, but i did think the atmosphere was conducive for her to flip scum because of the people who knew her SRing her. i think marry had similar comments and i think this could explain her position on mastina's wagon while independently TRing her.

does that make any sense @VFP?

[marry]

hmm

maybe it will help if i kinda share my perspective

i basically don't know any of you other than marry, i don't play here very much. actually i've been doing this thing where i play on different sites w/ different communities because i've been trying to better figure out tells that transcend personal meta

when playing in different communities for the first time i've noticed there's sort of a "web" of meta that already exists among people who know each other

when a bunch of people on d1 start SR'ing another person for meta reasons, it's often a decent climate for a scum flip

even if i can't see too well myself, i can sort of read the gamestate in this fashion

i believe marry's attitude may have come from a similar place here. personally i wasn't 100% sure on mastina, but i did think the atmosphere was conducive for her to flip scum because of the people who knew her SRing her. i think marry had similar comments and i think this could explain her position on mastina's wagon while independently TRing her.

does that make any sense @VFP?

this is what i was trying to explain!!!

[VFP]

for doing so.” so you... conf-biased yourself into me being mafia so anything i do is scummy? ok dude just nuke me then i dont wanna play this back and forth with you if thats how it is..?

Okay then, tell me who I should consider as scum since this back and fourth is actually pointless.
And who do you think was scum bussing mastina?

[marry]

vfp ive spent this day arguing with you i havent read for scum and i want to nuke, you’re the one leading on me
gimme awhile to look at the actual gamestate, im mobile and mothersdaying

[VFP]

hmm

maybe it will help if i kinda share my perspective

i basically don't know any of you other than marry, i don't play here very much. actually i've been doing this thing where i play on different sites w/ different communities because i've been trying to better figure out tells that transcend personal meta

when playing in different communities for the first time i've noticed there's sort of a "web" of meta that already exists among people who know each other

when a bunch of people on d1 start SR'ing another person for meta reasons, it's often a decent climate for a scum flip

even if i can't see too well myself, i can sort of read the gamestate in this fashion

i believe marry's attitude may have come from a similar place here. personally i wasn't 100% sure on mastina, but i did think the atmosphere was conducive for her to flip scum because of the people who knew her SRing her. i think marry had similar comments and i think this could explain her position on mastina's wagon while independently TRing her.

does that make any sense @VFP?

Okay, maybe I find this harder to understand as nothing was meta for me yesterday.
But I think I get what you are trying to say? Meta normally suggests alignment in situations like that to players that know them, so you know it's probably a good lead, but don't see the scum side yourself?

My opinion doesn't change even with this information though.

[VFP]

vfp ive spent this day arguing with you i havent read for scum and i want to nuke, you’re the one leading on me
gimme awhile to look at the actual gamestate, im mobile and mothersdaying

I would hardly say this day, it's been about an hour.
I'm going to bed now though but I'm willing to listen to who you think is scum tomorrow evening.

[The Entity]

VOTE: VFP

[marry]

i only tuned in a bit ago so its been a day to me LOL, have a good night!!!

[Titus]

I don't think VFP is a good vote here.

[Mognet]

VOTE: VFP

Same issue as Titus dude.

Where’s your reasoning?

Why is this not a chainsaw of Marry?

I townread Marry to be fair but naked votes suck.

[Cephrir]

VFP, assume Marry is scum. Why does scum Marry fake claim eavesdropper multiple times?

Well since mastina was eavesdropper , it's probable scum discussed and wanted to use it with no CC risk.
I didn't take the claims I saw as hard claim though. mastina flipping eavesdropper negates that as any argument here.

Use it?

Townslip for not knowing what the eavesdropper is??

[Cephrir]

Why is this not a chainsaw of Marry?

Is it not possible to suspect someone who has a read without chainsawing for the read?

[The Entity]

VOTE: VFP

Same issue as Titus dude.

Where’s your reasoning?

Why is this not a chainsaw of Marry?

I townread Marry to be fair but naked votes suck.

I want to unpack the many layers of shit going on with this post but I'm afraid we don't have time to unpack that can of worms, and about 99% of it would be me screaming mafia theory at you instead of anything game-related, so I won't.

VFP was already pretty high on our suspicion list yesterday, we both had gut pings off of their posts. I'm also still riding high off of being so goddamn right about mastina after you did your damndest to stop the wagon, so I don't particularly feel compelled to give you reasons or anything since last time I did, you just ignored them.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.2

VFP (4) - T3, Bell, gorilla, The Entity
marry (2) - VFP, Robert M Hunter
Et Al (2) - Nexus, Mognet
Nexus (2) - samantha97, Titus
T3 (1) - Cephrir
Mognet (1) - Save The Dragons

Not Voting [10] - DeasVail, Koto, DeathNote, joqiza, Et Al, Vaxkiller, Lady Lambdadelta, The Church of Skitter, marry, Toogeloo

(expired on 2021-05-22 17:52:00) remain until day end

With 22 players alive, it takes 12 to reach a majority.

[Mognet]

Why is this not a chainsaw of Marry?

Is it not possible to suspect someone who has a read without chainsawing for the read?

Yes. When one provides reasons that can be scrutinized. Otherwise it’s a naked vote and a naked vote more often than not (outside of RVS) should be scrutinized for chainsawing when it meets the criteria.

[Cephrir]

I think that's pretty insane kupo

[Bell]

We should probably be killing VFP he's thread avoiding on purpose.

Ew, your one of those players...

I've posted in a game that finished today It's a busy day and I'm not here to post on demand for you..

That aside.
Why is Marry not eliminated yet?

1. Ad hom.
2. I don't recall saying you had to be here for me.
3. Diversion.

[Mognet]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aw_Defense

I don’t think so smiley face Kupo.

I think anything that fits this criteria should be pushed. Does it work always? Of course not. But by pushing I find out if it does or not.

[Mognet]

Both of these meet the criteria mentioned:

Titus was mum on Nexus before her vote. His name never showed up at all. << Point A never critical of the slot
And point B being it defense is rather clear as the vote happened right after Nexus pushed Et Al.

So I am pretty sure that fits a and b.

[Bell]

I don't think VFP is a good vote here.

I'm getting deja vu. I think VFP is a good vote here. Why do you think he isn't?