Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Anastasia]

I think you at least owe me the ability to vote first.

Sure infinity I'll let you vote just for the sake of completeness.

I feel like an idiot for doing this if you're scum because now you have a chance of winning when you didn't before, but sigh

You can always punt the decision to me I don't care, I'll vote for Briar no problem.

[unwnd]

there's this thing about motivation.

You see if we are decided on unwnd as the flip for the wall - he will die 100% of the time first.

However this is where the divergence happens:

Unwnd must make a "solve" for the gate before he dies.


(A)
For Town!Unwnd, he knows that he will flip town, and the solve for the gate will be the one that either wins or loses the game for the town. So he will feel the weight of the responsibility to come up with the correct answer and he will pour his soul and effort into it, to come up with a solution that he is certain is correct or at least as close to it as possible.

(B)
For Scum!Unwnd, he knows he will flip scum, the Keep will resolve townside and the game is effectively over, it does not matter what solve he creates. He has no need or motivation to fool anyone.


Can Scum!Unwnd muster the same effort and determination in Scenario (B) as he would in Scenario (A)? When all his effort and thought would ultimately be fruitless and pointless?

This is something very hard to fake. To pour yourself into something that is completely futile and pointless for you to do.

One of my greatest motivations in life is to prove people wrong so I will do what I have to

[Anastasia]

well I do hope you sweep me off my feet <3

[Infinity 324]

Infinity does seem kind of burned out tho

I think she gets sent to the keep regardless of her partner?

Stop stealing my thoughts, thief.

I think it makes sense, send people with more WIM to other places to fight.

I'd like to hear both of your thoughts now that I'm demonstrating I have at least a little bit of WIM.

I'm at scum!s_s now I think, fwiw

[Infinity 324]

So your post about the bravado was a reaction test? What reactions were you expecting as scum vs town?

pedit: @unwnd

I find when Dunn is town the ends justify the means. When he's scum, he spends a lot of time in this mode of fake thinking. There's a more general vagueness and I feel like he's less battered because he doesn't want to risk the attention. This plays in part of him idling at times. Dunn isn't a hyperposter and keeps to himself, and I don't think he's the scum to make big moves. He waits for people to make mistakes and then capitalizes on them.

Hmm, so do you think luke is scum here? This description seems to line up with dunn being town here

[Infinity 324]

I think you at least owe me the ability to vote first.

Sure infinity I'll let you vote just for the sake of completeness.

I feel like an idiot for doing this if you're scum because now you have a chance of winning when you didn't before, but sigh

You can always punt the decision to me I don't care, I'll vote for Briar no problem.

I think you know me well enough to know I'd never do this <3

[Anastasia]

I think you're trying to put doubt into my heart but my heart is closed and she has me completely.

[Anastasia]

I do appreciate you trying though! <3

[Infinity 324]

You're trying very hard so justify what I'd be doing as scum here :)

[Lukewarm]

In the interests of not having half this table informed tiptoeing around my identity/meta when I’m not actively hiding it: I’m Ydrasse.

That was one of my guesses!! (did not know which of you/ana might be ydrasse)

But I read through Divide and Conquer during Day 1 of this game because I am in round 2 of that set up.

[Anastasia]

I don't actually need to try very hard at all since I am certain Briar is town.

[Lukewarm]

Speaking of votes: when is the best time for us to flip? Assuming Keep first is still the preferred move — the other groups will be harder to resolve but I don’t know when it’s best to give up our presence vs. confirmed flips.

I think that this should be up to absinthe. Like once she is ready to move on to her own minigame, we can.

[Infinity 324]

Then why did you go through all the effort of making up your theory?

When scum is guiltied town doesn't need to think of "hmm what could the scum being doing here?" You just ignore their posts because they're all WIFOM.

You taking effort to justify why I'm scum means you know in your heart I'm town.

[Anastasia]

Then why did you go through all the effort of making up your theory?

When scum is guiltied town doesn't need to think of "hmm what could the scum being doing here?" You just ignore their posts because they're all WIFOM.

You taking effort to justify why I'm scum means you know in your heart I'm town.

because your effort implies something about the rest of the game state?

I've already laid out why you were absent yesterday and came in today.

[Infinity 324]

But why isn't it just WIFOM?

[absinthe]

See now you're just trying to win my heart, saying that in my time of need

I mean I've played plenty of positions sitting in the seat you are now where I'm being held to some absurd standard because my opponents happen to be able to clear themselves off things that shouldn't exist so I feel a great deal of sympathy for you.[/quote

~grumble vanilla cops grumble~

[Infinity 324]

I feel like scum!dunn would try to find a way to get more influence about the game rather than talking about theories everyone disagrees with. If he's scum here, he played pretty inflexibly and he's better than that.

[Anastasia]

But why isn't it just WIFOM?

Only if you have the foresight to know what I would think of your move.

[Anastasia]

I feel like scum!dunn would try to find a way to get more influence about the game rather than talking about theories everyone disagrees with. If he's scum here, he played pretty inflexibly and he's better than that.

see this is wifom where you try to say someone who we think is town, is town.

[absinthe]

In the interests of not having half this table informed tiptoeing around my identity/meta when I’m not actively hiding it: I’m Ydrasse.

I was right!

[Something_Smart]

You can tell me if I'm right about this guess in the postgame.

Spoiler: Why Infinity Came Back

The original scum plan was for infinity to pretend to be a tree in order to give as little information as possible.

As the evening wore on, the scumside realized that infinity's continued silence meant that me and briar would both be psuedo-ICs and could stay in the thread for longer, leaving Keep unresolved and weighing down the game state.

Realizing that this would be bad for them, they asked infinity to come back to the game to cast doubt on the Keep again in an attempt to reduce Briar/Me's influence on the game state.

This implies that I'm on the right path and my solve is indeed correct. Unwnd is scum and he needed Infinity to come back to salvage the situation or at least resolve Keep early so that he has the room to operate.

Interesting theory. Here's mine.

Spoiler: Why Infinity Came Back

She was busy last night.

[absinthe]

Speaking of votes: when is the best time for us to flip? Assuming Keep first is still the preferred move — the other groups will be harder to resolve but I don’t know when it’s best to give up our presence vs. confirmed flips.

I want your and anastasia's thoughts about the Gate (catboi vs S_S as town) for my own sake, and of course ALL the thoughts about the Wall in case I screw up the Gate.

I have more of a handle on S_S's towngame. I played twice(?) with catboi in 2013-2014. I haven't gone back to look at those games, but iirc in one he was town and in the other he was scum (and ironically I replaced into an IC slot). I feel like meta that stale is probably not all that useful. I've spectated a couple games that town-catboi played and I feel like there's a lot of alignment ambiguity in his town game.

[Something_Smart]

Gate last still feels like common sense to me. If we win the Gate, we likely win the game, and I have very little faith in us winning Wall.

[absinthe]

S_S you might be surprised at what is most concerning to me about you this game.

[Something_Smart]

Hm, it's actually to my advantage to guess it, isn't it.

Is it the way I've been talking about mechanics?