Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

hi gypyx! Thoughts on cakes and tiger?

- lilith

[Datisi]

anyway i'm gonna start working on that post i had in mind earlier in a different tab and see how far i get

something to know about me, for those in the audience who don't - i put a lot of stock in other people's reads. specifically, if i know that person A has an insanely good read rate of person B, person A claims they're very sure B is town, and then person A is either confirmed town (by death or something similar) or it's confirmed that A and B cannot be partners (e.g. because only one scum left alive), i will gve a lot of weight to A's read and will basically consider B very town, regardless of my own read of them. ok cool.

i'm getting vague townpings on skittler. (which is what i'd expect at this point regardless of her alignment because i am utter trash at reading skitter.)

*however* there is a certain ~thing~ here that i would expect town!skitter to say and/or do that she has not exactly done yet.

i will circle back to this eventually.

[added after reading everything: she kinda has, but not in a satisfactory way imho. i will update it at some point.]

what i was ~hinting~ at here: i know skitter has Very Good Reads on lilith and a50. and a bit ago i was following along panic room (viewtopic.php?f=51&t=85778) where both lilith and skitter were playing. i noticed that very very early in the game (quite literally page one) skitter claimed to be town on lilith.

Spoiler:

early townpings on lilith, yay!

~ skitter

can i just cite the inverse of the pyp game where i had the exact opposite read off of your first like three posts?

your demeanor/happiness/vibes is different between the two alignments and now that i know what i'm looking for it's p easy to tell the difference

~ skitter

i feel p good abt it tho!

~ skitter

they were both town in that game. i expected, if skitter's town in this game, that she would similarly claim a read on lilith early. now, i know she did mention her in 102, but at the time of my writing 128, i wasn't really satisfied with that. similarly, i was kinda disappointed that her read on a50 was "null", but i don't have an example of skitter confidently telling a50's alignment at a beginning of a game, so i took it as not that ai for her.

later on, she did say lilith was town, and continuously defended her, which like. idk i guess. there wasn't as much ~conviction~ there as i would've liked but. idk.

anyway. in my convo w lilith earlier today, precisely at 420, i thought "oh fuck lilith is town, what the fuck am i doing". however, i didn't wanna say that immediately, since i wanted to see if skitter would try to to intervene - since she has a good record of reading lilith, and i think her record of reading me also isn't too bad, i would kind of expect for town!skit to try to stop what she sees as a pointless tvt fight.

she didn't. however, i think this whole experiment is a waste, because even though skitter did "what i would expect scum!skit to do" in this most recent event, i am not ready to put that much stock into my own ideas of how town! or scum!skitter plays around us. and also i am not willing to put that much stock in "skit wasn't defending lilith

the amount

i think town!her would" because... yeah i do not have nearly enough confidence to claim that.

(i already hear heaven typing at their keyboard calling me scum for hmming and being indecisive in this post)

and finally, i wanna touch on this

Datisi I'm confused how you're both sus of Lilith hydra and also calling me in potential scum team

i wasn't sus of lilith anymore at that point. *however* i don't really think cakez is scum right now either, my "cakez/umlaut/kerset" solve is a solve if this game is on easy mode - since apparently half the game thinks cakez is scum, and kerset and umlaut are like. doing absolutely nothing. however i don't really think this is the solve because i'd expect scum!laut to either be bussing or be doing *something*.

[Gypyx]

hi gypyx! Thoughts on cakes and tiger?

- lilith

i have little to no confidence on reading tiger and i haven't seen anything that strikes me as AI from cakez

[SirCakez]

iirc umlaut being apathetic is a towntell???

[SirCakez]

Ok Datisi i misinterpreted your post about your team solve

[xHeavenx]

Datisi, can I see a scumgame of yours?

[Datisi]

also: pooky gives me a scummy vibe of "trying not to appear in the center of attention while still trying to steer the conversation to his liking" but i'm not too interested in acting upon it immediately because i know i need more time to read him and i would not want to get wrong!tunnelled on pooky.

end of this post is exessively worried about being perceived badly, like, in a way, you seem more concerned about being the cause to a town getting exed than the fact that a town gets exed if ya see what i mean?

(1) me being worried about looking bad is not scum!indicative for me. again, if you want relevant quotes, i can pull them up for you.

(2) the end of that post was a reference to miccro 960 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=83833) in which i wrongly tunnelled town!pooky.

for over 200 pages.

and then i voted him wrong in mylo. trust me, i do *not* want to do that again.

can you give me a counterexample where lilith does do a serious push as scum right away?

open 781: jk9++ is the only game i've played with scum!lilith, and skimming through her early iso, she did a semi-early serious push on penguin that game, so kinda?

also /shrug, the fact that she "usually" (which is debateable anyway) doesn't hardpush early as scum is nowhere near enough to convince me that that should make her town here - something something, meta changes, and this is faaaar too weak of a meta point (i.e. easily changeable) to be taken that seriously.

in other news: i'm reading interactions between lilith/cakez/pooky as Wrong. it feels like there's somehing wrong with them, i don't know if it's them having relatively strong reads on each other so quickly or what but i'm feeling uneasy.

Datisi being very dismissive off of one single meta read, it's either overconfidence or scum trying to keep the options open imo

please refer to 526. i trust that you know that there was no way for me to see your 524, and then type up 526 on which i call lilith town multiple times, in under 2 minutes?

what do you think his motivation for voting heaven was then?

i unno

, maybe he genuinely thought heaven's tone was bad and wanted to add to a push there? like i don't exactly townread cakez but i don't scumread him either and this seems a biiit too strong of a reaction to what happened

moonlogic : but i recall reading that scumtisi often makes this sort of typos

(1) "i unno" was deliberate. i think i remember seeing ari say "iunno" and i thought it sounded fun.

(2) i knew that post was gonna haunt me one day... you're thinking of this (viewtopic.php?p=12623441#p12623441), right? funny, but no. scum!tisi is more prone to making grammar errors, because focusing of grammar and the spirit of english while i'm bullshitting posts is difficult, that's correct. *however*, town!tisi is the one more prone to making typos - i type posts faster as town than as scum, and i tend to proofread them way less as town. and while i don't catch grammar mistakes as scum, i absolutely catch spelling errors when i'm proofreading my scumposts. and since i don't proofread my townposts as much... i don't catch the spelling errors. but grammar errors are happening way less when i'm town, since there's no cognitive load being used on big brain scumming.

[Datisi]

Datisi, can I see a scumgame of yours?

why do i have a wiki that i (mostly) keep up to date... here's the two most recent ones:

open 806: jk9++ - i was somewhat efforting d1, but after my only competent partner died n1 by the serial killer, i was lazy af, and basically tried to see how far i would get on shitposting though the game. spoiler: decently far?

mini normal 2195 - i really wanted to win this game for reasons, so this is probably the best example of me actually tryharding as scum.

[Tigerente]

@dats i'm p confident lilith is town, yeah, and if i feel like her slot needs some intervention do not fear i shall step in

But your thing this morning mostly happened during a ~thing~ at work and upon reading it afterwards it looked like the same convo rehashed and i didnt really feel like i needed to intervene after the fact

I didnt get to town on lilith on p1, it was a little later, like probably p10 or something thereabouts but yeah now i think she's town

For a50 i used to have that ridiculous read-rate too but its been a couple of years and i'm not as confident there so i wouldnt really put it in the same category rn

I used to be able to tell his alignment off of like 5 posts but i dont think o can necessarily pull that off reliably anymore so yeah
(There are many examples of me getting his aligment right, with confidencd, very early on)

I do think he's townish but like not to the same point that i would defend him hell to high water like i used to

Also, i just dont want to make the whole game abt me rn

[Datisi]

okay, maybe disregard my point of "scum!tisi doesn't make typos", i'm currently rereading parts of 2195, and i have found a couple of typos in my posts. though my first point of "i meant to type iunno because i've seen ari use it" still stands.

[xHeavenx]

i wasn't sus of lilith anymore at that point. *however* i don't really think cakez is scum right now either, my "cakez/umlaut/kerset" solve is a solve if this game is on easy mode - since apparently half the game thinks cakez is scum, and kerset and umlaut are like. doing absolutely nothing. however i don't really think this is the solve because i'd expect scum!laut to either be bussing or be doing *something*.

I like your observation here. I'll try not to get too sidetracked but I also want to say I looked at your scumgame and I don't think the tone matches. I think from the posts you've made so far you're a very well-rounded player however, so I would put you more into a leantown just by comparison.

So that being said, I'm with you on Cakez/Kerset/Umlaut being too easy. I don't know if Kerset/Umluat in this hypothetical just leave Cakez out to dry. There's equity to be found in even voting there, given it's the most popular wagon. It could be a situation where scum ignore their partner and believe town could change their mind. Not implausible but not really practical, because scum usually just want to follow the trend anyways. If Cakez is scum then it's nothing but good if they at least talk about it, but instead Umluat/Kerset are nowhere near relevancy. If I had to gander I'd probably say one scum between those three.

[Umlaut]

A50 as scum could actually deduce that there is only one M, if he got Goon + Godfather. My slip detector turned on.
VOTE: A50

Kerset, do you still believe in this? You're still voting it but then you haven't really posted much since then so it's hard to tell.

[Almost50]

THIS just in!

And this brings my Town tally of 2021 to an amazing 2/5 (W/L).

[Tigerente]

Fwiw i do think a50 is town

[Almost50]

is there a reason why a period of silence from you is followed by a joke that doesn't really add anything onto the discussion?

I also told y'all I can't contribute if all we are doing is meta which you ignored for some reason.

Forgot to mention Ydrasse was Scum in that game. She replaced in and won hands down, so

by meta

she might still be on this one (even as a co-mod)

[Almost50]

Also also..

I may become overly trolly today

. It's my birthday (well, it is June 8th already around here) so -as you may imagine- I'm probably going to lose it for a bit.

Ahem, guess it's time for my annual bath (didn't want to use "shower" as it may have implied "presents" and stuff, which would have ruined the joke)

Spoiler:

[Almost50]

I had a dream that datisi randomly got flashwagoned and died and flipped mafia

I had a dream you didn't dream that

[Tigerente]

while i to think bork made some good-looking points against him in 288 and 302. what's kind of worrying me is that he seems to be making points for scum!cakez, but then seemingly immediately walks back from them / ignores them in his own read, and idek.

@bork, what's your actual current read on cakez? also, why'd you like me brining up the ic (267)?

I feel like this is the most uncharitable interpretation of what I did possible, which is to clarify exactly what I didn't like about cakez and how it wasn't entirely congruent w/ lilith's points, mostly at pooky's behest. I think it's tantamount to a slight scumread on cakez, but I definitely need the game to progress a little bit. It's one data point and I don't consider myself someone who can pick cakez out particularly easily.

also, why'd you like me brining up the ic (267)?

You seemed relieved that you wouldn't have to deal with a difficult to read slot.

-b

[Tigerente]

Looking at pooky a little bit atm; I do like the way he brought up 360. I don't think it's something he had to do as scum here - I'm not really sure scum-pooky has any reason to really believe that I'm going to be so unelimable that he has to go a route where he's basically setting himself up to have to eventually townread me, especially considering I hadn't posted at all up until yesterday

That said I'm a little bit alarmed as to how hard he's going against cakez right now, it almost seems harder than lilith herself is and on some level I feel like explanations about confidence in lilith being town morphed into confidence in lilith being correct about cakez and I'd definitely like to untangle the two as far as where his cakez read is at

-b

[Almost50]

moonlogic :

Speaking of such:

if we do dwlee and they then have to shoot vulture, then we have to refloga stygian next, and if none of those three people are

town

, we lose. everything else has possibilities like this as well.

Ah.. the classical scum slip (that is not a slip).

You are now conf!Scum to me, because you were not thinking about SCUM when you intended to talk about them. (Like, how the hell can 3 people have "none of them as town" when all we have is a pair of scums??

Of course, I won't even push it because I know how this site works. I am just making a note for post-game.

Then what do I do?? I vote a townie and lose the game (Sorry, DWlee)

[Tigerente]

I will say if pooky is scum then cakez very probably is not (and pooky can tell you why i think that)

-b

[Dwlee99]

Then what do I do?? I vote a townie and lose the game (Sorry, DWlee)

[Tigerente]

I don't really mind cakez progressions at this point in the game overall, the issue I had w/ 237 notwithstanding. The reasons aren't particularly strong but I don't really see anything wrong with 184 or 185

-b

[Almost50]

I will say if pooky is scum then cakez very probably is not (and pooky can tell you why i think that)

-b

I don't think Pooky is Scum. I can read him to a T. Want some proof? There you go:

VOTE: Pooky

You slipped.. TWICE.

Spoiler: explanation

Posting the Russian flag is an attempt to inform your Scum partners you are the Traitor. As we all know, Russia was the heart & sould of the former USSR, and the USSR flag was RED.. thus USSR is the main Scum team, and Russia is the Traitor.

BEAT THIS kind of Scum hunting.

Guess what Pooky was in that game!

P.S. We did win the game, but no thanks to me.

[Tigerente]

I legit can't tell if you're trying to be helpful or are just screwing around, lol

-b