Open 822: Popcorn Mafia - Game Over!!

[Pavowski]

*logs in*

*Sees first post voting for confirmed town*

*Logs out again*

[Pavowski]

Luke wouldn't be a bad shot. But I wouldn't shoot there until d2 or d3 personally

Wouldn't rush the D1 shot anyway

[Pavowski]

Votesdon't mater and it's ultimately NM's choice.

Votes don't matter but are a good indicator of what people are thinking.

Vote early, vote often, vote with great prejudice

[Pavowski]

I’m drawing this out as long as I possibly can

Bad decision

VOTE: Hockeyfan

[Pavowski]

How quickly should he shoot, then?

[Pavowski]

Now give me a gun, so I can promptly shoot Pav

Spoiler: The dream

Pav is town tho

Yes, but I need my vengeance

[Pavowski]

if luke is town and gets the gun, i wont lie, but i dont think he'll be confident unless he has a strong townread at that point.

This is why I would say shoot Luke on day two or three.

[Pavowski]

if luke is town and gets the gun, i wont lie, but i dont think he'll be confident unless he has a strong townread at that point.

This is why I would say shoot Luke on day two or three.

You death tunnel 1 townie super loudly for the entirety of day 1, and suddenly no one wants to give you a gun. smh

Nah I'd give you the gun, just not first.

If you're mafia I know I'm gonna have a hard time reading you, so shooting you before endgame makes sense

But if you're town I give you a pretty good chance of hitting scum if you've seen a flip or two.

[Pavowski]

T3 actually sounds town to me, I must be doing this wrong.

Well, up until the Art vote.

Marci could be scum for that gif alone; I'm gonna have nightmares.

[Pavowski]

I'd consider Marci fairly tonally different from the Newbie game we just finished.

We were scum together.

[Pavowski]

Luke just pocketing the gunbearer smh

If this is a pocket attempt it's the laziest one ever

[Pavowski]

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

I'm townreading t3 which makes me nervous and makes me think I should be scum reading him.

If I read Marci on this game alone I'd peg her as scummy, but Marci here does not feel like scum!Marci as I've seen her. I dunno if I'd shoot there.

Hockey I'm not sure about. Initial impression was scummy but if he's scum it's a pretty lazy effort.

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like. Gonna review d1 when I get back to my laptop.

[Pavowski]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

[Pavowski]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

From my pov I mean

[Pavowski]

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

I'm townreading t3 which makes me nervous and makes me think I should be scum reading him.

Why does it make you nervous? You're allowed to TR someone regardless of other peoples reads on him

If I read Marci on this game alone I'd peg her as scummy, but Marci here does not feel like scum!Marci as I've seen her. I dunno if I'd shoot there.

Hockey I'm not sure about. Initial impression was scummy but if he's scum it's a pretty lazy effort.

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like. Gonna review d1 when I get back to my laptop.

I am not used to t3 feeling like town to me regardless of alignment, that's what makes me doubt the read

[Pavowski]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

I was getting ready to accuse you of tmi'ing how many scum there are, but double checked it is in the OP from the mod, and apparently I just missed it lol

4 seems like a lot for an 11 player game, but probably makes sense since we are nightless

Yeah I hadn't properly done the math until NM self-yeeted. Wish he'd waited a little longer. I still have null reads on half the lobby

[Pavowski]

[Pavowski]

You forgot the gunbearer =P

[Pavowski]

wait, from what i can understand from that graphic, marcis not even your number 1 scumread since u have a 2 on thier name yet u want to shoot them?

He's saying that's the order of his PoE.

[Pavowski]

Calling me understanding his post (I hope?) A mindmeld is interesting

[Pavowski]

And Marci could be town but could be town also.

This is big brain time

[Pavowski]

Oh, and I like Luke for town. I'm pickin' up good vibrations, he's giving me excitations.

Anyone besides me remember this godawful commercial?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Yikes. Don't remember the commercial but my folks wore out their Beach Boys cassettes

[Pavowski]

Saturday morning hot take:

I'm still sitting in null on too many people: Toogelo, Vulture, Enchant.

To those 3: who would you absolutely not shoot today if you were holding the gun?

[Pavowski]

Saturday morning hot take #2:

This game is weird.

Meta tells me this is wrong but my gut tells me this is right

[vote: Marci]

Why are you scumreading Enchant?

[Pavowski]

Oof, tag fail

Caffeine acquired

Reattempting

VOTE: Marci

[Pavowski]

Hello friends

I will miss the pictograms but welcome some more concrete thoughts from this slot

[Pavowski]

Could everyone give 3 or 4 players they think are scum, and why?

I'm suspicious of players who have voiced minimal or few scumreads, despite the fact there are FOUR scumazzers out and about from a town player's perspective. Players that fall under this category include T3, marcistar, Toogeloo, and probably others

It's probably pretty difficult for scum to voice many scumreads here, given they either have to choose in the limited pool of townies, or give scumreads on their buds

I'm still sitting in null on too many people: Toogelo, Vulture, Enchant.

I share your sentiment of suspicion and am therefore obliged to lean scum on these 3. From most to least scummy that'd be Toog -> Vulture -> Enchant, but that's based on not much and I want to hear more from them, hence my question on the previous page.

I have trouble reconciling my feelings on Marci and T3. T3 usually strikes me as scummy but feels towny, I think I'm gonna lean into that for now. I'm going with my gut to lean Marci into scum.

Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now

I'm never gonna feel confident in a read on Luke, so he will probably spend most of the game in null for me but I have to put him as town for now, I don't think he's the move for today at any rate.

Then there's you (Hectic), who I think I'm towny on, but I'll have a better idea once I have some words from you to work with.

There I think I've done everybody, this is usually the point where people start scumreading me pretty hard.

[Pavowski]

Could everyone give 3 or 4 players they think are scum, and why?

I'm suspicious of players who have voiced minimal or few scumreads, despite the fact there are FOUR scumazzers out and about from a town player's perspective. Players that fall under this category include T3, marcistar, Toogeloo, and probably others

It's probably pretty difficult for scum to voice many scumreads here, given they either have to choose in the limited pool of townies, or give scumreads on their buds

I'm still sitting in null on too many people: Toogelo, Vulture, Enchant.

I share your sentiment of suspicion and am therefore obliged to lean scum on these 3. From most to least scummy that'd be Toog -> Vulture -> Enchant, but that's based on not much and I want to hear more from them, hence my question on the previous page.

I have trouble reconciling my feelings on Marci and T3. T3 usually strikes me as scummy but feels towny, I think I'm gonna lean into that for now. I'm going with my gut to lean Marci into scum.

Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now

I'm never gonna feel confident in a read on Luke, so he will probably spend most of the game in null for me but I have to put him as town for now, I don't think he's the move for today at any rate.

Then there's you (Hectic), who I think I'm towny on, but I'll have a better idea once I have some words from you to work with.

There I think I've done everybody, this is usually the point where people start scumreading me pretty hard.

Disclaimer on the above:
The fact that there's 4 scum out there really has me doubting everything I'm thinking about this game, as I know that half the players are full of fuckery

[Pavowski]

Lukewarm likely town for:

-Being aware Not_Mafia actually has good reads, yet picking him to be the gun bearer nonetheless.

Is this what you meant to write? Town!Luke could not have given NM the gun, only Scum!Luke could have

[Pavowski]

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but I am going to assume that they don't apply here, so let the speculation commence

?? Hectic is Art's alt, not really a rep-in?

[Pavowski]

Hectic's 341 is cleaner on Marci than my thinking has been so I like my meaningless vote a little better now.

Also +1 Hectic, excitations

[Pavowski]

Maybe it's just my take on this setup but I don't think it makes sense to ask for the gun today as town

But then I have to WIFOM myself down the drain. Is Toog asking for the gun hoping to get the gun? Or are they asking for the gun hoping they won't get it?

[Pavowski]

All of Pav's reads seem sheepy and based on other peoples reads which could be scum sheeping town here. "Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now" is an example from 336 is an example. Also I dont really like 337 since that post implies hes wiling to keep all of his options open and not commit hard to a TR/SR.

This is just another one of those weird posts from Hockey. The thought process just doesn't make sense to me. You're welcome to SR me for "not committing hard", but, seriously...

Who, playing Mafia, doesn't keep their options open?

[Pavowski]

The chaotic energy of Marci's 392 is just

But specifically this:

But we have tiiiimeee, so marci, if you're not scum, give us a power star; talk about your reads etc

PLS SMSSKSMSK THIS IS SO FUNNY
i dont have too much reads, and im sure not confident enough in them to do anything with it

Do not like this response at all. Surely you have *something*?

[Pavowski]

I'd be disappointed if at least 2 of T3/marcistar/Pavowski weren't scum

We'd likely be in a good position if those 3 were the next 3 shots

Possibly a 5 town, 2 mafia situation

There very well could be 2 scum there, I'm less confident in my TR on T3 over time.

Sorry you didn't like my last 3 posts. Let me elaborate and clarify.

Toog is still in null and I could read them asking for the gun either way. I'm still leaning scum.

I didn't particularly feel I was playing defense against Hockey, moreso stating my philosophy.

And Marci, well, it looks like you agree with my conclusion on that slot if not my reasons, so I'll take it.

[Pavowski]

There is like an arc in his iso, where it seems like his mindset for this game changes over time

I agree with your assessment, but is he scum or town?

[Pavowski]

I guess voting isn't cool on d2 in this game

UNVOTE: Marci

[Pavowski]

Explain?

You're trying to scare me into thinking an incorrect shot on you ends the game since you would mishoot me, aren't you?

Him scumreading you doesn't necessarily mean he'd shoot you, but yes, all the thinking in this game gets very precarious very quickly given 4 scum.

Would be nice if Galron hits red to give us some breathing room.

No pressure!

[Pavowski]

pavowski gib readlist

Ehhhhh.

Town-lean (no particular order)
Hectic
Luke
Hockey

Null-to-scumlean (descending order)
Vulture
Enchant
T3

Scum (would probably shoot today if I held the gun)
Toog
Marci


Now you.

[Pavowski]

I wasn't really comfortable with my TR to begin with. Whatever struck me as towny about him (it was a feel more than info-based) has dissipated over his posts in the past day or two.

Also don't buy his defense of Marci.

[Pavowski]

No, it's not an apology in the sense of "you didn't like my posts, I must fix them", it's more like I feel like I'm not communicating very well. Point is I don't want people to think I'm scum, and I don't particularly want to get shot today and have the game fall on my shoulders, so I want to make sure that if I'm being scum read, it's at least for my dubious reads and ideas and not for my messy way of stating them.

[Pavowski]

What are your thoughts, Galron? I would recommend not spontaneously shooting like the snorlax.

Also, idea: Letting someone know you plan on shooting them 24 hours before you do gives a good opportunity for them to try and townspew/scumspew one last time on maximum WIM, and hopefully make their alignment clearer for us

I would also like to hear some thoughts from Galron and in addition to requesting intent to shoot, I would ask for a reads list before you do shoot, just in case you do miss and die. We know we can at least trust your reads to be genuine.

[Pavowski]

Why are you town?

What a question. I mean, the short answer is green text in my pm

The longer answer is I'm trying to find scum and I'm trying to make my thinking clear to the group. I think we have found scum in Marci, whose "how could anybody possibly suspect me" schtick is pretty much all she's offered. I think she's a good shot and I think a red flip there would tell us a lot. (I say that fully aware that if she's town, she seems likely to shoot me at this point when she gets the gun, and that's the game if it goes that way... But I don't think she survives getting shot.)

I'm also trying to clean up my reads list because I keep forgetting there are 4 scum in this lobby which from my POV means half the non-gunbearing players are out here bullshitting. I have a bad habit of interacting with everybody as if they're town and forgetting that the entire point of this game is for a subset of the players to make bad-faith arguments.

Anyway, take a look at my reads and decide if you trust me not to lose the game. Because if you shoot me, I have to shoot to keep the game alive. Personally I don't like my chances right now because I don't have a ton of confidence in any of my reads. I think I've also made it pretty clear where I'd likely aim first.

[Pavowski]

We'll hash it out in the post game Marci, but if you flip town I'm gonna have to lie down.

[Pavowski]

Usually when I get townread or am conftown I get very lackluster.
To be honest, I don't know.
I still think Art is scum for a bull [*dolphins chittering*] case.

omg T3 has an avatar

The apocalypse is upon us

[Pavowski]

Well that was abrupt. Gal mind giving reads in case it's a bad shot?

[Pavowski]

Enchant meanwhile seems to be avoiding this game which makes his scum equity rise sharply

My thoughts exactly.

I have more thoughts this morning but I'll wait for the T3 flip before I dive in too far.

[Pavowski]

Feeling better about my reads now. Nice shot Gal. Toog's stock rising for me too

[Pavowski]

Lot of back and forth since this morning. Just a quick check in for me at lunch here but I still think Marci is scum, and T3's defense of her earlier suggests to me that we've been on the right track there.

But I am also starting to think that either Luke or hectic could be scum with her. Luke's pulling back which is unlike him (too many games he said and I get that, but still) but he seems to be holding some sus on Marci which brings him back up some in my book. I don't love hectics push on me. Scum knows I'm legit and could easily be trying to get Galron to shoot me here, add to that I've already said I'm not super confident in my reads. Maybe he wants me to get the gun and misfire. Taking a more critical look at this slot from here on out.

Not sure who that leaves as the 3rd, but I don't think hockey is likely.

Hectic you asked about me wanting reads from Galron. (Hard to quote as I'm on mobile right now.) I don't know Galron at all before this game, I just think it'd be beneficial to get reads from confirmed town before a shot since anybody can be wrong. On policy I don't think it's a good idea to die with information in your pocket. If I get the gun I will certainly give reads before I shoot. (Not that my reads have been a secret lately.)

[Pavowski]

I forgot about enchant. He's back and posted ... Something. Yeah, that'd be my current guess for the 3rd right now.

[Pavowski]

What are your thoughts, Galron? I would recommend not spontaneously shooting like the snorlax.

Also, idea: Letting someone know you plan on shooting them 24 hours before you do gives a good opportunity for them to try and townspew/scumspew one last time on maximum WIM, and hopefully make their alignment clearer for us

I would also like to hear some thoughts from Galron and in addition to requesting intent to shoot, I would ask for a reads list before you do shoot, just in case you do miss and die. We know we can at least trust your reads to be genuine.

Well that was abrupt. Gal mind giving reads in case it's a bad shot?

I didn't say earlier, Pavoski, but do you know Galron or respect his play? Because I found this intense worry about him giving final reads before shooting really weird.

Ok I took the trouble to quote on mobile because I want to get this right. "Intense worry" is quite a way to characterize my posts there. My first post specifically says why I would like the reads regardless of how the shot goes, and the 2nd is just a response to the fact that the shot was fired without giving those reads and I didn't want to miss the opportunity to hear from him.

I can't help what Galron (or anybody) might have read into the tone of those but to imply I'm disrespectful of his play is a stretch. All the reads lists going around right now are great but half of them (less now with T3 gone) are full of fuckery and the only person we all know is giving reads in good faith is Galron. I don't think it's inappropriate to want that information.

It's uncharitable implications like this (in addition to the fact that you're simply wrong on your read of me) that have you plummeting in my reads right now, hectic.

(Sidenote - you sound like a nice guy too, it's all good brother)

[Pavowski]

Anyway I way exceeded my lunch break getting into all that. Will be back in a few hours.

[Pavowski]

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Spoiler:

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

Toog is town. I see where vulture has proven toog to be wrong. But toog is town

This is actually pretty compelling. If Toog is doing scum theater here it's heckin deep theater.

[Pavowski]

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Spoiler:

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

Toog is town. I see where vulture has proven toog to be wrong. But toog is town

This is actually pretty compelling. If Toog is doing scum theater here it's heckin deep theater.

OMG I tried to spoiler and hide the big quote and I broke the formatting. Sorry =\

Anyway this point from Luke on Toog is difficult to argue with.

[Pavowski]

Yikes I did it again. Apologies. Wth.

[Pavowski]

This is kinda dodgy though. Lukewarm having "some sus" on marci pulls him up some in your books? How confident exactly are you on marci being scum for that to be the case?

The bolded feels a little off too, like you're trying to convince an audience of your suspicions

I'm still fairly confident in scum!Marci.

I'm willing to be proved wrong but I don't think I am.

Per the bolding, yes, I am trying to convince the lobby of my suspicions. It's possible you're scumreading me in good faith, but it's just as likely, and maybe more so, that you're not.

[Pavowski]

Lot of back and forth since this morning. Just a quick check in for me at lunch here but I still think Marci is scum, and T3's defense of her earlier suggests to me that we've been on the right track there.

wow shocker scum still hating on me
how does it suggest its on the right track instead of some sort of mind game?

You getting shot was feeling like a distinct possibility, but (obviously, seeing as it didn't happen) by no means a foregone conclusion. Scum can try to steer sus off their partners, right?

Sure, it could be a mind game, but he didn't try to hard-clear you (like he did me -- he specifically read me as town at one point), all he did was say you weren't scum / couldn't be read because of reasons. He later hid behind this to claim he wasn't defending you.

[Pavowski]

I agree with all the points Luke made about Hockey, and I recall feeling like Hockey and T3 having really weird interactions early in the game. I believe the term I used was they were, "slobbin' each other's knobs."

Hockey is someone who shouldn't make it to endgame.

I had forgotten about this but it was a good observation then and it's giving me pause in my townread of Hockey right now.

[Pavowski]

I'm slightly curious where I disappeared to in Pavowski's reads. I was a bottom two for them before T3 was shot, then completely excluded from the reads after.

Don't take it personally. It's not just you; I haven't done full reads since the shot. (I'm not quite ready to do so yet, either, but there are interesting things happening today thanks to the scumflip.) All I've said so far is I still scumread Marci and I'm FoSing Luke a little bit and Hectic a lot right now.

You're on the rise today, though. Probably slightly north of null at the mo.

[Pavowski]

My apologies for spamming this page. Not my intent. Gonna back off for a little bit.

[Pavowski]

At this point, I think you just have a conf bias of Marci being scum. You're not attempting to read her recent posts and are just saying "another scum post from Marci" every time she posts

This is entirely possible and I'm trying to avoid it, I'm sure it's getting tiresome to those of you *not* scumreading Marci. I will try harder to avoid it in the future. (When she asks me questions, though, I feel somewhat compelled to answer.)

I agree with all the points Luke made about Hockey, and I recall feeling like Hockey and T3 having really weird interactions early in the game. I believe the term I used was they were, "slobbin' each other's knobs."

Hockey is someone who shouldn't make it to endgame.

I had forgotten about this but it was a good observation then and it's giving me pause in my townread of Hockey right now.

Sickkkk, perfect opportunity for scum!pav to shade me as soon as other people start sr'ing me

"giving pause in my townread" =/= scumread, but boy you sure did jump to that conclusion

[Pavowski]

but I still think Marci is scum, and T3's defense of her earlier suggests to me that we've been on the right track there.

This is a very level 1 reason for thinking marci is scum. Scum defending someone does not make that person more likely to be scum. It probably means nothing on its own.

You gotta look at the way T3 defended marci and whether or not you think it's genuine/theatre

You're misrepresenting me again, and I don't like it.

She's not scum *because* he defended her. I already scumread her. T3's passive defense of her makes me think he was trying to shunt off suspicion on her without going so far as to hard townread her. So no, I did not find that defense genuine.

[Pavowski]

Wtf is "giving pause in my townread" supposed to mean then? Are you putting me back to null so u can decide wheetr to jump in on a push From Luke and start to SR Me?(should he continue it)

(This feels like such an overreaction to me.)

It means I'm entertaining a bit of doubt on what is in general a fairly strong townread.

[Pavowski]

It's not interesting.

wat

[Pavowski]

That doesn't look like theatre to me, Galron

Can you explain

why

you're confident on scum!marci, Pav?

@Enchant:

Why are you avoiding this game? Who're your guess for the remaining 3?

This is entirely possible and I'm trying to avoid it, I'm sure it's getting tiresome to those of you *not* scumreading Marci. I will try harder to avoid it in the future. (When she asks me questions, though, I feel somewhat compelled to answer.)

Uh, why would you ever let someone you think could be scum shut down you voicing a scumread? There's 3 scum out there and from your reads I can see you think hockey could be one, I don't know why you'd listen to his advice here and avoid openly voicing a scumread on marci

Hi, Pav

Hi, Hectic.

I wasn't gonna do this as I think most of the lobby has had enough of me and my push on Marci specifically. (I know I'm tired of talking about it.) But since you insist, and since Galron has declared intent to shoot, I'm gonna go back and do my best to read her with clear eyes.

In the meantime, a question for you since you're scumreading me (over the Marci read, and whatever else). If I'm scum, why in the balls am I going neck-deep in my scumread on Marci? If she does flip green (again I doubt it but let's face it, I could obviously be wrong), I'm almost guaranteeing that she turns around and shoots me in the face. A 1-for-1 trade is hardly ideal for scum in this setup. How is this a winning play for me as scum?

[Pavowski]

Can you explain

why

you're confident on scum!marci, Pav?

Okay, I did my dive. I'll do everybody the benefit of skipping shitposts in the beginning. I was gonna itemize the ISO, but it's short -- 30 posts or so -- so anybody who wants to see what I'm talking about can surely go back and see it for themselves.

The summary is this. What I see from Marci is a pattern of shitposting, bragging about carrying the game, and countering basically all pressure with some variation of "how could anybody possibly scumread me". Weirdly, while she's boasting about carrying the game and nailing scum in some posts, in others she expresses very low confidence in her reads.

There are contradictions, too. She links some of her scumgames in 249 as evidence how her play here is different, I guess, but in 408 expresses frustration at being read by meta.

She doesn't give any substantive reads until 448, but even these are loaded with the same bizarre tone that has struck me for the entire game. She finally starts asking a few questions and making some appearance of scumhunting in the late 500s, after T3 is dead and I'm tunneled in on her.

So I'll echo the point recently made by Hockey (which Hockey doesn't like, but that's an issue for another time) to say her ISO is mostly devoid of content. She'll protest, of course, but read her ISO for yourself. What's left is her tone, and here's what I have on that front:

Marci and I just played a scum game where she sounded entirely different than she does now.

Different? Pav, shouldn't that mean you're townreading her compared to that game?

I'd say yes, but she sounds different from that game to the degree she sounds almost like an *entirely different person*. It feels to me like a wicked overcorrection.

I fully own that I could be wrong, though, and if anybody is particularly townreading her, I'd be curious to hear the alternate perspective.

This is the part where I declare a moratorium on myself posting about Marci for at least a RL day, or until she flips.

[Pavowski]

...is killing...

[Pavowski]

if im town how would yalls reads change

I'm feeling townish on Toog and Hockey these days, so ... I guess my poe would be in Vulture, Enchant, Luke, Hectic ... in no particular order at the moment, but I'm not super comfortable leaning into any of that right this minute.

Why are you saying "if" though? You know how you're flipping here. If you're town, who are you inclined to shoot?

[Pavowski]

I'm feeling townish on Toog and Hockey these days, so ... I guess my poe would be in Vulture, Enchant, Luke, Hectic ... in no particular order at the moment, but I'm not super comfortable leaning into any of that right this minute.

what do u think about how enchant was tring me earlier?

Enchant admitted he's hardly following the game so I dunno what to make of his reads on anybody.

[Pavowski]

Yo Pav, can you articulate your thoughts on Luke? With like those fancy reasons people do sometimes

I know I'm asking you for a big favour here but I'll pay you in soul hearts if you can help me out

Yeah I'll do some thoughts on Luke tonight.

[Pavowski]

It dawned on me that the Gunbearer should always make a final thoughts list when shooting. The person who has been shot doesn't need to leave reads, that is pointless.

I called for this before the T3 shot as well, Hectic gave me 2nd glances for it Watch out!

[Pavowski]

Here you go Hectic,

First things first on Luke, the meta is messing with me. Feels like he was in shitposting mode for a lot longer than I would expect from him, and his lack of posting in the last few days is unlike him too. Not the first time I've mentioned it, and I'll again shoot my own argument in the foot by remembering he said he's overextending. His posts back and forth with Marci early in the game kinda left me feeling odd, too, and I remember having the thought that it could be theatre, but if Marci indeed flips town here, then I'd need to look back at that. He could be scum shading her, there.

His miss on Hectic "repping" in flagged me oddly too. It's not the kind of thing I'd expect Luke to miss; in my experience he's pretty meticulous. I wouldn't put it past him to manufacture a townslip like that, but as I mentioned earlier, I have a hard time reading Luke generally so I could be in full paranoia mode on that one.

Then I go a little further and I see his back-and-forth with Vulture which feels genuine... and in 598 he puts the scumteam as me + Marci + Vulture. Well, we'll soon have a marci flip, and I know I'm good, so if that rule of 3 thing is true it would make Luke + Vulture the team?

Like, I dunno. I usually expect a lot more analysis and content from Luke, scum or town, so this withdrawn Luke is a lot harder to read and I already have a hard time with Luke. It certainly doesn't prejudice me to think he's town, though.

In short my read on Luke is a big fookin mess right this minute and I need to sleep on it. I am too distracted waiting on the Marci flip even though she's now got me thinking she's green. If I had to quantify it, he's a scum lean for me but not a strong one.

[Pavowski]

Like in short a green Marci flip is gonna compel me to take a day or so to recalibrate since I'll have to readjust my entire thinking about this game

[Pavowski]

I wondered if it was a joke but your swoosh made me think it wasn't. I guess the swoosh was for me. Noted and I'll add that to the stew when I can brain properly again

[Pavowski]

Scum!Pav may think it's a good idea to remain unsure because he wants to look uninformed, but I don't think it's genuine her

I've seen post-elim pre-flip scum fuckery before and Marci's first reaction to being shot did not at all sound like town, so forgive me for withholding my faith in her until the flip.

That said, I was wrong about you Marci, my bad.

Meanwhile hectic isn't gonna miss an opportunity to read me in the least favorable way possible and I think I've seen that enough this game. Welcome to the top slot in my PoE. If I get the gun here it's probably gonna be open Hectic season.

[Pavowski]

Me talking about Art being a hectic alt before the rep in (and art confirming)

Spoiler:

Art, I hate alt speculation, but T3 already did it (which, T3 stop outing peoples alts!)

Are you publicly known to be hectic?

Have you actually said anything about Art this game other than asking if he was an alt?

Probably not. Not really sure how to engage with his art posts lol

Out side of that, I think that Hectic is a good player, and of the player list is probably the person I would trust most with the gun. That is why he is on the tier he is in.

If he flips scum, an unreadable scum dies. If he is town, that a good player is holding the gun

My post about Hectic swapping in that Pav said was me "town slipping"

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but

I am going to assume that they don't apply here

, so let the speculation commence

And, like

the reason

I don't think the rules apply is because it was the same player repping in to the same slot

Me actively talking about the fact that hectic and art were the same person

Spoiler:

I think that the rep in makes hectic town.

I don't really think that there is a reason for scum!art to make the switch right now.

He was in no danger of being shot, and his art posts made it hard to read him, but in a way that you could not say was ai, because it was just the alt gimmick doing it.

So, maybe he would do it if his buddies were in danger, but I scrolled back to see who he might be saving, and I think marci scum reads were the most recent development happening in the thread, so the fact that she is the one he is pushing takes messes with that idea as well

Me pointing out that Pav missed the joke at the beginning, and so he apparently missed this twice too

Spoiler:

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but I am going to assume that they don't apply here, so let the speculation commence

?? Hectic is Art's alt, not really a rep-in?

/swoosh

Shrug, I am dumb sometimes, the current gamestate being strong evidence

[Pavowski]

Galron is right that this is the final chance to shoot someone townread on the suspicion that they are deepwolfing. The best shot is still your gut though, Marci.

I've been weakly gutreading Toog as town recently but this just feels so town to me. If scum this is basically just taking a dice roll

[Pavowski]

Do you see the difference; and which is from town, and which is from scum? One is rather nonchalant and almost dismissive, the person isn't overly concerned with being shot because hey, they'll get the gun.

The other writes a wall trying their best to change the gunbearer's mind, since being shot = DEATH.

You're making 2 mistakes here.

1 you're assuming a scum flip from me which is not coming no matter how convinced you may be (but I've been there this game, I can relate) (if you're town of course but less and less I think this is possible)

2 you're assuming I shouldn't care if I get shot. Well, then as now I don't want to get shot because every villager shot puts us closer to a loss, and then as now if I get shot on this round the game is on my shoulders for the subsequent shot. Not a situation I want to yawn my way into.

[Pavowski]

Hey Enchant. How do you feel about the Marci flip? Who would you shoot? What did you have for breakfast? Give us something.

[Pavowski]

Hmm.

Might have been asked this before but Pav, what would you be doing as scum right now?

Don't think I have been asked that in this game.

I'd probably be trying to poke holes in the towncred of anybody being correctly townread

And generally trying to muddy the waters for the gunbearer's shot

Or maybe just hanging back while the loud voices in the room joust against each other

Not sure how I'd be playing it to be honest, it would depend who my partners were and who's town.

[Pavowski]

This is off topic, but we now have 3 players who have openly expressed reluctance to play/post due to not holding the gun and I just don't get it, I think this setup is fascinating. But to each their own!

[Pavowski]

gib ur team prediction

Really difficult but I'll do my best.

My elim pool is Luke, Hectic, Vulture, and Enchant right this second. Hockey seems unlikely and Toog is gutpinging me hard as town over their recent posts.

Problem is I don't see a ton of scum equity among those 4, although this setup doesn't necessarily lend itself to the scum team showing a lot of equity. I also have a hard time thinking Luke and Hectic could be teamed, though I don't think I could articulate a good reason for that.

So... Enchant, Vulture, Luke/Hectic.

I go back and forth on Hectic. On one hand I feel like he's reading me unfavorably at almost every opportunity to try and get me shot. On the other he could be genuinely scum hunting and I just look bad for him. I know I was all gung-ho shoot Hectic this morning but honestly he's still one that could flip either way and not surprise me at all. (I double-talk myself a lot, which is probably the source of most of the scumreads against me, but I am what I am.)

Gun to head, I'd shoot Hectic over Luke. Ask me again in a couple hours and that could change.

But tomorrow's Saturday so I'm planning to re-read the game and see if my gutfeels line up with a look back.

[Pavowski]

Also sorry if I'm being extra-thick again but I dunno what pog means?

[Pavowski]

I mean he's wrong, but I was way wrong on Marci so I guess I can't be mad about it. The question is if he's wrong because he's scum or because I don't know how to not sound scummy.

Actually, I guess it could be both.

Anyway, refresh my memory? Your solve is me + ?

[Pavowski]

@Marci, I dont know if this will help you at all, but I tried my best to compile how everyone is being read

This is everyone, but for some people, if I could not find an expressed read, I plugged it in as "null reads"

Enchant is read as scum by 2 people, null by 3, town by 1

Vulture is read as scum by 2 people, null by 2, town by 2

Hectic is read as scum by 1 people, null by 3, town by 2

Hockey is read as scum by 2/3 people, null by 1/2 , town by 2

Toog is read as scum by 1 people, null by 1,

town by 4

I am read as scum by 2/3 people, null by 2/3, town by 1

Pav is read as

scum by 5

people, null by 1 , town by 0

Spoiler: Notes on who is reading where

Enchant: Pav(SR) Hec(SR) Hoc(NR) Luke(TR) Toog (NR) Vult(NR)
Vulture: Pav(SR) Hec(TR) Hoc(TR) Luke(SR) Toog (NR) Ench (NR)
Hectic: Pav(NR) Hoc(TR) Luke(TR) Toog(SR) Ench (NR) Vult(NR)
Hockey : Pav(TR) Hec(TR) Luke(SR) Toog(SR/NR?) Ench(SR) Vult(NR)
Toog : Pav(TR) Hec(TR) Hoc(TR) Luke (TR) Ench(SR) Vult(NR)
Luke : Pav(NR) Hec(SR/NR) Hoc(SR) Toog (TR) Ench (NR) Vult(SR)
Pav : Hec(SR) Hoc(SR) Luke(SR) Toog (SR) Ench (NR) Vult(SR)

Things I noticed compiling this:

• Toog is fairly universally town read
  Pav is fairly universally scum read
  All of Toog, Enchant, and Vulture have very few expressed town reads, and I had to just plug in a lot of "null reads" on everyone out side of thier scum piles
  I am less widely town read then I thought I was x.x

(The partial votes are, Hectic's read on me, because he seems to be bouncing back and forth, and then Toog's read on Hockey because he said he should not make it to end game, but then was not in his most recent solve)

This is the kind of analysis I felt I needed to do but really didn't want to do. Thanks Luke.

[Pavowski]

I guess I am trying to decide if I think that implies that we are wrong on Pav, and scum team is riding it, or are his partners bussing / letting him sink

Put another way, scum would be happy to give me the gun

[Pavowski]

Hectic you have me cracking up this morning. You go from absolutely certain I'm scum in 767 to pretty sure I'm town in 772 with zero input from outside sources.

I'm not even saying it's scum-indicative or anything -- I'm barely awake and hardly thinking yet so I'll decide that later -- but you made me laugh and I APPRECIATE YOU

Now watch as the rest of the lobby uses this as evidence we are scum together.

Let's grab a beer after this game!

[Pavowski]

First thing I'm doing in my review this morning is reading T3.

If I had to draw conclusions from T3's iso, I'd say it leads me to think Hockey is town, Hectic is town, and Enchant is scum.

The very first thing T3 tries to do in game is clear Enchant. He hard townreads the slot early (11, 16, 27) and then doesn't make too many comments about it thereafter (townreads him again in 299). Townreading Enchant is hard to do in this game (imo) and he never justifies it.

He defends Hockey pretty consistently in the thread, listing him as a top-tier townread just about every time. I'm not saying it's a pocket attempt (though there could be some of that - 137 f'rex), rather that it could be whiteknighting to gain towncred. It's not super-obvious WKing though, as Hockey wasn't under tons of pressure. Townreading Hockey rings more genuine than townreading Enchant because he's able to actually make the case for Hockey. It's possible Hockey and T3 are teamed and the interactions between them are theatre (Hockey bristles at a pocket attempt in 233) but it just doesn't strike me that way.

As for Hectic, his scumread of that slot is tied up with his defense of Hockey and I'll grant I might be doing mental gymnastics to TR them both, but this is how I get there:

T3 knows all of our alignments.
If I accept that Hockey is town, and T3 is gonna defend that slot for cred, then
Pushing town!Hectic for pushing town!Hockey becomes a credible ploy for a mis-shoot on Hectic with a defense after the fact of "well, he was attacking somebody who's basically locktown for me"
And it's possible T3 comes out of a mis-shoot on Hectic looking not particularly scummy in that hypothetical.

(I am realizing, after typing this, that this line of thought leans toward town!Hectic even if Hockey were scum.)

Consider also that as the pressure mounts and T3 looks like a likelier shot, he locks in and doubles down on scum!Hectic. I don't think scum, in a position under pressure, is just gonna try to shunt pressure off onto another scum slot. Worst case: it doesn't work and nothing is achieved, best case: it buys them a day and we get to weigh whether their arguments were genuine or whether they *knew* scum was scum, which keeps them under focus.

It can be dangerous to try and sort out when scum is lying and when they're being truthful because it benefits them, so I'm not calling the game based on this, but these are my strongest gutreads from T3.

[Pavowski]

Obviously I'm leaving out the other slots; I don't think I can draw any strong conclusions on them from his iso.

[Pavowski]

Dammit, so here I go waffling more on Hectic. Ugh. I almost want you to get shot right now just so that I can know the truth about you, and I'd be more comfortable with that since you seem less inclined to shoot me if it goes that way. If Marci was the all-consuming question for me d3, you've become the same for d4.

[Pavowski]

Hectic is not in your list.

[Pavowski]

Vulture please stop posting town, I am narrowing down a PoE/solve that I thought I was comfortable with but I kinda need you in it

[Pavowski]

I'm trying but it's the weekend and I had a substance last night so just give me a minute, I will figure my life out soon enough, maybe

[Pavowski]

Okay, I've gone back through the entire game.

Will admit I got a little fatigued in the back half but that part is fresher in my mind anyway.

I used a highly scientific and unexplainable system to spotcheck my preconceived notions and straighten out my thinking. Realized I was operating under some bad assumptions. I am adjusting my thinking accordingly.

Not gonna itemize it or wall it, most of this group scumreads me already and I'm not gonna give them more ammo, and I hate walls anyway.

VOTE: Lukewarm

Enchant is a good shot, too, but I think this one is better.

[Pavowski]

In post 773, Hectic wrote:
Inspired new solve:

Lukewarm + Enchant + Toogeloo

I reread Hockey and Vulture both again but I still think they're both town. T3 whiteknight of Hockey is a big factor for him. While, Vulture's 1v1 with Luewarm (assuming I am correct on Luke) is a big factor for him. Which leaves Toogeloo

Wasnt Togeloo in your top 3 towns in 769

Hectic had himself a vision quest this morning

[Pavowski]

This is such a delightful day for me

Luke points out I'm pretty much universally scum read and all of a sudden people are diving off the boat

I wonder what the PT looks like right now

[Pavowski]

Gladiate: Lukewarm

I request you shoot Luke or I today, marci

I'm willing to bet the match there's scum between Luke/Hectic.

Luke's wall in 794 is good, but there's something missing that I'd expect to see if Luke were the town side of this: An acceptance of Hectic's challenge.

Town!Luke should have no problem accepting a him-or-me thunderdome; he knows he's town, he can turn around and shoot Hectic himself if Marci shoots Luke. The fact he doesn't show some willingness to get shot so he can shoot Hectic is a subtle tell.

So I would heartily endorse shooting either Luke or Hectic today, but if it were me, I'd shoot the pirate. It's important to note that you can't lose the game with a bad shot. Hectic's invocation of the thunderdome would actually be scummy if we were at 7 living players.

[Pavowski]

You could totally shoot Enchant and still hit scum 80% of the time btw, marci

I agree but I still want her to shoot you or Luke just so that I can resolve the question of you

Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll be fine. And if you're not, WELP

[Pavowski]

That would be more believable if you told us what you plan to do after you get shot.

[Pavowski]

Given the developments of the past couple pages I thought you might have some updated takes.

So, who would you shoot if it was your call right now?

[Pavowski]

If i receive gun right now, i will randomshot.

Even though i think you are town, i can be wrong, so i really doesn't exclude you from roll.

Before someone call me idiot, it's actually smarter. I am easy to decieve, but that way we have sure 50% chances to shot mafia. Consider me chaos force in this one.

In post 806, Hectic wrote:
You could totally shoot Enchant and still hit scum 80% of the time btw, marci

prob, but if hes town i wouldnt rlly think he would pull out the win

His post above puts me right in that boat with you

I have no experience with Enchant but I definitely can't say his recent posts make him sound towny

I wouldn't want him to be the shot with the game on the line

[Pavowski]

Yes I think enchant is scum, all I'm saying is I'd rather he not be the shot when it's do-or-die time. I'd rather settle Luke/hectic first then, assuming we get a red flip (although if both flipped green that's GG but I think that's near impossible), move on to the enchant question.

Of course that all comes down to Marci but them's my thoughts.

[Pavowski]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

[Pavowski]

I'll speak only for myself, Marci.

The Toog townread is based on the fact that the advice posts (as they've been characterized) encourage you to ignore the input of players who could be bullshitting you in favor of trusting your gut. This feels towny because it probably doesn't benefit scum.

However, their most recent one (don't say where you want to shoot) sorta rubs me the other way, partly because you've expressed you're *not* confident in your reads, and partially because laying out your intent will cause reactions from the group that could help us in the future. They've also played things pretty close to the vest in this game, which to me isn't super pro-town. Then again, this setup is not your standard mafia, so take that with all appropriate grains of salt.

I still think Toog's towny, but to characterize them as locktown is a stretch.

It has been said you should shoot your scummiest read. I'll disagree slightly. You should shoot the person you think is most likely to flip scum. That may not be the same person for you.

If you really aren't sure who will flip scum, shoot somebody who you think, if not scum, is reading people well -- because if you hit town, that person will be shooting for the game.

If you want feedback on your shot, I think Hectic is a good choice. If not scum, I'm fairly confident he'll turn around and shoot Luke, who (if Hectic *is* town), probably flips scum. I'd personally still shoot Luke first, though, between the two. But yes, by all means, trust your gut.

[Pavowski]

You have the benefit of being unable to lose the game on your shot, though, so let that relieve some of your stress

[Pavowski]

Oh it's right there for the taking, PAGE TOP

Too bad I already said everything I have to say for today. Don't second-guess yourself too hard, Marci. Pew pew!

[Pavowski]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

A hero

I'll be here twiddling my thumbs, no way am I gonna put in the effort to dismantle Luke's case/words when I can just shoot him lol

Hectic if you keep shoving me in your pocket I'm gonna bust thru the bottom and trickle down your leg. Stop it or I'm gonna start scum reading you again.

Doing my best to withhold thoughts on that t3 thing but I hate it

[Pavowski]

You have 2 days still.

[Pavowski]

[Pavowski]

You got this Marci. Clear eyes, can't miss

[Pavowski]

But you gotta

[Pavowski]

Take the time you need to feel good - or at least decent - about your shot. I agree with Luke though, thread seems to have stalled until we get another flip.

Use the force or something

[Pavowski]

I was about to try to review the 3 friggin pages you guys posted last night but all I'll say given this is, good shot Marci, I think you'll get another crack at it tomorrow

[Pavowski]

And even if he flips green I don't fault you for shooting there

[Pavowski]

Got em

Marci! You get to shoot again!

[Pavowski]

She doesn't even have spirit, i would shot 30 times already, and that's in first 5 minutes.

But she's alive, and you are not, RIP

[Pavowski]

i was waiting to have time to reread the game, which i did like last night i think? or the night before that, dont remember when, but when i read i got busy right after as well OGHDFJ

i actually was so close to shooting someone else btw i had it typed up but i thought a bit about it and deleted it

Looks like you will still get the chance to shoot that other person

[Pavowski]

i was waiting to have time to reread the game, which i did like last night i think? or the night before that, dont remember when, but when i read i got busy right after as well OGHDFJ

i actually was so close to shooting someone else btw i had it typed up but i thought a bit about it and deleted it

Who?

I like Toogeloo a lot less solely for 935. It becomes a lot more performative when you realise I'd spent the last 2/3 pages talking about how I'm no longer confident on Luke and I'd rather have Enchant shot.

It might be scum getting the last minute bus in seeing the tide is turning against Enchant anyway.

I actually like Hockey's 899 because it feels uninformed and bold to say something like that if you're Enchant's partner

935 does seem to make a Toog /Luke team possible, and that fits with my general feelings on the game even if it wouldn't be my first choice.

Just heading into work but my initial thoughts.

I think, first thing in the morning following a red flip, I could put the two of them in my PoE and feel reasonably good about it, maybe. I do need to read back with scum!enchant in mind, but there isn't a lot to go on from his ISO.

[Pavowski]

Hectic could you explain, like in a condensed manner, why you're suddenly feeling townie about Luke?

[Pavowski]

Suddenly is the wrong word, I think I meant recently, I am trying to do too many things this morning

[Pavowski]

whats wrong with that?

Well... I know I'm town and I've had Luke as damn near locktown since udders had the gun. When people continually push a paranoia agenda that includes me and my biggest town read, I tend to take offense.

Locktown Luke is a bold take

[Pavowski]

Mostly because I looked at his last scumgame and the amount of effort/nuance he's put into this one greatly exceeds it. That's what got me initially doubting myself and why I enquired into his "townslip" further, and his response there was good.

I wouldn't bet my house on it, I'd put maybe a shed on him being scum, and a conservatory on him being town.

Conservatories are pretty nice though, that feels like a pretty good townlean.

First I'm lockscum, now I'm pretty town.

Then you gladiate Luke and now Luke's leaning town.

I am trying to figure out if it makes sense for scum!Hectic to flip-flop like this on two slots in such close proximity. I don't think it does.

[Pavowski]

Hockey, can you come hit the puck around a bit?

Your post-shot silence and opting to post in other games is giving bullet shivers.

Hi hello, my solve is the same, stll think Toog is town. I looked through Vultures logs a bit and they /seem/ town enough for them to be town

Maybe my read on Pav did involve a bit bias of the consenous read on him, and if u want me to really re-eval him, i could do so, but I think hes town based on his interactions with u 2

So your PoE would necessarily be Luke and Hectic (and possibly me)?

[Pavowski]

I'm a bit less confident there's scum between Luke and Hectic than I was a few days ago, but I'll slap my mama if they're a team

[Pavowski]

I'm a bit less confident there's scum between Luke and Hectic than I was a few days ago, but I'll slap my mama if they're a team

Well do you have a surprise coming for you.

Are you implying that I'm gonna have to slap my mama?

[Pavowski]

I think that my solve atm is

One of [Hockey+Hectic] + Vulture

Yep. And really, the only reason I keep putting Hectic back on the table in my mind is because he keeps suggesting you and I are in the solve.

Hockey, can you come hit the puck around a bit?

Your post-shot silence and opting to post in other games is giving bullet shivers.

Hi hello, my solve is the same, stll think Toog is town. I looked through Vultures logs a bit and they /seem/ town enough for them to be town

Maybe my read on Pav did involve a bit bias of the consenous read on him, and if u want me to really re-eval him, i could do so, but I think hes town based on his interactions with u 2

So your PoE would necessarily be Luke and Hectic (and possibly me)?

yes, but I think you can stay town for now. like im super fking conflicted because I dont think thier partners but other ppl are town to me. maybe i should re-attempt to read vulture when i get on PC

Luke + Toog think it's 2 of Vulture, [Hockey/Hectic]

Hockey thinks it's Luke, Hectic

Vulture thinks it's Luke, Toog (please correct me if I'm wrong, that was your last reads list a while back unless I missed one)

Not 100% sure where Hectic is but I think Toog + Hockey?

Nobody seems to have me in their POE right now, which is an unusual feeling

Me, my POE would be Luke -> Hockey -> Toog right this minute

What a cluster. Marci it's your shot obviously, but I'm not envying you at the mo

[Pavowski]

Hi hello Sorry, Im here. I looked through Vultures iso in regards to t3/enchant and dont think they are partners

I don't know that anybody looks especially like partners with enchant. He's done scum that favor at least.

Meanwhile this is Hockey's second post in as many pages like he's forgotten about this game. Sounds disingenuous to me. The first time somebody asked him a question at least. This time it feels like "oof I'd better post something" but there's no substance here.

[Pavowski]

(town town ready is how I'm saying it at least for the rest of this game)

(I'm trying to avoid phon roosting myself)

[Pavowski]

No. I still think he leans scum, but a big part of that is I still think there's scum in (hectic, Luke) and I think hectic is more likely the TTR side of that

Maybe 70-30 there

[Pavowski]

what do u think about hockey

Also lean scum there

[Pavowski]

Hectic and Vulture.

Toog is firmly in the middle.

Hockey and Luke first in my POE.

[Pavowski]

Who, me or Hectic?

I've been TRing that slot for a while, like since he and Luke were head-to-head. I just simultaneously think shooting him is not a bad idea, especially since we have misses to give and I think he *could* be fleecing me, though I kinda don't think he is.

[Pavowski]

This game really drags

Quicker days might make more sense. 72 hours maybe.

Then again Enchant's flip did very little to change the state of the game except for give us more cushion.

[Pavowski]

Given the clusterfrack of overlapping votes I'd say you have two options if you don't trust yourself to make a good decision:

Take the person you townread the most and sheep their POE
Or pull an Enchant and shoot at random

I lied, there are 3 options, you could also just shoot Luke on principle

[Pavowski]

Still thinking about how you said I'd have to slap my mama

[Pavowski]

If everybody who gets the gun shoots scum then shoots town, we win. (This is what Galron did, and in the worst case, it's what you'll do. Best case you hit red again and get a 3rd shot!) You've done your part Marci, don't sweat the next shot too much

The game's a little stalled though because most of us have made our reads and Enchant's flip didn't really change much there since he was kinda on an island in this game. Anyway, you really can't make a bad shot here. As Luke said even if you hit green the next person isn't shooting for the game. Make your best assessment and fire away!

[Pavowski]

So who wants to talk first?

[Pavowski]

I'll do it. Need to marinate on this a little but on the surface I don't think my PoE changes much here (Luke, Toog). Hockey lining up to hipfire Luke feels all right I think, even though if Luke is town he'll be shooting to keep the town alive.

It just feels like so little was said on d4 that it's kinda hard to say what has changed or what should change. I need to read back a bit, maybe.

[Pavowski]

Game becomes trickier in that case as I'm gonna have to revisit my townreads on hectic / vulture. I still think Toog could flip red but wouldn't surprise me if they flipped green either.

If Luke flips green the question is whether I've been taken in by 1 person or 2.

If I go with my gut right now, on a green Luke flip the new, confused me would be looking the hardest at Toog and Hectic.

[Pavowski]

I think Hockey should hipfire at you, we're at a point in the game state that you being fired at is healthy.

Not sure why but the way Toog phrased this is cracking me up.

Then again it makes me hesitate on saying Luke/Toog is the scum team here. I don't see why scum!Toog would casually endorse shooting their partner.

So to add to my previous post, regardless of how Luke flips I would want to look a little harder at Toog.

[Pavowski]

To go further further I know the past couple days have dragged on a bit, and I like a quick shot to get the game moving again, but don't rush the shot either. I'd want to hear from the group before making a shot... If I were scum here and saw you announcing intent to shoot less than 24 hours on, after claiming you'd hipfire somebody I knew to be green, I'd just kick back and wait to post until after you made the shot.

[Pavowski]

I'm not currently scum reading him, but a green Luke flip would force me to reevaluate that.

[Pavowski]

A green flip on Luke kinda forces me to reevaluate *everything*. Right now I'm TTR on Vulture and Hectic, scum on Luke / Toog.

However given Toog's recent posts I'm less sold on a Luke / Toog team, so there's that... but also if Luke does flip green it means the remaining 2 scum are necessarily in Toog, Vulture, and Hectic. (FMPOV of course)

If I'm right about Toog, then I'm 1 for 1 on Vulture and Hectic being town and need to ferret that out ... if I'm wrong on Toog then I'm wrong on everything, which kinda feels like home!

[Pavowski]

I kinda forgot that was a hanging question I had for her x.x

I too was a bit frustrated by the lack of thoughts from Marci =\ I get playing it close to the vest as the gunbearer but I think that's a big part of what made the last couple days stall out

I think the gunbearer has the ability if not the obligation to kinda drive the action, and that doesn't necessarily mean shooting.

But I guess that's more discussion for the postgame at this point...

[Pavowski]

I think my read on Hectic is pretty straightforward. I was TRing him as Art, then he slid into scum territory as one of the ones putting the most pressure on me waaaay back on d2 (I think?). It felt scum-motivated to me at the time, but over time as scum reading me caught on with the group I figured it may have been less so.

But right around that time he reversed course on me and followed it up with his whole gladiate with Luke.

The gladiate itself would strike me as a bold play for scum (1 for 1 is hardly a good trade in this setup), but add to that: if he's scum, why reverse course on me? Once again he seems to have driven the pack on me, but this time to a general consensus townlean.

Not saying it's impossible for him to be scum but this is some pretty big brain scum play if so.

[Pavowski]

RIP Marci.

Uh... I said I would try to get back into this but my reads remain.

The only weird thing is what Hockey pointed out about Luke / me because a green flip should set off alarm bells in his head given the dynamic we have had this game.

I don’t know if he’s writing that off as a thing because he scumreads Luke or what have you.

I probably end up at Pav/Toog if Luke is town fwiw. I haven’t read back deeply through how Luke and Hectic interacted and the flipping around of reads there though so it’s subject to change. If Luke is scum which is where I’m at then it’s probably just Toog for me atm.

What does the bolded mean? Are you trying to anti-pair yourself with Luke? seems kinda odd?

Also, the progression of peoples reads on Hectic is so ???. Like people hard trd him, started shading him a bit, and then back to him not being in your poe. like wtf. i think hectic is town BECAUSE of this

Oh, I meant Pav instead of you I think. I was phoneposting.

It's more that when you look at a game and see two people thunderdoming for a good portion of it and one flips town, you... should instinctually look to the other to see what they saw? Like, you know they were acting in good faith and if you're not reconsidering that would be strange to me.

I humbly request that you reformulate that post because I am very confused on how you mean for it to be read.

[Pavowski]

I am shooting within the next 7 hours.

**Checks Watch**

My earlier comment on this is pretty much retracted as I think everybody's at least spoken now. Blast off if you're feelin' it, Hockey, you can do eet

[Pavowski]

I was gonna snag #1100 too but I thought nah, I've pagetopped enough in this game

[Pavowski]

Yeah that's the list of survivors right now. But Luke are you town? Angel won't turn the day over until like 3 am lol

[Pavowski]

Now give me a gun, so I can promptly shoot Pav

The dream

I hope not

[Pavowski]

It kinda looks like a scumclaim

Lol that's how I read it but looks like Hockey read it the other way

[Pavowski]

Dammit hectic with the ninja pagetop.

At any rate I'm totally willing to be shot now (we'll have what, 2 misses to give?) Just because I have gun envy now, but yeah, no, don't do it for the lolz, give us time to read back. Scum!Luke is crafty but I wanna see if he left any partner tells.

But it's late now so gl on the flip dudes

[Pavowski]

Well, if I'm shot, I will be shooting Pav.

VOTE: Toog

[Pavowski]

In the case of Luke-scum, pretty sure this is a sure win as long as Pav

isn't

shot under any circumstances

We can literally shoot all but 1 person

Last one tonight I promise. Scum doesn't try to townlock anybody right here imo

Shoot the bird or the panda.

Actually...

Well, if I'm shot, I will be shooting Pav.

Maybe shoot the bird

I am up too late, good night

[Pavowski]

Meh. In all seriousness, the final scum is Hectic. I just wanted the chance to shoot him myself.

Can you square this conclusion with my 1133 and 1090?

Seriously if hectic is scum he's got to survive til the final 3, and he's encouraging us to get to that position and then leave somebody who isn't him alive.

[Pavowski]

Would've loved to weigh in before the next shot but hectics strategy is sound and it's a winner, I don't think he's scum though.

Nice one nailing Luke tho hockey

[Pavowski]

Welp somehow I missed Angels update on hectic shot, whee.

Hectic don't rush it! Let's win it this round

[Pavowski]

I’ll do Pav + Marci + Luke I guess.

Digging back on Vultures iso. That rule of 3 thing comes to mind...

[Pavowski]

But in 780 he scum reads enchant as well. Bussing 2 partners? Feels unlikely

[Pavowski]

In 829 he clearly lists his solve as Luke/Enchant/Toog. Why bus 2 partners?1, sure, but 2?

[Pavowski]

Toog has been deliberately cagey about reads most of the game, while always making a point to remind us that the gunbearer shouldn't trust anybody's reads and that if he gets the gun he might not shoot where we think he will.

This is a low-key echo of Enchant's threat to randomly shoot if he gets the gun, which he used to try to dissuade shooting him. It's cleverer here but the parallel is hard to ignore.

Toog has also consistently given Luke as a strong townread even when basically nobody else did in the last few game days. It pinged me weird when he said it (phone posting ATM and lost track of the post number) and it smells funny now with a red Luke flip.

[Pavowski]

The bug in the batter is that from the go, Toog has been begging to get shot.

For scum!Toog this is prob a good tactic in early rounds as it is safe to shoot wrong a few times. I'm not sure it's as good a tactic at this stage of the game but backing off it would probably look worse.

Interestingly both enchant and Luke were begging for the gun on d1 (I can't remember if t3 was as well, again I'm phone posting) and I don't as clearly remember other players doing the same. Certainly not being as cavalier about it.

[Pavowski]

I should probably try to read vulture from a scum perspective and Toog from a town perspective but based on the game thus far I'd shoot Toog before vulture right now if it were me, heckpants

Done spamming, sorry about that.

[Pavowski]

If town loses after being at 4 town to 1 scum I'm gonna start drinking again

[Pavowski]

Man, Hectic, I wish I felt good about the call but I really could go either way on Toog/Vulture.

Vulture feels townier to me overall but I'm willing to believe it could be a front. I don't love his recent withdrawal from the game but I also hate to make a call like this based on something like that ... RL is a thing after all. I do have issues reading him as scum given his recent reads on the scumteam. As I pointed out in 1156 I really don't see why he'd bus 2 of his scum buddies. Then again, if he's town, that would mean he nailed all 3 scum when there were what -- 8 people left alive in the game? Not impossible, but unlikely, right?

I can't point to anything nearly as concrete with Toog. As you've pointed out, the things Toog's been townread for in this game (was it you who called them "advice columns" lol) could just as easily come from scum, being more like takes on the setup than on the actual game and the players. Not that there haven't been takes on players.

My gut still leans me more towards Toog on this one, which is weird. Of the two, it feels like, if town, Toog is more likely to turn and shoot me than Vulture would be, and that would be bad.

Kinda feels like a paradox given your suggested strategy (which Toog is now expressing a willingness to hear, by the way, so +town points for that) of just having everybody shoot away from me. The person less likely to follow your strategy seems like the one who should get gunned first.

I kinda feel like all I've done here is repackage what I already posted in my spam series up there ^^^ but after noodling on it a bit, I haven't moved a lot.

I am curious what Vulture thinks of the "don't shoot Pav" idea; we haven't heard from the bird in a bit.

[Pavowski]

I’ll do Pav + Marci + Luke I guess.

Digging back on Vultures iso. That rule of 3 thing comes to mind...

It's fun but probably not extremely productive, let's place our bets though

I reckon Pavowski + Enchant + Lukewarm

Marci + Vulture + Pav

Just reading back a little. I had flagged this post when I was considering scum!Luke. I am sitting here trying to figure out what to make of it. These are like 30 posts apart.

[Pavowski]

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

Toog is town. I see where vulture has proven toog to be wrong. But toog is town

TF is this. I remembered Toog townreading Luke but had forgotten this going the other way. This is, like, clumsy as hell if it's Luke trying to clear a partner. But is Luke that clumsy? I don't think so.

[Pavowski]

Weeeeelllll last time I came up against scum!Luke and tried to find his partner in Luke's iso, he took me on a wild ride and I miselim'd town into a real bad loss so I dunno if I want to trust myself on this

Luke is cackling as he reads me here I'm certain

[Pavowski]

Reviewing a bunch of Luke/vulture interactions starting around 580 against my better judgment.

[Pavowski]

Any of you guys ever get that feeling like you're talking to yourself?

No?

Just me?

[Pavowski]

Hectic, at this point here's what I think you should do:

I'd make your case for why you think I'm a townlock (I'd do it but personally I never find that kind of stuff convincing coming from the person in question) and then just shoot Toog.

If he's scum (as seems likeliest to me) we win. If not, well, he's been calling for the gun so he can shoot his reads for the entire game, you'll know he's been acting in good faith, and we'll hope he'll take you in good faith too.

I do have nagging doubts that scum!Vulture could just be lurking at this point, but if that's the case I'll be counting on Toog to sniff that out.

Also, don't count me out of the pagetop race.

[Pavowski]

I'm diving into ISOs on Toog and Vulture today since I have a bit of unexpected time.

Fresh eyes on this stuff given 3 scum flips should give us something, right?

Toog first since my guts and my current thinking on the game has me leaning there.

How about this:

Last thing I'm going to say is that I have a very slight suspicion that T3 scum slipped a partner, but I'd need T3 to flip scum first before I divulge my suspicion and why. If I had the gun, I'd just shoot T3 and then follow up with the second shot if I was right.

Followed by this:

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

If this is scumtheatre, it's pretty good scumtheatre imo

[Pavowski]

He turns out to have missed the note on Hectic/Art there but I don't think that's the kind of mistake scum!Toog would make.

Then, there's the buddying with Luke:

Oh, and I like Luke for town. I'm pickin' up good vibrations, he's giving me excitations.

Luke is a saint though, and I would never shoot there.

I'm at Hectic + Enchant as well, and I've started coming around to Pav-town. I like your solve, Luke.

Yes I think enchant is scum, all I'm saying is I'd rather he not be the shot when it's do-or-die time. I'd rather settle Luke/hectic first then, assuming we get a red flip (although if both flipped green that's GG but I think that's near impossible), move on to the enchant question.

Of course that all comes down to Marci but them's my thoughts.

This reflects my thoughts exactly, though in my mind I've pretty much concluded that Enchant must be scum in any combination of remaining three. However I'm not willing to put what might be the final shot of the game in their hands.

I strongly feel Luke and Pavowski are town here, and think any shot outside these two has high scum equity.

Interestingly on the last 2, he switches from finding me scummy to finding me towny. So he's consistent on Luke, but he waffles on me.

[Pavowski]

Almost done:

Well, if I'm shot, I will be shooting Pav.

Meh. In all seriousness, the final scum is Hectic. I just wanted the chance to shoot him myself.

These are 5 posts apart, and one intervening post is his own.

And finally this:

Well, if you are going to hinge the whole game on, "As long as we don't shoot Pav," we're going to need to know exactly why.

There was a point in the game where some were saying I was 100% town and never should be shot, yet here we are.

I've made few missteps in this game, and been fooled by a read or two. Maybe you are a better judge than me. You should still do it because if you miss, the person taking the next shot should be at least understanding your reasoning.

Toog is all over the map with regards to me, which would feel like a flat-out towny thing to be, except for the earlier posts saying things like this:

Not gonna lie. My whole goal this game has been to get shot, and my posted reads aren't really things anyone should take seriously because I might do something completely different.

It's stuff like this that makes it impossible to give Toog a clean town read.

(Also I realized in this post I've been using "he" for Toog instead of "they", my apologies for that)

[Pavowski]

Closing thoughts on Toog:

Toog is very clearly cognizant of meta and common scum tells. For example, Toog references the rule of 3 a bit, and points out that Luke played into it:

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

I'm townreading t3 which makes me nervous and makes me think I should be scum reading him.

If I read Marci on this game alone I'd peg her as scummy, but Marci here does not feel like scum!Marci as I've seen her. I dunno if I'd shoot there.

Hockey I'm not sure about. Initial impression was scummy but if he's scum it's a pretty lazy effort.

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like. Gonna review d1 when I get back to my laptop.

This was the post that I hated the most from Pav.

Interestingly, that quote capture by Luke does fulfill the rule of 3, lol.

But then there's this which, fits the rule of 3 for scum!Toog

I'm not willing to bet there is one scum in Hectic/Luke. My concern is that Marci shoots Hectic and he is town, and then he shoots Luke who is also town.

I've been toiling around with the possibility that the scum team is Enchant, Hockey, and Vulture for the past 24 hours.

I'd rather Marci shoot me then Hectic or Luke since I would probably shoot Enchant, then Hockey, and then hash out the final shot after that if I'm right.

I feel like I WIFOM myself right into the ground with everything in regards to Toog, but on balance after doing the ISO dive I'm less sold that Toog needs to be shot right here.

[Pavowski]

Vulture's ISO is harder for me to parse. A lot of it is asking questions rather than voicing opinions, which taken a certain way looks like good scumhunting. It's also a little hard to deal with the ISO since it's rare for Vulture to quote somebody, it's all just organic responses to recent posts in thread.

Then when Vulture does post takes and opinions it's often *very* hedgey (see 780, it's long so I'm not going to quote it here). I understand me calling out another player for hedging is pot+kettle to say the least, but it is what it is. In that post, though, we do get this:

In any case, I'm currently at Luke + Enchant + Pav / Toog (?)

which, A, breaks the rule of 3 (I pointed out earlier, why bus 2 scum partners at the same time?), and B, is in direct violation of how he thinks scum would be acting in this game:

Also, I disagree with the idea that scum are pushing their partners for cred. Why would they be pushing each other right now when they're close to winning and it's an easier path to just get some misshots versus cutting down their own numbers? Shrug emoji. Going off of this I then saw the 'oh I wanted the gun all game...' posting as WIFOM-y but I'm not 100% on Toog so shrug emoji again.

Of course, that too could be WIFOM -- posit a strategy the scum team "ought" to be following, then, as scum, do the opposite.

And then of course there's the whole withdrawing from game thing. I won't say this is definitive, that would be very risky. But: put RL aside (and I do hope everything is ok with Vulture right now, whatever the circumstances). Sometimes if scum is outnumbered by a lot the best thing to do is to sit back, say nothing, and let the louder/more active voices in the thread tear each other to pieces. As Toog has pointed out, at this point in the game, scum has to avoid getting shot twice. Lying low is probably a decent enough way to dodge the first bullet.

[Pavowski]

Congrats Hectic, I tried to help and talked myself right back into almost a 50/50 again, you can thank me later.

Actually I might -- *might* -- lean more toward shooting the bird right this very minute. But I would wait til they posted more tonight, if I were you, to see their take on where we're at right now.

And if he doesn't, make with the pew pew

[Pavowski]

That's interesting. So how do you read Vulture and me based on beginning and early statements?

[Pavowski]

I suggest you shoot Galron Art or Vulture unless someone develops a strong opinion against that.

Hmm

[Pavowski]

Ya know Luke said it before Hockey shot his face off but I am really curious why Marci was confident Vulture was scum.

[Pavowski]

That's kinda my playstyle, though. In the beginning I'm always nervous to express reads and get involved, so I hang back more. (This may be why I get scumread a lot.) The longer I survive the more I come on.

Pretty sure that's true for all my games on site, as scum and town, so *shrug*

[Pavowski]

I also don't love it when games go quiet so I just start spouting, lol.

[Pavowski]

Yeah, I'm moving soon, so I've been doing a lot of packing and house work to setup showing for my current home, and the market is ridiculous right now, so when I'm not working, I'm doing other things.
Plus my kids just started school, and I've had to do a lot of things for them.

I'm so ready for the calm to return.

Spoiler:

Oof, I went through that a few years ago, so I feel your pain.

Lean Town
Hectic
Enchant

Nullish
Togg
Vulture
Hockey (^^)

Lean Scum
Pav (v v)
Marci
T3

Does Luke list two scum when Galron first gets the gun?

Obviously my PoV is different from yours. From where I stand there's 1 scumpartner in each category, and that feels very Luke to me.

[Pavowski]

Town: Pav, Hockey, Luke
Lean town: Toog, Enchant
Null: Vulture
Lean scum: marci
Scum: Art
I think I forgot someone but I forgot who.

Does T3 town read all his partners? Something interesting about this is that earlier in T3's iso, is that he heavily cases and metadives Vulture, even indicating possible scum reads. Why is the slot listed null. I might need to go back and reread the whole interaction that goes from scum!vulture posts earlier to null: vulture.

If it's not Vulture, then T3 put every partner in a town read category.

That does seem pretty bold.

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Vulture

Put this game to bed, Mario

[Pavowski]

Actually belay that. The quiet is giving me time to noodle on this and I want to game it out some more

[Pavowski]

Oh heck I borked the pagetop

[Pavowski]

Okay. Possible scenarios. This is an exploration of my paranoia, btw, as I'm envisioning all the ways this game could still go wrong. I'm assuming for the purposes of this post that I'm a townlock for you Hectic (as seems to be the situation) and that you continue to believe that as long as I don't get shot, the game can't be lost.

In that case, if Toog is town, then Vulture is scum, and vice versa.

If you shoot Toog, and Toog is town, Toog is now claiming he'd turn around and shoot Vulture. This supports your current solve of the game, as even if it's a bad shot, he's thinking like you are on my slot, which gets us to a win. (Assuming he's telling the truth, which he seems to be.) A Toog shot is, therefore, safe.

If you shoot Vulture, I'm less confident Vulture turns the gun on Toog. I do think, though, that scum!Toog can make some good-sounding arguments to at least make Vulture consider shooting me, even if he isn't currently. A Vulture shot, then, is less safe. (Unless the bird wants to come back and give us some final thoughts on this situation.)

This is all contingent on Toog's recent decision to join the town!Pav side. If he's lying, he's scum trying to dodge the bullet this round and make it to ELO (where anything can happen!). If he's telling the truth, he'll shoot scum on the last day. Either way, it's a win.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vulture is the last scum here. But if you're locked in on my slot, I think you might consider shooting Toog to ensure a town win even if the final shot is out of your hands.

The panda has been calling for the gun the entire game, after all.

[Pavowski]

And the sooner you shoot the sooner I can shut up and quit talking myself in circles on these two

[Pavowski]

Oh you tease

[Pavowski]

Not that I want to poke holes in your argument in my favor, but I do have another scum game that is not worth bragging about. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=87122

Actually I dunno how indicative it is of my play as scum. This is the game I referenced where Marci and I were teamed, and things went sideways for us pretty fast after what felt like a pretty good d1.

You're right, though, I'm a true newbie, this is my sixth game.

[Pavowski]

You know, I'm just saying, it's out there. And I desperately need a scum win on my ledger.

Fook it, dude. Let's go bowling. I think this is a win.

[Pavowski]

I'm gonna have to wait til the morning for the flip, aren't I =\

[Pavowski]

Not gonna lie. I poked around on the wiki and saw that Toog has a scary high win rate as scum and I was very nervous if Vulture flipped town.

Nice shooting Hectic and GG all!

[Pavowski]

I dunno. I think the game could easily have gone down to the final 3. It was legit almost a coin flip between Toog and vulture for me. I figured if hectic shot Toog it would be a win, but if Vulture flipped town I was way less confident since I had basically stopped trying to look town when Hectic townlocked me.

[Pavowski]

i am not going to lie but this is a hard setup for scum. I only saw 1 out of 4 games scum has won this setup. It takes a lot of fooling to convenience gun-bearers to shoot town.

You're probably right, I think best chance for scum is a fast-paced game and a win before town has a chance to find its feet.

[Pavowski]

You played well Vulture. I was pretty sure you were town from the midgame right up until Hectic got the gun, and even then I could have gone either way.

[Pavowski]

Sounds good Gamma, I'm signed up for a couple right now

[Pavowski]

When hectic was given the gun, I saw a chance for Hectic to shoot Toog and Toog to shoot Pav. But then Toog and Pav just kept posting when Vulture wasn't able to be on, and that window to victory closed :/

I was fearful of exactly this.

I realized that the more Toog and I posted back and forth, the less I thought the panda was scum. At some point I became aware that even if he was scum, I was leaning townier on the slot over time just by virtue of the banter. If Vulture had been a part of the banter, I wonder...

[Pavowski]

Interesting Luke. I can see your thinking there.

Off topic, this has been my favorite game so far on site. I joked about Hectic having a vision quest when he switched up his reads midgame, but I had one of my own. Basically this is like the 3rd game I've had as town where I just started getting scum reads on me and I couldn't figure out why. It was seriously stressing me out. But at a certain point - I guess it was when Luke pointed out the entire lobby was scum reading me - I just said hell with it,if my play gets me scum read I might as well have fun with it.

A relaxed Pav is a more fun Pav whether I'm winning or not. Let's see if that holds up next time I roll scum...