open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Kaiji]

to skitter: if you ARE by some miracle a townie - your job here is to deep dive my slot and actually read and show your work on why your read is the way it is

You will come to the conclusion of town if you do this correctly. I do not care how you feel about this request - I am simply telling you how to save this game if you are town. that is all I can do in the case that you are town and we end up losing because of a TvT mutual tunnel.

As is - I see compelling evidence between how you treated my slot, enchant/pooky slot, and varying levels of what seems like TMI on datisi's slot, and a generally lack of solviness as reason to continue FOSing you. I *am* reading your iso and i see small things that make me doubt in that they look like genuine reads, but nothing that doesnt preclude TMI reads + how the gamestate is set in terms of what the votecount/general consensus looks like etc. (just basically stuff that is like not overwhelmingly alignment indicative as town because of the fact that the gamestate wasn't in a position where it wasn't unsafe to do so as scum)

to add onto the top - You also need to find and case a person as scum outside of me. Similarly to how I am in a position where I did some sus looking shit and am busting ass to make up for it - your position in the gamestate is similar and the expectation is the same.

[Kaiji]

I only extend this because of a situation in SCP upick where I misread LLD slot because she was blatantly wrong on everything and tried to coast on her claim and i ended up FOSing her slot in the end because of it(she replaced out) and scum won because of it.


I entertain ALL options in ELo/MeLo as should you if you are town.

[Kaiji]

I only extend this because of a situation in SCP upick where I misread LLD slot because she was blatantly wrong on everything and tried to coast on her claim and i ended up FOSing her slot in the end because of it(she replaced out) and scum won because of it.


I entertain ALL options in ELo/MeLo as should you if you are town.

for context - she had a 0/3 read on day 2, claimed vig, and pretended she was clear in a game where a scum vig did fit in the setup.

[Kaiji]

WHY is cat town ... i asked you like 3x now ... ?
and i'm not as sus of dats as i am of cat

skitter - what happened to catboi scumread btw?

surely just a guilty from a confirmed scum when both slots were getting pressure at the time isn't 100% clearing to you, right?

[Kaiji]

and now i see that andante is saying catboi is town and i trust town!her's townreads - she very rarely townreads scum(which is annoying from a scum perspective thus I've killed her b4)

[Kaiji]

@catboi from my pov if mena is venegeful that makes you or dats the vig

And from your pov that makes dats the vig (or me i suppose)

wondering what happened from this progression

[Kaiji]

Im thinking we flip mena.

I think mena claimed cop to implicate me if scum and his flip will help resolve skitter too if town

btw my initial reaction to the cop claim ^^ because i had mentioned mena potentially claiming cop results and i was like ?? tf

[Kaiji]

it really do be funny that skitter tries to push me as scum for bad takes on mena slot when she was soft defending him all of d3 until it was certain most people were scumreading his slot

i do wish i wasn't the only one reading this game as a whole

[Kaiji]

I mean i dont trust that but ok

I do think catboi's shift in mode is rather +town

after a page of several people saying "yeah we dont believe this BS claim"

after she pushed catboi pretty hard.

[Kaiji]

Catboi mena is not svs

maybe i should just trust past me

but i'll keep to myself who i'm reevaling back to as my primary suspect.

[Kaiji]

as someone who was heavily hinting at mena being possible cop i feel that the reason mena is now a claimed cop is an attempt to tie me harder to the slot and use me as the gamewinning mislim and that alone makes me want to resolve mena first

it do be nice to have receipts

[Kaiji]

i still want to vote sleep

optimal for 2 reasons:

n3 scum vig may exist

catboi/mena is a 50/50 and scum have to risk more investigatives if catboi is in the scum half(i still acknowledge it can be SvS btw but then mena has to out another result which complicates the gamestate from their POV if they are scum)

thoughts:

andante/skitter unaligned

mena/skitter aligned for sure in scum mena world

SS/skitter aligned


so if mena scum

go skitter->SS


the fact i dont know where to go though from catboi scum is a sign that its probably wrong

actually
VOTE: Mena

andante and skitter also unaligned

DA RECEIPTS DOE

[Kaiji]

see when i was self towncasing myself i did no rereading and me having all this in my ISO that makes me look good and not reference it directly and in a moreso vague way shows i was genuinely working from memory.

[Kaiji]

actually my whole play like before i flip over onto catboi is like hard trying to convince everyone the solve is mena + skitter so get lost people trying to tell me i tried to save mena!slot

[Kaiji]

that is how my scum plan works in *reverse*

I push enough suspicion onto a townie by hardpushing them and then when most people are on that side, I flip the other way to something else to make it look like I was on the right side of the wagon and escape with my hands clean.

[Kaiji]

so basically its a shit plan and does nothing for me.

I just go all in on the bus there or all in on the no lim.

[Kaiji]

skitter post real reads challenge (impossible)(because she is scum)

andante catboi
dats kaiji
ss mare
alyssa
mena

eh actually put catboi one down

IMO -> this was a slip because of how high catboi was placed and thats why the rectification right away like "oh fuck i was pushing catboi all day and now theyre lock town level i shouldnt have done that"

because i made them post reads under pressure

[Kaiji]

hammer ur partner

skitter had a chance to hammer enchant - they did not here and stalled.

i was pushing to end day here.

[Kaiji]

UNVOTE:

in a scum alyssa world idk if enchant is scum here so let me look


also catboi twiddling his thumbs is not feeling great to me either


skitter has exhibited effort to solve which honestly atp i wanna sort by WIM

im tossing all my reads away

we are starting from scratch.

atp i think the only person im willing to clear is andante

but not as sure anymore if its a town!enchant world.

vibe solve if we assume enchant flips town:

Catboi/Alyssa/Mare

Enchant flips scum:

Enchant/Skitter/SS


outside of this is:

Andante/Datisi

i do not feel that catboi is very concerned with the guilty because from their pov this is a huge revelation that helps him solve better but instead he is also twiddling thumbs. he is on the site often and yet does not care to visit this game.

yeah ...........................

when the tinfoil finally sets in

the fact i solved enchant as town from an alyssa scum pov makes me believe that slot is town here still.

[Kaiji]

deadass I do not have the energy for this game today

i have unlimited energy. ama.

[Kaiji]

I am mostly lost as to where the discussion around no elimination is going

I guess I should be looking at other things I just find playing mafia mostly aggravating right now

changed my mind on no lim

VOTE: catboi

i dont care about snipes about what im posting

post original content

u have 1 conf scum from your pov, where is the indication that you are solving anything from that pov

That's not a snipe, it's a question ffs

I am trying to get your perspective

solve or die

[Kaiji]

idk the fact that I correctly townread both Andante and Mare off really simple things and maintained them pretty much up to their deaths is pretty much enough for me

i wasn't tinfoiling your slot as scum here, i'm moreso returning to a previous solve I think is correct.

[Kaiji]

I feel like i shouldnt until we get galron's claim tho >.>

Pedit >.> this game

[Kaiji]

also is there any reason whatsoever for me to engage into datisi here

if he's legit scum like I still think is more likely than not, then it's just going to devolve into a nonsense back and forth drowning out the game and just remove any efficacy my points on him have

I think Datisi is spewed town off Skitter scum here.

[Kaiji]

oop i revealed my hand early

[Kaiji]

I just dont think i'm condident enuf to vote enchant rn, and i'm not going to be in the next 10 minutes

VOTE: no-lim

hmm,?

[Kaiji]

whiplash

[Kaiji]

hammer ur partner

skitter had a chance to hammer enchant - they did not here and stalled.

i was pushing to end day here.

I'm indecisive and hate hammering, esp in a potential elo situation. Feel free to look at ... basically any game i was in in elo in to verify that. I always spend abt 10 thousand years being indecisive and not wanting to commit until the last possible moment

Whereas, again, as scum, i am very much aware of optics and how i'd look after the flip of a partner. This is not now i'd treat a partner, and i would not spend 2 weeks dilly-dally-ing knowing he's inevitably getting flipped and knowing how i'd look afterwards. That's just not how i play scum when i have all the answers
When i dont have all the answers i dont have perfect trajectory and look bad, sure

Id argue gaining a mislim without getting your hands particularly dirty is a benefit however, especially if your partner can stick it out deep

[Kaiji]

Ill wait on catboi reaction first.

[Kaiji]

skitter pulling this arguement after calling me scum for how i treated enchant is actaully kinda hmm tho

[Kaiji]

skitter pulling this arguement after calling me scum for how i treated enchant is actaully kinda hmm tho

what is the this argument

An actual good one

[Kaiji]

You see why do i assume people read games in the same capacity as me lol

Skitter just self cased saying how they would have full busssd enchant/mena rather than how they did treat the slot but it was scummy how i did it last dayphase?

In addition i believe the benefit was for Skitter to make sure enchant slot doesnt go over yet, earning 1 mislim is worth being viewed as scummy because its still arguable.

[Kaiji]

What happened before that, skitter, or did you forget?

I literally directly asked you to hammer enchant. And you refused.

I got tinfoil brain

[Kaiji]

I doubt you forget that i requested you specifically hammer enchant while knowing i pushed catboi only half the day

While i did forget my end of that interaction it feels odd you forgot your end.

[Kaiji]

VOTE: skitter

[Kaiji]

This latest "alyssa scum" angle is just frankly, embarassing. Alyssa just goes with consensus of pushing me and it could be gg+ it silences me.

[Kaiji]

I'll give you one from a recently completed scumgame of mine(i'm machop):

[Kaiji]

glaceon is dwlee and pony is andante and nightmarex is Ahri

[Kaiji]

i feel like the "your first vote is final" (assuming it literally means that you can make only one vote the entire day) is significant enough to be mentioned here, but like. yeah.

that's just a modbot glitch because the game ended in a scum win in ELo where votes were locked, they were not locked on D1

[Kaiji]

i'm more or less settled here because of your d1 interactions with pooky and your mena treatment d2/d3 yeah.

I'm having a hard time seeing your arguments for flow/alyssa mafia.

while i did not expect on the list of things scum skitter to do is to start townreading me - it isn't enough to completely 180 - can you explain what is different between last day and today that you are claiming I am town?


I do not think the vig thing was even AI, I just wanted to use it against you as a point but I wanna throw it away because its a silly thing that i would have faked as scum anyways - I want to know what other reasons you have to flip your read that you may have maybe even picked up on after changing read based on that incorrect reason.

[Kaiji]

i feel like the "your first vote is final" (assuming it literally means that you can make only one vote the entire day) is significant enough to be mentioned here, but like. yeah.

that's just a modbot glitch because the game ended in a scum win in ELo where votes were locked, they were not locked on D1

okay, that makes more sense, i was wondering what in fresh hell is the nonsense of locking votes on day 1

i still think the end-of-day-1 vc being that is not definitive proof of anything, because i'd need to actually read the game to see if there was a deadline scramble and how bit was it, but no way am i doing that just to play a devil's advocate for a point that doesn't seem *too* significant

i'm telling you there was a deadline scramble, unless you think I am making things up for fun

[Kaiji]

mafiauniverse games often have a "final half hour" scramble so those games are nice to draw on to see what is expected in a scramble.

[Kaiji]

the fact scum was well positioned for so long this game should make it easily plausible that d1 wagons can be mostly town.

[Kaiji]

i would have to see for myself because i have a feeling you're at least partially biased here

more like i know because i was scum in that game that helped set up an all town scramble, among even the best town players in our community lol

[Kaiji]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost5626206

here is a direct link to the d1 flip post there, you can see how votecounts changed too by clicking the voote history button here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/mo ... me_id=4741

[Kaiji]

Why does that make skitter town too

[Kaiji]

I want catboi to play the game here.

[Kaiji]

alyssa this is ELo, we're looking for concrete critical statements and not just sharp quips and an insistence that you are too annoyed to help solve.

prove you are town by laying out your thought processes. it isn't hard for townies.

[Kaiji]

but also i think that sequence isn't bad at all and when i saw it i was like "yeah i think this is possible"

[Kaiji]

i dont think its consequential for alyssa to be fake targeted by a fake scum cop

[Kaiji]

alyssa can you describe your progression on skitter slot please

[Kaiji]

it isn't that im angling to scumread you - I just like to be thorough in ELo.

[Kaiji]

good talk.

catboi come actually discuss game challenge.

[Kaiji]

VOTE: catboi

least towny person rn im not buying all the falloffs this game, you dont get to coast just by being the guilty target.


fmpov *no one* went for you when I was pushing you meaning scum were dead set on saccing enchant thus *you* being bussed by enchant is fully on the table.

you can argue i'm scum sure but it is also a very viable solution objectively from a pov of me being town so yep.

[Kaiji]

Turns out I don't enjoy mafia much anymore.

Which isn't an excuse, but it is what it is.

Correction: i dont enjoy * this game* much anymore.

You are plenty enjoying mafia.

[Kaiji]

upon seeing the enchant vig flip, i got reminded that kaiji slipped they arent vig. To my utter frustration and annoyance, they are probably town (and probably my strongest tr at this point)

how does that make kaiji town, I don't get it

why are none of the people who expressed suspicion of me dead?

[Kaiji]

datisi/catboi as a team crosses my mind considering how datisi is treating my slot and how catboi entered being demotivated to see skitter townreading me

I still dont like skitters dayplay but also i have lost games by putting too high of a BoP on players i thought were playing well below their towngame.

[Kaiji]

i have seen this kind of behaviour from catboi as town before, and i'm currently mulling over if i think it's likely he exhibits it as scum

Where have u seen this behavior from town catboi

[Kaiji]

i dont recognize any of the accounts as catboi/gira/petapan/bloodhail

[Kaiji]

and if its reinhardt, they replaced in late and had 12 posts so not sure what point we are making here

[Kaiji]

can you draw the parallel you're trying to make from that game to this one because I'm really not seeing it since catboi replaced out early there and i dont wanna sift through a hydra's posts where you yourself were the overwhelmingly top poster anyways

[Kaiji]

That's all well good but I have several theories that are able to explain demotivation as scum and all you're saying is that if he's town is that he's basically reducing the chances that we win significantly.

[Kaiji]

That being said - I pointed this out on day 3. Catboi had a guaranteed scum from his pov and was doing nothing *then*. If catboi is so demotivated because they can't catch any scum, when you get a scum who is confirmed from your POV why do you flop over?

I'd find it much more liklier that since Skitter was pushing catboi, and I was pushing mena/enchant at the time - in a town!skitter world - that he felt demotivated because 2 scum members were under heavy fire from strong players.


Would you not feel demotivated at that time that you are forced to bus?

[Kaiji]

Spoiler:

[instrumental]

vote count 3.1 !

Menalque (2):

Andante, Alyssa The Lamb

Andante (1):

Mare

Alyssa The Lamb (1):

skitter30

not voting (5):

catboi, Menalque, Something_Smart, Kaiji, Datisi

9 are alive, and it takes 5 votes to reevaluate someone's considerations. day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-01-30 04:45:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

you can't have my tongue

vote count 3.2 !

Menalque (1):

Andante

Andante (1):

Mare

catboi (1):

skitter30

skitter30 (1):

catboi

not voting (5):

Menalque, Something_Smart, Datisi, Alyssa The Lamb, Kaiji

9 are alive, and it takes 5 votes to reevaluate someone's considerations. day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-01-30 04:45:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

@mod do you allow mafia members to submit actions for their partners

yes

[Kaiji]

i will say im glad marathon weekend doesnt encompass this whole dayphase because we should at least have reasonable expectation for answers from catboi

[Kaiji]

ok but please post things that are alignment indicative not just AtE. Those votecouns I posted have another theory applicable to them - try to think criticaly from your POV why d3 went the way it did.

[Kaiji]

upon seeing the enchant vig flip, i got reminded that kaiji slipped they arent vig. To my utter frustration and annoyance, they are probably town (and probably my strongest tr at this point)

how does that make kaiji town, I don't get it

why are none of the people who expressed suspicion of me dead?

because you need to kill the PRs that were consensus town first and thought you could win a 1v1

like are you seriously trying to argue you'd nightkill me here

yes

[Kaiji]

i fixed your post because it was trying to suggest a different argument that wasn't relevant.

[Kaiji]

your accusation is that I played an informed alignment like I was uninformed, which is frankly hilarious to me.

[Kaiji]

this was the same thing skitter accused me of too.

you keep ignoring facts that would disprove you by waving them away without addressing them and that doesn't give me confidence in you being town.

Why did I egg on several people to hammer enchant!slot before I turned on you?


Your claim that I would not start to tinfoil a bus the way you were playing around the guilty is absurd. my progression is very obvious to anyone who actually reads between when the fake hammer happens and what happens next.


like damn.

[Kaiji]

your accusation is that I played an informed alignment like I was uninformed, which is frankly hilarious to me.

in fairness there are plenty of people who do this. my best moments as scum are when I do something so strange that people think I can't possibly have an agenda behind it (and often my only agenda is to make people think that).

Yeah but its moreso like .. thats usually for 1 off interactions, where this is an accusation of my play at large is uninformed. its kinda like in my scumgame to think 2 steps ahead of what I think will happen with the info I have. I'll take a minor dip into a risky play but then I know I'll come off looking better.
Unless like the accusation is that the "catboi push" is that kind of play in which case nah, I have very clear progression to why I went that way.

[Kaiji]

early game thats fair game but like seriously - end game is just I am strictly a person who says "get this shit over the finish line nothing fancy, people are likely to do things the way you need them to here"

[Kaiji]

my go to when pressured btw is not to respond when scum - it's to ignore. even in lategame -> here is an example:

koba change ur account challenge

[Kaiji]

who is alyssa's partner

[Kaiji]

I still think alyssa is town

[Kaiji]

people tell me that about my play in general

[Kaiji]

my thought process was consistent f u

[Kaiji]

you look and only see what u want to see its ok we can win the next one.

[Unv][/unv]

I was putting up a charade to see how skitter spews thinking shes clear but shes deadset on alyssa as her push.

[Kaiji]

i thoight Andante was a possible town vig bc a)the person shot, i believed by vig, was IV - bc andante was pushing them iirc.

[Kaiji]

don't pull your fucking tough guy routine about how you're going to interrogate everyone on their progressions if you're not willing to answer to scrutiny yourself

Try reading the game!!!!

Ive outted more progression than everyone else combined.

[Kaiji]

yes i saw midway vote SS, i distinctly remembered how midway treated SS up to that point and looked deeper into it and decided it was partner indicative.

see im not hiding shit

[Kaiji]

I got dumped last night so mafia pls throw for me thx

[Kaiji]

me telegraphing what I'm doing(or not doing) is koba indicative

[Kaiji]

Can you imagine a Skitter/Datisi/Alyssa/Kaiji endgame

if the other 2 try to push you its impossible bc id rather draw than get you eliminated this game lol

[Kaiji]

what happens is we no lim like twice and then scum decide "yeah just kill koba they will forever shield alyssa no matter what they weren't kidding" and then either a town datisi ends up voting alyssa anyways bc "wifom" or a town skitter ends up reevaling to datisi


or something like that

i thinkj my edibles are kicking in

[Kaiji]

i feel like i want to still vote skitter but also im so susceptible to pockets when i get genuine townreads/protection from someone but i acknowledge i've been like . fooled by this kind of behavior being TMI .

[Kaiji]

if i had to, gun to head i have like

alyssa
catboi
datisi
____________
Skitter
SS

rn in terms of a PoE

and if i actually read d1 at any point in full id prob get a better grasp but yeah.

[Kaiji]

if we nolim twice we lose bc scum gains parity

i think your edibles have kicked in already

no i meant after limming a scum SS

[Kaiji]

my haters will claim i TMI'd my supposed scum partner SS with that very string of posts but what they failed to realize my mind operates on about 5 tiers higher than the regular mind when I'm high

[Kaiji]

pretty sure an alyssa scumflip would like spew ur slot town anyways datisi so not sure what you're angling for

[Kaiji]

my high ass opening SS's ISO and realizing its all shit i would read from your average RIT student posting on yik yak (have actually experienced this)

no thx

[Kaiji]

fun fact, there was this app called Fade that was like Yik Yak but with pictures and I held the number 1 spot for RIT when the app shut down because Apple refused to carry it due to the nature of it. It had a run from 2014-2015

[Kaiji]

yik yak was an app that was location based that let people basically post to an anonymous forum that was reddit style, but only within their location. was popular on college campuses but also led to a lot of bullying

[Kaiji]

you finally get a wagon on your preferred "lim" and you'd rather swerve and challenge me to some kind of fist fight or w/e

no, this pretty clearly tracks with exactly what he just said in 2263, the post directly before you entered the thread.

yall really thought that i could be aligned with pooky huh

yes im reading random shit rn

[Kaiji]

if i had to, gun to head i have like

alyssa
catboi
datisi
____________
Skitter
SS

rn in terms of a PoE

and if i actually read d1 at any point in full id prob get a better grasp but yeah.

changed my mind on a placement

alyssa
datisi
catboi
____________
Skitter
SS

[Kaiji]

(If anyone would like to know what I read on flow feel free to peruse Purgatory and draw your own conclusions)

can we get a rehash of what those conclusions were - i was in this game myself

[Kaiji]

I think I have solved at least 1 piece of the puzzle.


I'm going back to this: VOTE: Catboi

when looking back to d1 - catboi is fairly wishy washy and is not solving at all *even on d1* and you know who calls this out? Faker does. Faker gets on his ass near EoD1 and pushes catboi to do *something* and threatens to push catboi if they sit on their ass.

you know who died n1?

Faker.

The death isn't conclusive evidence - but its a flipped town voice that was against catboi early on.

that alongside the general vibes of the guilty being .. very stilted and awkward in terms of how quiet both sides were solidify this for me.

catboi coming into today not knowing what to do and reverting to their basic scumread of me is also cause for concern to me.

So for cat

Cat if you don't carry me and vote scum I am willing to yeet you our the window

why would you

ever

expect me to do that?

I get that this is likely hyperbolic and just trying to kick my butt into action but I read it at the exact wrong time

read the next few pages and had very little I want to talk about. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow. I'm not really in the mood for any more tonight.

I've spent a lot of time chewing on this post and how to respond, with 2011 as the stopgap. I'd like to offer you a verbal hand to stand up again and play some mafia. I think being roundabout is going to backfire, and I don't want any questions of good/bad faith or exploitation.

I'm going to vote you if I think you're the best vote available. I hope you won't be.

for reference for the post that sent me over on this route.

I also find the back and forth with pooky that occured on d1 to be extremely performative and since pooky flipped scum - a good indicator it is svs interaction.

[Kaiji]

i receive clarity in mafia games about once a day and then feel doom when i feel pushback against my ideas and realize theyre not so great except when im right in which case yes.

[Kaiji]

you have mistaken me for a person who cares about mech claims in a non-GIM/bastard/role madness game

[Kaiji]

"why did mena guilty him" well clearly as a distancing tactic considering catboi's placement in the gamestate at the time means the bus against mena was preplanned.

[Kaiji]

there's your viability for that scenario - i do not think it is implausible nor even a particularly risky/hard play to make there in that position.

[Kaiji]

(If anyone would like to know what I read on flow feel free to peruse Purgatory and draw your own conclusions)

can we get a rehash of what those conclusions were - i was in this game myself

I think I have solved at least 1 piece of the puzzle.


I'm going back to this: VOTE: Catboi

when looking back to d1 - catboi is fairly wishy washy and is not solving at all *even on d1* and you know who calls this out? Faker does. Faker gets on his ass near EoD1 and pushes catboi to do *something* and threatens to push catboi if they sit on their ass.

you know who died n1?

Faker.

The death isn't conclusive evidence - but its a flipped town voice that was against catboi early on.

that alongside the general vibes of the guilty being .. very stilted and awkward in terms of how quiet both sides were solidify this for me.

catboi coming into today not knowing what to do and reverting to their basic scumread of me is also cause for concern to me.

So for cat

Cat if you don't carry me and vote scum I am willing to yeet you our the window

why would you

ever

expect me to do that?

I get that this is likely hyperbolic and just trying to kick my butt into action but I read it at the exact wrong time

read the next few pages and had very little I want to talk about. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow. I'm not really in the mood for any more tonight.

I've spent a lot of time chewing on this post and how to respond, with 2011 as the stopgap. I'd like to offer you a verbal hand to stand up again and play some mafia. I think being roundabout is going to backfire, and I don't want any questions of good/bad faith or exploitation.

I'm going to vote you if I think you're the best vote available. I hope you won't be.

for reference for the post that sent me over on this route.

I also find the back and forth with pooky that occured on d1 to be extremely performative and since pooky flipped scum - a good indicator it is svs interaction.

requoting new page ya yeet.

[Kaiji]

Andante: town
skitter30: null
midwaybear: probably town
Mare: lean town
innocentvillager: town
SirCakez: lean scum
Faker: sheepishly admitting he's town
catboi - nya
Menalque: scumlean from pooky, willing to give him time to get into the game
Datisi: lean town
northsidegal: probably town, under the impression she's fairly polarized and think posting is all right so far
Sleepless Assassin: null
flow trap: scum
Something_Smart: null

In draft order because that's more fun

I guess if the wagons are unsatisfying I'd entertain a vote on something_smart, or if I were feeling particularly spicy, skitter

hol up! rewind time!

catboi - please explain how you reached each and every one of these reads.

yes you may reference the textbook(the thread) for your answers - but you must explain your answers in your own words!

[Kaiji]

But if mena is going down anyways why doesnt he guilty a town?

And if catboi is top scum in the draft, what does he go for?
(Although it did just occur to me from a draft perspective alyssa/catboi make sense)

"why doesn't he guilty a town"


it is equally likely in that gamestate scenario to simply guilty a scumbuddy who is in decent enough standings with the townies in the playerlist.


i did not factor the guilty into my reasoning and i refuse to incorporate mechanics in my reads when they are just probabilities. if you wish to play probabilities, you can ask mathblade who handed me a scum win in white flag for free because "unlikely no scum on jester wagon".

[Kaiji]

that is to say I do not think mathblade is a bad player I just think their application of mechanical/wagon probability can lead to conclusions that let scum win for free and I am diametrically opposed to reading the game like that which is how you are presenting the argument to me.

[Kaiji]

oh yeah those edibles are strong

[Kaiji]

to answer how i do apply mechs - > is I use them as a catalyst to determine the most efficient way to sort dayplay in the least amount of time by utilizing that probability to narrow down what I'm looking for rather than let it override my reads.

there are only 2 truths known to me:

scum spew

and dead townie flip

those are the ultimate truths in mafia and they always are able to speak the truth about a gamestate

[Kaiji]

i also have trouble believing catboi ever goes for neighborizer when they hate using hoods

[Kaiji]

the viable scumteam world of Skitter/Catboi/Pooky:

Skitter: Tried for Jailkeeper, believing andante took vig, failed

Catboi: tried for bulletproof, succeeded

Pooky: tried for night 1 vig: succeeded


in the SS/Catboi/Pooky scum world

Catboi: Tries for bulletproof, or any other useful role(potentially n3 vig that went unused) - succeeds

Pooky- Tries for 1 shot vig - succeeds

SS - Opposite of whatever catboi goes for - fails? -> reminder that andante said that SS went no where so.


Honestly I wish galron confirmed that so we know that andante didnt get "No result" but unlikely that scum take ascetic cop over a bp

[Kaiji]

mech viability established.

now no one is allowed to ask me "but how does this match up with mechs?"

well thats the cool part. it still does.

[Kaiji]

who knew weed would be an effective way to increase one's own WIM

[Kaiji]

mechanical reasons have blindspots where players with a penchant for risk taking(not really risks in the sense of gametstate - but moreso in the sense of if a piece was moved too soon, or a piece revealed in the wrong order, it all falls apart) will be able to slip through.


i still know my theories can be backed up by mechanical viability. i am just not into explaining things via mechs when I do not myself take into account mechs that do not strictly disprove me.

[Kaiji]

I myself exploited such players who had some level of trust in mechanics when I claimed something a dead player had done overnight - it would have taken 2 steps of logic to unravel that it was possible I *had* done so and I used it as a shield. When I'm town, I just ignore such claims and go straight for the dayplay.

[Kaiji]

I have read your posts catboi - i got what I wanted alignment wise
VOTE: skitter

Also the "i wouldn't kill my friend n1" argument made me laugh.

[Kaiji]

Anyone who insists alyssa is scum - Vote now. Thank you.

In particular i want skitter to vote alyssa so we can confirm at least 1 scum between those 3

[Kaiji]

I'd also like alyssa to vote skitter with me

[Kaiji]

We need to force votes now for info even if we no lim

Take a risk and say "these 3 players contain at leaat 1 scum"
Except im very sure on 1 scum between specifically alyssa and skitter

[Kaiji]

Let skitter cross

[Kaiji]

Just vote.

[Kaiji]

Rofl i thought it was skitter + catboi

[Kaiji]

2/4 townies were hard fosing alyssa. Game was lost regardless

[Kaiji]

Frustrated i had the solve just no one wanted to vote catboi meh

[Kaiji]

the viable scumteam world of Skitter/Catboi/Pooky:

Skitter: Tried for Jailkeeper, believing andante took vig, failed

Catboi: tried for bulletproof, succeeded

Pooky: tried for night 1 vig: succeeded


in the SS/Catboi/Pooky scum world

Catboi: Tries for bulletproof, or any other useful role(potentially n3 vig that went unused) - succeeds

Pooky- Tries for 1 shot vig - succeeds

SS - Opposite of whatever catboi goes for - fails? -> reminder that andante said that SS went no where so.


Honestly I wish galron confirmed that so we know that andante didnt get "No result" but unlikely that scum take ascetic cop over a bp

[Kaiji]

There was so much apathy in this game that it was borderline impossible to get anywhere even though I correctly identified so many people as town

Like why is this such a huge problem on the site now, this has been a thing in practically every game I've played this year

by the time we found eachother as town, i felt we had a good solid chance of winning, which well with 2/3 correct we did.

[Kaiji]

koba, i trusted you were town

i also correctly called out your skitter shittunnel as game losing

shrug

wasn't able to reach skitter town in time, no one was able to reach catboi scum or alyssa town in time.

i was just tired


dont think if i drop skitter push that alyssa doesnt just go over anyways

[Kaiji]

you see this is the part where skitter says "lol fuckers i actually picked venge as my pick we win now"

[Kaiji]

but i did reach a point where i believed a world existed with skitter town thanks to alyssa's SS push so eyyy it was *eventually* solvable

[Kaiji]

I think if you drop me the day ends in a misflip and we can at least try again tomorrow

I dont think we flip alyssa (or even necessarily me) today if you didnt force this cross vote, which wcum were obviously quite happy about

meh

i really really wanted catboi and just was like ok let me just pick 50/50 from my not as sure PoE

i included the "i wouldn't n1 my friends was funny" line in my unvote of catboi because it in fact solidified my scumread there because epicmafia people used that line *all the fucking time* as AtE after they indeed did, n1 their friend.

[Kaiji]

skitter, i'm not sure what I did in the realm of the game of mafia that was "deeply unpleasant" to you that is unacceptable to play with, other than the fact that being tunneled sucks in general. If you can point me to any examples of where I crossed a line, feel free to and I will try to improve in the future as I have been trying to over the past couple of years.

Spoiler:

I found you refusing to interact with me because you scumread me to be quite unpleasant, demoralizing, and basically the point where i recognized the game would be a loss

You had a variety of posts on day4 that were almost mocking, rude, and were almost trying to piss me off

Spoiler:

i recognize the refusal to interact is a thing i still fall back on when frustrated making a push and thinking im being manipulated to look scummy. I know you're the archaetype of scum player to absolutely make someone twist their words and use them against them as scum and I was afraid of the scenario where you'd use that to make me a game ending mislim. I did not mean anything mockingly/rude, I apologize if it came off that way. I'm still working on that kind of stuff, which I've very majorly improved on the past year alone since I was banned last year.

[Kaiji]

I think if you drop me the day ends in a misflip and we can at least try again tomorrow

I dont think we flip alyssa (or even necessarily me) today if you didnt force this cross vote, which wcum were obviously quite happy about

meh

i really really wanted catboi and just was like ok let me just pick 50/50 from my not as sure PoE

i included the "i wouldn't n1 my friends was funny" line in my unvote of catboi because it in fact solidified my scumread there because epicmafia people used that line *all the fucking time* as AtE after they indeed did, n1 their friend.

Did the meta shift that way, there were a ton of people who used to trust tell with that shit and I always hated it

i mean that was like 2016/2017 people used it for trust tells and then later on people just said it as AtE lol.

what comes to mind is people like charley n1ing shady and then immediately being like "I INVITED SHADY OMG I WOULD NEVER N1 HIM"