Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[syugar]

Oh heh well no conversations like that necessary just a little venting moving on

[Takemikazuchi02]

Its about time we ended day 1, we only have 18 hours left and I have nothing more to say.

[syugar]

Well anyone has hammer power rn

If we end it now, the deadline for night won't really change so not too much point though

I think cat jpeg had more to say unless I recall wrong

My vote is set though cant see myself moving personally

Sorry if we browbeat you too hard and made you freeze out Tidus, game is hard

[goodmorning]

I don't care for carelessness.

Neither do scum, they refine their posts meticulously and make sure they're consistent

Not always true, which is why I say carelessness is NAI. I just don't like it. If you're not being careful, as either alignment, you're not doing your best.

[syugar]

I don't care for carelessness.

Neither do scum, they refine their posts meticulously and make sure they're consistent

Not always true, which is why I say carelessness is NAI. I just don't like it. If you're not being careful, as either alignment, you're not doing your best.

sorry I got bad adhd and bpd very prone to impulsive behaviors lmao

[the worst]

I uh don't really think Tidus hits anymore

[the worst]

I maintain Tidus very likely flips town

still no idea why you maintain this btw

[the worst]

Tidus is even in the thread now and can't answer any of the questions thrown at him aside from his role, idk man

This irks me as well and I think it's why I'm unlikely to move my vote tbh. Am I a bad person ...

[the worst]

and I wouldn't use TMI as a reason to not elim Tidus here

(am I throwing the game? do I sound stupid for doing this vote?)

naw I feel similarly

[the worst]

VOTE: Lukewarm good counterwagon, thanks.

[the worst]

naw nevermind
VOTE: catboi

I'm not convinced by the Tidus townread. I'm not convinced by the rate in which your confidence grew. I'm not convinced that your reads are "tidus town, nothing else worth actioning" (though understand this might be partially tainted by your being absent). I don't buy that your response to being called out on TMI reads is "I would NEVER!!! do that as scum". Just not sitting right with me at all.

Would still probably do Tidus but I'll concede it's largely because he's ignored all of the actionable calls to play the game. Which isn't a reason I'd like to use in a newbie game. But deadline pressure is what it is.

[the worst]

To expand a little I guess.

- I think scum are incentivised to win credit by looking like they knew better than the d1 town. I think it's actually instinctive for scum to double down on unpopular but correct reads.
- I think having syugar and I uncertain on Tidus and pushing there because of deadline pressure creates a good opportunity to move against us on a tidus townflip.
- I think catboi not having pushed elsewhere is a more a symptom of not having time to do so, than a symptom of not having an agenda. I doubt that it's a reliable indicator of catboi's alignment.
- it's also just really hard to guess what wagon would or wouldn't gain traction in this gamestate!!

allowing that if Tidus is scum his partner would likely be trying to come out of this looking good. I'm not totally sure exactly what that means, and it's rich with wifom. Just, like, if we hit tidus today and he's red don't look for his partners in the obvious places. I'm also not really sure how many people out of 100 just immediately bus a newbie partner.

[catboi]

I'll come after you Day 2.

That being said if I'm wrong and Tidus is scum, great, things are looking good and we probably win anyway, it's not a big deal.

[catboi]

After seeing Tidus freeze and answer nothing I dont understand catbois rationale for townreading him

"I think hes the type of player to make social reads" looking back on it wtf does that even mean o_o

Seriously do not understand the inertia here in general

Worst was frikin right if Tidus was a villager he'd already be dead Im sorry I ever fosed you bby

I think it's

very

simple to understand - they're a player who is used to the type of game where power roles do most of the work and so when placed in a MS-styled game where dayplay is emphasized they wind up flopping around like a fish and not doing much. I do not think this is a difficult archetype of player to comprehend. It is frustrating to deal with and maybe even a problem as the game winds on but these type of players tend to gt executed very frequently and flip town a good majority of the time.

[catboi]

I maintain Tidus very likely flips town. I am incredibly suspicious of worst for pushing there and it probably tanks syugar in my estimation as well. Don't think they're scum together but doubt both are town.

I think to some extent flopping around and forcing out a bunch of claims at deadline is anti-town but I can't in good conscience send this through so I'll sit back in protest until we're truly running out of time with no alternative.

When was the last time you saw a TOWNIE freeze up like this?

Eh, seen it before but can't necessarily say off the top of my head.

The setup is very swingy and a d1 scum lynch increases the power of each PR to a crazy degree so u wouldnt want to not take the vote here, more likely it gets stalled like this so that head wheels r spun and vote is change at the last second narmean???...

Theres no towncase for Tidus possible, sucks if we are wrong but if we didn't vote Tidus today the chance he is not lynched d2 is very low regardless, he isn't playing but to prod dodge

This is probably the best reason imaginable to vote Tidus given it's unlikely he'll townclear himself in the time given and can't necessarily be relied upon to actually scumhunt but it still feels bad to me.

[the worst]

Just know that you probably won't get very much information if I am eliminated, if we eliminate T02 or Cat.jpeg, even if whichever one is eliminated isn't scum, we get some information out of it due to their reads, and I would say there may be a good chance of either of them being scum

I still think there's an unaddressed dissonance in this post which makes me hesitant to lean too heavily on that type of read.

Being from a different kind of mafia site is totally fine, and there are a lot of players here who prefer mechanics to dayplay. But we literally have 7+ day deadlines. I think there's necessarily a degree of 'meeting site culture in the middle', so to speak. Calling that two possible eliminations have a "good chance" of being scum and then ignoring questions to expand further doesn't really make me think that there's a lot of intent to day play here.

And if we don't look at players who aren't willing to dayplay on d1, what happens? they get to d3, still aren't interested in dayplay, and suddenly the game swings heavily away from being solvable.

sorry if this is harsh but it's pretty real.

[the worst]

your read seems to be some kind of false syllogism of

tidus is a mechanically-invested player who doesn't do dayplay.
mechanically invested players who don't do dayplay have a rand chance of being town.
therefore tidus is town.

i understand where you're coming from. i think your level of confidence is really strange given you seem to lack a lot of other actionable reads?

[catboi]

I am worried that catboi is TMIing Tidus as town.

you ought to know better by now and it is frankly irritating to be treated this way for defending a read

I am not suspicious of you "defending a read." You are not pushing for a change of course, you are just shading the people who scum read him.

I don't think that it makes sense for you to be so sure that tidus is town as to result in you scum reading people for thinking he is scum.

I also don't think that this is the way you would play with him if you are partners with him.

Let me try to explain this in as claer terms as I possibly can:

I think that Tidus is more likely than not flipping town.

I think some of the pushes on him are bad and quite likely scum-motivated, in particular the worst, who replaced a scummy slot and has not acted in a way I find towny.

I do not believe I can put together a persuasive case based on the evidence we have right now.

Even if I could, wagons tend to be heavy on inertia and it's hard to get people to move, especially so close to deadline.

I could be wrong about Tidus! (I very frequently am, because I am not very good, but I still have to try). However, in the event Tidus is mafia, I think the game is easy enough that it won't really matter if I look bad based on his flip. My mind is more concerned with contemplating worlds where he flips town and what that means for the game.


Does that make sense? I know I suck at communicating because I rarely get taken seriously but hopefully I explained that in a legible way.

[catboi]

your read seems to be some kind of false syllogism of

tidus is a mechanically-invested player who doesn't do dayplay.
mechanically invested players who don't do dayplay have a rand chance of being town.
therefore tidus is town.

i understand where you're coming from. i think your level of confidence is really strange given you seem to lack a lot of other actionable reads?

I think you're probably scum as of right now, especially given how you're reacting to me. I don't think I could argue that persuasively to most people, certainly not in the time allotted.

[catboi]

I understand that, but I don't know why you think that, like what are the hallmarks of this being a towngame instead of a scumgame, it just feels like we ended up on different sides of a binary crapshoot and I don't understand why you're on your side other than that you intuitively think he is towning due to something indescribable

So it's far from simple for me

Also, not making reads is one thing, but not making reads and then coming out with the "lynch X or Y for more information over me" line is totally different in my eyea

And not making reads is one thing, but not answering a single direct question about said statement when you're reading the thread and just dipping after a claim is another

I don't expect someone to freeze up to questions about things they have already said as town - they have to had believed in what they were saying, which means there must be an explanation as to why. That he has not bothered to reply to theworsts questions and give us that explanation makes it not seem considered at all

That is fair and understandable. Perhaps I'm just too soft at heart right now. But I would be entirely unsurprised if he's just playing not that great. I don't know what to do about it if that is the case.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@the worst

I side with catboi on this. i scumread Tidus after his first series of posts but after the second one I'm pretty confident Tidus is town too because I don't think things would play out this way if he was maf.

[catboi]

I thought there was a post I wanted to respond to but couldn't find it. I would just ask that anyone whose impulse is to come at me for "TMI" to consider the possibility that I am simply town who does not think the same way as you do. I find it eminently frustrating to be accused of being scum simply for daring to dispute consensus. I have tried to communicate my thinking although clearly I am terrible at this, but even if that doesn't work just

try

to understand that thinking differently is not a scumtell.


I will move my vote to Tidus before I head to sleep tonight for the sake of securing a majority. I hope that the extra discussion will have proven useful.

[syugar]

That is fair and understandable. Perhaps I'm just too soft at heart right now. But I would be entirely unsurprised if he's just playing not that great. I don't know what to do about it if that is the case.

Prob. build out the PoE, we have PRs too

I wouldn't be devastated if Tidus doesn't die as a vice versa but I don't see how he ever reaches any kind of towncore either

[syugar]

After seeing Tidus freeze and answer nothing I dont understand catbois rationale for townreading him

"I think hes the type of player to make social reads" looking back on it wtf does that even mean o_o

Seriously do not understand the inertia here in general

Worst was frikin right if Tidus was a villager he'd already be dead Im sorry I ever fosed you bby

I think it's

very

simple to understand - they're a player who is used to the type of game where power roles do most of the work and so when placed in a MS-styled game where dayplay is emphasized they wind up flopping around like a fish and not doing much. I do not think this is a difficult archetype of player to comprehend. It is frustrating to deal with and maybe even a problem as the game winds on but these type of players tend to gt executed very frequently and flip town a good majority of the time.

Mm yeah okay

I am bad/frozen

[syugar]

To expand a little I guess.

- I think scum are incentivised to win credit by looking like they knew better than the d1 town. I think it's actually instinctive for scum to double down on unpopular but correct reads.
- I think having syugar and I uncertain on Tidus and pushing there because of deadline pressure creates a good opportunity to move against us on a tidus townflip.
- I think catboi not having pushed elsewhere is a more a symptom of not having time to do so, than a symptom of not having an agenda. I doubt that it's a reliable indicator of catboi's alignment.
- it's also just really hard to guess what wagon would or wouldn't gain traction in this gamestate!!

allowing that if Tidus is scum his partner would likely be trying to come out of this looking good. I'm not totally sure exactly what that means, and it's rich with wifom. Just, like, if we hit tidus today and he's red don't look for his partners in the obvious places. I'm also not really sure how many people out of 100 just immediately bus a newbie partner.

I see his motivations differently than this, this is if u are going in with the assumption he is scum that makes sense but thats just imo