Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Nashville Dreams]

I somehow clicked the section on vanilla cops not working on werewolves. That's bullshit.

~Titus

[Nero Cain]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

[Nashville Dreams]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

Not for vanilla cops.

Vanilla just determines PR or not. Faction be damned. Period.

~Titus

[Nero Cain]

the stuff about wolf-cop interaction and what a hirsute is if it's more than a miller (I doubt it is) needs to be updated

[Nero Cain]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

Not for vanilla cops.

Vanilla just determines PR or not. Faction be damned. Period.

~Titus

oh no, this was about this gunsmiths saying that they don't get gun from wolf. not vanilla cop. There's a chance the Dunn is legit not understanding his role b/c info is scarce but I think he's just trying to bullshit us.

[Nashville Dreams]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

Not for vanilla cops.

Vanilla just determines PR or not. Faction be damned. Period.

~Titus

oh no, this was about this gunsmiths saying that they don't get gun from wolf. not vanilla cop. There's a chance the Dunn is legit not understanding his role b/c info is scarce but I think he's just trying to bullshit us.

Same. Can be resolved by a PM to the mod.

[Dunnstral]

It's irrelevant because I'm a hirsute. I don't interact with cops at all.

but in the example that you gave in 6900 you have a wolf give a result of not vanilla.

I'm not a wolf.

Ydrasse is not a vanilla cop.

And I'm not talking about vanilla cops here, I'm talking about whether Ydrasse would get a correct result on me with the parity cop claim. And I said she would.

If a wolf gives a result other than "no result" it's still a result.

Ydrasse is not claiming vanilla cop.

[quote="In post 7023, Nero Cain"Also, the idea that wolves (that have no additional abilities) give a pr result seems kinda dumb to me. It should work the same way with all factions, imo.[/quote]

OK.

It doesn't how you think the role should work, I quoted what the wiki says, and it is very clear in how it works.

Again, this doesn't relate to my claim of Hirsute, which is by the way also not vanilla anyways.

Mine and most players (well I assume) just see wolf as a flavored version of mafia with no difference.

We have already established that gunsmiths work differently between the two factions.

now the miller page does say

In Online Werewolf, the Miller is called a Lycan and is unaware of his Lycan status.

but I have never seen this and it's not normal.

I agree that this would not be normal.

I'm 99% certain that the mods on this site have just been using hirsute as a flavored wolf miller and I feel like you are just being deceptive right now.

I am not being deceptive about anything.

What does your role pm actually say? After you asked the mod any questions?

I had no questions for the mod. My role pm is very clear. If a seer targets me, I look like a werewolf. This is what I have claimed my role did in the past, including links to the wiki where the role is described as such in 6822

Why? If you believe that you don't interact with cops wouldn't you think that a cop check on you is a waste?

You are being intentionally obtsure because I have in the past pointed out to you that I linked to the wiki.

The full argument went as follows:

Ydrasse expresses that they were considering my role when using their own role (?)
I point out that there is no reason to think my role would interact with Ydrasse
I also point out that a normal miller probably would interact with Ydrasse
Multiple players claim that miller would not interact with Ydrasse
I make it clear that I am not a miller
You ask me if Hirsute is "a miller that shows up as a wolf"
I say it is irrelevant,

my role does not do anything special when targeted by a cop

.

The only role that does anything special is the seer. This is not the case for the standard miller. In 6822 I give the reasoning for that. The standard miller is worded much more vaguely than the Hirsute, such that multiple cop type roles react differently. Miller explicitly outlines which cop roles function normally when targeting it. Here's the quote from the wiki:

A Miller returns a guilty result if investigated by a Cop, "Miller" if investigated by a Role Cop, and "non-Vanilla" to a Vanilla Cop.

So in conclusion, yes Hirsute is the werewolf flavored counterpart to miller. No, it's not the exact same thing. Because there are multiple cop roles but only one seer, and because miller uses over 10 times the word count to explain what it does and to give exceptions to certain roles. Parity cop is not one of those exceptions, and yeah a miller would give a result of "mafia" to that role (not directly shown, but used to compare alignments) - because that is an "unfavorable result" and the role investigating it is a "cop"

[Dunnstral]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

And in flavor, cops are not the right investigative to figure out werewolves.

Again, why is vanilla cop different here?

[Dunnstral]

Yeah so is Gunsmith but multiple players have claimed it doesn't work against werewolves. What makes vanilla cop different?

in flavor, SKs use knives thus they get negative from a GS. Perhaps the mod has wolf flavored as using their

CLAWS

and they are basically a faction of SKs?

Not for vanilla cops.

Vanilla just determines PR or not. Faction be damned. Period.

~Titus

oh no, this was about this gunsmiths saying that they don't get gun from wolf. not vanilla cop. There's a chance the Dunn is legit not understanding his role b/c info is scarce but I think he's just trying to bullshit us.

Same. Can be resolved by a PM to the mod.

I will not be pming the mod. If you have a question about the role Hirsute, you can pm the mod and ask. I don't have a question, and I'm not confused about how my role works, so I will not be doing that.

[Dunnstral]

even if hirsute was something other than just a miller, you'd still have a town wincon unless you just aren't town.

I have never said that I don't have a town wincon.

[Dunnstral]

Not for vanilla cops.

Vanilla just determines PR or not. Faction be damned. Period.

No, Vanilla cop does not do that.

This is what a Vanilla cop does:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vanilla_Cop

Normal Guidelines

Vanilla Cop is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

When the role is called "Vanilla Cop", Vanilla Townies, Mafia Goons, and Serial Killers with no additional powers return a "Vanilla" result, while all other roles return "not Vanilla"

.

The Neapolitan variant is also considered Normal, but must be named "Neapolitan" to distinguish it from the preceding version.

[MonkeyMan576]

If you know you get a non-town result to a parity cop then there would be no reason to suggest that a parity cop should target you.

You are scum, that's all there is to it.

[Dunnstral]

cute another wagon to save scum-dunn & scum-csf

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Another? What previous wagon was to save scum!Dunn and scum!CSF? Please, do tell.

I do think this was somewhat overlooked. They're clearly just making things up at this point and I'm not sure why nobody seems to care.

[Dunnstral]

If you know you get a non-town result to a parity cop then

I never said that.

[Dunnstral]

I also did not suggest that a parity cop should target me.

I said sure when asked if I was fine with it.

[MonkeyMan576]

I say it is irrelevant,

my role does not do anything special when targeted by a cop

.

You said it right here. Now you are backtracking.

[Dunnstral]

How is that me saying that I give a non-town result to a parity cop?

Walk us through that.

[MonkeyMan576]

A parity cop is a cop.

[Dunnstral]

I agree

[Dunnstral]

My role does not do anything special when targeted by a cop = I'm not a miller, cops can target me and get normal results

There is no real way to twist what I said into me saying "I give a result of not town when targeted by a cop"

I am asking you to explain how you understood it as the second

[MonkeyMan576]

I was clarifying, it was unclear. I still think you're scum.

[Dunnstral]

all four alignments have different wincons is the impression i have

hmm, then what's the point of specifying 'identical wincon' over just 'same alignment'? don't those mean the same thing?

pedantry really but when i got my role my question was basically like

"can wolves/mafia have the same wincon (beat all other threats) or like, wolves/malefactor"

and they cant

so i classify it as different wincons as what im checking for

it's not functionally different but it feels it

especially with a game with like a claimed werewolf miller lmao

My role is that if I get investigated by a seer (werewolf sided cop equivalent) I appear as a werewolf

Just like a miller for the mafia side

You're not claiming seer so it doesn't interact with your role. I have the town win condition.

Things

might

be different if I were a normal miller, since you are a parity

cop

, but I'm not.

It is abundantly clear what I am talking about in this post. Anyone sayomg that I'm somehow insinuating that Ydrasse's claimed role somehow doesn't work on me, or that I am claiming Miller are straight up not reading the game, lying, stupid, or maybe a mix of all of those things.

We are going to stop trying to make this about me now. This was originally about Ydrasse, and they haven't responded at all, instead they made a few more woof woof posts and continued to vote me to "end the day".

Ydrasse, what did you mean in this post when you said "especially with a game with like a claimed werewolf miller"?

[mastina]

Then why don't you start

One vanity wagon's as good as another when every major wagon is on town and my vote on FL is a statement that I prefer.

dear mastina
flavor leaf isn't happening today. please move on.

Move on to who?

Dunnstral? He's town.
Nashville Dreams? They're town.
Cat Scratch Fever? Also town.

Literally every single player with more than one vote right now is town.

So respectfully, I'm not moving off of my wagon until there's actually a better wagon.

One vote on scum is better than ten votes on town.

[Klick]

VOTE: CSF

[butterchurn]

Dunnstral? He's town.
Nashville Dreams? They're town.
Cat Scratch Fever? Also town.

Literally every single player with more than one vote right now is town.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong? You were saying earlier that you believe your own reads currently are around average, or middle of the road. Which wagon has more people that you townread pushing it? And what makes your read more likely to be correct than theirs?