Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Klick]

When you're scum there's this pressure to perform well for your few buddies that doesn't exist in the same way when you're town
I don't feel like Menalque is one of the remaining members of a small team carrying that responsibility in this game

[Klick]

I haven't looked specifically at Menalque/catboi interactions, it was a statement about Menalque's general attitude towards the game as I've read it

[SCP 682]

Okay lmk when you do

[Klick]

It's not an area I have a ton of interest in tbh since I'm not scumreading Menalque
I've not read all of your posts if I'm honest, is this Mena/catboi connection something you've talked about and think is legit or are you just trying to get me/Mena/catboi connections linked up

[bnuuy]

gonna be frank, nashville is not impressing me rn

[Nashville Dreams]

My point is that mena does not enjoy being scum as is a pattern in his meta

Your meta on Enchant was wrong.

~Titus

enchant is readable.

i do think they have pushed their own reads early on in the way they can and are engaged in their own way.

its like u have to try to hop into their mind and see how they think.

if you think its the same, you aren't trying hard enough to get into enchant's shoes and see their thought processes IMHO

[SCP 682]

that doesnt mean im.fucking wrong on everything.
Don't be obtuse

[bnuuy]

my own personal experience with mena says koba is probably correct

[SCP 682]

I already explained how i fucked my enchant read and that is bc enchant improved his scum game in recent times and i just need to update how i read him.

[tictac]

remember townreading dunn hydra and interaction w parity seemed towny. would prefer not to go there.
could go enchant if scrathy wagon doesnt revive but kinda hope it does.

hes basically begging to be parity checked

like, stop me stop me, oh stop me if I'm wrong

but it seems like this boils down to

Norwee: I have a serious read/conviction that you're scum but the

manner

in which I'm pushing it means that it can be characterised as light-hearted

malc: if you push someone that is aimed at affecting the outcome of the game and is by definition not something that can be lighthearted, therefore you're being contradictory

I think this probably comes down to malc being a newer player vs norwee having been around for a while

mena still locktown 4 this post.
even stronger since norw and malc confirmed town.

VOTE: sod

^still valid
multip hirsute: eh. don't think it's out there. there's lots false positives gunsmiths get also.

just wanna close the poes tbh, would be nice to not yeet townreads to do so.

masons: me, meg, klick
masons = conf not mafia, could be wolf
klick the one claiming 1shot gunsmith not me, probs why monkey checked there.
outed pr being blocked in a large: also not out there, tho specifics of the check would be good to know.

[cassowary]

menalque/catboi wallpost

even granting menalque's attitude towards the game as NAI, I think menalque/catboi interactions d1 make a lot of sense if menalque is partnered with catboi and sees partner-catboi getting pushed

hard

i think the majority of menalque's posts d1 might have been catboi related even early on before it became a federal freaking issue

Spoiler: menalque on catboi d1

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

uh, maybe, but I guess it's more -- a lot of people seem to kinda want catboi dead when while he hasn't had that much (bar one thing) that stood out as that towny to me, he also hasn't been scummy and I don't see the awkwardness in the early game that others are talking about. I also think town!catboi is a high priority lim for scum, so I can see both scum teams + potentially malefactor all playing into catboi paranoia to try and increase the odds of getting said mislim

the thing I really liked and I guess the main reason that I think catboi is town based on his own posting is 809 which I could jive with once I read back through malc's posting and paired it with what catboi is saying. having now talked to malc more on my own, and also feeling better about town there, I in turn feel good about catboi getting there before me and helping me to see it too

early on there's this post where menalque says catboi hasn't done anything super towny but then gives a bunch of reasons catboi shouldn't be eliminated

there's also a lot of 'just say no to catboi vote' campaigning:

Catboi > Nashville

Gonna have to give you the big ole wrong answer gameshow buzzer on the first one, but I guess I’ll listen on Nashville

So either catboi or wallflower is the correct elim for today.

Am I gonna have to go back to using the big red “X”s instead of saying buzzer noise

also asking people 'why are you voting catboi':\

I'm at about 18% for Catboi right now.

y

Hey tictac, why are you voting catboi anyway?

this early bit also pings me slightly:

Every day that goes by without Catboi trying to kill Mena I become more convinced they are on the same team

is this a semi-serious post or?

now I have you here, would you mind answering the previous question about why you would expect catboi/me to be trying to kill each other?

also a few posts where menalque is like 'voting catboi is pointless and won't go through so we might as well vote somewhere else right guys' (#964, #1485)

there's a lot of catboi in menalque's d1 iso, this is not nearly all of it. i buy a lack of motivation coming from town menalque, given that doing this kind of thing as town and then seeing catboi flip scum would be extremely demoralizing, but i could definitely also see a lack of motivation coming from a scum menalque who chainsaw-defended catboi hard early on to avert an elimination but lost him anyway despite all his efforts and then looked extremely suspicious due to it

---

on the flipside, catboi's early interactions with menalque are mostly fluff with a few times where catboi answers a question from menalque, but catboi hardly ever actually talks about his thoughts

on

menalque himself

Spoiler: catboi menalque fluff

And to be honest, I didn't really want to bring this up in-game but I kind of think he has a grudge against me or something. Don't get it, I don't have anything against him.

Just my two cents catboi, but I don’t think norwee carries grudges against anyone really

I think if he did then he 1000% would have against me when we first started playing together but he never has

lol there was a time pooky tilted him out of a game on an alt

You’re both pretty and intelligent

nya~

Catboi and StD: I am entrusting custodianship of the bnuuy wagon to you both in my absence

Do not allow a certain F. L. Avourleaf to unrail it in my absence

I will try but I actually have to leave work pretty soon and I have a long drive and Enchant is in the game

but then catboi lists menalque as one of his highest townreads:

Spoiler: catboi menalque tr

well done what other scum reads do you have

i believe we can find something we agree on

We scumread Menalque
We are suspicious of Malcolm and catboi
We are less suspicious of Klick and tictac and haven't given them a strong look over but have acknowledged them

We were suspicious of Monkeyman and Sword of Ducks at one point and need to think over it again

Boys you gotta get some better scumreads because I'm town, Menalque is very likely town, and I think Malcolm is too

Okay, I'm caught up. Let's do this thing:

Town reads:

Sword of Ducks (de facto Innocent Child)
Menalque
Well Done
MalcolmTucker
butterchurn
Save The Dragons
mastina
MonkeyMan576 (little less confident on this one than the others but only because I haven't been paying as much attention to him lately)

snip (doesn't mention menalque here)

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

he finally gives an answer for why he TRs menalque here:

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

Ok. Describe why Mena is town here then - because the lack of an edge is blatant and theyre waffly as fuck.

I don't think him "playing with an edge" is a requirement for his towngame based n recent experience, he has good energy, read his posts and mostly go "hm yeah he's analysing the game and trying to figure things out", his reads are moving around. I mean that's a bullshit answer that ultimately boils down to "vibes" but given he spent most of PYP being a limp noodle (sorry) in general I think his enthusiasm for being town here is clear and the fact that he's maintaining his engagement even with the thread picking up town-indicative for him.

Where do you see him being "waffly"?

but this alone doesn't nearly justify such a high town read on menalque imo, the real reason is either that they're partners or that catboi was trying to pocket a townie menalque

----

they also both voted each other rvs which, while that's functionally meaningless, i think it's interesting they were kind of buddied up from the beginning and never really seemed to reevaluate even though menalque theoretically didn't really trust catboi early on

----

my only concern here is that this set of interactions could also be coming from scum catboi pocketing menalque. the way it was mostly a one-sided defense until later in the game when menalque started getting suspicion for defending catboi and then catboi defended menalque could be W/W or it could be catboi trying to save menalque as someone who would defend him to the death.

menalque's posts after d1 (#6647, #6669, #7561) kind of seem to give that impression (that catboi pocketed him hard). and menalque cites 'slot being compromised' as a reason he doesn't want to replace out which is valid. but i'm just not sure i see this level of defense coming from just a pocketed menalque d1. that seems kinda nuts to me, it looks much more like a chainsaw defense type thing. i think i kinda agree on some level that the slot is compromised and it's best to just resolve it so speculation isn't floating around, because ngl it does look pretty suspicious.

plus, right now i am TRing CSF, but that's partly based on menalque saying CSF friendly neighbor'd him as non-wolf. if menalque flips town that gives credence to CSF as not-wolf, vs if menalque flips wolf that puts CSF back into contention as a potential wolf partner. so it helps clarify the gamestate there, as well.

i don't think there's as clear cut a case on dunn or klick. i don't think resolving dunn's slot is as helpful as menalque's would be. klick has been on the table as a suspicion all game from a lot of people, but again i don't think it's as clear-cut. i think menalque is the best vote.

sorry if you're town, menalque. but i think you get it too.

[Klick]

cassowary's posts read to me like she's trying to present an aesthetic or achieve some sort of goal instead of finding scum

[cassowary]

klick's posts read to me like they're trying to come up with a reason not to listen to me instead of voting for obvious choice menalque

[Menalque]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

[Klick]

If I wanted to make up a reason I'd write a couple of wallposts with too many words about my reads to fake depth, all conveniently pointing towards the goal of what I want to happen

[Menalque]

Also if I’m defending a buddy, I don’t say “well I don’t think they’re town or scum really so I’m not voting them”

I hard defend them if I defend them, and I don’t see how I did that

[SCP 682]

klick's posts read to me like they're trying to come up with a reason not to listen to me instead of voting for obvious choice menalque

i still think ur mafia but also ur working towards helping kill wolves so I'll let u in on a secret - Klick is a likely partner showing intentional ignorance of menalques behavior to force the position of not scumreading the slot.

[cassowary]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

i mean, i just don't believe you - it's not that i think you defended catboi just because you were partners or whatever, but i don't buy this. 'i would have known acting this way would look suspicious so i wouldn't have done it that way if i were scum' is just WIFOM - maybe you are scum and knew this and intended on taking refuge in audacity and using this defense if catboi died! who knows

If I wanted to make up a reason I'd write a couple of wallposts with too many words about my reads to fake depth, all conveniently pointing towards the goal of what I want to happen

"i haven't looked at the catboi/menalque interactions very much"

"ok here are a bunch of them, there are a lot, here is what i think about it"

"wow way to post way too many words to fake depth, isn't this contrived"

[SCP 682]

mafia on wolf violence is fun tho pog

[cassowary]

i wish i was mafia this game would probably be a lot more fun

[SCP 682]

cass has shown more depth than most players, despite likely being mafia, and im not even that sure on that read atp based on their last appeal to me about my read.
Discrediting the case theyve presented isn't going to work.
Demonstrating a town mindset of wanting to solve the game and not just wanting to prevent your own elimination is what is being sought out
Mena iirc didnt give this much of a shit about FoSes on him in KTANE or at the very least he reacted much differently when he was in the process of being mislimmed.

(Dont quote me i need to verify and if i am wrong mena is fully able to prove it with quotes)

[SCP 682]

i wish i was mafia this game would probably be a lot more fun

ngl lowkey a townslip bc theres no way mafia is having fun rn with 2 members down lol

[Klick]

klick's posts read to me like they're trying to come up with a reason not to listen to me instead of voting for obvious choice menalque

i still think ur mafia but also ur working towards helping kill wolves so I'll let u in on a secret - Klick is a likely partner showing intentional ignorance of menalques behavior to force the position of not scumreading the slot.

I find it preposterous that you think either mine or Mena's play is that of a scumteam that is aiming to win this game

I am trying to solve despite this game being misery to play, you just don't like it

[Klick]

i wish i was mafia this game would probably be a lot more fun

ngl lowkey a townslip bc theres no way mafia is having fun rn with 2 members down lol

Cass is like the 4th person to say this today

[Klick]

Maybe the game is just *not very fun*