Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[VP Baltar]

Enchant
Fey
LavarManos
marcistar
Rhyme and Reason
SirCakez
takotsubo syndrome
VP Baltar


Scum in here, maybe?

Like all the scum or a scum?

Don't think you ever answered this either gorilla. If I missed it, pls quote.

[Bell]

Still skimming, but is anyone else getting the feeling from the last couple of pages that Kovu really wants someone to scumread me for a lack of activity, and is getting frustrated noone is biting?

Wants literally anyone but Bell to be the yeet.

I mean, you are correct in that she has openly stated she doesn't want to elim Bell today. That's not really a secret.

The question follows: are you postulating that they are scum together?

Because that seems like such an over the top surface-level sort of worldbuilding that means you're either putting no thought into the game at all or are scum.

I'm saying if Bell flips scum, it makes Kovu look worse. Like, I explicitly said that. That's not world building, it's trying to read the game state (and maybe kick a little sand to see what stirs up).

You think I'm dumb, then lim Bell and call for my head tomorrow.

Why do you want me dead again?

[gorilla]

Enchant
Fey
LavarManos
marcistar
Rhyme and Reason
SirCakez
takotsubo syndrome
VP Baltar


Scum in here, maybe?

Like all the scum or a scum?

Don't think you ever answered this either gorilla. If I missed it, pls quote.

Yeah, because it wasn't worth elaborating on.

[Enchant]

I hate this game so much right now, know what, I'm taking a page out of enchant's book, and I shall do absolutely nothing, and guess what, you can have fun with Val who hasn't posted in 2 days and all the others not even attempting to play the game, I'm so freaking over this

But i am not doing nothing, i just saving posts so i would't hit restriction.

[VP Baltar]

Why do you want me dead again?

I think you are wall paper to the extreme this game. you're not really taking stances. Most reads you've given seemed couched in "it could be this, but it could also be that!"

Also, last game we played, pressure just rolled off your back like water. I'll say as scum that game, it was extremely frustrating! You didn't care if people voted you and it made it extremely hard to get you as a miselim because people could feel your towniness.

This game, when people vote you, you're explicitly telling them "you're voting town", which is the exact opposite of not caring.

Then there are the wolfy pop ins to talk shit that is kind of meaningless and not trying to solve.

It all adds up to not a great look.

@gorilla - it's a pretty straightforward question. Why are you being obstinate?

[Val89]

I don't even see the motivation for Val to point this out, perhaps because Kovu called them out specifically by name and it bothered them, but instead of directly asking Kovu about that, they asked the crowd instead. It's not strange per se, but it's not direct either which could be either preference in being indirect or because they want something else out of their post and others responing to it.
The way they phrased it seemed to be that Kovu was specifically trying to kill them, but there's little reason from that perspective to suspect one player is having it out for one specific player when there are plenty of other players that you could go for. There's even more interest toward other inactives from other player statements. It could be a mistake of ego, but I fin it either poorly worded or poorly thought out.

I also see Kovu revote LavarManos, and my recollection was that the genesis of that read was that Lavar had

dared

to not call me scummy, and the fact they even considered me 'nulltown' must be evidence of TMI, and out of all the reads and justifications given, that was the one that warranted Kovu's vote. The very fact that comprehensive list of leads came shortly after I decided I didn't think a comprehensive reads list was a good idea in this setup felt like a pointed rejection of that premise, same with Datisi, whom, spoiler alert, I don't exactly trust right now.

So yeah, maybe it is ego, but it does appear Kovu has somewhat of a preoccupation with my slot.

[Bell]

1. This might have been true 7 pages ago.
2. Presently, I'm pretty town now. I wasn't 7 pages ago.
3. I always do this. Because I feel it helps to let people know what they're voting in case they don't know.
4. I get annoyed occasionally, I've done this before and I'll do it after this game too.
5. Skipping to the Gorilla. It's you asking them if, in a list of more than 7 players if they think there is exactly one scum in there and that's what they were thinking or if there were more. It's a dense question.

[Bell]

I don't even see the motivation for Val to point this out, perhaps because Kovu called them out specifically by name and it bothered them, but instead of directly asking Kovu about that, they asked the crowd instead. It's not strange per se, but it's not direct either which could be either preference in being indirect or because they want something else out of their post and others responing to it.
The way they phrased it seemed to be that Kovu was specifically trying to kill them, but there's little reason from that perspective to suspect one player is having it out for one specific player when there are plenty of other players that you could go for. There's even more interest toward other inactives from other player statements. It could be a mistake of ego, but I fin it either poorly worded or poorly thought out.

I also see Kovu revote LavarManos, and my recollection was that the genesis of that read was that Lavar had

dared

to not call me scummy, and the fact they even considered me 'nulltown' must be evidence of TMI, and out of all the reads and justifications given, that was the one that warranted Kovu's vote. The very fact that comprehensive list of leads came shortly after I decided I didn't think a comprehensive reads list was a good idea in this setup felt like a pointed rejection of that premise, same with Datisi, whom, spoiler alert, I don't exactly trust right now.

So yeah, maybe it is ego, but it does appear Kovu has somewhat of a preoccupation with my slot.

Kovu town does this. *shrug*. I would suggest you look elsewhere, I think they're town. But you do you.

[gorilla]

@gorilla - it's a pretty straightforward question. Why are you being obstinate?

Because I think it's self-evident what I meant with a little bit of critical thinking and given that you're bringing it back up to passive-aggressively attack me, I really don't care to answer. You either think you're being clever and trying to trap me or are being intentionally malicious, but in either case it's a waste of my time. Part of me says scum wouldn't be so inflammatory toward every single detractor this early on, but at this point I don't find this worth bothering with, so I'm going to do something else instead.

[VP Baltar]

@gorilla - it's a pretty straightforward question. Why are you being obstinate?

Because I think it's self-evident what I meant with a little bit of critical thinking and given that you're bringing it back up to passive-aggressively attack me, I really don't care to answer. You either think you're being clever and trying to trap me or are being intentionally malicious, but in either case it's a waste of my time. Part of me says scum wouldn't be so inflammatory toward every single detractor this early on, but at this point I don't find this worth bothering with, so I'm going to do something else instead.

I try not to make assumptions about people's meanings and would rather ask "dense" questions, as Bell put it, than to take an implication as a given.

You've spent more energy not answering than simply stating clearly what you mean.

How many scum do you think are in that list? 1,2,3,4,5? This isn't passive aggressive, I actually want to know your meaning and thoughts. Christ.

[VP Baltar]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

I've never seen Enchant do a goddamn thing as either alignment.

This is wildly incorrect, ftr. Enchant town definitely tries in his own way and it is easy to see his mind working in his limited posts when he's town.

This game, Enchant is doing nothing and is saving his posts out of fear of running over today (lol).

[Bell]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

I've never seen Enchant do a goddamn thing as either alignment.

This is wildly incorrect, ftr. Enchant town definitely tries in his own way and it is easy to see his mind working in his limited posts when he's town.

This game, Enchant is doing nothing and is saving his posts out of fear of running over today (lol).

You sound like Pooky. It was a joke. But Enchant is hard to read. Pretending otherwise does not make it easier to read them.

[Gammagooey]

I hate this game so much right now, know what, I'm taking a page out of enchant's book, and I shall do absolutely nothing, and guess what, you can have fun with Val who hasn't posted in 2 days and all the others not even attempting to play the game, I'm so freaking over this

I know you're being sarcastic here but I do highly advise just taking a break and doing something else for a few hours at least, maybe even most of today
Mafia games are meant to be fun so if you aren't having fun leave it alone and come back later. I get that not being able to interact with like half the game is frustrating but people are hanging out with family and going out of town for the weekend and it's fine if they don't have time to meaningfully check in 'til monday, as long as they put in effort and participate after that. Not everyone's going to play the game at the pace you'd like and that's gonna have to be ok.

If you wanna bitch at me for it sure b/c I'm not doing either of those things and am instead just visiting my apt's pool later and relaxing, but either take a break or try to focus your annoyance to me - if you want to throw a few questions at me I don't mind rereading a person or two and sharing thoughts on 'em to bounce off of ya.
For instance I think VPB's #356 that you dislike is Null and could come from VPB of either alignment, and have a very dumb reason to slightly townread VPB that I can share if you'd like to be disappointed in me.


@Bell you seem to be pretty self-aware of your meta and how you're playing (explicitly saying this isn't anti-spew in #323 for example) - Why make the *miss* posts/mentions to LLD & me at all? Like it just comes off as annoying and I don't see how/why you'd think anyone would think it's something you'd only do as town.
Also, is #399 just your personal notes/thoughts on Val/Kovu? I have no idea what you're trying to get across with that post.

@Meuh - Do you have any more detailed thoughts on VPB atm from his earlier posts? I wouldn't mind hearing 'em if you do.

[Enchant]

I hate this game so much right now, know what, I'm taking a page out of enchant's book, and I shall do absolutely nothing, and guess what, you can have fun with Val who hasn't posted in 2 days and all the others not even attempting to play the game, I'm so freaking over this

I know you're being sarcastic here

lol no, it's serious manner

[Meuh]

@Meuh - Do you have any more detailed thoughts on VPB atm from his earlier posts? I wouldn't mind hearing 'em if you do.

Meh as I've said before not really. I think some things levied against him early on (like being too careless with posts) didn't really mean much.
I'll have to ISO him probably, a lot of the points against him come down to meta, which I have no knowledge of.
His recent posting is weird and decently scummy. I trust the people on him a good amount and think a wagon on him is preferable to one on Marci or Bell so I'm chilling with it.
I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum, even with a scumread on Bell. That confuses me from VPB.

[gorilla]

@gorilla - it's a pretty straightforward question. Why are you being obstinate?

Because I think it's self-evident what I meant with a little bit of critical thinking and given that you're bringing it back up to passive-aggressively attack me, I really don't care to answer. You either think you're being clever and trying to trap me or are being intentionally malicious, but in either case it's a waste of my time. Part of me says scum wouldn't be so inflammatory toward every single detractor this early on, but at this point I don't find this worth bothering with, so I'm going to do something else instead.

I try not to make assumptions about people's meanings and would rather ask "dense" questions, as Bell put it, than to take an implication as a given.

You've spent more energy not answering than simply stating clearly what you mean.

How many scum do you think are in that list? 1,2,3,4,5? This isn't passive aggressive, I actually want to know your meaning and thoughts. Christ.

Was a rough guess at a POE.

[VP Baltar]

I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum

Why are you townreading Kovu exactly? How much experience do you have with Andante?


@gorilla, thank you for answering. Can you tell me why you think Fey or R&R are scummy? I'd ask about me too, but I think your answer is "I don't agree with how VP thinks and approaches the game", which is whatever.

[marcistar]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

What changed? We you not just shooting down someone's scum read on her?

It might be a shock to some people, but i can actually change my mind sometimes!!!!

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

Why did this suddenly occur to you?
I find this a bit townie because it seems so out of the blue (not rlly bc meuh), but still why

i decided to open up her iso actually, and then i read, and then i was like "this is mostly townreading people" and "her vote on you looked like bandwagon"

I think there’s scum (probably like 2) in tako/Enchant/Lambda/Lavar/RR/Val. I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense? and those are the 6 that either haven’t said much or haven’t done that much that stuck to me as indicative of much.

i haven't really paid attention to rhyme and reason that much, they aren't completely dead like some of those other names imo but nothing theyve done has really screamed yet, yknow? what do you see wrong with them rn?

You could also be scum but like I said before, that’s not something I’m particularly keen on figuring out at the moment

dw ill help u
im not scum, there u go

- -

I think the last few pages have been a bit of a mess, and idk what to think about it.. enchants prob just making excuses so that he doesnt have to post tho LMAO
vip balter does make a goodish point about bell in 404, i feel like bell has mostly been focused on townreading people instead of really trying to find scum, but everyone is like jumping at him so hard im not sure about if i want to vote for him i feel so bad for him i think bell is a pretty easy elim for people to be trying to achieve here, so maybe vip balter being so focused on it isnt such a great look for him.
i just... keep forgetting about vals posts, idk what hes on about rn, it seems like he thinks that kovu has something against him, which i dont think it looks like kovu does but i think vals just overimagining things. i think that kind of awareness could be either or for val, i dont think i've ever really seen his scumgame though. looking back on him, 177 is the only post that really stands out to me about him.

[Meuh]

I think there’s scum (probably like 2) in tako/Enchant/Lambda/Lavar/RR/Val. I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense? and those are the 6 that either haven’t said much or haven’t done that much that stuck to me as indicative of much.

i haven't really paid attention to rhyme and reason that much, they aren't completely dead like some of those other names imo but nothing theyve done has really screamed yet, yknow? what do you see wrong with them rn?

I feel about the same as you about them, which is why they're in my POE
This game feels town-led so the slots that aren't involved much feel like they have high scum equity
I feel similar about Val than about RR (though Val has done more I think, it just hasn't stuck to me)

[Meuh]

I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum

Why are you townreading Kovu exactly? How much experience do you have with Andante?

I think I played like half a day with Adante before they replaced out of a game, don't remember much from them.
My read is just based on current gameplay. Kovu feels transparent and well-intentioned.
I feel there'd be some sort of tell that they're scum out by now if they were, and there's nothing.

[gorilla]

I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum

Why are you townreading Kovu exactly? How much experience do you have with Andante?


@gorilla, thank you for answering. Can you tell me why you think Fey or R&R are scummy? I'd ask about me too, but I think your answer is "I don't agree with how VP thinks and approaches the game", which is whatever.

I don't have an explicit scumread on them, I just don't have any reason to townread them so far. Rhyme & Reason feels a little hollow with their posting, although with only 6 posts I'm not jumping to any conclusions there.

You were largely in the same bracket of "no impression/underwhelmed" until your recent streak of posting which I disliked.

[VP Baltar]

and like ok fine you don't have the same meta read as i do thats not scummy, but... i also don't quite get it cause like... you're saying that you think he lacks confidence as town and that you think his mafia game is similar... so why is him not responding to votes more likely to come from scum than town? like whats the difference there that you expect to see?

it sounds like you're saying "you're like this as town" -> "i expect you to be like this as mafia too" -> ??? -> "so the way you acted makes you scum"

and i don't get what the missing step there is

I don't really see why it has to be

so, so, so

hard for you to understand what im seeing... but okay!

datisi being town just seems more unlikely, i think theres more benefits for scum him to ignore the votes on him.. whats so hard to understand about it???

I think he seems unbothered by the votes which suggests he has no hidden guilt, which would be a reason to feel nervous.

Do you have other reasons you townread Datisi or just this?

Also, have you played with datisi before or have any familiarity with him?

[VP Baltar]

@gorilla - it's a pretty straightforward question. Why are you being obstinate?

Because I think it's self-evident what I meant with a little bit of critical thinking and given that you're bringing it back up to passive-aggressively attack me, I really don't care to answer. You either think you're being clever and trying to trap me or are being intentionally malicious, but in either case it's a waste of my time. Part of me says scum wouldn't be so inflammatory toward every single detractor this early on, but at this point I don't find this worth bothering with, so I'm going to do something else instead.

I try not to make assumptions about people's meanings and would rather ask "dense" questions, as Bell put it, than to take an implication as a given.

You've spent more energy not answering than simply stating clearly what you mean.

How many scum do you think are in that list? 1,2,3,4,5? This isn't passive aggressive, I actually want to know your meaning and thoughts. Christ.

Was a rough guess at a POE.

Follow up, you have a town feeling on the people outside this PoE?

[gorilla]

Do you have other reasons you townread Datisi or just this?

Also, have you played with datisi before or have any familiarity with him?

I was sort of offput by him returning with a vote on marci at the time but when I reread it I liked him in the argument more. I wouldn't say I'm highly confident in my read but he seems fine.

And no, I played with Bell and LLD here in DEFCON 5.0 but that's it.

[gorilla]

Follow up, you have a town feeling on the people outside this PoE?

To varying degrees. Of course some of it is just a loose gut feeling, because it's early. But it's just a preliminary guess, anyway.