Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Bell]

@Bell you seem to be pretty self-aware of your meta and how you're playing (explicitly saying this isn't anti-spew in #323 for example) - Why make the *miss* posts/mentions to LLD & me at all? Like it just comes off as annoying and I don't see how/why you'd think anyone would think it's something you'd only do as town.
Also, is #399 just your personal notes/thoughts on Val/Kovu? I have no idea what you're trying to get across with that post.

1. I already answered this. I like to point out when people are wrong and I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value. Especially when it would save them some agony. An example would be (if Baltar is town) that they can't tell the difference between honest reads and fake ones. Fence sitting/hedging is also just uncertainty staring you in the face, which is what town usually face because they don't know who the scum are.
2. Baltar asked me to break it down for them. I broke down Val's post and what I thought about it.

I'm pretty good with Kovu town and Fire town so far. Kovu is kind of comforting in how easy they are to read. Uh, I forgot who brought this up, but the picking strong town reads is actually a playstyle thing. I said it in the last game I played. I usually grab 3-4 strong town reads per day phase and replace when they die (they usually do). It's a meta fail. But not an unexpected one. Ah, it was Marci.

[Prism]

SirCakez and Lady Lambdadelta have been prodded. As a result of the Memorial Day accommodation, they have 48 hours to post before I begin searching for a replacement.

[VP Baltar]

@ gorilla - Glad you brought up LLD, because that's a headscratcher when I look at your list. You say people like Fey, RR and myself landed in your PoE because we hadn't made an impression on you one way or the other, which I can understand.

But, I'm slightly confused how LLD made an impression on you (or dwlee or Val for that matter, but let's talk LLD since you have experience with them).

[Bell]

As a reminder, I usually just wouldn't engage and solve on my own. Lukewarm asked me to handicap myself by answering people's questions when I town it up on my own but have had nothing but bad experiences when talking directly with people in games of mafia.
Though I'm towning it up on my own now. Irregardless of the engagement.

My awkward start was just a remnant of how I play as a power role before defaulting back to being me. Which I'm fully in now.

[SirCakez]

Im still out on vacation but I'm gonna try and skim to offer you guys something before I can give real content when I'm home Tuesday

[marcistar]

I think there’s scum (probably like 2) in tako/Enchant/Lambda/Lavar/RR/Val. I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense? and those are the 6 that either haven’t said much or haven’t done that much that stuck to me as indicative of much.

i haven't really paid attention to rhyme and reason that much, they aren't completely dead like some of those other names imo but nothing theyve done has really screamed yet, yknow? what do you see wrong with them rn?

I feel about the same as you about them, which is why they're in my POE
This game feels town-led so the slots that aren't involved much feel like they have high scum equity
I feel similar about Val than about RR (though Val has done more I think, it just hasn't stuck to me)

mmhmm, i get this..
i honestly don't think that val would be able to "keep up the act" for long if he was scum.

[Bell]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

[SirCakez]

nah I feel bad and it's not that much to read
also I got prodded so I feel I should post something

[marcistar]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

dw bell, his scumbuddies prob just warned him his name was brought up a few times

[gorilla]

@ gorilla - Glad you brought up LLD, because that's a headscratcher when I look at your list. You say people like Fey, RR and myself landed in your PoE because we hadn't made an impression on you one way or the other, which I can understand.

But, I'm slightly confused how LLD made an impression on you (or dwlee or Val for that matter, but let's talk LLD since you have experience with them).

This is a case where Im not sure how valuable putting those reads under the microscope is because as said it's based on gut, reasons are thin, and I could easily change my opinion pretty quickly. Something about the feel of LLD disliking people putting her in reads lists with 0 posts didn't feel like something scum would focus on. Her posting was not particularly high impact but I would've anticipated her trying to make a stronger impact as scum.

Again, this is admittedly a very weak gut feeling. You're asking questions about what amounts to the wobbly grey area in the middle of my reads where I'm kind of guessing right now, so I'm not going to be able to give strong reasoning for anything. I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of asking me why someone is more nulltown than nullscum to me.

[gorilla]

I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value.

I mean, why would you expect people to do that in a game of mafia?

[SirCakez]

i was wondering why every fucking post was a wall post and then I remembered this game's post limits

[Bell]

I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value.

I mean, why would you expect people to do that in a game of mafia?

That's the joke. You can open wolf or open town and nobody gets it.
Well, my playstyle is to get town read, plus other idiosyncracies supposedly i'm "very self-aware"

I already claimed a PR, you guys should probably vote elsewhere or explain why you aren't.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of asking me why someone is more nulltown than nullscum to me.

Mostly assessing for internal logic. I hear you that it's hard to sort people D1. It mostly piqued my interest that your PoE was so narrow at this point. Certainly much more clearly defined than I feel like I'd be willing to commit to at this point. You also gave me shit for "world building" because I flagged what I saw as a potential associative in a scum!Bell world, so that obviously makes me curious on the nuances of how you arrived at your PoE.

I'm not sure how you could have a stronger impression about LLD at that point of the game than me, but we can leave it at gut for now.

@Bell - you've been softing PR forever basically. At least, that was my sort of takeaway from you calling yourself town as a kind of threat to people voting you. Is that something you do as town typically?

[Enchant]

I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value.

I mean, why would you expect people to do that in a game of mafia?

That's the joke. You can open wolf or open town and nobody gets it.
Well, my playstyle is to get town read, plus other idiosyncracies supposedly i'm "very self-aware"

I already claimed a PR, you guys should probably vote elsewhere or explain why you aren't.

What PR

[marcistar]

why do you need to know what bells pr is enchant -.-

[SirCakez]

yes. i was looking at his posts and the thought i was having was "get to the point already".

i know you're going to ask about it again so

- "but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly"
- "I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least."
- "I was put off by you immediately talking about which posts pinged you town/scum. And the tone you used really felt a bit odd because your reasoning seemed to consist of short, vague bursts of words. For example, "hints at actual scum hunting", "pretty solid vibes", ...
Those phrases had the effect of feeling not-genuine to me."

^^ the entirety of this last quote could be expressed in much less words. too much padding.

- "I don't see why early bandwagon votes are that bad, but I do think it still is generally thought of as "scummy"."
- "Tako genuinely could be scum though. I can agree that the content is not great there."

what i mean by "aren't directly related to solving the game" is that the idea that the person wants to express can be expressed in 10 words but they use 100 words to express it. it comes across as a fake attempt to boost their word-count while not adding content to the word count. if i get bored by reading the posts, it's usually a sign this is happening.

this attack on Val seems so forced. it seems pretty obviously to just be their posting style and it feels like Datisi just wants something to press on.
and I'm not feeling his excuses for being awkward early on. he's always awkward but this and some other posts feel outright scummy not just typical awkwardness.

i have a strong desire to kill the two people who wrote reads lists on page 6 and below and chose to include me on them with 0 posts.

LLD is town LOL

I would like to point out that Marci voted Datisi in post 19 saying "I THINK HE COULD BE SCUM"

But the reason being presented once he became a real wagon was because he was ignoring votes - which distinctly cannot be the reason why she voted him originally in post 19, because Datisi had zero posts between Baltar casting the first vote on Datisi and Marci voting Datisi

UNVOTE:
VOTE: marci

Doing my daily catch up currently, but I think fire's exchange with marci probing their thought process and how it doesn't actually track (posts 84 and 86), as well as Marci's tepid response, combined with luke's point here are pretty solid reasons to think Marci could be scum who got a little too overconfident early.

this post is kinda ringing alarm bells for me
this feels like such a weaksauce vote for Baltar it's basically just sheeping Luke and fire
marci doesn't even feel great but Baltar is inspiring no confidence here

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

Do you think it means anything in terms of her alignment this game?

Marci and I tend to read each other poorly, especially early on in games. A whole lot of inaccurate scumreading.
I still don't think it's unrealistic for Marci to feel neut about me here though.
What does feel off about it is her using this read on me to push back on Datisi. Even if she does feel neutral about me, I don't think she says this:

i also *shocker here* dont agree with meuh feeling off yet, i think she hasnt done much alignment indicative yet and i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

This does not really seem like a way to go after Datisi that I expect town!Marci to do.

Honestly my approach on reading Marci as of late is to just not do it on day 1
It's not worth the effort in forming a read that'll probably be poor and I'd rather spend that time and energy somewhere else.
I think I'm decent at reading Marci later on in the game with flips having happened so I'd rather do it then. (viewtopic.php?p=12746354#p12746354)
There's a need for it here though because of the wagon on her, and while I don't feel great about her, it's not as strong of a feeling as the one on Lavar.

Also I just found out you can highlight a part of a post before quoting it and it'll only quote that part??? That's so useful how did I not know this

if Marci is scum this is probably scum too

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

what is the "more" you are looking for? more content? it was like a few hours into the game when you posted that

More content, more justification for the vote, anything telling of their alignment. I think their vote on Datisi was scummy. I wanted to throw a vote on them for pressure's sake.

however this is a solid answer to my question

maybe sircakez but thats because i don't like his starting post.

what was even wrong with my opening post?? I thought it was funny

Semi worried this is a noraa situation though.

I also don't like Baltar throwing hesitance into this wagon here

Elsewhere...

-Certain Dunn posts are making feel this is his town game. I usually catch onto him fairly quickly when he is scum and I am not feeling those vibes here.
-I feel okay townbinning Kovu based on page 7
-i'm seeing LavarManos votes and honestly the slot just feels like LHF in a game full of killer mafia players and I'm not interested in that wagon at all
-none of Bell's posts feel good like at all. he could def be scum too.

UNVOTE: til I'm read up

[SirCakez]

i only got to the top of page 10 but I have to go ugh

[Enchant]

why do you need to know what bells pr is enchant -.-

Because i am PR too

[marcistar]

maybe sircakez but thats because i don't like his starting post.

what was even wrong with my opening post?? I thought it was funny

can i even say fully what im thinking? it feels mean..

I'm hoarding all my posts this game so their value goes up

all ill say is that it seems like u were premaking excuses

it is funny yes, it makes it seem like ur playing both stocks and mafia at the same time but yeah

why do you need to know what bells pr is enchant -.-

Because i am PR too

and why did u need to say u r?
i still dont know why u would need to know what bell is r u hoping to catch him out in a lie or smtn? i don't see the goal of this otherwise..

[Bell]

Sure, my role is confirmable after tonight assuming my target doesn't die.
So, this is a for sure loser of a vote.

As for hinting at being a PR, tbh, not really. I usually act this way when someone suspects me, there's a reason I like to keep votes on me low as town and it's largely because I react badly to being scum read.
Your lack of an unvote is noted. It's not a threat, just an observation in the big book of Baltar.

[Kovu]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

exactly my same thought. especially when you're a slot that has no content, and what is there isn't great.. then you're able to come in and drop a bunch of thoughts when prodded? it's like, how can you give this much effort now.. but nothing earlier??

[Kovu]

LLD is town LOL

Also, what in the actual...

[Kovu]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

dw bell, his scumbuddies prob just warned him his name was brought up a few times

weird thing to say

[Bell]

People that know LLD tend to treat them differently. Players rarely treat her as just another mafia player. Well, most people treat people like not just another mafia player when they get to know them a few times, but it deviates a lot differently and in weird directions.