Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Datisi]

ok i reskimmed the eod of coalition

he was very much less present (though he did say he was vla) and the situation in that eod and this eod is somewhat different

not convinced on std!town but i can lay off him *for now* and see how i feel elsewhere

[Datisi]

yeah, completely shutting the door on voting hutmeil is certainly A Choice

[Aristeia]

the combination of him making the choice he did at 5-5 and pushing at Penguin and then later asking me if we should go on Mala after I've already signaled I want pengy feels very much like a town mindset.

Like it's one thing to sack a partner for towncred by putting him at 6-5 or 6-4 where it's very awk for peng to re-enter but to then ask about whether we should go somewhere else after you've already buried your partner feels like you're throwing away some of the towncred you've gotten for ?? The flexibility feels non-informed to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean I think I been pretty *okay* at spotting town!gamma from scum!gamma. As I already mentioned I don't think Andante/Gamma share the same alignment and I feel like one of them are more than likely scum.

If i had to do a 3:1 EoL with them - id pick gamma for the scum over andante.

so i dont think gamma is a bad vote

Again, Am I wrong tho? I had you right in schadd's game even tho I was an alt. Then you replaced out and I felt bad, but i still remained tunneled on your slot.

You have a weird non-passion when you are playing scum. I don't see passion here, but I saw a hint when you were interacting with andante, but then it felt flat

I could be wrong. Maybe you are both town then, but i seriously doubt it.

Also it doesn't seem like you are doing much to sort me so w/e

idg why there has to be scum in me/Andante
And like, I’m kinda dealing with having been completely shut down on actually-good reads in a past game, so does that maybe explain why my passion for solving is diminished?

[Gamma Emerald]

Again if I had a choice between Andante Gamma i'd yeet gamma b/c i think andante is town so

what if nobody is actually offering that choice and there isn't really any reason to be choosing between those two names

I wanna ask, what made you decide to hunt outside your initial scum pool from yesterday?

[catboi]

Vote Count 2.02

GeorgeBailey (2):

fireisredsir, implosion

Malakittens (2):

Andante, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (2):

Datisi, Malakittens

fireisredsir (1):

Save The Dragons

Not Voting (4):

Aristeia, GeorgeBailey, hutmeil, Something_Smart

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is July 17 at 8:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-07-17 20:00:00)

[Save The Dragons]

oh, also, if anyone could really dumb down the difference between this std and scum!std for me, that would be grand

the greenness of my role pm

[fireisredsir]

Again if I had a choice between Andante Gamma i'd yeet gamma b/c i think andante is town so

what if nobody is actually offering that choice and there isn't really any reason to be choosing between those two names

I wanna ask, what made you decide to hunt outside your initial scum pool from yesterday?

my opinions on who is scum changed due to the flips and some rereading and some things that people said early today

[Save The Dragons]

i have like no read on GeorgeBailey so it could just be him

im having doubts on my fire read and i'm not sure where to go from there because i don't think i can articulate it very well

VOTE: Georgebailey for now but im aware he might be V/LA atm so that sucks but i'm also significantly less interested in malakittens and gamma

[Malakittens]

Meow

[implosion]

Mala, how do you feel about STD's 1705/1709?

And also, do you have any feelings on how yesterday ultimately went down? On the Penguin wagon, or the hutmeil counterwagon, or the late counterwagon on you? It feels like most analysis so far today has focused on the wagonomics of yesterday, and you haven't touched on that discussion.

[Datisi]

i have like no read on GeorgeBailey so it could just be him

why did you vote george instead of me

why is malakittens town

[Aristeia]

do you still think George is town Dats?

[Datisi]

definitely not as certain as i was yesterday, no

going back to check, 1228 was made right after vpb/implo/me voted for penguin. so if george wanted to start laying down foundation for a possible bus if need be, he had a chance to do that there. and i feel like scum!george is at least somewhat of a busser, as far as memory serves.

that said, other than That One Thing, his content is severely lacking, and i don't feel too much confidence in the above as a result. so i need to see more.

[Datisi]

Andante
Aristeia
Datisi
fireisredsir
Gamma Emerald
GeorgeBailey
hutmeil
implosion
Malakittens
Something_Smart
Vulture

can be town for now - {andante, ari, hut, implo, s_s, std}
leaves - {fire, gamma, george, mala}

there's differences within tiers but i don't think they're overly important right now.

i'm not sure what to think of this because gut is still telling me that the penguin wagon was Weird(tm), but i can't find solid reasons for anyone to be scum in the upper tier. except for sorta std, but also he has townie stuff too so lol.

ari, how townie is gamma right now to you, disregarding the vca points?

[Aristeia]

I am pretty bad at catching people who bus tbh >___>

I don't really see anything that is scummy about gamma? he's done some townie things and I still feel p good about him; do you have an example of a game where he busses D1 ? I've always had a mental model of him preferring to vote the townie if presented with a choice of 1 scum 1 town and his vote matters.

Like I'm fine voting out George if he continues to ghost the game ?

[Datisi]

I don't really see anything that is scummy about gamma? he's done some townie things and I still feel p good about him; do you have an example of a game where he busses D1 ? I've always had a mental model of him preferring to vote the townie if presented with a choice of 1 scum 1 town and his vote matters.

the issue is i don't see anything townie? what do you consider townie from him

the only game i know of / can remember where gamma bussed day 1 was this: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=84622

but that game was a while ago (and i was barely reading it at the time lol), so it was not on my mind when i was going though gamma's iso wrt the penguin vote. the analysis i did on it is not meta related, anyway.

[Andante]

I am pretty bad at catching people who bus tbh >___>

why? Penguin wasn't even a hard scum member to bus... he was doing nothing, town was calling him on it, it's not really hard to go "yeah maf would be fine bussing in that situation"
this isn't even about "having to catch someone who bussed" maf really couldn't just defend Penguin unless Penguin was going to really change how he played, which isn't very likely for anyone..

[fireisredsir]

as someone who thought gamma was scum yesterday, we can revisit that maybe if we haven't won by yeeting george+mala. not really interested in going there today

[Aristeia]

I am pretty bad at catching people who bus tbh >___>

why? Penguin wasn't even a hard scum member to bus... he was doing nothing, town was calling him on it, it's not really hard to go "yeah maf would be fine bussing in that situation"
this isn't even about "having to catch someone who bussed" maf really couldn't just defend Penguin unless Penguin was going to really change how he played, which isn't very likely for anyone..

I mean you literally hard defended penguin

for posting a funny gif

so why can't a mafia player also hard defend penguin and decide to vote someone else?

[Aristeia]

like it's one thing to defend your teammate if

nobody is defending your teammate

and there is no viable counterwagon, then I think it makes sense to bus.

but if there are

townies defending your teammate for really dubious reasons

that gives you cover to also throw up some crappy defense to blend in and push for a townie elimination esp if there is a viable wagon on a townie as well?

[Aristeia]

like if Andante/George are both town and both defending penguin for p bad reasons, I don't see why scum would decide oh I'm going to bus rather than help swing the wagon towards someone else and maybe get a misyeet off?

scum need misyeets to win and the best way to get misyeets is to deny information to the town by running up people who are not scum.

[Aristeia]

the issue is i don't see anything townie? what do you consider townie from him

I thought the way he flipped out at Andante making a joke about Ocho was kind of townie - he seemed pretty upset by that and I associate him being angry about silly things to be a townie trait.

[Andante]

like if Andante/George are both town

oh am I the next lim after yall get your george lim?