Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Confidently Wrong]

Ugh toffee u gonna vote here?

What I said bout kenny d1 and d2 still stands. Theyre recalcitrance to vote loft. The fact that they parked their vote on eira d1 and didnt vote d2. Many other things. If cw is scum what are the chances that they rolecopped lowell? Other cw reads have changed but lowell has remained the one constant. Cw townread loft, only voice against gamma elim, votes lowell rather than gamma. Now towreads kenny after being onboard that wagon D2.

Sort these slots. Im where I was last time.

to me its like "i was wrong on these 2 scum slots but this 3rd one I was right all along", which *does* happen in games where someone might have the other part of a solve. I just didnt have the courage to help it flip day 1.

[Confidently Wrong]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89363

had a game finish where i was uhh similarly pushing some wrong reads confidently, my alt in that one is scp 682. notably the push on menalque there as well as the defense of Flavor leaf should stand out as parallels

[Confidently Wrong]

ok lets see if this works bc im tired of no votecounts:

Spoiler: Votecount Settings[/spoiler

Living Players

kennyk
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Confidently Wrong
MalcolmTucker
FancyPants
Irrelephant11
Eiralox

Links

Day 3: Post #1345

[Confidently Wrong]

fixed lol

Spoiler: Votecount Settings

Living Players

kennyk
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Confidently Wrong
MalcolmTucker
FancyPants
Irrelephant11
Eiralox

Links

Day 3: Post #1345

[Confidently Wrong]

fack it doesnt work

kitty can you add that to the OP at the bottom tho lol so i can get my own votecounts


or some1 lend me their program

[Eiralox]

i voted u irrel voted kenny. thats it iirc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will get to this as soon as I can.

Probably tomorrow night

[Lowell]

VOTE: kenny. It's him or CW and I'm tired of arguing with CW.

[Confidently Wrong]

VOTE: kenny. It's him or CW and I'm tired of arguing with CW.

You "arguing" with me lasts a total of a single post with actual points. But please exaggerate and pretend like you have actually tried to engage me on any level.

[Confidently Wrong]

@CW you got me. Scum plan was a Lowell double-bus. *chef's kiss* Stop tunneling bro.

See i would self vote here but i know that no one will listen to me abojt lowell so i want to thunderdome lowell here and now and no one contribute arguments for lowell. Let him make his case. I will SHOW YOU he is scum.

Honestly dude I'm not "making a case" for me being town, that's not how it works. And I've never been more right about a mafia game than this one. Besides, my "case" is that I was right about loftwing and pushed him even after others (you) were saying "oh nothing to see here, great claim!", then joined the push on gamma while others (you, again) were like "weeeelllll, let's give him more time I'm not so sure what about LOWELL???" And I've already heard your awesome response of "WIFOM DOUBLEBUS THATS WHAT YOU WANT US TO THINK OMG" enough that I don't care to hear it again.

sorry - 2 posts with points.

everything else is sarcasm

[Confidently Wrong]

you are more tired of being held accountable for your thought process and being forced to present arguments that involve critical thinking, neither of which you have done.

[Lowell]

I’m remembering why I quit this site for 5 years.

[Lowell]

Just vote me, CW. I’m saying nothing more to you.

[MalcolmTucker]

When's the deadline? Not been too engaged but might try to do a proper scumcase of various players later and see where we sit after that.

[FancyPants]

I'm replacing out unfortunately a serious life situation has come up - the mod just hasn't got to it yet.

I'm sorry everyone.

[FancyPants]

I did PM Kitty, I presume they haven't been online since.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm replacing out unfortunately a serious life situation has come up - the mod just hasn't got to it yet.

I'm sorry everyone.

No need to apologise - stay safe.

[KittyTacky]

fack it doesnt work

kitty can you add that to the OP at the bottom tho lol so i can get my own votecounts


or some1 lend me their program

I didn't do a VC because last time I checked the thread, I didn't notice any votes. Sorry. I will do that though.

FancyPants requested replacement. Also, I don't think you're allowed to talk about replacing out.

kennyk didn't pick up the prod and is being replaced.

VC coming soon.

[KittyTacky]

Flavor 3.1

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is a variant of Linley's Dungeon Crawl [an unremarkable roguelike from the 90s]. It is developed openly and welcomes participation from the community.

As in the original Dungeon Crawl, players are tasked with finding runes to enter the Realm of Zot at the bottom of the dungeon, before returning to the surface with the Orb of Zot. For added difficulty, players can attempt to collect all 15 runes scattered throughout the dungeon.

As outlined in DCSS's design philosophy, the developers strive to create a balanced, tactical game that limits grinding and reliance on out-of-game sources of information in order to progress. The resulting game is more friendly to new players while still requiring a good deal of practice and skill to win.

Features:
* ASCII and tileset versions
* Mouse support
* Online servers where players can watch other games or compete on leaderboards
* Tutorial and in-game hints system
* Wide range of skills, species, backgrounds, and religions offer several play styles
* Optional dungeon branches increase the difficulty for seasoned players

Source: RogueBasin

Votecount 3.1

kennyk

(2): Irrelephant11, Lowell

Confidently Wrong

(1): Eiralox

Not Voting

(5): kennyk, BlueBloodedToffee, Confidently Wrong, MalcolmTucker, FancyPants

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-07-20 21:02:00).

[Eiralox]

uno

Spoiler:

VOTE: confidently wrong
This is mafia, I am very sure of it.

VOTE: fancy pants

Fancy seems town.

Based on?

I believe it, but I have my sights sent on a pair of pants

actually maybe you are correct

VOTE: CSF

boomers annoyingly know what theyre talking about sometimes

i would know, i play with pooky

VOTE: Fredrick

I do not play with secrets

VOTE: Mala

I want pressure on this slot so i can start solving the game from slots i feel Comfortable solving fast

I'm not even sure it's that you're playing "weirdly" though, it's just that you're incredibly willing to hand out a free townread early on without much of a reason for doing so. I understand meta will often come into games and that's fine, but your posts could easily read as an opportunistic attempt to cosy up to Shoshin and get on her side early on if she's town and you're not.

I will probably explain better at a later date.

Your townblock, for what it's worth, gives me a similar fear...we're not that long into the game, I'm wary to put too much faith and trust in anyone at this stage.

This is fair. Does it make you think I'm scum trying to prop up a partner? Or just town who's likely to be wrong? Because, if the latter, it's only dangerous if you think one of my three townreads is scum. Let me know if you think so at any point.
Realistically I don't think we'll manage a consensus 5-6 person townblock with 0 scum. But I do think we can make one with, at most, 1 scum. And that's a pretty valuable potential town tool.

Like I get your paranoia but do you disagree with the concept of a townblock or just that i've picked three names already?

I don't disagree with the idea of a townblock in general, I'm just not too keen on ruling out certain players as mafia early on in D1. I don't particularly scum-read anyone you've put in there so far but we're only a couple of days into the game, ideally nobody should be completely free from pressure.

My gut-feeling right now is one of you/Shoshin could be mafia. Shoshin's push on me was weak and opportunistic, but if they're town and you know they're wrong could be a useful pocket for you, as I've stated. I'm liking your engagement a lot more this page though.

They're both town

Csf locktown

Still gonna tunnel mala until she towntells

loft is town

lets sort by post count

VOTE: kenny
Yolo

VOTE: lowell

Loftwing is town, unvote them and vote scumclaimed lowell

@CW, This is the part where I ask you why Loftwing is town - you ignore me and I don't change my mind.

The claimed mafia lowell spewed them town

@CW, This is the part where I ask you why Loftwing is town - you ignore me and I don't change my mind.

The claimed mafia lowell spewed them town

remind me the scumcase for lowell?

The interaction regarding malcom was essentially outting

Whats funny was that i changed my read on fancy bc of lowell so cheers thanks for the free town

Mala/Lowell/eiralox is a team I'd lock in rn gth

Its probably wrong but i am confident of at least 2

Well I'm confident enough in lowell that I'd veto anyone i believe is spewed town off him, and i even actively townread loft off meta and malcom as well. Kenny i refuse to comment on because he did fool me recently in a somewhat embarassing way.

I think Lowells reaction to a wagon starting on him however should be indicative enough that he isn't solving the game and is self pressing in a scummy way

VOTE: Eiralox

Have it your way. I offered the easy way, let's do the hard way.

VOTE: Loftwing

Subject to change but time to cast a vote somewhere. Not confident their opportunistic jumping around from wagon to wagon is townie. The vote on Mala felt particularly opportunistic as I said earlier on.

I think fundamentally the reasons you are presenting for reading people is flawed and not consistent(results wise) in any way.

So I envision it shall be difficult to convince you similarly to the last time we played together.


Jumping around wagon to wagon is not a scum behavior.

personally i think the game is solved fmpov

with [Lowell/Eira/Mala] as the most likely team

and then as bonus PoE: [BBT/kennyk]

Every other player I feel a confident enough reason to townread them.

kennyk is also never paired with Lowell

I hope that satiates any concerns you have that my read is faulty based on reasoning you think could apply to you. I could go for a townblock including myself, Irrelephant, you(loftwing), CSF, Fredrick, and Fancy Pants

honorary members Shoshin and Malcom

Where in the world are Lowell and Mala

also i fully think shoshin is town and never eliminate and the only reason their reads are so bonkers is because theyre both misclearing the most obvious scum and misreading an easily findable townie for what I believe are incorrect reasons to label someone as mafia.

shoshin please cite a single thought from Eira you thought was towny. Because I guarantee you binned them town for posting a lot and being pushed by someone you are currently confbiasing into a scumteam for defending your top scumread.

VOTE: Confidently Wrong

Ok I'm still going to read you town and carry anyways

If you want to be obtuse, I think you are town because your thoughts are obviously independent and I can trace how you reached conclusions.

I disagree with your conclusions, and think the process is wrong. But its a towny process.

If you want to play with your ego and get mad and vote me for disagreeing with you go ahead, but don't be surprised when it doesn't help win the game for town.

for visibility

I am at a point where I can call every one of these players town with confidence, if I am wrong about *any* of them it is at worst only 1 in my humble opinion.

Loftwing
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Fredrick A Campbell
Cat Scratch Fever
FancyPants
Irrelephant11

And then to add on to that, I would say Mala after her recent postings and Kenny, are both also townreads for me although I am not confident enough to lock them in. Mala is closer to townlocking than Kenny here in this case.

This leaves us with a trio of BBT/Lowell/Eiralox

No I think Shoshin or MalcomT is not that useful right now and I think they are town

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

What signs do you see me being scum?

And why is Loftwing a good flip? Over Eira even?

Shoshin i will be extremely dissapointed if you help town lose this game because you think your solutions are the only correct ones.

Loftwing i get the vibes thing on Fancy but im pretty sure they are town
I know you're trying your best to help people find you and I'm sorry there are stubborn townies this game being unfair to thay and intentionally ignoring it.

It's hard to vote off Loftwing based on your input because your reasoning for him being Town is meta related, and when I did my dive (admittedly before I knew he was an alt) I didn't find the same.

As for your case on Eira I think I understand your jist but what I don't see is why "Eira is just wrong and bad at cases." is a worse explanation. Additionally it's partially supported by your surety of everyone else's alignment (you could only know Eira is making reads based on knowing everyone's alignment if you ALSO know everyone's alignment, I hope that makes sense).
I understand you could just be that sure of yourself, or at least pretending to be but it's kinda weird and difficult to just sheep.

I'm willing to compromise on Lowell as a "let's avoid loftwing vs eira" thing.

I'm not feeling Loftwing *at all* and I'm seeing their towngame here.

VOTE: Lowell

also BBT's last post being actually towny making me feel better about untownlocking irrelephant in my reads... because now I got a wild potential world of Irrelephant/Eira/Lowell

Let me sell you what I'm seeing in a way that you may see more clearly:

So you said earlier that you feel there's scum pushing Loftwing, no?

Well, if you look back, both Lowell and Eira switched their vote to Loftwing once a wagon on themselves started building.

My conclusion off that was that they were trying to self preserve by voting out Loftwing, rather than being a townie who organically found Loftwing scummy.

Hi , loftwing is obvtown, lets vote out either lowell or eira please

VOTE: eira

VOTE: lowell
Powerlim this

Lowell and Eira are scum together trying not to die d1 desperately

I've not particularly SR'd Fredrick for most of the game (found the slot hard to read initially), but I think BBT is very much town, going to take a proper look at their case on Fredrick and see where I stand.

Lowell's posting hasn't screamed townie at me, but some of their recent responses don't indicate a scum player trying to stay on the good side of town either.

Fredrick is town, probably PR, we are NOT voting there.

he has clearly played in a non agenda way do not fucking counterwagon them last second.,

Nevermind the fact lowell has completely ignored me this whole game while I have pushed them probably the hardest - a fun little tactic.

Lowell/Eira are blatantly paired and Fred is in my townblock. I will vehemently oppose fred unless you have an actual good case there.

Your case implies Irrelephant scum which is why I'm asking because I believe that slot is actually not as town as I first believed.

I admit I'm mostly scumreading Lowell for how they defend Eira in such a subtle yet overt manner.

Fredrick is also here defending Eira without explaination.

TBH

I feel a little less against it purely for the fact Fredrick has gone against my own reads so

fuck it
VOTE: Fredrick

I see it now.

if this flips town pls turbo eira/lowell tho

i think BBT's reasoning on this was town motivated even if it leads to an incorrect conclusion

I'm just gonna sheep Irrel today.

i pray that my read on irrelephant is wrong because if irrelephant is scum i see you being tunneled in on that slot being town and being pocketed to no end.

asking you directly to make sure when you end up in limlo that you actually critically think about *why* you are there and why other people are there.

Kill Fred->Irrelephant->Eira on a loft town flip

1008 is a terrible post

Is Loftwing scum or town

Am i scum or town


What am i if Loftwing flips town?

Kill Fred->Irrelephant->Eira on a loft town flip

irrelephant->eira->lowell on this flipping town

Illl be honest i had lower confidence that loftwing was town after their claim but i was extremely tunneled on eira who was unaligned there

Having a scum flip means i can delete next scum tho

[Eiralox]

dos

Spoiler:

If any more last minute opinions on anything is asked for and I happen to be online, I won't mind giving it, or the information I lack such an opinion.

I think mala and bbt are still town. Kenny actually i think drops to bottom 2 poe off this? I haven't reread game with new info in mind but that's the first thing that comes to mind


Keep in mind i thought i was right and thought id be dead+ its been 5 days since last dayphase.

Also im not answering any PR related probes. Your interest is weird.

Gamma knows how to read me + if i was scum he was dead tonight.
Gamma this is koba btw

On break now. Goal is to create a box of townies spewed rn - that being said just because someone pushed or was pushed by loftwing , it doesnt make them auto town. Remember that if we reach limlo. Lowell is one such slot - but only if mala is town. Context matters heavily. There were multiple dueling wagons and I'm strictly talking about anyone who pushed loft who was a dueling wagon with them. This means lowell+eira are not as cleared as the others - however i am not going to be looking first there. I know people wont like this take but it is a correct one that ensures we dont lose because we only looked at surface level logic of "they pushed scum hard!!"

I had a weird tinfoil based on how fancy was treating me going into this day but i think they were the one who did the meta dive so i think that slot is also pretty locktown.

If i had to locktown people at the moment:

Fancy
Irrelephant
Gamma(shoshin)

Likely town:
bbt(yall will hate me for this one but i sympathize with them. I after all did sheep their case, and that primarily becaue i was working off the false assumption loft was town)
Malcom - i still think the way they approach the game is how they do as town and the identifying factors - the extreme indecisiveness - was proof of that. I am still too wary and have tinfoils that prevent me from locking this in.

I forgot who else was in the game so uh i need to check playerlist before i post more

Funnily enough CW not pushing BBT at all does slightly soften my scumread a bit from very confident to relatively confident - I do feel like that'd be a useful slot for CW to be pushing given they TR'd Loftwing quite strong. Although, of course, there's not necessarily anything ruling out the two of them being scum together, much as I don't see it.

I think its fair to see bbt and I as partnered but from my point of view, and bbts thats obviously... not possible so keep in mind that as town id be seeing things in a different POV adnd have a different view than most, notably being forced to consider slots others think are clear for (what i believe ) are weak distancing reasons.

From where i sit, if the team is lowell loftwing eira - they were in deep shit all day and the fredrick wagon was a godsend.

Like wagons d1 were lowell/loftwing

When lowell was getting wagoned, lowell unexplained jumped on loft. Viable bus, and what i believe was what happened at this point(pending deeper reread, mobile gaming har

Same thing happened with eira

What i need lowell to do is explain their progression and how they reached a vote on loftwing.

Lowell simultaneously pushing me and shoshin when shoshin is extremely unpaired with me is wild

Irrelephant i understand you are trying to see if im.paired with a possible scum kenny but the reason im avoiding that slot is due to history of misreading, not because im scum. I want time to analyze before i commit anywhere. Rushing into another lim after a scum death is how games are lost

My ambivalence and lack of wish to defend kenny is as much pressure to the slot as im willing to give. And i was already clear on wanting to reread most of d1 at least becore i commit

VOTE: kenny

Why did you vote loftwing, eira?

Fwiw im sorting kenny strictly through poe because i have fuck all confidence in reading them.

I feel bad bc i should have been open to the fact i was scumreading playstyle and thats my bad.

I did see the exact post that made me feel.loftwing was town because it looked very thoughtful and complex and reminded me of town Loftwing. Honestly kudos to loft bc it was a really good post to make as scum

Sorry for flooding thread btw just laying out thought process and all

Im like anxiously waiting for people's reaction to my eira 180 bc like i feel like that's momentum shifting and i wanna see it

gamma clearly frozen and crying in scum chat(joke i still townread the slot btw lol)

Why are people voting Lowell? I don't see them being scum here. They haven't left much to be desired.

Why aren't people voting lowell? I see them being scum here. They leave much to be desired.

Why are people voting Lowell? I don't see them being scum here. They haven't left much to be desired.

Why aren't people voting lowell? I see them being scum here. They leave much to be desired.

VOTE: Lowell

Lowell + one of Mala/Kenny is currently where I'm exactly at btw.

Now that's how you analyze spew uwuwu

ok honestly i can't tell which between kenny/mala but like .

lowell

thats 100%

like literally open up loftwing ISO and ctrl-F lowell and u will se

open up CSF iso and see what CSF thought of lowell. she even said lowell/loftwing were paired. thats a pretty damning legacy. she also agreed with my towncore list - which *did* include loftwing at the time i believe *but* she separately said loftwing could be scum with lowell *which* means the rest of it is likely pure.

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

WHAT IN THE BUTT

HOW ON EARTH DO I GET A STRONG TOWN READ

NOPENOPENOPE

this reaction actually lowkey unpaired.

im starting to tunnel a kenny/lowell solve now.

actually i can see lowell/BBT both planning to counterwagon fredrick to save loft.....................

and i fell for it because of my faulty read on eira..


ok the objective order for anyone who actually reread d1 (cough cough) is:

Lowell->Kenny->BBT->Mala(i believe the game ends liklier than not before we reach mala fwiw)

I think I’m just gonna sheep CW until I stop feeling drained for some incomprehensible reason (I actually kinda have a guess why, it’s probably burn-out from schoolwork)

. you're not helping my case on why u are town but also i correctly predicted you would townread me so n i c e

Also I think I'm allowed to bring this up:
The replace shenanigans make this slot more scummy in my opinion, especially since Irrelephant said Shosh likes playing town.

Shosh uh did not have a choice in the matter there.

I'm just like wondering why the fuck the CSF kill makes sense now if we are in a world where Shosh is scum ?

like Lowell came into this day hardpushing gamma ???

is watcher a thing in normals?


actually what if scum have a role watcher ROFL

and lowell was TMIing that gamma slot would be likely dead today because they saw a tracker visited gamma

that'd be wild.

But alas its probably just mala



just .... in the mala/gamma world i have 0 idea why you kill CSF there.

lowell I really await your attempts to pair me with shoshin.
it will be funny because I vow to tunnel your slot until one of us are dead.

good job on the TMI tho.

Here's something fun, I'm here and going to soft an even night or novice investigative right now. I am going to be on you Lowell. You wonder why I talked about investigatives so much this game and was trying to pretend like i was setup speccing which one? Well now you see.

Do what you will with that info. I know you won't kill me regardless because a tracker exists and you dont know their gate and you think you can mislim me.

I play PR as if I'm a VT and need to defend myself on the basis of dayplay. Because it is shitty play to crutch a roleclaim - in all cases. I knew the only way I died was if I ended up exactly correct on the scumteam.

also you probably hammered gamma anyways. its clear you want to just rush the day and kill fancy in safety. you have 0 interest in a conversation that involves critical analysis.

i'm still like not entirely sure shoshin slot was even scum and i wanted gamma to say something and rushing here was really bad :/

oh well at least I am sure there is 1 minimum in shoshin/lowell regardless of what gamma flips

The thing is I believe gamma when they say they simply cannot get on because it is not like them to just not post regardless and it is likely genuine.

We can still plan to eliminate the slot just .. wait?

Last scum is definitely a rolecop and holstered kill to scout

That being said it would be fitting if lowell was town and kenny was scum here just for the sheer fact my name was a prophecy so im rooting for kenny scum but still believe its lowell last based on the TMI reads and scummy positioning hes taken this game. Thats a slot that looks to me to have played in an informed way around whats flipped.

The way scum treated me spews me as a townie. The way shoshin pushed me in particular

Also with the vig, the backup flipped compulsive so it can be infinite shot and compulsive.

Loft and shoshin were scum theatering around the kenny slot. I really think that slot is spewed town that way fwiw.

Did anyone but myself open up any scum isos post flip?

See i would self vote here but i know that no one will listen to me abojt lowell so i want to thunderdome lowell here and now and no one contribute arguments for lowell. Let him make his case. I will SHOW YOU he is scum.

I have no urgency to get lowell now or later as scum
In fact id want it after vig is dead

I thought loftwing had a complex thought process that i associate typically with town.. im actually lowkey impressed at the lines loftwing said in light of a red flip.

Shoshin i believed to be too bold and out of scum meta to be scum. Also the tunnel they had on me felt town motivated.

I would say the most compelling reason lowell being town lies around the vote shifts when loftwing unvoted kenny

when the wagon got hot.

ok mafia is a hard game

i went from

"huh maybe lowell town.. kenny scum?" to "nah kenny def town" to "bbt maybe scum? and then "bbt spewed town af" in the course of less than 2 minutes lmao

people i am confident are spewed town or buried scum in a way that is never scum/scum:

BBT/Myself/Irrelephant/Eiralox/Fancy/Malcom
'
People that are nearly spewed town but i see *things*: Kenny,

remaining: lowell

so you see I keep arriving at the same conclusion regardless of what I do lmao

that is from a blank slate strictly reading loftwing/shoshin purely

if there are any scum in bbt/irrelephant/eira/fancy/malcom, they distanced extremely well and kudos to them.

not anything to say rn.

[Confidently Wrong]

congrats those are posts i made? Lol
If you want me to explain any I'm happy to, just point me to which ones i should explain.

[Confidently Wrong]

If you mean to say i went around shoshin and loftwing thats because i egregiously townread them and played around them being town. Hard to reach the right conclusion when 2/3 of it is already incorrect

[Eiralox]

i have plenty plenty to say :p

I mean i can write paragraphs about above posts lol... but im not gonna, not now at least.

What im gonna do is feel better bout a cw vote over a kenny vote today, esp. with kenny replacement incoming. Kenny just wandered away it seems.

And cw even if u flip town i wont mind that much tbh, rn u feel so scummy 2 me i cant help but thirst for a flip. meh.

[Confidently Wrong]

im actually really towny ur just seeing red