Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure how you managed to twist this into me being old and out of touch, but no the vast majority of players do not do this.

[furtiveglance]

Hello everyone welcome to my quote wall. Make yourselves comfortable

Spoiler: quote

507 is particularly scummy from Furtive.

He states that I have 'declined' to comment on Enchant and CSF wagons. Firstly, I wasn't asked about them at that point so to use the word 'decline' is a misrep. I was simply focused elsewhere at the same and it's that simple.

He also says I haven't commented on the CSF wagon - it had 2 votes when I had caught up? Like, what?

I didn't say that people asked you to comment. I expect people to engage with the leading wagons, that's basic gameplay. CSF had 4 at one point.

Would you expect Enchant to engage with the leading wagons? If you wouldn't that shows people have different playstyles and may not always feel the need to engage with the leading wagons?

Spoiler: quote

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

Maybe not. This is a good vote on Furtive.

I also said this early on in my catch up, so I have clearly disliked Furtive's play from the early game. I only looked into his progression on me as it became more and more obvious that a) a potential BBT wagon was coming and b) Furtive was looking mighty opportunistic.

To call me opportunistic is laughable. What's opportunistic is silently sheeping the conftown on Enchant, which you've still never acknowledged or explained. I've led counter wagons to the confirmed's vote twice, because that's how confident I am in my scumreads. I know how I look if Enchant flips scum, or if you flip town. That's a risk. That's the opposite of opportunistic play.

Leaning into the WIFOM heavily eh?

Spoiler: quote

Cool.

Well, I tell you what. I'm happy to be the elim Today if you're the elim on D2 on my green flip? How about that? Because I can't be assed with the effort of defending myself in yet another fucking game.

For anyone confusing this for towntelling, don't worry.

Town doesn't just shut down and go "I flip town, wanna bet?" when they have no more points to make. "Idc just vote me" is not a towntell. Swearing is not a towntell.

I actually don't find the quoted post from BBT particularly towny. Like, everything else in their interaction is what I found towny. This strikes me as possibly the type of post scum might misjudge as seeming very towny?

Spoiler: quote

I really like CSF's 582.

I looked at Terminator. From what I gathered, Enchant replaced into a hame, and within half an hour hammered a choice in that phase (after voting a different person for seemingly no reason too).

When asked why he hammered, this was his response:

I'd consider enchant.

Enchant, why did you hammer me for leader instead of hectic? We were both at e-1

Idk i saw message "if you heal CSF day will end", i didn't really look votecounts.

Compared to that, this line here:

Need to think before i vote.

feels like a blatant lie.

Yeah, this is quite convincing. My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

Enchant is always hard to read.

Convenient how this read on Ench changed just as:
- The BBT wagon lost a little steam
- More pressure built on furtive
- Enchant has a lot of votes on them and we're at end of day
(Though if furtive is scum it's interesting to consider what alignment Enchant is)

Spoiler: quote

I've basically given my thoughts on this day 1, and have nothing else to say.

This doesn't feel like a towny thing to say. Now, I haven't been the best at following people's read progression and remembering every single post people have made this game, sooo I could be wrong. But as far as I remember, furtive hasn't really substantiated their CSF read much beyond "it's a sus from deep inside me, a caveman sus". I think that town in furtive's position has plenty of things they can still do. furtive's made a lot of statements like "X is sus" but done comparatively little to actually get votes on their scumreads.

Spoiler: quote

Is there something you want to ask me? What input are you missing from me? I've given my thoughts on the gamestate, each individual player, pairings, claiming, strategy.......

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

First post: "I've said everything I could possibly say. What input are you missing?"
Gamma: "You haven't backed up your SR on me"
Second post: "I don't have much evidence but don't believe I need to provide the evidence"
This reads to me like furtive doesn't actually have a consistent internal process

6 points here, I'm not good with strip quoting so a listed response will have to do. I'm going to assume you're town for the purpose of this response.

1) I would expect BBT to engage with the leading wagons.

2) No, not deliberately. I was called opportunistic and I don't think that's fair, I always want to be outspoken.

3) That post did make me question my death tunnel on BBT a bit, and that reply from me was mostly fuelled by emotion rather than logic.

4) Well, Lucian made a good point about Enchant, and I also recall our Chromavalon game in which they were prodded as mafia. So I'm wondering whether I've been on the wrong side of history. Why wouldn't I question my position, when confirmed town and my strong TRs are on Enchant?

5) Maybe this wasn't the best response, but I was more than slightly annoyed that I was asked to 'provide some useful content' or something similar, when I feel like I've given more than the average player this game, and definitely more than the player who made that comment.

6) It's more like:

First post: Is there something more specific you want to know, rather than just accusing me of not contributing?
GE: Your scumread on me was BS, explain it more
Second post:

Explains my read

. I said that I read alignment into difference in reads, and that GE has played a safe game (this was in 635).

[Gamma Emerald]

Here’s the thing: almost no one has matching reads in a game, so does that means everyone has differing alignment? If not, then difference in reads isn’t a good scum tell. I would honestly go so far as to posit an inverse position, that closely matching reads are scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure how you managed to twist this into me being old and out of touch, but no the vast majority of players do not do this.

whatever
What even is the relevance of this? Are you trying to assert Aisa is scum who posted that meme in the scum PT? That’s like the only tangible thought process I can come up with that isn’t you just being nitpicky.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Errr is that first sentence related to the Mala vote?

No

Why Mala over Enchant?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mm not sure about Aisa's furtive scumcase. Not only do I disagree with it, but I feel like it's kind of uncharitable in how she's interpreting some of furtive's posts?

Anyway, let's lim Enchant!

[Dunnstral]

Errr is that first sentence related to the Mala vote?

No

Why Mala over Enchant?

Enchant is always low content so I have them as null. It is my belief that Mala tends to be lower content as mafia, and upon review of their iso their vote on Enchant comes after Enchant votes for them, and I'm not seeing a reason for it, plus the wagon was already going by then. I think Malakittens looks worse. I also think it's possible scum could be hiding behind "let's sheep the ic" to justify their votes today.

Do you have a reason to vote for Enchant over Mala?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant is always low content so I have them as null. It is my belief that Mala tends to be lower content as mafia, and upon review of their iso their vote on Enchant comes after Enchant votes for them, and I'm not seeing a reason for it, plus the wagon was already going by then. I think Malakittens looks worse. I also think it's possible scum could be hiding behind "let's sheep the ic" to justify their votes today.

I don't disagree - that has typically been her meta. But very recently, she's been more inactive lately as town too presumably due to IRL, and I'm struggling to have any read beyond "null" on her this game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you have a reason to vote for Enchant over Mala?

Basically 582 + Enchant doesn't seem to be having that much fun this game

[froggodoggo]

boop

boop

How dare you.

LMAO LETS GO GAMMA

[froggodoggo]

gamma why do you like csf?

furtive feels towny to me tbh. i'm still not sure why he pushes BBT there so hard as scum.

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

interactions around Aisa and also ig Enchant
I feel like she's actually trying to follow up on recent meta to form her reads in this game
ig it could be faked but idk how much effort CSF!scum puts into fake town thought process as scum, I would wager rather little given in Terminator she got yeeted mostly because after getting UTR by bussing Koba, she just kinda sat around while the rest of the group tried to solve the rest of the game

i agree with this post, I don't have a strong read on CSF but their reactions to things is what made me realize they could def be town

[froggodoggo]

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

i don't think having different reads than someone else is a sensible reason to SR someone this early in the game. if you don't like gamma's reasonings, sure, but I don't think that's what you're saying.

[froggodoggo]

I'm not sure how you managed to twist this into me being old and out of touch, but no the vast majority of players do not do this.

whatever
What even is the relevance of this? Are you trying to assert Aisa is scum who posted that meme in the scum PT? That’s like the only tangible thought process I can come up with that isn’t you just being nitpicky.

Is being nitpicky a scumtell?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really, I just dislike it

[Dunnstral]

I'm not trying to assert anything, I'm responding to your questions.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is Aisa claiming that they have a pt where they post reaction images but nobody else is in it?

This was not in response to any question. Why did you post this?

[Alianna]

I want post 666.

[Dunnstral]

You asked me "what even is the relevance of this?"

You are the one who is intent to continue to continue the conversation. The only post I made that wasn't in response to somebody else was 466.

With that in mind, I am the one in position to be asking you what the relevance of this is. 466 is a question/observation, I made that post on my own. Posts 637, 639, 643, 645, 648, 650, 664 are in response to posts other players have made asking me about it.

[Enchant]

Mod punched me and i am ready to fight you all.

Fight me

[froggodoggo]

Alianna u r great

:)

[Klick]

gamma why do you like csf?

furtive feels towny to me tbh. i'm still not sure why he pushes BBT there so hard as scum.

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

interactions around Aisa and also ig Enchant
I feel like she's actually trying to follow up on recent meta to form her reads in this game
ig it could be faked but idk how much effort CSF!scum puts into fake town thought process as scum, I would wager rather little given in Terminator she got yeeted mostly because after getting UTR by bussing Koba, she just kinda sat around while the rest of the group tried to solve the rest of the game

So I've gone back and looked at CSF's ISO in response to this and I think I agree with CSF-town.

[Klick]

hi! I hope you're feeling better!

Unfortunately not but I feel like playing Mafia to get through it right this second

[Klick]

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

With this list, the phrase 'have done enough for a temporary townpass' was only really about Infinity and Klick. The other three I'd say haven't done enough to be town, but also haven't stood out to me as scummy in the same way that my bottom three have.

See the thing is, I don't really think furtive is thinking that hard about doing things that won't get him scumread.

[froggodoggo]

Klick u r currently voting the innocent child

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mod punched me and i am ready to fight you all.

Fight me

*pokes*