Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[Infinity 324]

it's probably not a great idea to try to analyze why scum voted one townie instead of another

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, who's scum Infinity?

[Aisa]

That is a fair enough point. I will give you that Dunn's push on froggo doesn't really make Infinity look better.
Also, if you are scum I really like how Dunn handled his interactions with you!

I feel like you haven't really addressed my questions, BBT. Maybe you have a valid reason for not doing so. If so, fair enough. Fmpov, though, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and you're not giving me much - in terms of addressing my actual questions.

I asked if you thought there was anything in Dunn-froggo-infinity interactions that 1. you thought was notable, 2. you haven't pointed out yet. I asked this specifically because I wanted to understand what the purpose of this specific question you asked Klick was:

Have you checked the interaction between Dunn/Frog and Dunn/Infinity to see if what you're saying is actually true?

Instead, I feel a little like you keep reiterating the point you made back here:

ISO Dunn and look at his interactions around Infinity.

Specifically D2 when I am speaking to him about whether Froggo/Infinity can be scum together.

Notice how he agrees with my push on Infinity, thinks Infinity could be scum, but ends up voting Froggo.

Then notice that Dunn barely interacts with Infinity throughout the entire game.

It's Infinity.

...And in the time it took me to write this post you've gone through a whole character development arc so I have to consider that now <3

[Infinity 324]

So, who's scum Infinity?

i'm lazy and feel like we can just win if we don't elim gamma, hiraki, or lucian

we also get a conftown from the last claim

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Convenient.

[Aisa]

Ooh, the character development was not permanent. Exciting.
(I still like you even though I'm scumreading you!)

But Infinity sounds sooo town
My tone reads are famously reliable

Why does Infinity sound town?

Hmm, upon consideration I will take that back. Let's call it a slight townlean as I don't have enough evidence for a full townread.

Here are a couple posts I picked from their ISO that sounded kinda towny to me:

Spoiler:

it's doesn't make sense from either Town or scum

i feel like it actually does make sense from scum? like either as a cheeky joke thing or as an actual ill-conceived sk crumb. idk I've seen traitor claim traitor to people as a "reaction test". maybe i'm silly for seeing that kind of thing here but it raises alarm bells.

The traitor claim thing sounds like something a townie would come up with more easily.

I'm not finding Infinity's recent posting towny either. Scumreading furtive's SK claim seems a bit surface level?

it's also like, town has to recognize how much confusion/wine that is gonna cause

also yeah i felt like furtive is >rand an enchant partner (and i'm not sure why y'all think i was setting it up as opposed to, just thinking about what my reads would look like on a red flip? it's clear that's what we were expecting anyway)

and our poe is starting to get thin

Point about wine -> I like
furtive is >rand an Enchant partner -> true
Not setting furtive up -> yeah idk this makes sense as a comment to me
poe starting to get thin -> yes

If Infinity is scum, their fake townspew in this post is flawless

[Aisa]

Have you decided if you're pro-massclaim, Infinity?

[Infinity 324]

no but my thoughts as of right now and whoever's fronting is that masons should claim if they exist and otherwise the PR only needs to claim if they get run up

if there's 4 docs or something we'll probably be able to figure it out

[Hiraki]

Aisa
Gamma
Infinity
CatScratchFever
BBT

lmk if i forgot someone

[Aisa]

You forgot Lucian.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i feel like it actually does make sense from scum? like either as a cheeky joke thing or as an actual ill-conceived sk crumb. idk I've seen traitor claim traitor to people as a "reaction test". maybe i'm silly for seeing that kind of thing here but it raises alarm bells.

The traitor claim thing sounds like something a townie would come up with more easily.

What makes you think this is more likely to come from town? They wanted suspicion to stay on Furtive and this line of thinking allows them to keep pushing it, no?

it's also like, town has to recognize how much confusion/wine that is gonna cause

also yeah i felt like furtive is >rand an enchant partner (and i'm not sure why y'all think i was setting it up as opposed to, just thinking about what my reads would look like on a red flip? it's clear that's what we were expecting anyway)

and our poe is starting to get thin

Point about wine -> I like
furtive is >rand an Enchant partner -> true
Not setting furtive up -> yeah idk this makes sense as a comment to me
poe starting to get thin -> yes

If Infinity is scum, their fake townspew in this post is flawless

Point about wine, again, just reinforces that they want Furtive to be elimmed. If they genuinely thought that Furtive had a chance of being SK (and maybe this is why he was killed?) then scum definitely want to get rid of him, no?

The push on Furtive was bad, I understand how he could be scum because of associations with Enchant but his overall play indicated very likely town.

It wasn't just stating reads upon a red flip. The whole progression of the Furtive read just doesn't make sense as in the post before where they state Furtive looks bad on a red Enchant flip, they say Furtive seems towny (they actually say it again in the post talking about reevaluating the read as well). All of the towny stuff literally gets disregarded immediately upon a red Enchant flip that they know is coming.

Outside of this, Infinity's votes this game have been;

39 Frog
90 Klick
285 CSF
462 BBT
1116 Furtive

Given Klick is very likely town, and I know I am town (I understand this is dubious for other people) then Infinity's voting history this game is absolutely awful. Their move from CSF to me was bad (explanation didn't add up to much either) and their interactions with Dunn (or lack there of) points to them being informed with each other and reciprocating a complete lack of interest in each other as well.

Add into this Dunn's 'low read' on both Infinity and Frog and the fact Dunn was trapped into an Infinity vote if he moved off Frog, then that explains his immediate doubt and push on Frog based on his claim (however good the posting may have been). Ultimately, it just showed a lack of awareness about the set-up from Frog. Dunn couldn't afford to move off Frog because he would have had to push Infinity, which he clearly avoided doing.

[Alianna]

Cat Scratch Fever and Lucian are being prodded.

[Hiraki]

Lucian last.

[Aisa]

I can't say I understand why you've chosen that order, but sure.
I claim

Vanilla Townie

.

Get to you later, BBT.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sorry been a wild few days

I still think infinity is scummy. I was suspicious of BBT yesterday, but I like how he is talking about his reads and pushing a scumread. whereas i didn't really like 1403 - townreading a few people isn't very difficult for scum to fake

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I guess I'm not 100% sure infinity does that furtive kill last night, but I'm also not sure it was a Mafia kill

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think furtive is probably town
Talk about everything else later

What was this Aisa?

[Aisa]

i feel like it actually does make sense from scum? like either as a cheeky joke thing or as an actual ill-conceived sk crumb. idk I've seen traitor claim traitor to people as a "reaction test". maybe i'm silly for seeing that kind of thing here but it raises alarm bells.

The traitor claim thing sounds like something a townie would come up with more easily.

What makes you think this is more likely to come from town? They wanted suspicion to stay on Furtive and this line of thinking allows them to keep pushing it, no?
[...]

I agree that Infinity could be pushing furtive here. My point was about the specific justification they used. I think this:
town infinity sees SK claim -> "I wonder if this would make sense from scum?" -> "I don't see why not, maybe it's like traitor claiming traitor"

is more likely that this:
scum infinity sees SK claim -> "this is something I can push" -> "let's also fake the fact I think this is scummy because it reminds me of traitors" -> "let's sprinkle in a few words that make it sound like I'm doubting myself to tie it all up"

It just seems like a weirdly specific line of thought to insist on as scum.

Don't get me wrong, somebody who knew these are things I look for when I scumhunt could definitely exploit me here, but I don't think this is what Infinity is trying to do.

[Aisa]

I think furtive is probably town
Talk about everything else later

What was this Aisa?

It was a follow-up to this post I made towards the end of day 1:

But CSF complained about my furtive scumcase, so I was going to reconsider that.

You don’t have to agree with me!

Also, Aisa, I responded to that post. What did you think?

(furtive's response for context.)

I've read it carefully now. I kinda liked it. CSF's response did make me want to reconsider and I do think that maybe last night I tunneled slightly. Or was wearing my scum-tinted glasses. Or whatever we want to call it.

I'm oscillating between "ooh furtive tone town" and "ooh furtive scum trying out a new posting style". Right now I'm in more of a town!furtive mood, but given I'm oscillating so much I think I'll let my thoughts on you simmer during this night phase. We can pick this discussion up again on day 2 if you'd like. Happy to commit to posting some thoughts on you as soon as I can at the start of day 2, so you don't have to worry I'm just scum being noncommittal/waiting to see what everyone else thinks.

[Aisa]

I'll give you Infinity's voting history doesn't look super reassuring.

This said, right now I feel like you're hyperfocused on pushing that Infinity is scum. I feel like no matter what I say your response keeps boiling down to "yes but this is consistent with Infinity being scum". I don't disagree with you, but I don't feel like there is any evidence of you actually trying to evaluate whether all the things you're scumreading could come from town!Infinity. (...Oh no, I'm getting flashbacks to scumreading froggo for a similar reason .-.).

You keep insisting on the fact Dunn immediately doubted frog as if he couldn't just have seen an opportunity to push through a miselimination.

[Aisa]

Meh. I'll give you that Infinity warrants further consideration.

I'll stop pushing you at least until this massclaim is over. No promises about what happens afterwards, but it will give me time to reevaluate. I feel a little too zoomed in, don't trust myself to be evaluating your slot objectively right now, and don't want to end up monopolising the conversation.

[Gamma Emerald]

Aisa
Gamma
Infinity
CatScratchFever
BBT

lmk if i forgot someone

Looks like I’m next
Vanilla Townie

[Aisa]

How I envision BBT's reaction to my previous post:

Spoiler: gif

[Infinity 324]

VT

[Lucian]

I'm alive! For the most part.

Until the massclaim is over, I'm gonna see if I'll have an original thought, or if I'll just carry on with pushing Infinity. Standby.