Newbie 2099 | GTA San Andreas | Endgame

[Spartan117]

My Sus-ometer is going off I think I've found one of them VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon Rad do you want to join me?

[Spartan117]

Votes votes votes votes, everybody's sharing their votes.

Mmuuuussttt k kk keeee eeppp vv v vott iiinnngg

VOTE: FancyPants

E-1 he he votes

[Spartan117]

Hi Elmk! I think that would have put him at E-3 because me and spartan weren't on him anymore. Double E-1 page 1 would have been fun though

So close but so far.

@Rad wanna join me on fancy pants or should we go back to Goldfish?

[Spartan117]

How about this guy who's voting himself.

VOTE: AlwaysNever

The wind blows this way the wind blows that way.

Let's do it.

VOTE: AlwaysNever

[Spartan117]

I am not getting town vibes from anyone but I lowkey like Rad so far
Spartan not so much

Whooooosssshhhhh

(Appeasement followed by a statement without any actual reasoning)

Zzoooooommm

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Spartan117]

Why juice is dishonest:

Also did Bulbasaur OMGUS Rad.

I'd push for either Bulba or Elmk today really.

I ask (note the bolded part):

Why do you like Bulba and Elmk to "push" today

.

You say (bolded):

Also did Bulbasaur OMGUS Rad.

I'd push for either Bulba or Elmk today really.

If Bulba OMGUS'ed Rad what does that mean to you?


Why do you like Bulba and Elmk to "push" today.

there really isn't much else to go with - without a flip. and those are the only two im sus about - but there is nothing concrete at the moment

You very cleary brought up Bulba and Elmk as suspects but when pressured you backed away and offered no justifiation - that's what makes me think you're being dishonest.

I would see this more as illusive rather than dishonest, Its NAI to keep your cards close to your chest especially early on imo, I think it does look sus to appear to be on a Elmk or Bulba train without actually being on one, its like having recognition for sussing them without actually doing the work to gain that credit, either way it's still early on and we are all still feeling each other out, like the pressure from you even if I don't agree with it all, I dont need to, the effort is good.

[Spartan117]

Why juice is dishonest:

Also did Bulbasaur OMGUS Rad.

I'd push for either Bulba or Elmk today really.

I ask (note the bolded part):

Why do you like Bulba and Elmk to "push" today

.

You say (bolded):

Also did Bulbasaur OMGUS Rad.

I'd push for either Bulba or Elmk today really.

If Bulba OMGUS'ed Rad what does that mean to you?


Why do you like Bulba and Elmk to "push" today.

there really isn't much else to go with - without a flip. and those are the only two im sus about - but there is nothing concrete at the moment

You very cleary brought up Bulba and Elmk as suspects but when pressured you backed away and offered no justifiation - that's what makes me think you're being dishonest.

I would see this more as illusive rather than dishonest, Its NAI to keep your cards close to your chest especially early on imo, I think it does look sus to appear to be on a Elmk or Bulba train without actually being on one, its like having recognition for sussing them without actually doing the work to gain that credit, either way it's still early on and we are all still feeling each other out, like the pressure from you even if I don't agree with it all, I dont need to, the effort is good.

[Spartan117]

People I don't have at least a slight town vibe from:
Elemk
Cat.Jpeg
GoldfishFromTheMoon
Juice
AlwaysNever
Spartan117 (SE)
FancyPants (SE)

Did you just name everyone but Rad and yourself? Lol

[Spartan117]

And, out of the whole list that I put which is everyone except me and Rad, I am suspicious of spartan the most.

That's cool, I mean I've produced min content, chaotic at best but thats what I'm going for this time, just for the record, I'm still sticking to the plan tho dw I'll have my scum team for you guys before the days out (in game day ofc aha)

Also side note it feels to me bulba that you are too scared to comit to any reads, like as if you say someone's scum that you can't change your mind with more information or even with further reflection and a good old re-read. I get very static vibes from you as far as reads go, when as town we should be more fluid with our reads they should evolve, now that doesn't mean they have to change ofc but that's all part of the process.

[Spartan117]

Appreciate the answer with that said, now that we have developments, whom among all of the players right now do you think are paired in some ways? Or at least trying to not look like they're paired the most?

Why are you pushing for pairs on page 6? Wait for a flip or if YOU see something suspicious that you want to point out, fine do it. Like pushing this sort of thing this early is just going to make town hesitant to interact and give opinions when we should be pushing for open communication, not trying to find connections based on nothing.

Could also be scum here hunting for masons.

The more I think about this the less and less I like it.

Agreed.

[Spartan117]

What felt toothless about my post. If anything I was being a bit passive aggressive

Wait, that post had teeth? You were being passive aggressive? I read that as pure wink wink nudge nudge rvs.

Hmm

Well I did want to pressure you and at the same time I was annoyed that I was being voted as

I tend to have knee jerk reactions any time I am voted.

This feels like an excuse for any reaction that may come from being voted in the future, could be the first scum slip of the game? Hmm

[Spartan117]

I have not had the time to read through everyone's posts, rather that just throwing something together I'd like to be able to give some proper game content, I need to go to bed soon for work, I am going to sit down when I get in tomorrow and go through everything properly.

Also just to clarify but will expand on tomorrow, the plan I referenced before is based on mine and Rads last game where I called out the mafia day 1, and even though I was getting scum read d1 I was the night kill, and because I was town I helped I fluency Rad to get the job done in remarkable fashion I must say.
So acording to the plan it was all a joke about scraping me from the day 1 vote because I will be the night kill the first night, which I had intended to play more into in a chaotic fun way but unfortunately havnt had the time im sorry, I do still intend to try and nail down the scum team before day 1 ends and we can see post game how that compares if I can get a 2 in 2.

[Spartan117]

I am just re-reading through the thread and commenting on any posts that ping me in particular. If anyone has anything specific they would like me to answer or respond to what either I missed or hasn't been asked yet please let me know.

I am not getting town vibes from anyone but I lowkey like Rad so far
Spartan not so much

Interesting that Bulba didnt like my content at this point especially in comparison to Rad when we were both having some RVS shenanigans, I don't see a whole lot different to mine and Rads posts at this point on page 3 to make this distinction. Although I do like Rads play so agree with this town read.

I do think the person who instantly unvoted a L1 - wanted to be seen as town by their action even if it was during a random voting sequence.

Agreed I did think this was very weird from Elemk.

Fancy is very assertive and pushy with his posts which I think is good and tonally feels like coming from hyper investigative town although I have seen this behaviour played by scum. In fact in my last game with Rad, who will remember well how similarly BBT played in his assertiveness, questioning and challenging everyone and was one of the main scum I called out day 1. Now I am not saying this is the same thing as BBT was much more wagon happy and was very eager to jump on/start wagons and eliminate people with little cause, which I think most saw as him trying to get reactions and push people which is the townie method I think he was emulating. I just don't see hyper activity pushing everyone as getting instant townie points from me.

I have been called out myself for LAMIST behaviour in previous games as town because of playing very active and questioning everyone on things, it is ideal for scum to try to emulate this behaviour because if they are questioning everyone its very hard for town to pair them with anyone and of course makes them look very town.

And also, we have 8 days. Do you think I would really not scumhunt for those eight days?

Just a headsup that we don't necessarily get 8 days if someone is voted off before then, I fully get your sentiment on us taking our time, I personally like to feel a game out and not rush things too much but if things get too stale and drawn out you get too many people lurking and avoiding questions.

It is more that spartan accused me of appeasement when I would be providing reads soon anyway.

Why does it matter that I shared my opinion on how I saw your post, when I make a post I cant take your future posts into account can I?

I actually think you're probably town. Voting 5 times and expressing a "I don't give a F#%& attitude." strikes me as tonally town but I wanted to interact with you to try and sort you correctly.

@FP tell me, why does this behaviour give you a town read on Rad but not me? interesting how both you and bulba came to this same conclusion

I am seeing how FancyPants can be town. He helped us move out of the RVS stage pretty much.

Taking the game out of RVS doesnt make that person town especially when they are dictating the conversation, scum win games based off dictating the conversation alone.

As for my reads none are set in stone - as you said it's early - but I'm willing to defend and discuss any read you'd like to talk about.

Very townie mindset to have, although not impossible to emulate.

If I have to put money into someone being town, my gut would say Rad or Juice.

Agreed on Rad, still unsure about Juice.

@spartan: How would I have had any reads to commit to when a lot of the people had only posted an RVS vote and some is getting prodded? And, like I said to Fancy, you assume my reads are static? It is day 3. We have seven days left. I feel like it is better to say someone isn't committing to anything when it is closer to the deadline.

At the point of this post it is page 6, by that point there is more than enough posts to be able to form reads. I never said you had to have a read on everyone. I was referring to your overall play of making reads that I read as being static such that you was too scared to commit as your wouldn't be able to change the read. We don't have to wait to nearer the deadline to call someone out if we feel they aren't committing to anything, town should want there to be time for them to respond as they don't know they are scum, where as scum it would be ideal to call someone out nearer the deadline and apply pressure so they have less time to respond and can be pushed for elimination.

Looking for pairs is unhelpful but a town tell IMO.

Why is looking for pairs so early on useful for town to do in your opinion? would it not look more like asking questions that are in no way able to be effectively answered to seem active and driving content?

I'm pretty confident about my town game though, haven't lost a town game in a while.

What's your effectiveness as scum?

I'm of the opinion that looking for pairs before we have actually seen any alignments is largely pointless

If you think its pointless why does it give you a town tell when AN asked about it?

I like ANs breakdown of their reads in their #168 good detail feel very genuine.

It basically seems to boil down to 'no real content' which is somewhat true but the same can be said of almost everyone in this game. At least he's given his thoughts, made a decent point about Spartan and actually placed a vote.

How can it be said that there is no real content from almost everyone in the game, Rad, Juice, AlwaysNever and Bulba have all produced lots of content by this point to put Elemk in the same bracket as them is just lazy.

You state he has made a decent point about me, please elaborate on that what part of the following is an actual point on me?

128 is interesting to me. I like his previous post 126 because I agree with the logic he expresses. I don't like 128 because he alludes to some sort of "master plan" without actually expressing anything, the exact thing he then accuses bulba of doing? He states he is being "chaotic", which I see in his earlier posts, but they are RVS posts and isnt't that the whole point of the RVS stage? However, I again like the logic of the last sentence. Slight scum lean for me

He states he likes my post 126, and agrees with my logic, it seems the whole basis of his scum read on me is based on a joke I made relating to my previous game with Rad that had not been fully explained, which is nothing to do with what I was talking to Bulba about so his point is factually incorrect. he then ends his point saying

slight scum lean for me

and this was his whole basis for his vote in a following post with no further analysis or reasoning and you support it FP, it feels to me like you never bothered to review what his read was based on before you supported it.

FP I am not sure if you are supporting Elemk because he is agreeing with you or you are scum and want to encourage him to stay on your side? Surely it would be too obvious for you two to be the scum team right?

Spartan you promised to name the scum team here:

By the end of in game Day 1, we still have time,

I think this is a very big reach. So town can never be pissed at being voted incorrectly?

Of course they can be pissed at being voted but it is more common for scum to be frustrated when they are voted as they are trying to look town and if they are being sussed it feels more frustrating as they are putting more effort in to look town than town should be. It also felt very much like an excuse to get out of any reaction to any future pressure which as town you shouldn't be afraid of. Also you didnt say once or twice having a reaction, you specified yourself on having a knee jerk reaction

any time

you are voted.


I would have placed my vote on Elemk but since he is being replaced I will hold my vote until I have investigated further.
For now.
UNVOTE:


Overall reads/leans at this point in time
Rad - Town read
Juice/AlwaysNever - Town read
Bulba - town lean
FancyPants - there is a lot to evaluate here feels townie through general inquisitiveness but could be strong scum, hmm
Elemk - Scum read

I have not seen enough from Cat and Goldfish to get a read on them. Will read their ISOs tomorrow and whatever else happens until then.

[Spartan117]

Wouldn't you outing your proposed team produce new points of discussion?

Agreed, very good point, i just dont want to rush and comit to it until I'm sure, I dont plan on doing it right at the end of the day, I just havnt spent enough time analysing interactions between players yet, for example if everyone thinks Elemk is scum it would make me think maybe he's not because I would think that ScumElemks partner would be trying to change the conversation or deflecting even if only done subtly (which funnily enough we have actually seen from FancyPants) now I'm not saying they are my proposed scum team I need more time to read through before I comit.

Additionally for reference the whole plan thing that i referenced was about me doing it nearer the deadline to mirror last game where I was heavily sussed, someone else got eliminated and then I was the night 1 night kill, which I was playing into with that whole thing of that.

Also my point about not necessarily having 8 days left to post as if someone's elimed the days over was more game mechanics rather than anything else, just to make sure you was aware.

[Spartan117]

guess you are correct about this, but the main reason for my town read on them is the lengths they went to verify the meta goldfish commented on. I don't think that would really come from scum. If goldfish is scum especially.

I dont really know what to say about goldfish and cat at the moment, both havnt produced much in the way of reads and actual content, which doesn't make them necessarily scum because I mysekf hadn't produced a whole lot previously and I know I'm town, and they seem to be sussing each other two so I don't see that they would be a scum team I could defo see it being one of goldfish, cat or Ekemk and someone else. That's where I'm kinda at atm

[Spartan117]

Ordered towniest to scumiest:

FancyPants
Spartan
Bulba
Juice
Cat
Alwaysnever
Goldfish
Elemk

I'm willing to jump to elemk here if we decide but also wouldn't mind giving a replacement a chance to play

Fancypants is closest to lock town for me though I do see Spartan's point about this style being doable by scum. It feels distinctly different from bbt in that bbt is aggro in both alignments and though fancy is also aggro at times, I've never seen anyone as openly solvey while being scum. Fancy's claim that his scum play differs greatly sounds sincere, follows with his open solvey approach, and I can empathize with it.

Alwaysnever is bordering on scum for similar reasons as fancy gave for goldfish. But he's one of the Ted talkers which is just difficult as scum so I'd avoid voting him today over goldfish and elemk.

I agree with this, only thing I would ask is why do you have Cat above AlwaysNever, or vice versa?

[Spartan117]

I only think that Bulba or FP will flip mafia - if Elmk is Mafia.

Cat is my biggest town read - but when they mirrored me - I felt unsure.

I feel I should be worried about Spartan

I'm assuming your vote/unvote on goldfish is a vote which makes what FP said in #330 make sense.

With Cat being your biggest town read, which is think is a bit odd given the contrast in the amount of content given compared to others, who would you think would be Goldfish's scum partner if they get eliminated and flip scum?

[Spartan117]

That's L-1 for Goldfish BTW,

I'm OK with her being lynched, but she should have a chance to claim.

I like this a lot from FP, you didn't have to do that, easy town cred if scum but I think scum would more likely just not say anything on the chance of a mis-elim.

[Spartan117]

Although no intent has been declared yet.

I have no issue giving intent if the general consensus is happy they are scum, from reading through their ISO it is pretty lackluster, lots of lurking and lack of real townie desire to solve the puzzle seems very relaxed.

My main concern with everyone seeming happy to jump on their wagon, is who their scum partner is? Maybe they have just given up with them at this point and jumped on the wagon to get town cred I'm not sure. Either way it does make me hesitant, but in order to move this game on I feel like we need to see a flip soon.

So consider this intent to hammer (provided Juices vote is legit) although I do wish to respond back to Rad first before hand. (hopefully that gets things moving again, que escalator music)

[Spartan117]

I agree with this, only thing I would ask is why do you have Cat above AlwaysNever, or vice versa?

Cat's analysis of goldfish sounds sincere without shading goldfish as much as a scum!cat vs town!goldfish could get away with here. And cat vs goldfish probably isn't a SvS imo. Openness to not list any scum reads with a "take it or leave it, I don't care" mentality comes across townie.

Alwaysnever has the potential mason hunting + pairing style of day 1 reading, which was questionable and feels like appeasement when openly stating that they're switching to "individual-based reads". Lists me as null-town but sure does like to shade me on my issues with pairing, going as far as saying I could be scum simply because I'm considering the setup. Feels like manufactured shade.

If you think Cat is Town or at the very least are leaning that way, who do you think is Goldfish's scum partner?

I also didnt like the pair matching so early on, although I don't think that alone would make him scum, I got general townish vibes when i saw his posts, I will need to go and give his ISO a proper read and pick out what I think is specifically townie or if anything pings me as scummy.

[Spartan117]

Anyway important question for @Spartan and @Alwaysnever:

Let's say hypothetically you are a one shot town-aligned vigilante today, who can't choose to not-kill, who would you kill and why?

Very good question, scum must hate how effective you seem to be, not just in this game but in your other games too when you've rolled town. Just curious did you find yourself becoming a policy elimination night one in other games where you are town because of how well you play?

To answer your question that's a difficult one and I would need to re-read some ISOs before making my decision, my main driving force would be finding a flip that would give us the most amount of information, I would say it would probably be somewhere in the pool of Cat, Elemk or AlwaysNever (who I've yet to re-read so this is on the assumption that I find from that what is giving Rad the read they are). Although I would want to keep in mind the chance of it being a stronger player who has the ability to fall under the radar rather that the 3 most inactive players, I could see maybe a bulba option but I felt convinced by their tone so would need to see from a re-read. But yeah good question very thought provoking.

[Spartan117]

I see you don't mention Goldfish in people you'd consider vigging, why are you willing to hammer her then?

My comments were on the assumption she was the day 1 elim in order to get to the first night

[Spartan117]

Eish the bolded part is a bit red flaggy. How do you know I've been effective, I could have been barking up the wrong trees this entire game? You only have my word that I'm a good townie at all. Show some healthy paranoia will you. Not sure what to make of this.

Take credit where credit is due, ive flagged previously my thoughts on where you might be a strong scum player being hyper dominant but I think you have far surpassed the effort of scum trying to look like they are trying to solve the game. I know you've been effective as far as asking that question because I feel it's a very good question to ask at this point in the game as well, you are setting up data for day 2 obviously depending on who the night 1 kill is. I don't believe you are in anyone's scum pool at this point, I dont just have your word youre townie I have the thoughts of every other player here who are also majority town.
Maybe it's just how the game kinda dropped off but it just feels like the scum are in the depleted inactive pool and have given up.

[Spartan117]

Nobody is hammering Goldfish before they get a chance to come in thread and respond. Least of all Spartan!

Goldfish has had plenty of chance to respond its been days without anything. And why would I not be able to hammer? You've subbed into the game giving orders, are we just getting a repeat of last game...

[Spartan117]

Anyone wanna take odds on BBT overtaking FP on post count before the end of day 1?

[Spartan117]

You're not hammering because I don't like your play so far this game. In fact, someone should probably unvote to give the slot time and ensure no hammer.

I feel like you're just trying to antagonise me into being rash. Yukky

[Spartan117]

By asking people to unvote?

That's quite the jump you've made!

No by telling me I can't hammer, it's very obnoxious behaviour.

[Spartan117]

Dunno, in your case maybe, I just dont enjoy your 'style of play' if you can call it that, didn't like it last game don't like it this game.

[Spartan117]

I dont really care if you eliminate me with votes or during the night, I'd honestly rather sub out but I don't see what help.thwt does the others having a 3rd slot sub out for them to re-sort.

[Spartan117]

I have already claimed intent to hammer a while ago, they are not coming back anytime soon, let's just see this flip and go from there.

I believe they will flip red it feels like scum who has given up and has no more fight to give. In the event of what I think will happen and BBT night kills me again, I think it is the Elemk/BBT slot that was sussed by others before the switch and is and im sure will be sussed after.

Other than that AlwaysNever dropped off too which I felt could have been from feeling flat and deflated that their scum partner was cornered and not being sure how to assist them.

All the best Rad, I hope you can win this for the town.


VOTE: Goldfish

[Spartan117]

Scummy? It would have been anti town to prevent the lynch everyone else wanted. People need to know the difference between obstructive and scummy

I don't think we were ever in danger of no-lynching there.

But for me the main thing that was scummy was when you said - "Goldfish will flip town." I don't know how a townie could possibly know that... and now I'm talking myself into your wagon.

We had several really slow days followed by Elemk subbing out and was about to have Goldfish sub out which would have led to someone else filling their slot, which would have left a new player to sort. At the time I hammered there was around 2 days left and with the inactivity previous lack of any other real pushes I think it certainly would have been close.

Personally I read Juices comments about goldfish's alignment as their opinion, on how they felt they were town and I believe they had mentioned how their original vote was one of pressure to try and gain content rather than out of an actual scum read (correct me if im wrong) I still find Juices content tonally and methodically town and stay with Rad and FancyPants as my top 3 town reads.

[Spartan117]

I know you are town though - because you being scum makes no sense

Who do you think is scum atm Juice?

What do you think of it being Bulba and 1 of Cat, AlwaysNever, or BBT.

I feel like the 2 scum are in that pool of 4.

[Spartan117]

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

[Spartan117]

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

@bulba why didn't you answer my question? Hmm

[Spartan117]

BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot.

Has he? In what way?

What suspicion did you have on him before that you don't now?

[Spartan117]

I want to know what Spartan and FP think about Cat and if they would vote them - I wasn't obstructive before. But I won't join any wagon with Cat on the line,

I'm unsure about Cat, it doesn't look like Cat and BBT are a pair, unless that was some recent scum theatrics. I don't like how 3 people have jumped on their wagon with the general premise relating to their activity which is what happened with Goldfish, I feel like it is way more than likely that 1 scum is on their wagon.

With 3 votes on them currently and 5 to eliminate I do not intend to put my vote on Cat currently, this game has been painfully slow with large periods of inactivity, I dont think its as simple as the scum are just being inactive.

Always never being missing doesn't help to sort their slot, and I don't like that Bulba ignored my question, I feel like they are just trying to get through the day, slot onto the wagon that others are pushing and get to the night phase where they can try again. So for that reason my vote today resides here.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Spartan117]

I want to know what Spartan and FP think about Cat and if they would vote them - I wasn't obstructive before. But I won't join any wagon with Cat on the line,

I'm unsure about Cat, it doesn't look like Cat and BBT are a pair, unless that was some recent scum theatrics. I don't like how 3 people have jumped on their wagon with the general premise relating to their activity which is what happened with Goldfish, I feel like it is way more than likely that 1 scum is on their wagon.

With 3 votes on them currently and 5 to eliminate I do not intend to put my vote on Cat currently, this game has been painfully slow with large periods of inactivity, I dont think its as simple as the scum are just being inactive.

Always never being missing doesn't help to sort their slot, and I don't like that Bulba ignored my question, I feel like they are just trying to get through the day, slot onto the wagon that others are pushing and get to the night phase where they can try again. So for that reason my vote today resides here.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

I like your reasoning but I don't like this pick. Let's go BBT?

VOTE: BBT

As much as I would love to join you, Bulbas slot has just been active and posted again and still ignored me, if I could vote for them again I would, can you join me on Bulba? They aren't even trying to provide any towie content just trying to deflect of themselves. I think this is one of the scum.

[Spartan117]

by process of elimination - after BBT, I do think Bulba would be the next person i'd seriously consider. And if I am wrong about Elemk/BBT - and its not Bulba either. Then town are in serious trouble

Hey Juice would you like to join me on Bulba? We can try on BBT tomorrow depending on the flip.

[Spartan117]

All of this based on a question I did in fact answer. How hilarious

A question you did in fact answer? hmm lets investigate shall we?

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

Here was my original question directed to you, on its own not hidden in a big chunk of text or anything.

I still think FP and Juice are town af. I am very stubborn in my reads so it will be hard to change them

Your first post after my question, clearly not an answer to me about BBT, just you stating your town reads of FP and Juice and how you are not willing to change that.. ok

VOTE: alwaysnever

Your second post is a vote on AlwaysNever, no context, no comments in this post to go along just you voting the most innactive player who hasnt posted in 7/8 days, was you expecting him to return based on the pressure you appled in this impactful post?

I would also be down to vote cat

Your third post is you letting everyone know that you would be open to voting cat the second most innactive player, and just that no reasoning in this post as to why just that the offers there if anyone wants it... ok

I really hope there is a scum in those two. I am not letting spartan off the hook. My pool of players I will be looking into today are:

Spartan
Cat
AlwaysNever
BBT but I am less sure on this one.

Your fourth post after my question and here we see a few more words this time. Yet they are just you expressing your hope that the two people (most inactive) have hopefully 1 scum amongst them 2 (still not answering my question).
You say youre not letting me off the hook, (shock, for what? its not clear)
You then list the players you will be looking into today (I hope you are looking at me while I'm showing my good side) consisting of Myself, Cat, AN and BBT but you feel the need to express you are less sure of the need to look into him today (I wonder why? Hmm)

and just checking yep that doesnt tell me what you think of BBT or if you would be happy with a BBT elim today, nope.

VOTE: cat

My reads boil down to strong trs on Juice and Fancy. I don't see myself ever fosing Juice tbh. And then that leaves you, Rad, who I have a weaker tr on. Then, BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot. That leaves Cat, AlwaysNever, and Spartan.

Now here is your fifth post since my question and this one is much meatier, you have now switched your vote from AN to Cat with only 3 posts inbetween this and your last vote, 2 of them being yours. You seem to change your vote based on 1 post from Rad asking why you didnt just vote Cat, so you do very sheepy just following everyone else, you dont vote them because you have a scum read on them, you explain that you town read FP Juice and have a weak town read on Rad, so I guess that just leaves everyone else for you to scum read? your scum reads are based just on whos left, there doesnt seem to be any actual scum reading proper thought provoking questions involved.

You state BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions you had on him. now this ties into one of my posts right after your 5th post questioning this because you just made a simple easy statement with no actual backup, anyone can say what you did, it doesnt mean anything, we need to know in what way this was done, I feel like you don't explain yourself because you cant't. It is very hard to have suspicion and change suspicion when you already know whos town and whos scum.

Again just to remind this still does not answer my question of what your actual thoughts are on BBT and what you would think if they was eliminated today. Looks like youre just avoiding answering the question.

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

@bulba why didn't you answer my question? Hmm

Following your 5th post I challenged you asking why you didnt answer my question.

BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot.

Has he? In what way?

What suspicion did you have on him before that you don't now?

And like I said following up on your post about your reasoning for why your suspicion on BBT has eased. Lets see if you answer this either?

I then made #584 explaining my thoughts and how it looks like to me that you are trying to get through the day undetected without doing enough to be on anyones radar, sus the people who are absent because thats the 'in' thing to do and they wont push you, they are not here, join Cats wagon because its easy to as there are 2 others on it and you town read everyone else so they must be scum or at least you.. hope.

I would have been ecstatic after a goldfish town flip as she was incredibly scummy. You guys just can't read me.

I actually find this post quite amusing, now bare in mind this is your 6th post after my original question. You say that you would been ecstatic after goldfish flipped town (I am assuming on the premise that if you was scum, again you are not very clear). So you are telling us, that if you was scum then you would have celebrated and been all happy in your posts in a way that would translate through for us to see? do you not think that might give the game away, errm wouldnt we all notice if you was ecstatic after we eliminate a town player? Curious.

And I can sense scum thinks I am somehow an easy lynch today. I see what you are doing BBT. People just can't see that I am disappointed I was wrong and thus have less motivation to try as much.

This is your 7th post after my question - still unanswered - maybe you are feeling the pressure of having a vote on you, but you state that with honestly very little pressure on your slot that "scum thinks I am somehow an easy lynch today" not sure if deflecting or trying to appear town - weird - you then follow on to say "I see what you are doing BBT" I am not sure what this is reference to, you don't quote a post, I can only assume this is something you had been discussing in scum chat with your scum partner BBT about trying to distance but forgot to quote the post (maybe the post was in scum chat, who knows)

And how does it seem like I am trying to move through the day? There's other slots that have not even spoken a damn word like alwaysnever. Why so focused on me spartan? And suddenly cat picks up her effort today after not trying at all d1? What do you make of that?

You follow up your 7th post after my question with you 8th with only 2 minutes inbetween. Here you look as if you are questioning the reasoning on my scum read on you except again you dont quote a post so its unhelpful for anyone scrolling down reading your post without the context. You choose to deflect to an inactive slot that hasnt been active in 8 days as the reason as to why I shouldn't be scum reading you. If you are town Bulba why are you so worried if im "focused" on you?
Either way you still havent answered my question, any of them.

All of this based on a question I did in fact answer. How hilarious

This is your 9th post after my original question also quoted at the top of this post, with you stating that you did in fact answer my question, hmm I wonder if your post where you told me your thoughts on BBT or if you would be happy with a BBT elimination? were deleted or maybe even got lost in the mail? Did you use a pigeon? maybe an owl?
You still have yet to answer my original question or my additional questions in #565

I voted cat and alwaysnever. Should tell you who I fucking want lynched. I can't even fathom how I am an option for a lynch today.

A minute later you follow up with your 10th post after my question with you stating you voted Cat and AlwaysNever (the two most innactive players in the game, and the second vote was a sheep vote) and that it should tell me who you want lynched? but wait Bulba I never asked you who you wanted to be eliminated, I specifically asked you on your specific thoughts on BBT and if you would be happy with a BBT elimination yet you deviate and deflect at every opertunity talking about inactive players.
You the follow up saying how you can't fathom how you are an option for elimination today, well maybe it is because of the lack of game moving content and pure sheeping and attempts to hide under the radar.

For those that can't understand, I would like alwaysnever or cat today.

2 minutes after your 10th we see your 11th post where you clarify you wish to eliminate the most inactive players in the game thats right guys its AlwaysNever and Cat, now by no means am I defending them in their inactivity but with them being inactive it means they are not here to interact with (thankfully Cat has been recently) in order to sort their slot and find out what their alignment is

by their play

not their lack of it.

And spartan I won't let this push over a fabricated reason slide. You are also on my radar.

Here is your 12th post and you dont push me, you dont question me you simple send a very empty threat that you wont let this slide (sounds like I've been lined up for the next night kill, someone help eek) never the less you still dont answer my question shame.

So your response is to vote me for no reason? Have you read what I have said?

Your13th post after my original question and still nothing that answers it at all, I am very disappointed, I believe it is a response to Rad and their vote on you, but you don't quote anyone so again its not completely clear to tell.

And thats it 13 posts after my question to you to date and nothing in any of it that answers me much to your claims that you have indeed answered me, this feels like scum to me.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Spartan117]

Can someone voting Bulba give me a case. I really don't think it's him.

Please read my #610 I think he has been consciously hiding under the radar not pushing anyone that might draw attention to himself, and deflecting to the two most inactive players when questioned.

[Spartan117]

After reading the last couple pages I'm liking Cat + Rad or Alwaysnever.

Why has your stance on Rad changed? you had a town read on him before right?

[Spartan117]

If there was no scum in Goldfish and Cat after day 1 I'll be shocked.

I don't believe you think that they are scum purely based off their inactivity right? Someone not turning up to the game doesn't have any control in what alignment they are, I get if someone is struggling with the game because they are unable to make reads because they are scum can lead to inactivity which is why there is a link between the two but it can't be an exclusive, these newbie games a full of players switching out all the time who aren't scum.

[Spartan117]

I feel like this game may actually be simply but we screwed up the day 1 lynch. Largely because Goldfish did nothing.

If the game is so simple who are the scum team, are you implying its Cat & AlwaysNever

[Spartan117]

I like your post Spartan, I think the effort alone makes you look townie and solidifies my town read on you, however I'm not convinced aboout the Bulba case.

Everything post you've brought up from him I feel like could be read from a town perspective.

Can you isolate the MOST scummy thing you feel bulba has done?

Its not like there is a single scummiest thing he has done, there are lots of things he has done that are scummy from
- jumping on wagons without conviction and sleeping votes
- outright lieing that he has answered my questions when he has very clearly not.
- trying to go under the radar and not seriously push anyone (classic scum play) so as to not be under pressure themselves.
- be completely unable to have any detailed scum reads, simply he has a couple town reads so who evers left must be scum.


I dont like your association that because you get a tonal reads that someone sounds townie that makes them town, its literally your job as scum to sound as if your town...

[Spartan117]

Frankly if it's neither Cat or Goldfish scum deserve the win for being that sneaky,

Why can't scum just be playing very strong as town and go under the radar as everyone is town reading them, I guess like your Rad review.
Im not exactly sure why you are so sure BBT is definitely town, it's not just because of your read on elemk and the tonal read on BBT right?

Im not saying its definitely not Cat and AN (at this point I wish we had someone to sub into the slot its been far too long so we can try and sort the slot properly rather than everyone sussing it for inactivity) but if we had 5 inactive slots would they all be scum?

[Spartan117]

I can't believe spartan is actually seriously doing this. And people are really trying to start a BW on me with such a BS "case" when there is alwaysnever and cat here. Why can't we get alwaysnever out? It's who I originally was voting before spartan and Rad got on me for no reason.

Are you seriously gonna ignore me continuously, are you intentionally trying to be scummy?

Bulba for all us town on the other side of the alignment slide, why do you want always never eliminated so badly? What is it they have done that is so scummy? They've not been lurking, that's what you've been doing, making posts seeming like you're active without actually providing game moving content. They have been completely inactive they might as well have checked out, so why are they scum? What threat do they pose, Bulba?

[Spartan117]

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

Bulba please tell the class where you answered these questions, now please be specific and quote your post, you won't be able to mind because I have already quoted all of yours and explained how it doesn't answer it...

[Spartan117]

BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot.

Has he? In what way?

What suspicion did you have on him before that you don't now?

Also please show everyone where you answered this too, k thanks

[Spartan117]

Nothing he said is true other than me operating mainly on townreads today. Which is not even alignment indicative.

Please actually read my content before responding to it, this is just lazy...

[Spartan117]

Have you seen alwaysnever's posts. A better question is why are you tunnelvisioning me? I have been lurking my fucking ass.

I've not actually because he's been in active for nearly 9 days, I can go back and read them from day 1 but he hasn't been posting here in day 2 not providing any game moving content

[Spartan117]

"Jumping on wagons without conviction " give me a break
... yeah I definitely pushed goldfish without conviction....

Im clearly talking about when you voted for Cat seeing as we are in Day 2 but sure ignore that..

[Spartan117]

Hey Spartan

I know it's kinda shitty to make you do the work but can you point out where he lied outright?

Hey um I'd rather you read through my really long post, I'm on phone atm and about to go to sleep, but can try and make it as clear as possible when I get home from work tomorrow, I can also add these new posts he's providing, it's great when they do the work for you.

[Spartan117]

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

Bulba please tell the class where you answered these questions, now please be specific and quote your post, you won't be able to mind because I have already quoted all of yours and explained how it doesn't answer it...

He is in the four I mentioned but I wouldn't be as willing to get him out as I would always or cat

That tells me nothing about where you answered my questions, it also doesn't answer the questions, telling me you'd rather get Cat or AN out than BBT isn't a comprehensive analysis or read on BBTs play....
And neither is it you telling me if you would be happy with a BBT elimination.
Telling me you'd be more willing to eliminate cat or AN doesn't tell me if you are ok with BBT being elimed it just says you want them elimed more...

[Spartan117]

I seriously don't see how you don't read my posts coming into today as dejected town. But I guess that is just a me issue.

Who's to say you weren't just dejected because your night kill failed.. huh?

[Spartan117]

flowerdogs replaces AlwaysNever.

Welcome Flowerdogs

[Spartan117]

If I am wrong about the Elemk slot I would rather know now - then spend the whole game being paranoid about it

I get you, apart from the general scumminess of bulba lurking, not pushing for any reads, no intention to scum hunt just wanting to eliminate the players who aren't here (which will be interesting with flowerdogs sub in if Bulba still really wants to eliminate their slot, if he flips his pov and stops scum reading them when they produce content it proves my point). I see Bulbas reluctance to answer my questions about BBT which he has still not done, as either
- A tell of him not wanting to get involved in a wagon of his scum partner and not wanting to express a strong town read on him in the event of getting paired up with him some sort of distancing attempt
- or his inability to provide actual reads in players providing content with his only scum reads who he 'hopes' are scum that are players who ate not active because he is scum and scum struggle more with making reads as they know who is town and who is not.

So I think bulba is the vote for me today and with a scum flip we look at scum partner associations which I would put BBT at the higher end of that list.

[Spartan117]

This game had picked up a bit since I started my push on bulba, I am disappointed there wasn't more content while I was asleep.

[Spartan117]

Still pushing the "bulba is lurking" thing... I am so tempted to just ignore you

This, is literally lurking....

[Spartan117]

I dont know if you know this Bulba, but you still have not answered any of my questions...

[Spartan117]

Bulba what are your thoughts on BBT, would you be happy with a BBT elimination today?

^ These two.

[Spartan117]

BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot.

Has he? In what way?

What suspicion did you have on him before that you don't now?

And these two, are also still unanswered..

[Spartan117]

Still pushing the "bulba is lurking" thing... I am so tempted to just ignore you

If you was actually town you would be trying to engage with any of what I have said properly, except it seems to blow away in the wind...
Makes me more sure about my read.

[Spartan117]

Everyone should nominate two people to lynch today - and then as a town. We should all agree to lynch the person with the most nominations.

How do we do this without the people going firth influencing those who go later?
As its important that each person actually scum reads them with a valid reason rather than just eliminating them cos other people are pushing them.

[Spartan117]

First* sorry in transit on phone

[Spartan117]

Maybe. Let's give it some more time though. Flower's ramping up and has already put out a lot of content that people can interact with. Fancy's coming back from VLA today I believe? I think it'll get interesting in the next day or two. I know we're running low on time but I think there'll be a lot of content in the next 24 hours.

I've not read through all their content in general but from skimming through it, it looks very promising, I glad we have them subbing in, also a fresh set of eyes help analyse things in a different way, I'm interested to see their perspective, also looks like a lot of content already given how hard it must be to sub in so late with so much to read.

[Spartan117]

I would probably pick Bulba and BBT myself, I feel like scum and town reads can evolve over time, they don't have to, but they can right? With further evaluation

Also what's Bulba gonna say? my guess me and Cat? They have a couple town reads who are generally the same as everyone else and not actual solid reason given scum reads, it's difficult to give original material when you just follow everyone else.

[Spartan117]

I really hope there is a scum in those two. I am not letting spartan off the hook. My pool of players I will be looking into today are:

Spartan
Cat
AlwaysNever
BBT but I am less sure on this one.

Maybe from this?

[Spartan117]

And spartan I won't let this push over a fabricated reason slide. You are also on my radar.

Or maybe this?

I am also interested to see what you will say to scum read AN with flower subbing in.

[Spartan117]

Juice: Bulba / BBT
Spartan: Bulba/ BBT
Bulba: Cat/AlwaysNever
Cat: Bulba/BBT

No Nominations:
BBT
FP
Rad
Flower

Hold up I still haven't done my reread but my noms were Cat and Spartan. Honestly Bulba an BBT are two of the last people I'd vote along with Juice.

Interesting, what exactly is it that puts myself in your top 2 scum reads that you would want to eliminate me today, FP?

Also @Juice I was thinking what if we also did a similar thing like what FP has done here on the last 2 people we would want to eliminate to try and gauge where everyone stands with that. I get its less important than the bottom two but for example here FP's last two, I assume strongest town reads (along with juice)? are the same two that 3 other players would put in their bottom two, I'm curious what it would look like.

My 2 least likely would be Juice and I guess FP.

[Spartan117]

the frustration with Spartan's case being faked.

What are you referring to? My case being faked?

Is this an attempt some empty shadiness?

[Spartan117]

Juice: Bulba / BBT
Spartan: Bulba/ BBT
Bulba: Cat/AlwaysNever
Cat: Bulba/BBT
FP: Cat/Spartan
Flower: Bulba/BBT

BBT
Rad

Bulba has 4
BBT has 4
Cat has 2

at this point it really looks like we are going Bulba or BBT - dependeing on what Rad says

See the thing here now is it gives the remaining 2 a chance to influence things as they have seen everyone else's votes, I get that there wasn't really a way for us to do it all at the same time. Lets say at the end we have a draw of 5/5 what would you say our next move is then Juice?

[Spartan117]

oh i actually meant {the disappointment about Goldfish flipping town / the frustration with Spartan's case} --> being faked. so neither!

Ah ok fair enough, just wanted to check.

[Spartan117]

i don't think anyone has been saying those are simply the two wolves

If I haven't explicitly been saying it yet, I've certainly been thinking it, the way bulba scum reads Elemk to then having BBT ease his sus on the slot with no real explanation as to how that process happened. Also I believe there was an example of what looks like BBT diverting attention /easing the pressure off Bulba but I can't exactly remember the situation so I would need to go back and try and find that.

[Spartan117]

VOTE: BBT

(@Fancy)

this vote is worthless - if im not voting him. Just saying

Then why don't you come back on them today and see the flip now rather than tomorrow?

VOTE: BBT E-2

[Spartan117]

VOTE: Spartan

going to take a long break until tmrw

We had what looked like a strong wagon on Cat
With a few single votes sprinkled around.
You place your vote on BBT to appease FP after he asks you to place a vote.
You putting it on BBT still requires 3 more votes for him to be eliminated so there is no real pressure of him being the day kill.
Especially with a lot of people focused on Cat and (I believe) Bulba being the highest on the nominations list started by juice.
I know bulba and BBT were your two nominations so assumed highest scum reads. Which you had made after seeing multiple other players make the same nomination.
Juice makes a comment to your vote saying that BBT won't end up getting eliminated unless he is on the wagon.
I then place my vote on BBT asking Juice to come back and place his vote on BBT which would put BBT on E-1
You then read through my ISO and make some sort of case on me
Which is fine, the fact you voted me doesn't matter in my opinion, its more you took your vote off a pressure increasing wagon when you saw it might go from e-4 before your vote to e-1 after my vote and a potential juice vote.
I woke up this morning and quickly skimmed through and saw bulbas vote on BBT thinking he was now at E-1 but alas you removed your vote from BBT.
Which I get the feeling that you had put your vote out into your respective scum pool and then taken it off after the slot received more pressure, because maybe BBT is your scum partner that you are trying to distance from?

What also pinged me that led me to this thought process is what I believe bulba has mentioned recently about BBT which I have been thinking since the first instance in day 1, that BBT very assuredly town read AlwaysNever this same slot as Flower with them being a very inactive slot leading them to sub out, I never understood why BBT was so certain of this slots alignment unless he knew something we didn't even before the first night phase which is only possible for scum partners. To the point of him defending them I believe not just once but multiple times, I'd have to go check to find it.

With BBT not around and a lot of attention on Cat and Bulba it looks like an appropriate time for Flower a slot that BBT so assuredly town reads to put their vote on them in the background while as Juice seems to feel like we can eliminate Cat today and BBT will be eliminated for sure tomorrow, I'm not as certain this will happen.

[Spartan117]

At this point who doesn't scum read me? Looks as if everyone does, which is interesting.

I dont really know what's going on with the no night kills, 2 nights in a row as well, it's making me very apprehensive, I feel like I need to re-evaluate everything.

[Spartan117]

Juice, bulba and Flowers scum reads me d3.

FP are you still scum reading me D3?
BBT do you scum read me D3?

[Spartan117]

The fact that everyone seems to be scum reading BBT (except FP) is making me think they are actually town, this is getting really confusing, I am feeling really paranoid.

[Spartan117]

BBT I checked back and you're right, I didn't really engage you much. That's just coincidence though. You were talking plenty in thread and I never had to push you for you to make content. I'd have engaged with you more if I felt like I needed specific content from you. Simple as that. Reading and judging that content from you is difficult for me whether it's something I pushed you to make or you just made it on your own.

Rad do you scum read me?

[Spartan117]

Am I just scum? I read my role, it said I was just town? What if we are just in a game of 9 sussy townies

[Spartan117]

Are the scum just me and Rad, cos I've been sussed by everyone apart from Rad, is that how this works?

[Spartan117]

Sorry I don't understand how would we have 4 clears?

[Spartan117]

My radar has been pretty off this game. Gun to my head I'd say it's Rad and Flowers but you're in the suspect pool.

I'd say I like being in the suspect pool because it means I'm less likely to get night killed, but there hasn't been a single night kill and its day 3, town have been killed more by town than scum, it feels more like there are no witches just scared towns folk, thrusting about pitch forks and flaming torches.

[Spartan117]

I'm operating under the assumption that the doc/Jk is carrying rather than scum just forgetting to kill. But worst case this is the last day PRs can claim safely.

Is there a world where its you and juice and you are trying to go for a no night kill game and get all the town to eliminate itself off?

[Spartan117]

Maybe this is just confirmation bias but spartan sounds so fake in these last few posts.

Oh ok, I am scared I don't know what's going on, I dont know who to trust.

[Spartan117]

Maybe this is just confirmation bias but spartan sounds so fake in these last few posts.

I get that sussing me fits the narrative that I'm scum, but just for a second let's just say I'm town, who is the scum team and why?

[Spartan117]

Sorry I don't understand how would we have 4 clears?

Up to. If we have two PRs and a doc that's 4 clears. A Jk at least gives us decent info.

And that's not even including the other PR who might have information on clears or something good idea.

But what if the doctors stuck in the jail and can't speak or something? What then?

[Spartan117]

I'm operating under the assumption that the doc/Jk is carrying rather than scum just forgetting to kill. But worst case this is the last day PRs can claim safely.

Is there a world where its you and juice and you are trying to go for a no night kill game and get all the town to eliminate itself off?

I mean I'd encourage you to ISO me and Juice and come to that conclusion.

Of course, and like I've read through both you and juices posts and neither of you look inherently scummy, idk what to do anymore.

[Spartan117]

So Rad is it in towns best interest to claim in a particular order.

Like VTs first or something?

I dont think so right, because if VTs claim it forces PRs to claim? Whenever I've seen claims its been PRs doing it first.

I think I claimed at the start of d1 in a game years ago, a roll that guaranteed me town and no one counter claimed it made it so hard to play the rest of the game as no one challenged me I just felt like a spectator was weird.

[Spartan117]

If we don't have claims d3 where do we go from there? Like if no one comes forward I guess we just try to proceed as before.

[Spartan117]

Yeah the more i think about it the more i lean towards not forcing a mass claim. If a PR has info that helps, they should weigh how much it helps with their risk of being the next NK. Also weigh how much their info would have helped town if they were tonight's NK and that info was never revealed.

Ooh I guess thats kinda big if the PR dies tonight and we don't get the 1 or 2 clears for the people who was saved night one and two.

[Spartan117]

Like if everyone who is scum reading me suddenly couldn't anymore, that would be nice.

[Spartan117]

I still think it's juice in which case BBT is cleared too because he picked up on the same PR breadcrumbing I did.

Wait why does this clear BBT?

[Spartan117]

and preferably the other PR claims before Doctor and JK

Why would the other PR need to claim before the Dr/Jk?

[Spartan117]

and preferably the other PR claims before Doctor and JK

Why would the other PR need to claim before the Dr/Jk?

There is currently a 1/5 that the other PR is a vanilla townie.

[Spartan117]

4/5 that it isn't then? So everyone from this line onwards if they are the other PR - reallly needs to claim

----------------------------------------

See this is why I didnt want to do it this way, I was hoping on the off chance someone would claim something non doctor or jailkeeper based and I could counter claim but I guess the cats out the bag. It's why I alluded to it a few times with everyone scum reading me yet I'm a PR :/

I have some info and will divulge but I need to understand something first.

The problem with doing it this way juice is it was basically like everyone claiming VT first as it means everyone who isnt PR will claim leaving the PR no choice but to claim at a time of their choosing but oh well, its done now. Now any guesses which PR I am? might as well have some fun with this?

[Spartan117]

Other scenario I am praying for is real PR/PRs are hiding and spartan is mafia.

Your prayers are going unanswered atm.

[Spartan117]

My current pet theory is pretty wild and it also involves juice erroneously believing that JKing someone clears them.

This is what FP was talking about Juice.

[Spartan117]

i mean only one mafia need to choose a kill for a kill to go through right?

But the mafia chooses which one of the mafia does the kill and chooses the target, they dont know who the jailkeeper is performing their action on, then the mod figures it out at the same time and tells us.

[Spartan117]

So I believe the FP being targeted N1 makes sense, although I'm less sure of Rad being targeted N2 since there was varying suspicion from a few players on their slot so makes it feel less of a priority elimination and more likely 1 of the scum alongside either Bulba or Flowers IMO.

[Spartan117]

Scenario 1
So I think D3 we elim 1 of BBT Bulba or Flowers and if 1 scum is hit, Juice jails rad and then we elim Rad day 4 and game over.

Scenario 2
its just 2 scum from BBT, Flowers and Bulba.

I was honestly a bit surprised that there was encouragement/positivity on revealing roles from bulba and flowers as there is a good chance 1 is scum if not both, and its kinda game solved.

[Spartan117]

So I believe the FP being targeted N1 makes sense, although I'm less sure of Rad being targeted N2 since there was varying suspicion from a few players on their slot so makes it feel less of a priority elimination and more likely 1 of the scum alongside either Bulba or Flowers IMO.

I mean it makes sense to me knowing I'm town, but I get the hesitation. Who after Fancy and Juice do you think is most highly town read? I'd say me, wouldn't you? So if you're scum trying to figure out a target, do you try for someone so heavily town read after being blocked the first night? Or do you target someone good enough? Hell me being NK target probably causes some crazy wifom too that I'll have to think about.

Sure potentially which with you town makes scenario 2 correct game solve, although If im not mistaken day 2 had some shade thrown on you by BBT and FP. I cant remember if anyone else had would need to check but just from my own perspective as someone who was town reading you, I thought that there would have been better options.

[Spartan117]

I'm never going to be elimmed from this game so might as well vote bbt

You do know you are currently in a pool of 4 players where 2 of you is mafia...?

[Spartan117]

Spartan just hated me for no reason. Ignore him and let's win this game

Yes, lets ignore one of 3 conf town...

[Spartan117]

Don't be scared, we can elim me the day after.

We both scum read Rad and that JK on Rad looks pretty convincing. Let's elim there first, shall we?

What do you think of a elim between bulba and flowers and provided whichever we elim is red, juice jails Rad and we win right?

[Spartan117]

Spartan is terrible if he is still even considering me.

Yes the conf town player is such a bad bad player for considering 1 of the 4 players in the scum pool of a 2 person scum team, please continue digging your hole.

[Spartan117]

BBT was softing PR as well so why would mafia target Rad of all people?

You think the only other wagon of day 2 would have been the target of the night 2 kill?

[Spartan117]

Except I am not dying

You have a bullet proof jacket or something?

[Spartan117]

You are hyper focused on me for no reason. Nobody else wants me out so thankfully you aren't getting your wish

If you was town surely you would be worried of only 1 other town reading you as scum, because wouldnt the two scum of bbt flowers and rad just jump on you?

[Spartan117]

Don't be scared, we can elim me the day after.

We both scum read Rad and that JK on Rad looks pretty convincing. Let's elim there first, shall we?

What do you think of a elim between bulba and flowers and provided whichever we elim is red, juice jails Rad and we win right?

I can do Bulba but I'm not prepared to elim flowers before both Rad and Bulba.

Rad > Bulba > Flowers

I can only respect the consistency of your read of their slot.

[Spartan117]

Guys guys guys please calm it a little with the votes, I know we need 4 to elim but there is still so much more of Day 3 to go and more to discuss, why do we want to end it so quickly?

[Spartan117]

You are hyper focused on me for no reason. Nobody else wants me out so thankfully you aren't getting your wish

Maybe I have information? aha

[Spartan117]

Mech question for someone - Is a 2v2 where 2 scum are alive vs 2 town an auto win for scum?

I believe so, I mean at that point i think its 2 votes to elim and the scum can just vote off 1 player, someone correct me if im wrong, i think 3 town and 2 scum is the last chance for town to elim a scum from a 2 scum alive situation.

[Spartan117]

If that slot flips red, I quit Mafia.

Does this count if you are also mafia or is this just coming from if you are town? aha

[Spartan117]

Spartan what is your actual role? Being the last person to claim PR - after everyone said noo. But then not outing what role, means that you aren't actually clear at all. And I shouldn't have outed myself

I'm town tracker so we have a mafia roleblocker - A2

[Spartan117]

If that slot flips red, I quit Mafia.

Does this count if you are also mafia or is this just coming from if you are town? aha

Only if I am town of course! If I'm Mafia, I'll also quit Mafia. How about that?

Hmm does this come from a desire to give it a day and put away the stabby stabby gloves after many successful years of playing with us like your food aha

[Spartan117]

Spartan did say he wanted to cause chaos. Maybe this is it

hehe hehe

[Spartan117]

Spartan what is your actual role? Being the last person to claim PR - after everyone said noo. But then not outing what role, means that you aren't actually clear at all. And I shouldn't have outed myself

I'm town tracker so we have a mafia roleblocker - A2

Hmm, actions?

hmm actions, yes actions erm (quickly googles tracker actions lmao)

but seriously night 1 I tracked bulba and he visited FP, which is why day 2 I was pushing him,

and night 2 i tracked flowers and he did not go anywhere night 2.

So either Rad was roleblocked night 2 because he was jailed or one of BBT/Bulba tried to kill Rad night 2 and was blocked because Rad was jailed.

Either way Nighty Night Bulba Baby

[Spartan117]

Interestingly, Fancy has been on both wagons though, trying not to WIFOM myself on him.

I think its too late for FP he is just town at this point, if hes scum gg

[Spartan117]

Interestingly, Fancy has been on both wagons though, trying not to WIFOM myself on him.

I think its too late for FP he is just town at this point, if hes scum gg

Yeah, I concur. I kind of just want the ego post, you know?

Aha could you imagine.

[Spartan117]

night 1 I tracked bulba and he visited FP, which is why day 2 I was pushing him

Bulba did you miss this?

[Spartan117]

Nighty Night Bulba Baby

And subsequently this

[Spartan117]

idgaf who dies as long as it is not me and town wins.

What if town wins because you get elimed?

[Spartan117]

Well the only consolation from this game is your reactions when I flip town. And then you all will win the award for worst elimination ever.

But bulba I saw you night 1 visit FP, you've been caught

[Spartan117]

Garbage ass town

Why do you think I knew it was you day 2?

[Spartan117]

Spartan is legit fake PR if that claim is real. And rad is his partner most likely.

PEdit: I am legitimately town so if that claim is real you are scum.

Are you trying to tell me that you didnt try and kill FP night 1 even tho I saw you?

[Spartan117]

why is it a fake claim? I saw you

[Spartan117]

Spartan wants to waste the last opportunity before mylo on me. Props to him. Seems like he will be getting his lynch on town!Bulba. And I grimace at the thought that he is really about to get his desire fulfilled.

But youre scum, why are you keeping up this facade?

[Spartan117]

spartan omg

What?

[Spartan117]

spartan omg

Did you see my hair, because it is indeed, fabulous.

[Spartan117]

Makes sense with them both posting teams including each other but not going for each other as well

Also, if Bulba legit thought Spartan was faking, he would vote him, no? Actions not lining up with words

Exactly, right.

[Spartan117]

Why would I vote him? It is possible he is just testing me and really is PR. I have no idea what he is doing.

Night 1 I got a message that I saw you visit FP, and Juice jailkept them protecting them.

[Spartan117]

Not funny if he was scum and won.

Sure it would aha

[Spartan117]

I still can't believe you are serious. Tell me if your claim is real so I can vote you

I mean it doesn't matter if you vote me or not, I am conf town, I very clearly eluded to it before anyone revealed their roles..

[Spartan117]

I still can't believe you are serious. Tell me if your claim is real so I can vote you

Ok fine day 1 I tracked FP and it gave me no result which makes sense because he was being jailkept by juice.

But day 2 I did track flowers and it did say they didnt go anywhere,
which means if Rad is scum its either not Rad/Flowers or Rad carried out the night kill action night 2.

Bulba can still be scum, but I think they would have given in if they had visited FP night 1 so if bulba is scum I think their partner visit FP night 1.

[Spartan117]

IDK what else to say.

Just tell us you are mafia anyway and your partner X (BBT/Rad/Flowers) carried out the night kill night 1.

I'll tell ya what bulba, if you tell us who your scum partner is, (is it Rad?) then we will elim them first, yeah? does that sound good?

[Spartan117]

I am so blatantly town.

If you are actually town, this is so unhelpful for town, its very counter productive.

[Spartan117]

if you are going to vote Rad - I am just going to push on you tbh

Juice is this because you are convinced Rad is innocent?

[Spartan117]

Personally I don't wish to vote Rad today, my elim pool for day 3 is just Bulba/Flowers/BBT.

[Spartan117]

Ohhh, a reaction test. Nice.

Bulba failed.

Bulba/Rad.

Easy

Yeah I tried, I thought it made sense given my day 2 play, and I thought you would see straight through it, i guess we will see post game, if I had tried that on you/Flowers/Rad on who it would have been correct on and then if they would have folded. I just didnt think you would have folded to that, but I guess we will never know.

[Spartan117]

Personally I don't wish to vote Rad today, my elim pool for day 3 is just Bulba/Flowers/BBT.

same

At this point I am waiting for the master detective mr FP to join us and share their thoughts on all that has gone on, I think there is a lot to read through, hopefully I helped that somewhat, but yeah interested in what FP has to say.

[Spartan117]

I still can't believe you are serious. Tell me if your claim is real so I can vote you

Ok fine day 1 I tracked FP and it gave me no result which makes sense because he was being jailkept by juice.

But day 2 I did track flowers and it did say they didnt go anywhere,
which means if Rad is scum its either not Rad/Flowers or Rad carried out the night kill action night 2.

Bulba can still be scum, but I think they would have given in if they had visited FP night 1 so if bulba is scum I think their partner visit FP night 1.

ok so this should mean to everyone that if i am mafia then my only partner can be rad right??

No, i wish, it means that if your partner is BBT or bulba then they were the one who targeted Rad night 2 not you and that Rad is town. which would be a much easier game solve lol.

[Spartan117]

I can't imagine reading my lines and going "oh that is scum". I was so confused trying to figure out if he was seriously outing as scum or reaction testing.

I mean I was reaction testing just now saying you visited FP night one, but I have legit been scum reading you this game, and I'm conf town so take of that what you will, you can flame me for stupidly scum reading you if you are town because you are town, but its silly to think that everyone else who doesnt know your alignment is just gonna know you are town, especially when you have been acting shady af.

[Spartan117]

Not my fault you guys just choose to ignore everything I say.

The irony in this post is 10/10 hilarious.

[Spartan117]

Bulba - are you aware most of you posts are "why me?" which normally translates as "fry me"

This.

[Spartan117]

I made seevral good points that just went ignored. Such as all of the "scumpool" except me being on the town BW

You had literal direct responses from people about that, the fact you ignored them just shows how bad a town you are if you are town.

[Spartan117]

That is how I play as town. I question why people come after me

That's literally not good town play. the point of the game is to go after people and hunt the scum.

[Spartan117]

@spartan this is still so hard because i actually think bulb comes out of this looking townier than before :/ -- i think this is how you are reading your reaction test results too? from my pov i seriously need to consider rad + bbt... (whereas in my mind i've pairing bbt/bulb since day two)

If you think Bulba is town or at least more town now because of the reaction test then yeah from your perspective Rad/BBT should make sense to you.

[Spartan117]

Any town that is okay being killed is a bad town. You have to question the arguments against you.

I am more than ok as town being eliminated if it means town win the game... its not in towns prerogative to not get eliminated there are typically 6 others at least from the start, for scum there is only 1 other.

[Spartan117]

Why would I express doubts to the lengths I did.

To get town points when you see then flip town?

[Spartan117]

I responded to their arguments against my point as well.

So you acknowledge they responded to you then?

[Spartan117]

Any town that is okay being killed is a bad town. You have to question the arguments against you.

I am more than ok as town being eliminated if it means town win the game... its not in towns prerogative to not get eliminated there are typically 6 others at least from the start, for scum there is only 1 other.

The difference is here it will be mylo after I die.

Sure which is why you should want to help find the clues in the pages and pages of text why it is 2 of bbt/flowers/rad rather than keep telling us we are stupid for suspecting you 1 of 4 people 2 of which are scum.

[Spartan117]

I still can't believe you are serious. Tell me if your claim is real so I can vote you

Ok fine day 1 I tracked FP and it gave me no result which makes sense because he was being jailkept by juice.

But day 2 I did track flowers and it did say they didnt go anywhere,
which means if Rad is scum its either not Rad/Flowers or Rad carried out the night kill action night 2.

Bulba can still be scum, but I think they would have given in if they had visited FP night 1 so if bulba is scum I think their partner visit FP night 1.

@FP ^

I like your point about BBT, I was already reading him as town day 3 before the role claims, so that just leaves these 3

Bulba/Flowers
Bulba/Rad
Rad/Flowers

My vote day 3 is either on Bulba or Flowers.

@BBT what do you think about this that your strong town read of Flowers is in a pool of 3 players where 2 are scum?

[Spartan117]

Fancy, scum can multitask. Roleblocker can both block and kill at the same time

Yes I believe that is how it works too.

[Spartan117]

Setup Info

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Bolded part.

So scum BBT has multiple options to deal with juice if he has any idea at that juice is PR.

Would it be possible for roleblocker Rad to block Juice from jailing him and then kill Juice? Because if not I would be happy for Juice to jail Rad again and go for one of Bulba or Flowers.

If Rad can block the jail and kill Juice then I would be more open to a Rad elim, although I want to read through the three slots thoroughly to look for scum crumbs.

[Spartan117]

Night 2, 1 of 3 things happened

Bulba/Flowers - with bulba trying to NK Rad,
Rad/Bulba - where Rad tried to NK somebody
Rad/Flowers - where Rad tried to NK somebody

This can then allude to mind states of players, who would have been trying to do the night kill night 2 to try and not get blocked as they got blocked night 1.

Im at work atm but tonight will read their ISOs with that in mind.

[Spartan117]

UNVOTE:

Just to stop any potential shenanigans

Appreciate it, I'd like us to not hit the 1 town out of them 3 slots if we can.

[Spartan117]

@Spartan, why no Rad today?

Rad can be eliminated today, I was preferring the other two because I thought if Rad was jailed and was scum we would be fine, but as you said that's not the case it would be 1 of the 3 today then.

My order atm is currently Bulba then Rad then Flowers.

Reason being that I already had the strongest scum read on bulba out of the three slots, and if flowers is scum they didn't do the night kill night 2 which doesn't make them less scum mechanically but I just feel that there is less chance they are scum, like I said I'm gonna go through tonight and share from their ISOs what makes me think who is scum out of the three.

[Spartan117]

Makes sense with them both posting teams including each other but not going for each other as well.

Mostly this.

Bulba seemed to be scum reading Rad but was reluctant to vote there when pushed. I feel like Bulba need coercing into voting Rad which he really shouldn't have.

I plan on going back through the game to see if there is any more of this when I can get to my PC and have the time.

Yeah when you are the 1 town in a group of 3 including 2 scum it should be a no brainer the other two are scum at that point.

[Spartan117]

Let’s let Rad say something and then eliminate him.

Oof what a thing to wake up to. Well I'm sure you guys will be fine even after I flip green. Had fun but happy to go now.

VOTE: rad

That's only a total of 3 putting you to L-1, please no one else vote I still want a chance to read through and share my thoughts, as I believe does BBT.

[Spartan117]

Rad was one of the few people I wasn't pushing on - so a great target to try and kill if FP is mafia and wants to keep me alive.

But how would FP have known you was the jailer that jailed him at that point in time?

[Spartan117]

I still feel like there is some bias going on here. If I self voted and let myself be lynched as town, juice would have said "performative". Why is he acting like it's a town tell if rad does it? I think rad unvoting should say something here. Rad never intended on actually dying as he knows juice is not set on voting him

We're not biased just trying to figure this shit out .

I do like your outrage though.

Is this bulba trying to heavily distance himself from his scum partner so after Rad we go for flowers? I feels a bit like it to me.

[Spartan117]

Any.

[Spartan117]

I think we are overcomplicating this and he is just the mafia goon that was assigned every kill. What mafia team would make their mafia PR kill with the possibility of being found out?

How would you know he was assigned every kill bulba? Is that because he is your scum partner? We have 0 information to say he attempted the night kill night 1 so your choice of words is very interesting.

[Spartan117]

I think we are overcomplicating this and he is just the mafia goon that was assigned every kill. What mafia team would make their mafia PR kill with the possibility of being found out?

Also since the mafia wouldn't know what town PR were in the setup how would the mafia know then even could get found out?

[Spartan117]

Spartan was seriously when he said he tracked bulba night 1 or was that an rxn test.

Reaction test.

[Spartan117]

I think we are overcomplicating this and he is just the mafia goon that was assigned every kill. What mafia team would make their mafia PR kill with the possibility of being found out?

How would you know he was assigned every kill bulba? Is that because he is your scum partner? We have 0 information to say he attempted the night kill night 1 so your choice of words is very interesting.

If there was a setup with a roleblocker and a goon, which one would you make perform the kills? Clearly the goon

It completely depends on the situation if the goon is being heavily sussed and more likely to get tracked or jailkept you give it to the other mafia. Scum should give the night kill to whichever is less likely to get caught doesn't matter if they ate PR scum or not

[Spartan117]

Did Spartan claim Tracker before or after I claimed Jail Keeper?

After but I heavily alluded to it before.

[Spartan117]

Spartan isn't 100% clear but I look a them like I look at BBT they are like 90% clear in my eyes.

Theoretically same as you, I think we are just looking at a Rad, Bulba, Flowers scum pool. Don't think we need to complicate it with anything else tbh.

[Spartan117]

To be clear I don't really want to vote Bulba but I will if there is a town consensus.

Why are you so against bulba? As you're sure it's Rad who is their partner?

[Spartan117]

I mean in theory as long as everyone sticks to their guns and we vote Rad/Bulba/Flowers in any order we win.

But I'm worried about a potential flowers/BBT/Spartan kind of endgame.

Where flowers convinces Spartan BBT is big braining.

Which is why I'd rather not mislim at all.

I think from BBTs tone day 3 and your comtent I'm pretty happy with this simple game solve

[Spartan117]

BBT should not be cleared at all for the reasons I stated above. It is more than likely that BBT roleblocker would not roleblock the same person he was targeting for a kill aka Juice. I would assume that rad was sent to kill Juice and then BBT roleblocked his other PR read.

Yeah this is totally possible, but it’s really suboptimal.

You do have a point that in general there exists options for BBT scum but I think they are all pretty unlikely.

I’m starting to think that both Bulba and BBT are town and it probably is just flowers and Rad.
But that’s because I’m buying that Bulba is still trying to figure out the game, even if I think they might be wrong about BBT.

You dont think that the above just stinks of performative theatre to try and distance Bulba and Rad?
Then to end up with Bulba no longer wanting to eliminate Rad.... how convenient.

[Spartan117]

Who cares if I didn't know juice was JK? It makes sense to kill him at some point just by virtues of being the towniest.

Which is what most likely happened night 2 when you got your scum buddy Rad to try and kill Juice but he was jailed so couldn't.

I guess it is very you to say it makes a lot of sense for you to night kill one of the town who had you at the top of their town list...

[Spartan117]

To address your point about my argument not making sense, why would roleblocker and goon both target same person for kill and roleblock?

This had already been discussed multiple times, please read the thread, it looks silly at this point.

After n1 mafia know there is either Doc or Jailer, so while they know the doc can't heal themselves, it is a safer play as scum to roleblock the PR they are night killing to prevent what potentially happened with the Jailer jailing the mafia who has chosen to carry out the night kill.
Its that simple really, it's just the optimal play in that position and not worth doing otherwise.

[Spartan117]

You do not even think for a second that I could be genuinely game solving?

Not when you're not even reading the thread..

[Spartan117]

Why couldn't it be a BBT and Rad team spartan?

This has already been explained as well, please read other people's content.

[Spartan117]

I can only assume the people who still wanna vote BBT are either scum or haven't read my posts.

I'd you are town and have read my posts and still want to vote BBT please explain how.

@Bulba...

[Spartan117]

Motherfucker tracked me!

Aha yeah, if you had gone for the role block and kill on juice I would have got ya