Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Roden]

No meme in the VC rip

VOTE: Vivax

[Roden]

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

VOTE: Loki

[Roden]

Dann's obvtown here

[Roden]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

[Roden]

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

[Roden]

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

Ngl I opened up the browser when I got home, quoted the Loki post, and then just smoked and went on youtube for a few hours instead

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

[Roden]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1. place a vote down on an easy to push townie
2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

VOTE: Shoshin

Hi. My role in this game is Ascetic Miller.

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

It's possible an Ascetic-Enabler exists. Otherwise it just sounds like you got a troll role.

Marci's vibes seem a bit off

Datisi feels kinda town though

---

I will participate.

Appreciate that people think I'm fun and active. Uhhh...if we're doing this then I guess I'd pick Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

Also don't mind my role or skill set. I got my first pick, so that's nice.

1

How busy is everyone else's hoods? Is most of the gameplay just happening there? The set up is interesting enough that I feel like more people should be talking.

---

I have no idea who I'd want as a leader just looking at the player list. From what I'd guess though, we want to elect consensus town reads who are also good at reading others, since it looks like we'll have to rely on them to make choices in future events.

I have no idea who I'd want as a leader just looking at the player list. From what I'd guess though, we want to elect consensus town reads who are also good at reading others, since it looks like we'll have to rely on them to make choices in future events.

so where's your vote for me?

I don't know you.

HEAL: NotAHecticAlt

I town read Andante but I understand that she doesn't want to be nominated. So my second heal will just go to whichever of her town reads I agree with the most.

Aisa Eiji Loki Gamma all feel town so far

FB seems like he's kinda just posturing

---

VOTE: Titus

Just random

1, 4, 4

I have a cool thought experiment I want to try.

Let's all write down which three numbers we would submit if we were running a scum team.

I will explain after everyone writes down their numbers how this will help us.

I will go first.

1, 3, 13

I'd probably try to be tactical and talk it out with the team first. If it was entirely my choice, probably 4, 11, 19. Since I think they would be uncommon low numbers. But one team mate having an unreasonably large number does have some strategic merit.

Actually, I'm guessing that's why STD asked me about my vote.

---

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

I guess since this is Day 1, all the current votes are senseless.

My notes:

Alianna
- was informed that furtiveglance is Town?? (Mason or Friendly Neighbor?)
- asks who wants to be nightkilled (sus)

Well this is just a disgusting post to start off the game.

Disgusting? Sure. But is it scummy? Ehhh...I think newbscum tries harder to look townie. Pretty sure it was just meant to be a joke post since it was during RVS.

Then again, they disappeared afterward. I understand that not much is going on right now, but it's been almost three days since their last post. Let's get some pressure going, maybe?

VOTE: Hutmeil

---

BwG2 ISO that I won't drag quotes out of because it would be a pain

Anyway these are all somewhat recent town games, it's not +scum for me, I'm just masking

Also in what universe is Loki an easy push

[Roden]

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

in the coalition game you were significantly more townie when pressured. Coalition Micro

similarly in Fusion Upick

when you're scum you tend to kind of don't have that kind of edge/angry tone in your voice.

You don't have the same kind of edge when defending yourself and it feels like you're not quite really here and more importantly you don't feel like you want to be here.

SCP
Radio Buzz


I understand from your last completed mini normal[2276] you were fustrated over being nightkilled on n1 and perhaps not wanting to be nightkilled would be a valid explanation for maybe not being as townie as you have been in the past but this game is not really that sort of game.

in this game, scum can't just shoot the towniest townies - it would be quite suicidal of them to do so because it would make the 1v1s quite lopsided, they have to actually shoot in the murky middle so to speak, as a result you should be trying to be as townie as possible but it doesn't feel like you're enthusiastic about this game at all.

Fusion was just a dumb Day 1 and A50 was being an asshole

Coalition I was mad because I was invested and actually correct on 90% of my reads and fire played like shit which pissed me off more

Not really comparable to a game that hasn't gone anywhere yet and I'm getting D1 voted for the same shit I say literally every game

As for SCP, I was literally at Disneyland on vacation and town fantasized a reason to scum read me, I didn't seem like I wanted to be in that because I legit didn't want to be for a few days lol

Radio Buzz...ehhh my only excuse is that everyone spammed the thread and I couldn't keep up

Besides that I have plenty of town games where I never really got mad, and a few scum games where I was invested immediately. I don't really think this meta analysis holds up when looking at the entirety of my game history.

[Roden]

what is masking?

"Normal" passing in social situations basically

[Roden]

Oh that's actually kinda intentionally manipulative and might explain why I constantly trip people up in these games

That's a revelation

[Roden]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

Spoiler:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

...I literally hard bussed my buddy to "save" Nancy. Before that, the elim was between two townies.

In any case, I'm inclined to stick to my current reads. Nancy shouldn't be today's elim over James.

[Roden]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

[Roden]

fire do you want to join this Roden wagon

im not sure if i trust you but i trust dann so sure

VOTE: Roden

hmm ok there's 4 other scum we can wagon a different one

VOTE: KittyTacky

Same issue with fire except he doesn't even give a reason for scum reading me.

[Roden]

Tbh Ari this is the most you've interacted with me in a game in almost a year, but IIRC it was just you telling me I wasted my IC role lol

[Roden]

Tbh Ari this is the most you've interacted with me in a game in almost a year, but IIRC it was just you telling me I wasted my IC role lol

the IC really is wasted on Roden

VOTE: t3

But town likes to claim scum and shit push me when I'm not confirmed inno

I think your playstyle is pretty divergent and fairly easy to read

Looked it up out of curiosity and, actually does this still apply for you?

[Roden]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

I was just chatting about the game in which you fakeclaimed Tracker, it's not why I scumread you.

Didn't claim that was your reason, I said you're trying to justify your scum read.

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

Unless I'm just wildly off base here, this reads as you downplaying how I played as scum in that game to better fit the narrative for why I'm getting scum read this game.

[Roden]

Despite the name, weren't a Jester in that game, but you were scum

[Roden]

Despite the name, weren't a Jester in that game, but you were scum

I’ve never played with you as scum and there’s no way in hell you don’t know this is my towngame.

You did. We were both on alts.

[Roden]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

I was just chatting about the game in which you fakeclaimed Tracker, it's not why I scumread you.

Didn't claim that was your reason, I said you're trying to justify your scum read.

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

Unless I'm just wildly off base here, this reads as you downplaying how I played as scum in that game to better fit the narrative for why I'm getting scum read this game.

No, and I don't follow that argument. I said why I scumread you: filler logs which looked pockety.

Still don't understand what you mean by pocket either.

[Roden]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

Okay, well, I think

KittyTacky

is more likely town than scum.

Posts 368, 373 are made by town and exhibit a towny mindset. Plus this registers in my mind as something

KittyTacky

would say. So yeah, he's out of the PoE for Day 1.

Vote Roden, he’s not town.

Are you still claiming that I'm lying about knowing your scum meta?

[Roden]

Spoiler:

Still don't understand what you mean by pocket either.

Bell: I sometimes feel like I play adjacent to some players (kinda irrelevant comment)
You: Yeah I totally get that.

You're not townreading Bell, but you're kind of affirming them. See what I mean?

No...? How the fuck does someone get pocketed by saying "I get that"?

[Roden]

Why the fuck is everyone telling me that it's scummy to be positive in any way but then lose your minds every game the moment I actually get annoyed or pissed off

Y'all are fucking insane

[Roden]

Loki if you continue to ignore me and pretend the game doesn't exist I'm just gonna alt out you and post the exact game I'm talking about

[Roden]

Roden

, please explain who is your biggest scumread right now and why.

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

[Roden]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88391

Here you go Loki

[Roden]

Is numberQ trying BBB's Gambit or something like it? I am probably wrong about the Gambit's name though.

can u explain wht the gambit ur thinking of is?

i dont know too much abt gambits

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 27s_Gambit

It's basically just reverse psychology. NumberQ isn't really doing this though, Dwlee is.

Wait is your pfp Santa from 999 or am i tripping?

Yep, it's Santa.

My original username choice was just going to be Santa since he's my favorite character from the game, but I didn't want to give off the impression that this was a roleplay account, so I just went with a name that alluded to him. You're the first person to recognize my pfp actually, so that's a nice little serotonin boost lol.

Leaked footage of me positively affirming Darby and HARD POCKETING him

[Roden]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88391

Here you go Loki

Thank you for proving my point. How am I even remotely playing similar here to this game? Where was my conviction in pretty much anything I posted? I jumped on wagons I didn’t even believe in ffs.

...I never said you were playing similarly. I said the exact opposite.

[Roden]

Are you reading

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

I said you were town in this post and explained how I got there

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

This all started because you didn't know I was in White Flag, and I was only bringing it up and linked it because of that. I never said your play was similar to that game, I was looking to see if there

were

any similarities and didn't see any.

[Roden]

exceedingly fine with a Greeting wagon

Roden, who are you town reading?

Bell
Dann
GL
Kitty
Loki

Bell and GL are more like town leans though

[Roden]

exceedingly fine with a Greeting wagon

Roden, who are you town reading?

Bell
Dann
GL
Kitty
Loki

Bell and GL are more like town leans though

Can you expand on Kitty and Bell?

Kitty kinda just does the exact same thing as either alignment every game, like making content but never feeling all that present, shrugging when he gets sus'd, and generally being an easy push. The way I try to read players like that is to try to understand their intentions, since I think it's harder to hide intention as scum when you're focused on making your town and scum play identical. I don't really see any attempts at obfuscating his thoughts, and he doesn't really seem to care about his wagon too much.

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

[Roden]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

[Roden]

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

I would kinda expect Bell to post more than he has so far tbh

in Shakespeare he posted a lot as scum and won the game off it

You expect town Bell or scum Bell to post more? Mentioning how he posted a lot as scum in Shakespeare is confusing me here.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Committing to a full reread tomorrow. Apologies for my absence, I’ve been without service and phone posting much of the weekend. I’m not longer hot on the Greeting wagon.

GL, I’m acknowledging your response to me and my initial reaction is disagreement on your reasons for townreading Roden. But I’ll give a more thorough response on reread.

Do you scum read me? I responded to your case on me and you didn't react. You never asked why I called you obvtown either.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

What caused this switch?

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

What caused this switch?

Also what caused you to join the first Done/Greeting wagon but avoid the second one?

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

What caused this switch?

Yeah I saw that. What made you decide on Kitty over me? There's no progression, you just switched over and had no response to the answer I gave you.

668

Also what caused you to join the first Done/Greeting wagon but avoid the second one?

547


I think the game would be significantly less aggravating for both of us if you actually read what I post instead of making me explain it to you again.

???

Wtf is this random lash out for

I just wanted to know if there was something more to it

[Roden]

Dann why does scum!Roden link my scumgame and town clear me for it? That’s not a wk, that’s actual evidence.

If Roden has played with you before than they know that doing that is the fastest way to get town read by you

Why does this only apply to me and not like, literally every single person who backed off the moment they realized who Loki was

UNVOTE:

Committing to a full reread tomorrow. Apologies for my absence, I’ve been without service and phone posting much of the weekend. I’m not longer hot on the Greeting wagon.

GL, I’m acknowledging your response to me and my initial reaction is disagreement on your reasons for townreading Roden. But I’ll give a more thorough response on reread.

Do you scum read me? I responded to your case on me and you didn't react. You never asked why I called you obvtown either.

Was your response that you were masking? I don't really have a response to that, it doesn't really change how I see your posting.

GL said one of the primary reasons he was town reading you had to do with your interactions with Loki and... It's clear you are familiar with Loki as a player and you handled Loki exactly how I would handle Loki as scum. That is, pretty much immediately come up with a justified town read on the slot after throwing some suspicion that way. I am not sure why GL thinks this is a point in your favor as #366 is the point when you really start playing the game and the very first thing you do is explain your town read on Loki, which is based on this justification about Loki avoiding looking like he's waffling as scum

which is fine! There's nothing inherently scummy about that read, but I don't ascribe it as towny. There's not a lot of progression here. It's a reaction test > immediately finding what you were looking for as towny. Things are rarely so simple when it comes to gathering reads and I'm not sure what GL sees here as towny.

Also in response to GL I don't see the furtive push being very indicative of much given there are 5 scum in the game. Roden doesn't need to be survivalist when there are 4 other people who can push an alternative.

so the answer to if I'm scum reading you? I've cooled off on my initial scum read but I also see no reason to town read you yet. I wanted to give you some space once you started posting but I haven't seen anything yet in your postings or progressions that make me think town. I realize that's a very unsatisfying answer but that's where I'm at.

You can explain why you think I'm obv town if you like, or why you thought that. I'm sort of not sure why you're waiting for someone to ask you about it rather than elaborating with your other reads or responding to the people pushing me.

My response was me showing that the things you were scum reading me for weren't scum indicative for me. You basically scum read me for something out of your own meta, so when I explained with examples how your case doesn't really apply to me it sticks out that you don't have anything to say about that.

Projecting your own scum game onto me again by theorizing how scum!me plays around town!Loki also just sorely sticks out because I feel like it's really clear that our playstyles aren't alike at all. You very much seem to like having attention on you no matter your alignment, but I don't. I know I'm already a pretty easy elim as town and actively seeking aggression as scum is just a dumb move for me, I'd just throw out town reads to pacify and avoid heat if I were scum because I know that's all I really need to do to survive D1.

I was waiting to see if you would naturally ask about my read on you because it would strengthen why I think you're obvtown. I think you have a very self-centered view on the game and how you think people would/should play. I also think you have enough confidence as town to pursue anyone who you think might be trying to pocket you, and since I did town read you early without explaining it I expected that would ping you in some way but it never really did. I don't think that alone is AI but it vibes in a way that makes me think you're playing around me weird.

[Roden]

Dann would I be incorrect in saying that you secretly want me dead today but don't think there's enough momentum to get it done

Because I'm really getting that feeling even though my name has been brought up as a possible elim choice a few times today

[Roden]

VOTE: Vivax

I don't trust the Kitty wagon.

[Roden]

E-1 btw.

[Roden]

I...don't know why I'm alive. That was one of my worst Day 1's in awhile, I expected to get thrown in the pit for an easy scum point.

I understand Kitty flipped red but I genuinely don't know why he got flipped at all. Every time I've seem scum!Kitty, he fights hard to live and gets hard protected by his allies, with all the pressure on him and no real defense I thought he was just town LHF again. There's no way he wasn't bussed, because I still don't think he did anything particularly scummy for people to want him out as badly as everyone did.

[Roden]

Kuti vs Dann is also just ???

Unless scum are desperate to tie up the score, I don't see how Dann is ever scum here

[Roden]

Roden, if you're town and Dann is never scum here, why do you think mafia put mafia!kuti against town!Dann instead of you

Kuti is an odd choice, my only guess is that mafia needs Dann dead and that they think they can send me up against pretty much anyone and score. A dead influential townie now and a free point later isn't the worst strat in hindsight.

[Roden]

I dunno I need to sleep on it and really articulate it but I have this knawing fear that Dann is the deep wolf and furtive/Vivax/fire/Loki/Ari is basically the town bloc and Rat and Roden are trying to go for this "the simple explanation is correct kuti is kafia" tack with like NO apparent doubt that Dann might be scum, to try to get it back to even. Why would mafia be ok with risking going down 2-0, at that point town could fluke into a win on any of the last three tests it's such a dangerous position. If I were mafia and down 1-0 I'd be putting forward what I thought was one of our best chances to win a point

It sure is fun getting accused of being bad level zero scum every single game

[Roden]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

Vivax is the obvious one. It worries me greatly that my top scumread from D1 has arrived at the same conclusion, but with so many scum it seems a bit farfetched that BOTH leading wagons were on scum. Plus if kuti IS scum it actually makes Vivax look significantly better.

And then I also have a growing paranoia that GL could be deepwolfing here, but that isn't really substantiated by anything yet. I just find it very strange that no one has really expressed suspicion on him. Like, you'd think at least one or two scum would be trying to sow doubt on a true obvtown. And then if Dannflor flips green.... Not a great look.


But without flips I can't really draw proper conclusions here. Kitty's flip is... Spectacularly uninformative, which is why there may have been merit to scum sacrificing him. This pair is going to be much juicier though

There've been a few slots that haven't had much suspicion on them, not just GL. Why him in particular?

[Roden]

I'm kinda just waiting for Rat to respond

[Roden]

Wait, what am I responding to?

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

Vivax is the obvious one. It worries me greatly that my top scumread from D1 has arrived at the same conclusion, but with so many scum it seems a bit farfetched that BOTH leading wagons were on scum. Plus if kuti IS scum it actually makes Vivax look significantly better.

And then I also have a growing paranoia that GL could be deepwolfing here, but that isn't really substantiated by anything yet. I just find it very strange that no one has really expressed suspicion on him. Like, you'd think at least one or two scum would be trying to sow doubt on a true obvtown. And then if Dannflor flips green.... Not a great look.


But without flips I can't really draw proper conclusions here. Kitty's flip is... Spectacularly uninformative, which is why there may have been merit to scum sacrificing him. This pair is going to be much juicier though

There've been a few slots that haven't had much suspicion on them, not just GL. Why him in particular?

[Roden]

VOTE: kutiplz

[Roden]

VOTE: kutiplz

do you have any thoughts on anything that's been discussed lately?

Yeah, I've been keeping up. I think you're right about Dann and Kuti.

Just in case Datisi comes by I must deny him a page top.
I think Datisi lives in one of those lesser countries.

I don't think he lives in America?

[Roden]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

[Roden]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put him to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

Nah and that's not even close to what I said.

I'm just pissed and annoyed that I'm the fucking fall guy every time a single vote goes wrong. And I'm even more annoyed that I won't be able to defend myself the moment I inevitably get put up. Like at this point I don't see the point in trying because no one ever listens to me.

[Roden]

GG, and thanks for modding.

Ari was definitely the MVP for the scum team, I feel like she made some miracles happen. I wish I'd done more than just create WIFOM, but it turned out ok in the end.

Vivax was probably the biggest underdog this game though: he went from being an easy test choice, to getting locked in as town and having pretty good reads.

[Roden]

Also, yeah I agree that the setup was fun. I knew WIFOM would play a part in the tests but it ended being a much bigger factor than I expected. I think this setup becomes terrifying if it's a game full of power wolves.