Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Alisae]

I have a ~spicy scumread~ I will not be discussing at this point in time. But it exist, just so you know. I will give towncred if anyone can get there before me.

No one wins the prize.

VOTE: Dannflor

Tell me about it

[Charloux]

I have a ~spicy scumread~ I will not be discussing at this point in time. But it exist, just so you know. I will give towncred if anyone can get there before me.

No one wins the prize.

VOTE: Dannflor

*grabs popcorn*
Haven't seen anything in Dann's iso with a lot of "oomph" factor, so you voting for him over existing wagons got my attention.
Don't leave us hanging too long!

[Alisae]

Dann why am I scummy to u

[PenguinPower]

i don't fact check and if it becomes relevant and/or important i'll go fact check

sure sure - you just make up what you want to support your stance. I got it.

I'll leave it here since this has stopped being fun.

[Frozen Angel]

please tolerate me as I will catch up from page 22

I get your concerns but can't town do that stuff as well?

I should be in bed but I am not so I answer. the back track specially felt unnatural. the vote felt a sudden stance change and felt fabricated. the whole agenda seems with extra intentions - I mean with another intention than solving because you cant see how he gets there. a wagon is formed he is against it and pushes hard against it and then suddenly finds a very small excuse and jumps on the wagon himself and before anything deep or meaningful happens jumps off it for no reason.

so I'm concerned for the progress he made with his mindset and I think its worth investigating

i hate to bring up this point

actually no i don't

do you think i don't know how to fake basic progressions as scum?

Well for Its not about basic progressions. It's about mindset disconnection. you say you believe A and in the process of game you suddenly decide to be anti A. when its not scum motivated on its own, it gives opportunistic vibes all over.

like, "can't see how i got there" is a very dumb point because it's very obvious how i got there and i in fact spelled it out prior to voting charloux

> find norwee sus (ftr, he was feeling underwhelming)
> alisae offers an explanation why norwee is sus that i can vibe with
> wanna vote someone else
> the only suspicion i have on someone currently (that i feel will be beneficial by me voting there) is charloux, as i could see clear scum-motivation in voting bear there and his thoughts didn't make sense internally
> time passes, he explains more stuff about mech, admits the vote was a tilt vote, okay yeh i can buy that, i don't find him scummy anymore, unvote

like literally nothing about this is difficult to understand, you can claim you don't *buy* my progression if you want, but framing as if i didn't explain it is lol

also like, your points about me pushing against the wagon, then voting there, then unvoting - you obviously find that scummy. WHY is that scummy? what is the scum motivation behind doing that? obviously an answer is "fake solving", but you're framing it as if there's something *more* there and i don't get it

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

You're completely changing what I said here in a very weird way actually.

I said I found your resistance on the wagon against the votes on charleux and the sudden surrender to push the same target for another reason that you suddenly brought up suggested a mind set disconnect.

"the only suspicion i have on someone currently (that i feel will be beneficial by me voting there) is charloux" this is the part that I felt didn't blend in with rest of your posts there and its not about the progression you had to find charleux scummy. Its about how you felt the need to vote someone and you decided to push the same target that others were pushing for other reasons with what sounded like an "excuse" and a bit of an overreaction at the time for scum reading that slot. simply put, I feel like you just wanted to throw a vote and blend in to gain support.

who were those few people that told you that and when they did so that "stopped you from voting me" as you claim it

[catboi]

I kind of expect this to not be that convincing to most people, but if there was a player here whose play I would most accurately describe as 'going through the motions', it's Dannflor. It felt like prior to the point I posted 724, he was making posts to give the appearance of doing things, but it wasn't really building to anything useful, just the occasional stray read or question, nothing showing any depth of thought, pretty trivial to fake. Since his v/la ended he's dropped a few walls, but the thig I have to question is

why

he chose to write thosee walls - it's three towncases on Datisi, SCRDBEAR, and fire. And while I think those are

fine

reads to have I question why Dann feels the need to post about those reads in particular - I think SCRD and fire in particular are close to consensus townreads and no one actually needs to read anything. The Datisi one is at least more relevant in the fact that several people are scumreading Datisi so I

could

see town making that defense but the placement of it in the rest of his body of work still feels unnatural to me - it feels more broadly like he's positioning himself to be 'correct' on Datisi rather than doing anything else.

It doesn't really feel like he has scumreads he actually cares about. The thing is, I feel like by his questioning, he should be skeptical of me, and he placed me as a scumlean in his reads list, but he also seems to have latched on to my kittytacky scumread way too easily. And I don't believe that town, who is suspicious of a players, sees that player scumcasing someone and decides they're okay with the case. I'd expect him to show a little more skepticism if he was actually suspicious of me. I've noticed that when I'm wrong on a scumread Day 1 scum pretty frequently latch on to my push and the way he progressed from defending kittytacky to starting to agree with me felt unnatural - like he wanted to be able to push the wagon but not look opportunistic in doing so. By comparison, look at how much he's putting out on his towncases versus his scumreads - 854 and 856 are effusive. 901 is pretty empty by comparison, and the reasons are all pretty generic. It doesn't really feel like a read he actually believes in. In my experience, while it's reasonably easy for scum players to fake believable sounding townreads - because after all, they know who is town and will always be correct in their reasoning - it's a lot harder for even good scum players to fake believable scumreads. They don't actually have that internal thought process, the drive to find scum, and in general townies are much more inventive with how they try to find reads while scum just repeat cliches. And that's what dann's scumreads feel like to me.

There's other stuff too but it's related to hood stuff so I don't know how persuasive it would be - his posts in there felt pockety in that he was townreading people rather early for rather simplistic things and it felt more like he was trying to get in their good graces than actually sort them. It's also a case where Datisi and S_S are practically trying to rip each other's throats out, mastina at least suspects s_s, and Dann has just been kind of...there, and it feels like he's more trying to stay out of the fray with how he's been acting. Again, obviously I can't show you this stuff so I don't expect it to be convincing, but I think it's important that people know it's there. Do I actually think this game yeets Dann Day 1? Probably not, but he's probably the player I feel is most likely to be scum right now.

[Dannflor]

Dann why am I scummy to u

I don't get the sense you actually want anything. Maybe you will correct me, but my memory of you as a player is someone who tries pretty hard to get what they want. I feel like you're floating somewhat aimlessly, going through the Alisae motions but at the same time being pretty content with the gamestate and not rocking the boat too much?

Like I don't understand why you dropped your push on Val. I feel like you just realized there wasn't much traction there, despite you having a massive reaction to Val, and then dropped it. I'd expect you to still be calling for Val's head? Your massive reaction to Val feels fake because there's just no follow through. or at least, there's not the follow through I would expect on a strong OMGUS scum read

I feel similarly about you yelling at Bell

it feels like all bark and no bite

I also feel like your soft defenses of players like Datisi haven't really been that motivated? like I'm just not seeing the genuine conviction here. I don't really believe you want datisi not to be pushed or you really think datisi is town

I dunno. Datisi's rebuttal in our PT was that he expected you to have more of an agenda and be trying to Get Shit Done as scum but I feel like you also like to Get Shit Done as town so something feels wrong here

[Dannflor]

that's a pretty good scum read

[PenguinPower]

dann...

[Dannflor]

The Datisi one is at least more relevant in the fact that several people are scumreading Datisi so I could see town making that defense but the placement of it in the rest of his body of work still feels unnatural to me - it feels more broadly like he's positioning himself to be 'correct' on Datisi rather than doing anything else.

can you elaborate on this? what exactly is unnatural about it? why am I positioning myself to be "correct" on datisi vs someone like alisae. I feel like if that were the case I would've been largely defending datisi from the beginning?

those posts came about because I finished reading at 2 am and decide my time was best spent putting the reads I felt strongest about into words

it's true that I don't have any confident scum reads. my most confident is marashu and I feel mostly just ok about that.

KittyTacky I never town read

I was hesitant and am still hesitant about their wagon. they feel like the type of player that is going to get run up pretty easily no matter what, so I was surprised they were your most confident scum read

KittyTacky occupies a space of... I would not be surprised at all if they flipped scum and they are overtly scummy, but that I have a hard time telling whether that scumminess is just a facet of their personality or not. and so I feel there are bigger and better fish to fry

[Frozen Angel]

the whole agenda seems with extra intentions

what is my agenda here. or was, i guess.

to sound vocal, lead, blend in and gain support. You need to change vote and drop it on a hot target, even if it was the one you were vocaly in support of and against wagoning earlier so you made the 180.

It can be from town too sure, but its more scum indicative and my best lead after charleux. so I decided to vote you for now till I find something more conclusive on you or others

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

in my previous game with FA i felt like she was kinda right for the wrong reasons a lot, or at least her reasons were explained in a messy way

like i argued with her logic the whole game bc i felt it was wrong but then her reads ended up being correct

in this case i would say that i agree with her that your progression there feels a little off, but i thought it was more on the side of overexplained/overtelegraphed rather than underexplained

and like your defense after jumping on that with like "actually it was explained perfectly already here let me show you" does kinda fit with that so

in general people need to stop calling my reasoning "wrong" if they don't wanna spend time to decipher and analyze what I say and think the way I'm suggesting when reading my reasons as it's not the traditional scum hunting
of labeling actions towny or scummy but rather its about the pattern of actions and how the pattern comes from which mind set more likely

and I never said he underexplained. I do think and agree he over explained a bit. I feel he wanted the scum read more than he had the scumread based on the progression.

like going from 363, asking him a question and implying you find him suspicious for his actions, to 372 where you vote and reference that prior post, to 469 where you say "i already spelled out exactly why i voted you and what i want from you", to 476 where you think his answer is fine and back off

it just kinda feels like you had the whole trajectory planned in advance?

what exactly did you see in 472 that changed your mind? and throwing in the comments in 476 about agreeing with stuff others said about him being town and that you don't want to push a mech point just feels kinda weird bc why did that only now come into play? its like overexplained. idk why you felt the need to bring that stuff up, bc if it was important to your read, then why didn't it matter earlier?

Thanks. yeap that

60% pressure,

10% legit vote

, 30% not wanting to vote norwee anymore but not liking when my vote isn't active

so you yourself believe you made excuses to push that slot, but now you're basically saying there were no other strong leads to pursue there and you went there to make sure the vote is active and put pressure on slot (by 90%) yet you were alarmed when I said I think that the vote was not legit and based on your true read. why?

Ok nvm it’s unanimous.
Our 4th member is Shiro.

Shiro town by proxy of Norwee and Alisae being scum and therefore unlikely to have three scum in one clan.

[Frozen Angel]

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

so you're being sarcastic or... and if yes why you vote. huh?

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

why does this feel sarcastic im confused

yeah fire is actively analysing things and saying stuff out of my mouth as I'm catching up consistently. feeling good

Every game lately is like this. I try play in a way that makes me have fun and also can solve at the same time. But i always end up feeling annoyed. I didn’t even really want to sign up to this in the first place. But now i’m here and just as expected i’m first wagon. All i can do is grit my teeth and bear it. I don’t even know why i manage to continue despite feeling miserable. It’s some kind of strange stubborness that never let’s up.

i'm not really sure what you're intending to accomplish with this beyond dragging the thread mood down

this post was absolutely unnecessary. If it was genuine from them, you're just trying to annoy them and if not, you're not analysing it and instead making it even more dramatic in a sense. Dealing with ATE demands a clear heard not more wood in the fire and I find it impulsive in a sense

It's not like people are going to let mastina influence their actions or read her posts.

didnt bell vote norwee explicitly because of mastina's read? i don't think this is necessarily true

Bell voted Norwee because mastina told Bell they have like some made up number of what, 98.something% that's wrong? From what I read it doesn't look like the read itself influenced Bell but rather mastina's confidence.

When I think of the read influencing someone reading, I think of how Kitty voted Norwee, whom literally said that the case, aka the explanation of the read, caused them to vote Norwee.

But I mean ya at the end of the day they did influence 2 people to vote but when she is going to need to rally a total of 11 villagers if she wants to vote out a scum!Norwee that is aligned with me. 3 out of 2, kinda small, ngl.
Now, that's not taking into consideration what our alignment ACTUALLY is. Maybe mastina will get her wagon because scum will seize the moment to try to get a town!norwee killed. In a way that's less villagers required for her to kill a villager, so that makes her attempt at killing Norwee easier ig.

This post is wierding me out talking about how wagons can off someone and numbers and all that. why not focusing on the votes and reasonings and instead on the ability of players to rally others against another player?

i've had bad experiences with high emotion over stuff like this and i didn't want a repeat

maybe i could've phrased it better but i'm tired sue me

I feel honesty here and it explains the impulsiveness I mentioned earlier

[Alisae]

I don't get the sense you actually want anything. Maybe you will correct me, but my memory of you as a player is someone who tries pretty hard to get what they want. I feel like you're floating somewhat aimlessly, going through the Alisae motions but at the same time being pretty content with the gamestate and not rocking the boat too much?

Like I don't understand why you dropped your push on Val. I feel like you just realized there wasn't much traction there, despite you having a massive reaction to Val, and then dropped it. I'd expect you to still be calling for Val's head? Your massive reaction to Val feels fake because there's just no follow through. or at least, there's not the follow through I would expect on a strong OMGUS scum read

I feel similarly about you yelling at Bell

it feels like all bark and no bite

I also feel like your soft defenses of players like Datisi haven't really been that motivated? like I'm just not seeing the genuine conviction here. I don't really believe you want datisi not to be pushed or you really think datisi is town

Line by line
- I am going to direct you to 500. Your ideal of me was reality in maybe say, the pine v ali game, but when I was playing in 2021 my game had evolved into what's described in the post. I have things I want but pushing and being loud about it is just wasting post and not really all that productive right now? Like I don't think it does anything. Really my ideal vision of playing the game is to sit back and observe the game play around me while also doing my own hunting.

- The Val read changed. I don't think pushing Val is really all that productive, would rather just hunt and look at other things. My fos on Val remained and not much happened from him inbetween me voting him and shiro entering the hood. Either way there's just nothing to really push if that makes sense? I can't really engage with the townreads on val because I feel like those players were able to form that read because they know Val. The night before Val appeals to Shiro in a way that seemed townie and during catch-up Shiro pointed this out when I asked him about Val. I felt as if he made a valid point and I don't see why a scum!Val would appeal to a person that he has no guarantee on if they will actually play or not? I mean it's Shiro, I've seen him flake and/or hyperlurk and not able to play so many games cuz life and that's fine. He probably doesn't know that though. He COULD be scum with Shiro but is the move for scum!Shiro to literally get us to stop fighting and unite the clan? Because that's actually what I felt like he did and I felt like both parties (me and val) gave it our best effort to try to work it out. Who knows maybe Bell Mastina and Kitty are all town and Shiro and Val are pullin wool over my eyes but like why are we doing this instead of having scum!shiro push for my and norwee's elim with Val? I'm happy calling them town for now and focusing on what the 4 of us want to focus on.

- I'm not going to drop what I am doing to go vanity vote Bell and revive that why would I do that? If anything, what you haven't seen, is the discussion that's happening in wind clan, where we're talking about how we really want mastina to post and how we all fos Bell. I'll legit vote anything in {mastina, bell, Kitty}.

- I'm more mellow than the ideal of me you have in ur head.

- Datisi I never felt like was in any real danger of being eliminated? I am letting you do your thing because you're the one that's having trouble reading them.

[Frozen Angel]

catboi defense of norwee's ATE and staying focused on just the ATE and meta with clear reasoning feels genuine.

i would argue that actually makes it worse? norwee's reasoning feels really thin to me - it's there but it doesn't really feel like it was a genuine thought and not just an after the fact justification, and i feel like scum would go to more effort to at least look like there's some solving happening

so i think a follow with thin reasoning is worse than one without reasoning

I don't know the thing is I've played a bunch with norwee so I don't necessarily expect deep reasoning from him, at least early on. I have almost definitely mis-elimmed him for reasons similar to this.

I don't think this is a fake progression, so at the very least makes me wanna listen to their norwee read, even if it might be from a scum in defense of a town who made ATE. but I lean town there too

Has Shiro done anything in the PT?

why no comment about the active population?

---

reading mastina's post about alisae and in page 26, I can see that she is really thinking about what is she saying, even if not all is directly about the game itself. I like her cross referencing and can follow what is she saying/conclusions she is making. she is giving me a headache but I think she is solving and not faking it on first impressions. and I hate her linked reads and partially not explained read drops.

---

I need to Iso and recheck how kittytacky wagon formed cause Im not sure why its getting momentum at this time when they are not present themself

[Marashu]

@marashu @kitty what are your reads on each other and what do you think about the cases on each other?

Kinda underwhelming. No strong feelings on the slot itself, but I'm really not liking that wagon. As for the case, I dunno, it feels superficial; a lot of thought (or at least more thought from my point of view) seems to be going into sorting other slots. I'm not sure what I should be expecting here for either town!Kitty or scum!Kitty, but I could see an agenda on this wagon.

I'll need to go back to confirm this, but I think I remember this wagon starting to pick up steam right around when Norwee's wagon was filling up.

[Marashu]

As an aside, I finished the first Warrior Cats book. The library "has" a copy of the 2nd book, but it's on loan and was due to be returned back in May, so I don't think I'll be getting a copy through the library any time soon...

[Mistyx]

As an aside, I finished the first Warrior Cats book. The library "has" a copy of the 2nd book, but it's on loan and was due to be returned back in May, so I don't think I'll be getting a copy through the library any time soon...

oooh what'd you think

[Mistyx]

@marashu @kitty what are your reads on each other and what do you think about the cases on each other?

Kinda underwhelming. No strong feelings on the slot itself, but I'm really not liking that wagon. As for the case, I dunno, it feels superficial; a lot of thought (or at least more thought from my point of view) seems to be going into sorting other slots. I'm not sure what I should be expecting here for either town!Kitty or scum!Kitty, but I could see an agenda on this wagon.

I'll need to go back to confirm this, but I think I remember this wagon starting to pick up steam right around when Norwee's wagon was filling up.

fwiw i think this is a solid insight and it's making your slot trend up for me

where do you think thread attention should be focused right now? who do you think is most important to sort, and why?

[Frozen Angel]

ISO of kitty tacky I can see why the slot is scum read and I share the notion

The Charloux slip case makes sense so far but I'll keep reading. FOS: Charloux

the fos seems too vanilla and opportunistic and then on same post made jump on char wagon when they saw the titus vote for some reason? if you think it was a scum slip then you would vote right at start what was about the titus vote significant there?

them they are convinced by case on norwee and jumps on next popular wagon

---- so kitty votes at this point:
[4] KittyTacky: catboi, Cephrir, fireisredsir, Datisi
----

This wagon was legit when created and I can see the real push on it for solving in general

I wont go further in kitty iso yet as I wanna read rest of game as a whole and not iso first.

[Alisae]

This post is wierding me out talking about how wagons can off someone and numbers and all that. why not focusing on the votes and reasonings and instead on the ability of players to rally others against another player?

Partially because I'm demonstrating what a scum thought process from me would look like?
-Bell's "reasoning" for voting Norwee is that mastina had a 97.something% read. It looked like the reasoning for the vote was that they were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.
-Kitty's "reasoning" for voting Norwee was they supposedly looked at mastina's case and went "yep, this is what I want to do." They were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.

FA the quote chain is a line that was snipped out of context.

If we were scum together I would probably just tell Norwee in a private topic to just not engage, just makes more sense not to. It's not like people are going to let mastina influence their actions or read her posts. Engaging doesn't do anything, if anything, probably makes mastina look more credible, and wastes posts.

It probably reads weirdly because the post was written about me speculating about what me and norwee would do as scum.

I'm saying that maybe mastina's Norwee push is the kind of thing I feel like scum would jump to like dogs to a bone and that's what ended up happening with the 2 players I mentioned? I'm basically saying that's what is happening if she is town. Mastina is the best flip in the game from my pov.

[Datisi]

so you yourself believe you made excuses to push that slot, but now you're basically saying there were no other strong leads to pursue there and you went there to make sure the vote is active and put pressure on slot (by 90%) yet you were alarmed when I said I think that the vote was not legit and based on your true read. why?

because it still was in part a legit read and denying that as being legit is incorrect?

also s_s said he knows you, but he said it in the hood so

[Frozen Angel]

This post is wierding me out talking about how wagons can off someone and numbers and all that. why not focusing on the votes and reasonings and instead on the ability of players to rally others against another player?

Partially because I'm demonstrating what a scum thought process from me would look like?
-Bell's "reasoning" for voting Norwee is that mastina had a 97.something% read. It looked like the reasoning for the vote was that they were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.
-Kitty's "reasoning" for voting Norwee was they supposedly looked at mastina's case and went "yep, this is what I want to do." They were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.

FA the quote chain is a line that was snipped out of context.

If we were scum together I would probably just tell Norwee in a private topic to just not engage, just makes more sense not to. It's not like people are going to let mastina influence their actions or read her posts. Engaging doesn't do anything, if anything, probably makes mastina look more credible, and wastes posts.

It probably reads weirdly because the post was written about me speculating about what me and norwee would do as scum.

I'm saying that maybe mastina's Norwee push is the kind of thing I feel like scum would jump to like dogs to a bone and that's what ended up happening with the 2 players I mentioned? I'm basically saying that's what is happening if she is town. Mastina is the best flip in the game from my pov.

that makes more sense now.

Its so hard to catch up to this amount of text as I've been away for 48 hours and I barely remember anything from before so I'm skimming a lot of text to get a gist of game state and analyse what I see so sorry for not finding the anchor of that post on first sight.

regardless, mastina is being so lazy with properly casing some of her reads but the ones she is explaining shows she is actually thinking about details. she also explained in some short words her meta take on norwee even without examples so I find her analytical at that stage of game and it keep repeating about different reads of her at that point that makes me wonder if it can be fakable by scum mastina that consistently.

I was more suspicious of bells jumping in on it than mastina herself when you know that's just not the way it works. they even sounded sarcastic there and it felt like they jumpying to mock or out of some sort of ego? I cant explain this properly I think but it felt like bell saw the mastina post and went like "yeah why not, gotta push someone anyway so let mastina take the blame for it." kinda vote

[Dannflor]

Catboi keeps asking questions that I don't believe he actually cares about the answer to. 606 is like a fun sounding rebuttal and looks surface-level curious but I don't think a townie actually looks at Mistyx's post and asks themselves that question. I think it's fairly obvious what Mistyx was trying to accomplish. I find still find his response to fireisredsir in 825 skeevy. I don't think you tend to talk to someone like that unless you know they are town. I think

even if you are townreading

that person, you still interrogate that process because that is the point I would consider maybe someone slipped up. Catboi claims he did interrogate fire but the tone and phrasing of the question, again, does not make me believe catboi is actually interested in an answer. I don't know what catboi hoped to gain from asking me if I felt Marashu was the best vote in 900. It feels like a good productive question but I feel a townie goes the extra step of realizing, hey, Dannflor is voting Marashu, what other answer is he going to give but "yes."

The other major problem is that I feel like his pushes are inorganic. 352 looks like its designed to showcase that catboi is continually thinking about the game and rereading. I don't see a believable thorough line here as to why he went back to this post. My vision might be colored a little bit here because I've been nurturing the theory that catboi/Marashu is S/S for some time now, but it really reads to me like catboi made that push because he realized he hadn't interacted with Marashu well enough yet / his interactions with Marashu were bad. And again, I don't feel like catboi is looking for anything in particular from Marashu. He doesn't wait for a response before moving on. I don't think catboi

got

anything out of that.

My first reaction to the KittyTacky push was that I did not expect town!catboi to jump on KittyTacky so aggressively. I still don't think the case for KittyTacky scum is very strong. I realize this is contradictory as I wouldn't really be surprised if KittyTacky flipped scum. But my scum read there is more lazy than anything else. I don't feel passionate about it. I don't think there's really a good reason yet to feel passionate about it. I think KittyTacky's 583 is surface level scummy, but the hop onto the Norwee wagon would give me pause. I would expect "newbscum" to be a lot more self conscious about votes that don't have personal reasons attached. The underexplaining of the vote makes me reconsider. It feels like a very easy thing to jump on and I just... am surprised catboi felt more passionate about that than anything else in the game. I expect prodding at that or even voting it. I don't really expect the aggression catboi displayed. It feels like the exact type of thing I would jump on as scum because whew it's so easy and so

obviously

scummy.

I feel like catboi has been the one holding our PT at arms length the most. I feel like I'm ripping this straight from catboi's post, but he feels so supremely "just there." He's been doing some mediation between Datisi and S_S which feels so unnecessary and LAMIST. The thread health of our neighborhood isn't a big enough issue, Datisi and S_S weren't even getting heated. It felt like doing catboi was doing something because he knew it looked towny not because he actually thought it was going to help the game. Like, I also thought their spat in our hood was making it very obvious they were both town, but I did not want to stop it because it felt very very revealing the more they got down into it. I also just think before then catboi has had a disturbing lack of reactions to anything happening in the hood. Mastina had a huge entrance. Datisi had a big emotional reaction at the start of the hood. Catboi has been deliberate in not giving early reads on either me or Datisi, and for some time I gave catboi the benefit of the doubt that he was just in information gathering phase. But I don't really get the sense that catboi has been like, genuinely responding to these events, even in a very delayed fashion.

Now, catboi is accusing me of the same thing which... I think is accurate to an extent. I have pretty deliberately been on observation mode so far this game. Partially for lack of time and partially because I haven't felt very confident on any scum reads yet. I don't get the sense that catboi is lacking either confidence in his pushes or that he's deliberately being more passive. For some reason his hood presence is just way less than his main thread presence.

Catboi outing his read on me has given me some pause. It's probably the first push I like in the sense that I wouldn't consider it on an easy target. It does show some thinking about the game behind the scenes. I'm not too surprised by it. I had a feeling the spicy scum read was me. I think I'm probably still firmly within my scum range.

however, I
1) don't like the way catboi outed the read. the leadup to it > to outing it when I outed my scum read of catboi feels overly performative. catboi hasn't really trying to poke or prod me at all outside of me beginning interactions with him. that's not what I would expect from someone who has been nursing a genuine scum read on me for a majority of the game.

2) don't like the way catboi seems to not actually want me dead. continues to feel performative. I think if catboi genuinely scum read me to the strength he claims, he would campaign for my elimination. and he should. He is already undercutting himself by saying he doesn't think I will get eliminated D1. I have been eliminated D1 as scum before. I don't think catboi is someone to get hungup on player charisma or popularity or whatever. I think if catboi had a strong scum read on Datisi, he would do his best to make that elimination happen. I don't think it's any different for me. as such, this push feels more about discrediting me and looking town then actually either sorting me or trying to kill me

[Alisae]

Its so hard to catch up to this amount of text as I've been away for 48 hours and I barely remember anything from before so I'm skimming a lot of text to get a gist of game state and analyse what I see so sorry for not finding the anchor of that post on first sight.

A neat trick you can do is
- Remember what post you left off on
- right click warrior cats mafia copy link address
- past link address in and add &ppp=200 at the end of the url

If I explained it correctly, that should increase the page count from 25 to 200 post per page. It doesn't change the fact you have to read less posts but at least you are loading less pages.

[Dannflor]

I don't get the sense you actually want anything. Maybe you will correct me, but my memory of you as a player is someone who tries pretty hard to get what they want. I feel like you're floating somewhat aimlessly, going through the Alisae motions but at the same time being pretty content with the gamestate and not rocking the boat too much?

Like I don't understand why you dropped your push on Val. I feel like you just realized there wasn't much traction there, despite you having a massive reaction to Val, and then dropped it. I'd expect you to still be calling for Val's head? Your massive reaction to Val feels fake because there's just no follow through. or at least, there's not the follow through I would expect on a strong OMGUS scum read

I feel similarly about you yelling at Bell

it feels like all bark and no bite

I also feel like your soft defenses of players like Datisi haven't really been that motivated? like I'm just not seeing the genuine conviction here. I don't really believe you want datisi not to be pushed or you really think datisi is town

Line by line
- I am going to direct you to 500. Your ideal of me was reality in maybe say, the pine v ali game, but when I was playing in 2021 my game had evolved into what's described in the post. I have things I want but pushing and being loud about it is just wasting post and not really all that productive right now? Like I don't think it does anything. Really my ideal vision of playing the game is to sit back and observe the game play around me while also doing my own hunting.

- The Val read changed. I don't think pushing Val is really all that productive, would rather just hunt and look at other things. My fos on Val remained and not much happened from him inbetween me voting him and shiro entering the hood. Either way there's just nothing to really push if that makes sense? I can't really engage with the townreads on val because I feel like those players were able to form that read because they know Val. The night before Val appeals to Shiro in a way that seemed townie and during catch-up Shiro pointed this out when I asked him about Val. I felt as if he made a valid point and I don't see why a scum!Val would appeal to a person that he has no guarantee on if they will actually play or not? I mean it's Shiro, I've seen him flake and/or hyperlurk and not able to play so many games cuz life and that's fine. He probably doesn't know that though. He COULD be scum with Shiro but is the move for scum!Shiro to literally get us to stop fighting and unite the clan? Because that's actually what I felt like he did and I felt like both parties (me and val) gave it our best effort to try to work it out. Who knows maybe Bell Mastina and Kitty are all town and Shiro and Val are pullin wool over my eyes but like why are we doing this instead of having scum!shiro push for my and norwee's elim with Val? I'm happy calling them town for now and focusing on what the 4 of us want to focus on.

- I'm not going to drop what I am doing to go vanity vote Bell and revive that why would I do that? If anything, what you haven't seen, is the discussion that's happening in wind clan, where we're talking about how we really want mastina to post and how we all fos Bell. I'll legit vote anything in {mastina, bell, Kitty}.

- I'm more mellow than the ideal of me you have in ur head.

- Datisi I never felt like was in any real danger of being eliminated? I am letting you do your thing because you're the one that's having trouble reading them.

ok thanks. my primary point of reference is alisae v pine and that might be tripping me up.

do you genuinely scum read mastina or do you just believe eliminating her is pro town